Skeleton ships

@captain-coel i do not want to waste my shots on an npc then get ran up on by a pc player and not be able to defend myself

I agree with the OP: the aggressiveness of skeleton ships is a bit uncharacteristic for the game. Megs have an encounter zone you can leave. Krakens have an encounter zone you can leave. But when a skeleton ship surfaces on you, it will chase you to the ends of the earth. Yes, they aren't hard to sink, but sometimes I just don't want to bother with it. Yes, it is possible (but IME uncommon and difficult) to get them to leave you alone; but every other encounter in the game is optional.

S11 is about getting into the action quickly, and playing what you want to play how you want to play it. Skeleton ships seem to scoff in the face of that; when one spawns on you, you are stuck playing the way they want you to play.

This is just one pirate's observation, but yea skeleton ships' aggressiveness seems misaligned with the rest of the game at the moment...

@lordqulex said in Skeleton ships:

I agree with the OP: the aggressiveness of skeleton ships is a bit uncharacteristic for the game. Megs have an encounter zone you can leave. Krakens have an encounter zone you can leave. But when a skeleton ship surfaces on you, it will chase you to the ends of the earth. Yes, they aren't hard to sink, but sometimes I just don't want to bother with it. Yes, it is possible (but IME uncommon and difficult) to get them to leave you alone; but every other encounter in the game is optional.

S11 is about getting into the action quickly, and playing what you want to play how you want to play it. Skeleton ships seem to scoff in the face of that; when one spawns on you, you are stuck playing the way they want you to play.

This is just one pirate's observation, but yea skeleton ships' aggressiveness seems misaligned with the rest of the game at the moment...

The map is so crowded these days that there are constant opportunities to juke a skelly ship other than at open sea.

Emergent threats were supposed to be interference because interference breaks up monotony and predictability.

They've been nerfed to near irrelevancy because some pvpers and some new players regularly get fired up about the interference.

The intent was always to create something different in sessions that are so often the same without the threat of emergent interference.

@burnbacon maybe... but not enough distance. i think curse balls should be 4x effective on skeleton ships. ie if i anchor ball a ship to try and sail away they shouldnt be able to load up their speed hacks and catch back up the second it wears off. the fact that their ships increase speed to catch us even if that means surpassing the ships capable speed.

similarly some skeleton nerfs would be amazing. if you happen to kill the skeleton on the canon another skeleton quickly replaces them. if a canon ball hits our ship near where we are on a canon it knocks us off the canon in the middle of a reload.... however if we hit a skeleton ship with a canon ball near their canon but it doesnt kill the skeleton it also doesnt knock the skeleton off the canon like it knocks us off. meaning we suffer from a delaying second shot while the skeletons can be hindered in anyway

fire is also super ineffective vs skeleton ships. it will never get to the point where it puts a hole in the ship. if your lucky if might kill a few skeletons on deck but it wont help sink them faster. they shouldnt be able to douse the fire at all. with fire bombs being more rare now they should be more impactful vs pve

i fought a skeleton sloop the other day while there was a skeleton galleon in the distance. i thought "wouldnt it be crazy if in these scenarios the ship you were fighting called for aid? well right as the sloop sunk the galleon actual sailed toward me and ended up engaging too. the sloop had 4x the loot that the galleon did..... what is that about? you would think, bigger ship, tougher fight, better reward? seems like the loot amounts of the 2 ships are flipped.

Skeleton ships can be outrun if you put enough holes in their hull and fill it with water their ship will slow down and will be unable to catch up to your ship.

Skeleton ships do NOT need to be nerfed.

They are already very easy to sink assuming you understand that a galleon doesn’t flood unless you inflict lower deck hull damage.

What I would like to see is skeleton brigantines and I think all skeleton ships should have breakable masts, wheel and capstan.

This way you don’t have to yell at your open crew mate to stop wasting chainshot on skeleton ships.

@wolfmanbush said in Skeleton ships:

The map is so crowded these days that there are constant opportunities to juke a skelly ship other than at open sea.

I'll have to give this a try, I guess. I like to think I'm not a swabbie anymore but even around islands like Shipwreck Bay I find it difficult to lose a skeleton ship. They have impossible maneuverability, acceleration/deceleration, and top speed when they want to catch up with you no matter what you've done.

Emergent threats were supposed to be interference because interference breaks up monotony and predictability.

They've been nerfed to near irrelevancy because some pvpers and some new players regularly get fired up about the interference.

The intent was always to create something different in sessions that are so often the same without the threat of emergent interference.

Totally agree with all of this, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Everything else is easier to escape. The storm does the same thing, but it's trivial to sail around it and not terribly difficult to sail through it, even solo. I think an emergent skeleton ship is much harder to escape from than any other emergent threat in the game, noticeably so. I'm merely speaking to my perceived imbalance, not to the event's vices or virtues.

@jadecelery77176 said in Skeleton ships:

Skeleton ships can be outrun if you put enough holes in their hull and fill it with water their ship will slow down and will be unable to catch up to your ship.

Skeleton ships do NOT need to be nerfed.

They are already very easy to sink assuming you understand that a galleon doesn’t flood unless you inflict lower deck hull damage.

What I would like to see is skeleton brigantines and I think all skeleton ships should have breakable masts, wheel and capstan.

This way you don’t have to yell at your open crew mate to stop wasting chainshot on skeleton ships.

Player agency is a huge part of Sea of Thieves; we are each allowed to voyage the way we want. That's what this is about: sinking a skeleton ship should not be the only option, it removes player agency. Skeleton ships shouldn't be easier to escape, they just shouldn't immediately accelerate to ludicrous speed the moment a rock puts a mediocrum of distance between you and them.

@lordqulex

Elden Ring isn’t as popular as it is because the game is so easy a toddler could play it.

I firmly believe Rare over-nerfed PvE in S9.

I strongly oppose any requests to further nerf the difficultly of the PvE in this game.

I’m rapidly losing interest in the game now. I didn’t ask for reduced quantity of treasure for every voyage in the game. I didn’t ask for PvE to be nerfed into the ground. All I’ve ever asked for is that solo players have their own roster and if people choose to play as a solo sloop as opposed to a duo sloop then they would be placed on servers with only other solo sloops.

Again, I personally strongly oppose the idea of any further nerfs to the difficulty of the PvE in this game.

In fact I wish the PvE difficulty was ramped up a bit back to a respectable level.

@jadecelery77176 said in Skeleton ships:

@lordqulex

Elden Ring isn’t as popular as it is because the game is so easy a toddler could play it.

I firmly believe Rare over-nerfed PvE in S9.

I strongly oppose any requests to further nerf the difficultly of the PvE in this game.

I’m rapidly losing interest in the game now. I didn’t ask for reduced quantity of treasure for every voyage in the game. I didn’t ask for PvE to be nerfed into the ground. All I’ve ever asked for is that solo players have their own roster and if people choose to play as a solo sloop as opposed to a duo sloop then they would be placed on servers with only other solo sloops.

Again, I personally strongly oppose the idea of any further nerfs to the difficulty of the PvE in this game.

In fact I wish the PvE difficulty was ramped up a bit back to a respectable level.

Go on YouTube and watch the official Sea of Thieves content. Look at the graphics. Look at the hardware requirements and cost. They are targeting younger gamers, more casual gamers... They nerfed PvE because most pirates aren't content creators with hours to play every day. Most pirates have an hour or two a night, if they're lucky, which means the game needs to be encapsulate to an hour or two to go get treasure, run into an emergent event or PvP to interfere with you turning in the treasure (a.k.a. the unnecessary obstacle we're volunteering to overcome), then turn in the treasure for gold and renown. That is the game cycle and that's why PvE got nerfed—so that the casual gamers they're targeting can experience the full cycle with the limited time they have to play.

The game is designed for the bulk of pirates, the average pirate, and to them emergent skeleton ships are out of alignment with the difficulty of other emergent events. That's why I believe it could use a rebalance.

@lordqulex

When I get out of my bath im going to kill an ashen lord using only my sword in less than 5 mins without dying maybe without taking any damage.

I’ll post it.

Then I can’t wait for you to tell me that Rare didn’t over nerf PvE in s9.

@jadecelery77176

Congratulations, you are more skilled than the average Sea of Thieves player. Enjoy the title that comes with the commendation for killing Ashen Lords, display it with pride. I'm genuinely sure someone will be envious of it.

Just because you find it easy doesn't make you the average pirate.

@lordqulex

You are the person who can’t be wrong I remember you. But you are wrong.

See rare nerfed the og ashen winds event way before s9.

I vividly remember fighting with a ton of forum people even mods about my first ashen winds experience as a solo.

It literally took me over an hour maybe two hours to kill the ashen lord.

So they nerfed the hp of the ashen lords before s9.

This is how much Rare doesn’t play their own game..

So s9 comes along and really the only event that needed rebalancing was the fort of fortune but what does Rare do?

They nerf everything again regardless of whether or not it was already nerfed in the past.

Now you can kill a skeleton lord and ashen lord in under 5 mins.

Skeleton lords have the most boring and ineffective attacks ever. They raise skeletons, pound the ground, teleport and occasionally use their weapons. Skeleton lords need new attacks and more hp.

Ashen lords have decent attacks but desperately need more hp.

The bosses this game aren’t bosses anymore. They don’t feel like bosses because they die so quickly and barely do any damage.

@jadecelery77176

I encourage you to try and look outside of your own experience. Now you can kill a skeleton lord and ashen lord in under five minutes. Content creators can kill a skeleton/ashen lord in under five minutes. But you are not the only players in the game. There is a wide spectrum of skill, and ability, and time availability. What you call nerfing other players call "making accessible."

I can be wrong, I've been wrong many times and conceded on these very forums. But you are looking at the experience through your eyes, which is understandable. But Rare is trying to make Sea of Thieves accessible for everybody, including families with young gamers and gamers without much time. They've stated this multiple times specifically around S11, Sea Forts, and PvE nerfing. They did this so more people could enjoy Sea of Thieves in less time.

Yes, to pirates like you and me with thousands of hours in the game and many of the commendations, this amounts to "nerfing into the ground;" I agree with you! But Rare's only purpose to existence, the only purpose of any corporation, is to get their product into the hands of as many people as possible. That is business 101. That's why they made the game easier: they noticed the trend of xennials starting families, and getting their kids into gaming. They noticed the next generation of gamers beginning to play, and the next, and the next, and they decided to expand into the younger, more casual market space.

And in that regard, back to the point of the thread, skeleton ships being able to chase you for ever and ever seems to me out of alignment with the difficulty of other emergent events.

@lordqulex

I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on SoT.

Nerfing the PvE into the ground was akin to a chef burning a steak after the customer sent it back because it was undercooked to them.

Maybe the PvE difficultly can scale to a players average reputation in all of the trading companies but nerfing all PvE to the ground is making me find other hobbies.

@jadecelery77176

This idea has also floated around for a while: a hardcore mode. In addition to high seas, maybe there can be a little checkbox that doubles or triples the health of encounters.

The challenge is, what happens if a crew in hardcore mode happens upon or is happened upon a crew not in hardcore mode? They'd almost need a third set of servers (in addition to high seas and safer seas), called Dangerous Waters. They could do it now I suppose, but they need to look at the numbers (and the forums) to see if that's worth the cost (monetary and game experience) to separate the player base even further...

@lordqulex said in Skeleton ships:

@jadecelery77176

This idea has also floated around for a while: a hardcore mode. In addition to high seas, maybe there can be a little checkbox that doubles or triples the health of encounters.

The challenge is, what happens if a crew in hardcore mode happens upon or is happened upon a crew not in hardcore mode? They'd almost need a third set of servers (in addition to high seas and safer seas), called Dangerous Waters. They could do it now I suppose, but they need to look at the numbers (and the forums) to see if that's worth the cost (monetary and game experience) to separate the player base even further...

We don’t need an additional mode and we don’t bullet sponge bosses that are still not capable of doing any damage but simply take a lot more time to kill.

We need skeletons that don’t just run in a straight line to the closest pirate.

We need skeletons that can jump, strafe, dodge and move faster than pirates.

Skeleton lords need more hp and new attacks along with the aforementioned jumping, strafing and dodging abilities given to the skeletons. Plus a few brand new skeleton lord exclusive attacks. Maybe each skeleton lord has a different gun equipped.

Ashen lords need more hp during each phase and for their attacks to be slightly more effective especially their lunge attack which is very ineffective now and their ground pound and which has been nerfed hard.

We need megalodons that don’t spawn and despawn. They need more than one attack. They should follow their target until they are defeated.

The kraken should be a multiphase event with new attacks and takes longer to kill.

The green clam ocean crawlers poison attack called spores is so weak it’s a complete joke it does basically no damage, snakes do more damage.

The red crab ocean crawlers are so slow and they only have one attack I think they should be able to do something else maybe a short crab run or something.

TLDR in less than 10 mins I can list several ways to make the PvE more challenging and thus feel more rewarding to complete.

Veteran players who like PvE more than pirate hunting do not enjoy over nerfed super easy PvE.

I wish Rare would understand this.

The controversial part of SoT that most people have an issue with is the PvP not the PvE.

So what does Rare do?

Rare nerfs the PvE. And not just a little bit but by a substantial amount.

I cannot believe I can start and finish a WORLD EVENT in under 5 mins as a solo.

Hilariously people think this is good for the game when it all it does is cheapen world events and make them less appealing to do in the long run.

@jadecelery77176 said in Skeleton ships:

TLDR in less than 10 mins I can list several ways to make the PvE more challenging and thus feel more rewarding to complete.

To you.*

Veteran players who like PvE more than pirate hunting do not enjoy over nerfed super easy PvE.

I wish Rare would understand this.

They understand this. They also understand what percentage of their player base these pirates represent and have decided that PvE needs to be made simpler, easier, and more accessible.

The controversial part of SoT that most people have an issue with is the PvP not the PvE.

So what does Rare do?

Rare nerfs the PvE. And not just a little bit but by a substantial amount.

I cannot believe I can start and finish a WORLD EVENT in under 5 mins as a solo.

Hilariously people think this is good for the game when it all it does is cheapen world events and make them less appealing to do in the long run.

This is great for the game!! PvE is not the game, it is the way to generate stakes for the game. The game, i.e. the unnecessary obstacle we're volunteering to overcome, are the other pirates; the PvP. What they've done is made the PvE easier so we can collect our ante faster, and reduced the number while increasing the value of treasure so we can get it on to the ship faster.

This gets us into the game faster. The drama and tension of having a ship full of loot and seeing a ship on the horizon. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and seeing a ship docked at the outpost you wanted to sell at. Nerfing PvE is brilliant because it achieves two goals: it gets younger and more casual into safer seas engaging with the world (and with any luck buying emporium cosmetics), and it gets us experienced pirates back onto the seas faster with loot to fight over.

What I don't like about Sea of Thieves are the PvP exclusive pirates—the crews that just hunt down and sink ships with or without treasure onboard. Those pirates have nothing to lose but everything to gain, which is anathema to the risk/reward paradigm that Sea of Thieves claims to be. When I sink another ship and get nothing in return I feel cheated; I wasted my time and supplies and got nothing for it. Why do I have to accept all the risk and receive zero reward? That was the point of new treasure and new commendations: make players want to get the treasure so there are stakes for the game again!

@lordqulex

Lmbo

“This is great for the game!! PvE is not the game, it is the way to generate stakes for the game. The game, i.e. the unnecessary obstacle we're volunteering to overcome, are the other pirates; the PvP. What they've done is made the PvE easier so we can collect our ante faster, and reduced the number while increasing the value of treasure so we can get it on to the ship faster. “

To you PvE is not the game

TO ME PVE IS THE GAME

Write this down,

I prefer PvE’ing over PvP’ing and selling loot.

You need to write it down so you understand that some people actually like PvE’ing in this game more than anything else.

@lordqulex

Talk about not being able to think outside of your own box.

You cannot understand that some people genuinely enjoy the PvE over everything else.

Now your generally horrible takes make more sense.

Like how you think fighting a solo sloop is more scary than fighting a full crew.

@jadecelery77176 said in Skeleton ships:

TO ME PVE IS THE GAME

Write this down,

I prefer PvE’ing over PvP’ing and selling loot.

You need to write it down so you understand that some people actually like PvE’ing in this game more than anything else.

Then the challenge is you are not playing the game Rare envisions. This was a hard lesson for me to learn, but it finally dawned on my while watching the mini documentary they made. This is a PvEvP adventure sandbox. Without PvE, the PvP has no meaning. Without PvP, the PvE has no risk. Only combined does the game make sense. I understand enjoying one aspect over the other. What I enjoy the most is socializing with my crew, so in that regard I do enjoy a PvE milk run over an intense PvP chase and battle. But to enjoy one exclusively, or so much more than the other that you don't considering it even part of the game, is not what Rare is making; that is not their creative vision.

In the documentary, they talk about doing a world event, selling loot, doing some voyages, seeing another ship, fighting over treasure, rinse and repeat. You're asking for the PvE to be made harder because it seems, given the option, you'd remove PvP from the game. I could be wrong, but if PvE IS THE GAME I'm betting you'd like to see the bulk of PvP removed. But that is not the game Rare has created. If they made the PvE harder, it would increase the time spend on islands, which would increase the likelihood of your ship getting attacked and sunk while you're nowhere near it. That is no fun for the casual player, which as we mentioned above is sadly now the bulk of the player base. Not to mention if the game take longer, they would risk disengaging pirates that don't have the time or capability to defeat the new, more difficult bosses.

Embracing the unique nature of PvE and PvP in Sea of Thieves is key to understanding why things are balanced the way they are. Which is why, as I continue to try and bring the conversation back on topic, it seems the Skeleton Ships are harder than other emergent encounters. They should be brought in line by removing a skeleton ship's ability to turn on a dime and catch up to you no matter the other factors (wind, ship size, et cetera).

@jadecelery77176 said in Skeleton ships:

Elden Ring isn’t as popular as it is because the game is so easy a toddler could play it.

I get it now; you want an Elden Rings/Dark Souls experience. You want epic and challenging boss battles and minion encounters that take skill and technique to defeat. I understand wanting that, I understand enjoying that kind of game. What I don't understand is coming onto the forums of a PvEvP shared world pirate adventure sandbox, and demanding they make the game more like Elden Rings and Dark Souls because if they did, you'd enjoy it more.

Sadly for you and fortunately for the rest of us, you are not a lead game designer at Rare. You have purchased and signed up to play their game, as have the rest of us. We did not sign up to play Elden Rings, or Dark Souls, we want to play a cartoonish, wacky, PvEvP shared world pirate adventure sandbox. I truly hate telling people "then go play that game" but RPG elements, vertical growth, and challenging Souls-like enemies are simply not the game Rare is making.