New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it? (Throwing out ideas)

@eva1977 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

So if developers were to say "Hey you can now fly to space on a pterodactyl" i wouldn't mind it.
Obviously this is an extreme example but maybe in the past when the game was recent then this would have enraged me but now i welcome change as it gives us a new approach to an old experience.

In regards to the points in the op I think a lot of it just boils down to limitations as a live service game that serves very very different types of players.

It's less that people are opposed to change and more than people are trying to preserve their styles within an evolving environment, while wanting game performance improved.

It's a constant effort to try to balance growth for the future and quality of the experience as it currently exists.

In my honest opinion, the game is only truly lacking a sense of mystery. One of the reasons people seemed to like the "Who killed DeMarco mystery" more than the "Hoarder's Hunt" mystery was the fact that in the DeMarco mystery, the players essentially got to explore areas of the sea of thieves as a reward for completing the puzzles leading up to those areas. The fact that players had to complete puzzles to get to those areas made them more interesting than they would have been otherwise. If there were more events like these, I think more people would want to play the game. While it is interesting to fight, ally, and deceive other players, some people just want to explore.

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

I have suggestions that might be steps towards making the game less shallow.

1. Work towards making every part of an island stand out uniquely. Like in Escape from Tarkov. Its literally possible. Stop saying its not.

2. Stop copy pasting npc jobs. One outpost is all outposts. One fisher is all fishers. (The stonebrick town is sick but still feels empty somehow).

3. Make NPCs actually do more than just standing there and waiting to receive packages. Or sell.

4. Give players more reasons to make a world feel naturally more active. Like its a Minecraft server or something. There can be other gameplay loops. Like town and tavern upkeep. Merchant business at bay (no weapons), mercenary protector (defend civilians), baker, etc.

Like ik Tarkov, have a quest system that makes players have a multitude of unique lore reasons to go to places aks do things. This contributes to worldbuilding. Do this everywhere.

5. Hideouts.

6. More rare randomly occuring loot.

7. Make all chests openable.

8. Realistic mechanics like being able to throw a key, crouch, go prone, climbing and vaulting, swinging from ropes, holding on to a boat from the side, etc.

I know this post is pointless in doing, as people here can't even settle and agree on adding chat history to the game. But I do what I can to contribute.

Work towards making every part of an island stand out uniquely. Like in Escape from Tarkov. Its literally possible. Stop saying its not.

Each island is unique. What do you want? Special buildings and NPCs on every island?

Stop copy pasting npc jobs. One outpost is all outposts. One fisher is all fishers. (The stonebrick town is sick but still feels empty somehow).

That's so people can do what they need to at any outpost, without the need to sail for 20 minutes to find a specific NPC.

Make NPCs actually do more than just standing there and waiting to receive packages. Or sell.

The islands are not big, so what else would they do?

Give players more reasons to make a world feel naturally more active. Like its a Minecraft server or something.

But it's not Minecraft. This is SoT.

Like town and tavern upkeep.

Why? We're pirates, not tavern owners or mayors of towns.
How would it work? There's only so many islands per server, and what happens when you move to a new server?
What if someone else owns the same tavern you own on server merge?

Merchant business at bay (no weapons)

What?

mercenary protector (defend civilians)

Why? Babysitting NPCs is not usually fun in games.

baker, etc.

Game does not need crafting, baking, mining, gathering, alchemy, beer brewing, or other things.
Because it's Sea of Thieves. Not Sea of Minecraft. Not Sea of Tarkov. Sea of Thieves.

Like ik Tarkov, have a quest system that makes players have a multitude of unique lore reasons to go to places aks do things. This contributes to worldbuilding. Do this everywhere.

You have reasons; the various quests to hunt ships and skeletons.
We don't need the devs to write 50 pages of lore per quest.
This. Is not. Tarkov.

Hideouts.

Would be fun. But not needed.

More rare randomly occuring loot.

Loot does randomly occur.

Make all chests openable.

First you want lore, then you ignore the lore that states the chests can't be opened without the magic key the Gold Hoarders have.
When we turn in a chest; They open it and we get our cut.

Realistic mechanics like being able to throw a key

Why?

crouch

Why?

go prone

This is not an FPS. We don't need to crouch and go prone.

climbing and vaulting

So now we're Gear of Thieves and Breath Of The Thieves.
No. Stop trying to turn SoT into other games.

swinging from ropes

Why?

holding on to a boat from the side

You can. At the ladders.

I know this post is pointless in doing, as people here can't even settle and agree on adding chat history to the game. But I do what I can to contribute.

Your 'contribution' is "Turn Sea of Thieves into a mess of mechanics from other games. Completely destroy its identity for the sole reason that other games have things I like."

@guildar9194 The Helldivers 2 devs recently said "trying to make a game for everybody will produce a game for nobody."

That's 90% of the "suggestions" lately; add this mechanic from this game, add that mechanic from that game... no one seems to understand what makes Sea of Thieves unique and appreciate it.

@lordqulex said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@guildar9194 The Helldivers 2 devs recently said "trying to make a game for everybody will produce a game for nobody."

That's 90% of the "suggestions" lately; add this mechanic from this game, add that mechanic from that game... no one seems to understand what makes Sea of Thieves unique and appreciate it.

Yep! They are correct.
Any game that tries to be 'everything' always gets reviews that say 'This game has no identity' or 'It has allot of mechanics, but none of them are polished' or even 'It tries to be [list of games here] but each of them do it better'.

@guildar9194 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@lordqulex said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@guildar9194 The Helldivers 2 devs recently said "trying to make a game for everybody will produce a game for nobody."

That's 90% of the "suggestions" lately; add this mechanic from this game, add that mechanic from that game... no one seems to understand what makes Sea of Thieves unique and appreciate it.

Yep! They are correct.
Any game that tries to be 'everything' always gets reviews that say 'This game has no identity' or 'It has allot of mechanics, but none of them are polished' or even 'It tries to be [list of games here] but each of them do it better'.

There's a lot of potential here, but a lot of castaways just need to ask "why," or "what does this add to game," instead of "I like this mechanic let's add it because!"

I like the grapple idea, I like the idea of being able to roll up ladders and cut a rope to drop them or use a grappling hook to scale the side of the ship or the harpoon to drag the ships closer when the masts are down. That focuses on the pirate adventure part of a shared world pirate adventure sandbox. But going prone, crouching, throwing keys... what does that add? How does it enhance the game other than giving trolls another tool to use against good faith pirates?

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@lordqulex You don't need to think long before remembering adding movement abilities contributes to the idea of hiding and being more sneaky in Sea of Thieves, hiding in unique spots, moving silently.

Go watch the documentary and tell me when the developers were "hiding an being more sneaky." This is not the game they are making.

Or being able to throw a key to your buddy across a map as to avoid people trying to kill you.

Throwing a key to your buddy isn't going to stop them from killing you.

You ask why so much but unless you think for yourself you won't back my attempt to make you think why these "pointless" suggestions would all contribute to your idea of a game, despite "taking from other genres"

I think for myself a fair bit, and I don't think your suggestions add anything to the current gameplay cycle.

Taking from quests in Tarkov isn't to have quests. It is to have reasons to put things in the world with added stories. Like Tell Tales but there are more of them.

Some of us haven't played Tarkov.

You say there's no space on islands for active npcs. Well all I see there is empty land. More than enough space.

There's plenty of space for NPCs on island, just... why? Some pirates want more exploration, others want more NPCs on the island making the game less exploratory. Again, make a game for everyone and you've made a game for no one.

Answered some of your whys.0

You've tried. Pitifully.

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@eva1977 Exactly! Do much and fail but then take away what doesn't work and keep what works.

Absolutely no game spends money, manpower (which is more money), and time (which is more money) 'Seeing what works'.
Any game developer worth the title will figure out the theme of their game, and figure out what they want to have as part of that theme.

In SoT's case; The theme is 'Casual, Pirate (Which broadly covers the asthetics of the weapons and outfits, and ideas like skeleton crews and buried treasure), Sandbox, PvP, Sailing, Cartoony'.
So they did not have to waste time, and money, coding and trying such things as 'going prone' and 'climbing stuff', or 'town and taven upkeep' because they knew that those things did not fit the game they were making.
They were not making a crafting sim, or a tavern sim, or a survival game with hunger and thirst meters.

The first step before sitting down to actually put code in is figure out what you want, because no company has infinite time and money to spend throwing 5,000 ideas at a wall & see what sticks.

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@guildar9194 Sure, creating a game with different jobs is a different game.

But was exploration with friends not a goal in their minds?

A guided step by step telltale isn't exploration to me. Its a puzzle with scenery.

People here say Sea of Thieves is so full. But every island is not much more unique than their pretty terraforming and traces from telltales that will literally block you from entering without doing it from an outpost, knowing exactly what it is.

My suggestions aren't the bible. But the core problem I'm getting at is being overlooked.

But the core problem I'm getting at is being overlooked.

What 'core problem' is that? That some people don't like the game?
That happens with every game, believe it or not. A few people not liking the game is not grounds to change everything or add a bunch of random stuff to make them happy.

But I want a rich world. People say its rich but then why does it feel so empty?

Maybe the game is not for you? Harsh to say, but if a game in its current state is not fun for you; Move on.
Don't expect the developers to change everything, and don't play a game for what you think it can be. Because you're not playing that future hypothetical game; You are playing the game as it is now.

Giving ideas is good, but if a bunch of people say an idea is bad; Maybe they are bad ideas?

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@knurd9369 They do with Fortnite.

Fortnite is owned by Epic, and is thus in a unique position that we are not allowed to discuss here due to forum rules. It is an exception to the rule.

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@lordqulex "Or being able to throw a key to your buddy across a map as to avoid people trying to kill you."

You: "Throwing a key to your buddy isn't going to stop them from killing you."

You say you think for yourself, yet you don't see that the key is the objective not the life? Throw key, friend catches, you die, friend escapes and gets all the loot.

I just don't see a situation where that is relevant. There are three keys in the game: ashen keys, vault keys, and cabin keys. In the ashen key instance, they are so common no one is going to fight over them. Vault keys and cabin keys generally won't be fought over because if they can't get the key, they'll just wait for you to do the event then sink your ship for the loot.

Now, yes, I understand the "key" was a metaphor for a highly valuable McGuffin worth absconding with, but even then you're not considering the wider picture. Great, you've thrown the McGuffin and your buddy picked it up and is running with it. Unless you're at the outpost and the McGuffin is a Chest of Fortune or something, you're taking it back to your boat and now you've got to sail somewhere to use it. Boom, back in naval combat. The ability to throw something would take a lot of effort (see the hit reg performance if you need an example) and wouldn't fundamentally change anything about the game.

The cost is not worth the benefit.

@thegrimpreacher I mean, I get it. The mechanics are in the game. Throw a firebomb, throw a blunder bomb, throw a skull, throw a key, sure.

Why??

In the time it takes to pick up that key (what, 0.7-1.5s?) your quarry has already caught up to you and shot/slashed you. Throwing a key, easy. Picking up the key takes more time than saved by throwing it in the first place. I would argue being able to sprint with a trinket would be more valuable than throwing one. Generally golden age of sail cannon balls were ten pounders. So if I can carry 500 lbs of cannonball in a crate, sprinting with a voodoo doll should be CAKE.

@zimited8670 said in New players say the game feels empty. What will you do about it?:

@guildar9194 Its not for me. Not for my friends. Not for their friends. Not for the friends of those hundreds who I talk with in the game.

Who is it for? The stubborn sweats like me that got mad for losing my turbocasual pve game to some 1k hour player and decided to practice for thousands of hours? I left the game after too so guess I don't count.

The 'hundreds' you've talked too?
Where?
Did you collate their replies to keep track? Or are you just assuming you spoke to hundreds (plural) of people in-game, and they all said they want random mechanics because the game feels empty?
Because I don't believe it.