If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?

The reality of all these HG matchmaking post is that it comes down to one thing, not enough people queueing to provide a quality matchmaking experience. You alluded to that already in your post, so I’m not trying to educate you on that. In my opinion the lowest hanging fruit here is cheating. I know that cheating is the thing most likely to deter me from queueing, or to end my session early. Does that mean that cheating is the only thing that causes low participation in hourglass? No. But I think it’s the biggest factor. Sure, a lot of people don’t like pvp and won’t participate, big deal, that’s normal, let’s focus on those of us that do like HG. Hopefully this anticheat bans cheaters so hard that they have to get a life. That in itself would be a massive improvement to HG and the game overall. Hopefully it coincides with the introduction of PS5 players so that hourglass can get a fresh start with those players, and potentially maintain a more healthy HG experience.

With all that said, my queue on NA is quick, but indeed the pool of players participating isn’t very large, so mismatches happen frequently. I for one enjoy fighting players much better than me, there’s no better way to improve. I think a lot of people don’t see it that way because all they care about is getting the curse as quickly as possible.

@eva1977 said in If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?:

This is a great idea as the one reason any player might not like pvp is because they lose, if they were winnning why wouldn't they like it?
The reality is that the experiences in PVP are more like getting stomped on half of the time and the players love rubbing it in.
So who in their right mind wants to experience that?
I've seen videos of top tier players messing with low skilled pvp players and yeah for them it's super fun and they make their videos to gain views, etc.

But as much as players practice not everyone can be at their level and before anyone says this is what the game is about then why do you get those top tier players complaining the very same way low level players complain whenever they go up against somebody that has the ability to stomp on them?

Becuase it's common sense that losing is ok but being obliterated constantly is not fun for anyone and this is very common in SOT.

So AI in PVP as an option sort of like safer seas would be a good thing, otherwise a lot of the PS5 players will probably try out HG for a couple of matches and after experiencing humiliating loses will never return.

I won’t pretend to know what your experience has been in HG, but mine has been far less toxic than regular adventure mode. The most I usually hear in HG, if anything, is gg. I think if a player doesn’t want to participate in HG because of players “rubbing it in”, then they probably want to play the main game even less? I have 200 in guardians and about 250 in servants, and yea, players in HG are significantly less toxic in my experience. I attribute that to there not being a lot of loot on the line. When pirates get attacked with loot on board the emotions tend to fly.

AI as a PvP alternative, in my opinion, is a wretched idea. First of all in what game is AI challenging? Sure, they could probably make them really difficult, but if they did that then wouldn’t these HG victims lose all the same? And if they didn’t make the AI extremely difficult, then wouldn’t that just be a way to cheese HG without PvP, thus cheapening the experience?

The fact is many players don’t handle losing very well, especially to other players. For that reason many people simply won’t ever be into HG, and that’s fine.

If anyone thinks that cheating isn’t the most destructive thing to HG, I’d be surprised, and if getting more players in HG is the goal then let’s talk about the low hanging fruit before we start adding skelly ships to a PvP matchmaking system.

@eva1977 said in If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?:

@capt-greldik It is not a wretched idea because you don't like it, and the point is not about making the game competitive with AI but the opposite as thats what PVP are there for but maybe can be a stepping stone before moving in to actual pvp where new players can practice their skills to say level 10 and then they can't advance anymore levels after that unless engaging actual players.
While having the option to either start from level 1 against other players or take the AI path until they reach level 10 or so.

I’m not against the idea of low level players playing against AI to say, level 10 or something like that as an HG tutorial (with very little, if any allegiance gained) but what the op proposes is a gap filler so that the pool is larger and the chances of getting matched against someone significantly better than you is lower.

It is indeed a wretched idea to me, we all have opinions, and I shared mine. It’s a wretched idea to introduce skelly ships to a PvP matching making system. Quote me :)

@eva1977 said in If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?:

@hiradc I've seen some videos where other players that are top pvp players call out other players of being cheaters because they can't beat them but at not point in the video is there clear evidence the players are cheating and i feel this is another problem plaguing SOT pvp.
Not saying this applies to you but simply put it's the clear example nobody in the game wants to get stomped on, nobody wants to lose HG in seconds, so another system needs to be in place to have proper balance be it by AI or whatever if there isn't sufficient players at low to mid level to fill the gaps.

What you just said there is yet another reason to focus on the low hanging fruit, which is cheating. If cheating weren’t rampant then people wouldn’t be so quick to suspect it.

I’m pretty decent at SoT PvP, but not great, and my first person shooter prowess is my weakest area since I haven’t played an FPS game in a long time (other than New World, which kinda counts but not really) and even I have been accused of aimbot a couple of times… which to me is a massive compliment lol. Point being, people are quick to claim cheating for a reason. Cheats are readily available, easily acquired, and often advertised blatantly on YouTube. Nothing deters my interest in SoT more than cheaters, and that sentiment is not unique to me. Fix the cheaters and I promise you the HG queue will improve.

I ran into a cheater the other day using a different, but similar user name, whom I actually reported previously and got him banned (per the email from Rare confirming that “players I reported have been banned”). I know it was him because he likes to use voice over to try and get people to go to his YouTube channel. This is my problem with HG (and the game in general) right there. What could possibly cause discouragement more than cheaters?

On that note, we can debate all day about whether someone is using aimbot and cannon bot, if you play HG enough you know what it looks like, but it’s difficult to prove, I get it. But what about the more obvious stuff like insta ladder which is easily captured on video? How about some of the previous popular cheats like flying (that’s back, btw, but not as prevalent as season 9), spawning kegs, teleporting, auto repair, all names, ship status menu, and so on? These things have all been prevalent in this game since I began in season 9, and while there’s an eb & flow to what cheats are common at the time, many still persist today in abundance. How about duping curse balls? I reported someone for that recently as well. Are we going to pretend like these things aren’t real, and wonder why HG isn’t as popular as it could be?

It’s the cheating, fix the cheating. I really enjoy hourglass and continue playing even with the cheaters, even during season 9 when at least half of my opponents were cheaters towards the end, but most people won’t.

@eva1977 said in If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?:

@capt-greldik If you are pretty decent at pvp i imagine you have your fair share of wins and loses but imagine if there was this one player that was unbeatable for you and legitimately winning.
Then imagine constantly going up against these kinds of players where someone like you was getting tossed around and doesn't matter how much you practiced you just couldn't hold a candle against these players that they actually made you look like a noob.

I bet you probably wouldn't enjoy that at all and this is what a lot of players go through so it's not a matter of practicing it's a matter of these players being on completely different levels that most of us will never reach nor desire, at least i don't because the amount of gameplay they go through to get there defeats the purpose of a game being fun for me.

That experience is not unique to any one person. We’ve all experienced that, and yes I encounter players that beat me convincingly, and yes sometimes I match up against them multiple times in a row. There’s nothing that these players you’re referring to are experiencing that everyone else hasn’t. Even the top streamers probably experience this occasionally. My question is, do these players care because they want the matchmaking to be better, or do they only care because they want the curse as quickly as possible and not look back once they have them?

The thing is, hourglass isn’t an esports ranked type of thing. It’s merely a streamlined PvP match making system integrated into the game world, with matchmaking somewhat based on player skill. My understanding is that it’s based on streaks. Well, what if I get a champion streak from sinking a loss farmer 4 times in a row? Then maybe I’ll get matched vs another champion streak player who got their streak from fighting killers. Thats how it works, but since the queue is low due to primarily, in my opinion, cheaters, you’re limited to whomever is queueing as well and that match might not be “fair”.

There’s nothing happening in HG to anyone that everyone else hasn’t experienced at some point and/or isn’t currently experiencing.

Note that getting better isn’t a race. You don’t have to get better right away, and nobody will convince me that they can’t get better over time. So there are people better than you, that’s okay, there always will be. That goes for 99.999% of us.

@eva1977 said in If there's now one near your skill level in HG to match with, why not fight against bot instead of someone who will sink you in 1 min?:

@capt-greldik Yeah but the problem is the majority probably experience this more often than not and in any game, doesn't mater if it's super mario or the latest great game on PC, if you get to a point where someone or something is unbeatable for you then how many attempts do you think a common player is going to try before abandoning it and moving on?
The point is it's not about players going through that or not but more a bout a consistent balanced experience needed for all.
How we will get there? i don't know but any suggestion to aleviate that is better in my opinion than a flat out refusal for change.
Maybe at your level something that works for a newbie might not work for you at all but thats why these boards are here.

More players participating in HG would equate to better match-making, simply because one would be more likely to match against someone of a similar streak. If there are lot of players with 4+ steaks queueing, then the chances are they’ll match vs one another, similarly, if there are more players queueing with steaks of 0, 1, 2, 3, and so on, the chances are they’ll match with someone of a similar steak. The question then becomes: how do we get more people queuing? Well, what are the two most brought up complaints about hourglass? The answer is matchmaking, and cheating. Fix the cheating and undoubtedly more people will queue, with more people queuing the match making improves.

Thankfully, Rare is working on the anticheat, hopefully it works. Also, hopefully it happens prior to the PS5 players arriving because introducing a plethora (presumably) of players to a game plagued with cheats isn’t a good look.

For those who say that cheats are limited to HG, I would assume they make a point of avoiding players, because the cheaters are in regular adventure mode as well, but if you are doing your best to avoid conflict you might not see them; you also might not be able to recognize them due to inexperience with PvP. Cheats are also not limited to PvP… I’m looking at you, fish dupers, among a number of other non PvP related cheats. Fix the cheats and not only does HG improve, the entire game improves. Cheating in online games isn’t a new thing, but the amount of cheats I see in SoT is unprecedented in my gaming career.