Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

I said it before and I'll say it again.

You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. Its not the player's fault if the matchmaking is bugged/broken/slow/not-enough-players. But when they flag for PvP they are taking on the risk and should be rewarded for that time. The benefit would increase the pool of people looking to PvP. Imagine diving and coming up to a ship full of loot because the other crew had a bigger incentive to stash loot.

Everytime I dive for PvP its always a ship with no loot. Nobody really PvE's and then flags for PvP...

I was told by the trolls here before. Nah... its fine. Rare is perfect.. Basically.
No, its a half-baked thing to stash loot on your ship. I've gone hours with no battles and have Stash level 5. Fort of Fortunes. Athenas. I even had that and did a Siren Song solo and still no battle.

I flagged and took on the risk and didn't get a reward for it because... the game didn't give me anyone to battle..

I might be misunderstanding what you’re saying, but you actually do get allegiance when turning in your treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded/have to defend it. It’s not a lot, but with a tier 5 treasure trove you’ll get a decent little bump, significantly larger than a loss would give you, but also less than a win would give you.

I used to do ghost forts which will usually give a tier 2 treasure trove. I’d raise hourglass right before I looted everything and then the 15 minute timer (before one can lower hourglass) began. I’d almost always manage a tier 3 treasure trove before arriving at an outpost because I’d hit islands for a couple pieces to bump me into the next tier. I’d almost always get invaded because the U.S. west hourglass queue is pretty healthy, but on off hours I’d sometimes manage to lower hourglass right after the 15 mins was up and get a little “free” allegiance.

IMO, this isn’t worth it if you’re trying to get allegiance as quickly as possible. However, it’s a nice alternative, and actually, on regions with low hourglass activity it might even be op because one could simply turn in their treasure trove repeatedly without having to defend.

@capt-greldik

You misunderstand but pretty well came to the same conclusion yourself.

Theres no real incentive to stash loot unless you have Stash 5 and win a battle.

But the time you flagged and took on the risk for stashing loot.. I think should have some more rewards tied into it (even if a cap to prevent an AFK ship on a full server just farming free points).

If you take on risk you should get a reward. And flagging your ship is a huge risk. Its not the players fault if like I said you dont get a battle for X reason. If you flag, you should be rewarded in kind.

If Rare increased the incentives for this I guarantee you many people will do it and diving for PvP will be a lot more lucrative and fun.

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik

You misunderstand but pretty well came to the same conclusion yourself.

Theres no real incentive to stash loot unless you have Stash 5 and win a battle.

But the time you flagged and took on the risk for stashing loot.. I think should have some more rewards tied into it (even if a cap to prevent an AFK ship on a full server just farming free points).

If you take on risk you should get a reward. And flagging your ship is a huge risk. Its not the players fault if like I said you dont get a battle for X reason. If you flag, you should be rewarded in kind.

If Rare increased the incentives for this I guarantee you many people will do it and diving for PvP will be a lot more lucrative and fun.

I might be misunderstanding again, but are you suggesting that players get a reward simply for raising hourglass?

The way it works now is like this:

1. Player raises hourglass
2. Player accumulates a faction treasure trove
3. Player almost certainly gets invaded (if NA at least) and either loses or wins
4. If the player wins, the player gets allegiance at an increased rate based on treasure trove level
5. If the player loses, the player gets an amount of allegiance equivalent to any loss (treasure trove or not)
6. In the off-chance that you make it 15 minutes without getting invaded (region depending), you can turn in your hourglass at an outpost and get a small amount of allegiance

Depending on the players motive, the above might be a suitable scenario for them. With all that said, if you win your fights in this environment then this method could be better than diving. However, if you're someone who can get a high streak then this is not efficient. Similarly, if you're someone who does not expect to win your fights, this method is not efficient. If you think that you can get a streak then dive, if you think that you can't win then loss farm, both would be more efficient. My assessment of this is based on efficiency, efficiency isn't necessarily what guides one to pursue this method. When I did it, I was experimenting, but even after realizing the inefficiencies I continued doing it for a time just to mix things up.

I play Aussie servers occasionally with some friends. Their hourglass queue is bad. What this translates to a is a more aggressive adventure mode, but also the ability to farm a full session with hourglass and not get invaded. I'd imagine players in those regions could cheese hourglass allegiance pretty easily. In fact, I know they can, but not in a fun way.

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but my interpretation of all the hourglass allegiance post on these forums is this: "please speed up allegiance gains because I don't actually want hourglass but want the curse, once I get my curse I will never touch hourglass again.". Meanwhile, there actually is a portion of the community that likes hourglass and doesn't want it undermined by those who do not like it, simply so that those who don't like it can get their skeleton curse.

@capt-greldik

3. Uh no they don't.
   Ive gone many sessions with loot on board for hours without a single battle.
   I took on the risk. I didnt get rewarded for taking on the risk.

" Meanwhile, there actually is a portion of the community that likes hourglass and doesn't want it undermined by those who do not like it, simply so that those who don't like it can get their skeleton curse."

I guess you're new to the update. People already cheesed it. It is demeaned. All people need to do is go afk and lose battles and gain rep lol... Its a nothing burger.
And Rare in every update like that.. make things very hard to do until nobody really does it anymore then they make it super easy and a lot of people catch up.

Prime example. Athena lvl 10. That was hours and hours of work. Now? Its meaningless. Pirate Legend is Meaningless. So keep trying to argue around my point... It'd be nice if you actually could address the problem. We take on risk.. .we don't get rewarded for it.

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik

3. Uh no they don't.
   Ive gone many sessions with loot on board for hours without a single battle.
   I took on the risk. I didnt get rewarded for taking on the risk.

" Meanwhile, there actually is a portion of the community that likes hourglass and doesn't want it undermined by those who do not like it, simply so that those who don't like it can get their skeleton curse."

I guess you're new to the update. People already cheesed it. It is demeaned. All people need to do is go afk and lose battles and gain rep lol... Its a nothing burger.
And Rare in every update like that.. make things very hard to do until nobody really does it anymore then they make it super easy and a lot of people catch up.

Prime example. Athena lvl 10. That was hours and hours of work. Now? Its meaningless. Pirate Legend is Meaningless. So keep trying to argue around my point... It'd be nice if you actually could address the problem. We take on risk.. .we don't get rewarded for it.

I challenge you to raise hourglass on NA right now and not get invaded within 10 minutes, never mind 15 minutes :). I’ve actually attempted this dozens and dozens of times. My results (primarily during season 9) were that I should expect invasion the vast majority of the time. If you think that you can avoid invasion within the 15 minute grace period with a level 5 treasure trove then I fail to understand the premise of your post, because if that’s the case then you can do it all day with easy free allegiance. Turning in a level 5 treasure trove without being invaded is comparable to an actual win (pre-champion win, if you get my meaning).

Admittedly, I’ve never attempted loss farming so I can’t say how good it is or isn’t, but I have lost and I know how abysmal the allegiance gained from a loss is. As an example, one time during a gold-rush weekend (or whatever they’re called) during off hours (I’m in a location where normal hours are off-hours for most in my server region) I ended up getting the same guy over and over, he was a loss farmer. I killed him 5 times in a row which garnered me a champion streak +1 turn-in. That is a fantastic amount of rep, while the guy who lost 5 times got what… less than a quarter of a level? It’s awful. I actually respect loss farmers for their tenacity. Why they don’t instead try to get better and win is beyond me, but their willingness to waste their own time for a curse is admirable, kinda.

If you believe that you can consistently run in a treasure trove without being invaded then you should let these loss farmers know about that, because it would be better.

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik

3. Uh no they don't.
   Ive gone many sessions with loot on board for hours without a single battle.
   I took on the risk. I didnt get rewarded for taking on the risk.

" Meanwhile, there actually is a portion of the community that likes hourglass and doesn't want it undermined by those who do not like it, simply so that those who don't like it can get their skeleton curse."

I guess you're new to the update. People already cheesed it. It is demeaned. All people need to do is go afk and lose battles and gain rep lol... Its a nothing burger.
And Rare in every update like that.. make things very hard to do until nobody really does it anymore then they make it super easy and a lot of people catch up.

Prime example. Athena lvl 10. That was hours and hours of work. Now? Its meaningless. Pirate Legend is Meaningless. So keep trying to argue around my point... It'd be nice if you actually could address the problem. We take on risk.. .we don't get rewarded for it.

I challenge you to raise hourglass on NA right now and not get invaded within 10 minutes, never mind 15 minutes :). I’ve actually attempted this dozens and dozens of times. My results (primarily during season 9) were that I should expect invasion the vast majority of the time. If you think that you can avoid invasion within the 15 minute grace period with a level 5 treasure trove then I fail to understand the premise of your post, because if that’s the case then you can do it all day with easy free allegiance. Turning in a level 5 treasure trove without being invaded is comparable to an actual win (pre-champion win, if you get my meaning).

Admittedly, I’ve never attempted loss farming so I can’t say how good it is or isn’t, but I have lost and I know how abysmal the allegiance gained from a loss is. As an example, one time during a gold-rush weekend (or whatever they’re called) during off hours (I’m in a location where normal hours are off-hours for most in my server region) I ended up getting the same guy over and over, he was a loss farmer. I killed him 5 times in a row which garnered me a champion streak +1 turn-in. That is a fantastic amount of rep, while the guy who lost 5 times got what… less than a quarter of a level? It’s awful. I actually respect loss farmers for their tenacity. Why they don’t instead try to get better and win is beyond me, but eir willingness to waste their own time for a curse is admirable, kinda.

If you believe that you can consistently run in a treasure trove without being invaded then you should let these loss farmers know about that, because it would be better.

Its not better because you actually have to PvE taking on risks in the open world...
Loss farming, if its a Double XP weekend, a loss counts as a regular win when not on the weekend. And a win on a double is like winning twice. So you see, all one needs to do is lose twice to get technically one win in xp...

Its not hard. Thats the math I was told.

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik

3. Uh no they don't.
   Ive gone many sessions with loot on board for hours without a single battle.
   I took on the risk. I didnt get rewarded for taking on the risk.

" Meanwhile, there actually is a portion of the community that likes hourglass and doesn't want it undermined by those who do not like it, simply so that those who don't like it can get their skeleton curse."

I guess you're new to the update. People already cheesed it. It is demeaned. All people need to do is go afk and lose battles and gain rep lol... Its a nothing burger.
And Rare in every update like that.. make things very hard to do until nobody really does it anymore then they make it super easy and a lot of people catch up.

Prime example. Athena lvl 10. That was hours and hours of work. Now? Its meaningless. Pirate Legend is Meaningless. So keep trying to argue around my point... It'd be nice if you actually could address the problem. We take on risk.. .we don't get rewarded for it.

I challenge you to raise hourglass on NA right now and not get invaded within 10 minutes, never mind 15 minutes :). I’ve actually attempted this dozens and dozens of times. My results (primarily during season 9) were that I should expect invasion the vast majority of the time. If you think that you can avoid invasion within the 15 minute grace period with a level 5 treasure trove then I fail to understand the premise of your post, because if that’s the case then you can do it all day with easy free allegiance. Turning in a level 5 treasure trove without being invaded is comparable to an actual win (pre-champion win, if you get my meaning).

Admittedly, I’ve never attempted loss farming so I can’t say how good it is or isn’t, but I have lost and I know how abysmal the allegiance gained from a loss is. As an example, one time during a gold-rush weekend (or whatever they’re called) during off hours (I’m in a location where normal hours are off-hours for most in my server region) I ended up getting the same guy over and over, he was a loss farmer. I killed him 5 times in a row which garnered me a champion streak +1 turn-in. That is a fantastic amount of rep, while the guy who lost 5 times got what… less than a quarter of a level? It’s awful. I actually respect loss farmers for their tenacity. Why they don’t instead try to get better and win is beyond me, but eir willingness to waste their own time for a curse is admirable, kinda.

If you believe that you can consistently run in a treasure trove without being invaded then you should let these loss farmers know about that, because it would be better.

Its not better because you actually have to PvE taking on risks in the open world...
Loss farming, if its a Double XP weekend, a loss counts as a regular win when not on the weekend. And a win on a double is like winning twice. So you see, all one needs to do is lose twice to get technically one win in xp...

Its not hard. Thats the math I was told.

Yea, but your reasoning is a bit off. In the very example I shared above I was referring to a double xp weekend, so any bonus to loss farming is nullified by the bonus given to winning. Furthermore, in my aforementioned experimentation with treasure troves I found many ways to raise my treasure trove with minimal risk. If you use an event then yes, the risk is higher for a player encounter, but outside of that most people don’t bother you (despite all of the horror stories found on these forums).. nobody cares about ghost forts, but guess what, they’ll get you a level 2 treasure trove every time and sometimes a level 3. In my experience, having been invaded almost always, I preferred to simply get a level 3 treasure trove from the ghost fort just south of plunder, if I only ended with level 2, then I’d hit the island just above it for a piece or two of treasure.

This was the most consistent and efficient way that I discovered. You won’t be bothered, and occasionally you’ll turn in without being invaded (on NA), but don’t count on it. Again, test that and report your findings if you like :). Even though I really enjoy hourglass I still would use alternative methods of allegiance gains to mix it up. I like PvE, combining the two is fun to me, but I typically like efficiency more.

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

@lord-spark-0 I'd ask you the same, except it doesn't matter because the devs "get it".

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

I’m still confused by what you’re asking for. Do you want increased rep when activating hourglass and pve’ing? As I pointed out in my post above, you already get allegiance when turning in hourglass with a faction treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded. After 15 minutes you can turn in your hourglass no matter what happens in between.

If you’re able to raise hourglass and pve without being attacked consistently (probably due to your region because you can’t on NA), then you’re already getting free allegiance without pvp.

So you must be asking for an increase to the allegiance gained in the above scenario?

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

I’m still confused by what you’re asking for. Do you want increased rep when activating hourglass and pve’ing? As I pointed out in my post above, you already get allegiance when turning in hourglass with a faction treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded. After 15 minutes you can turn in your hourglass no matter what happens in between.

If you’re able to raise hourglass and pve without being attacked consistently (probably due to your region because you can’t on NA), then you’re already getting free allegiance without pvp.

So you must be asking for an increase to the allegiance gained in the above scenario?

Seems like you want a spreadsheet or something because I made my position pretty clear about it.
And no, you don't really get allegiance for HG for stashing loot. The loot reward is based on having a win while it is on board. That hasn't changed since HG was introduced. If it has Rare has been super quiet about that because the first thing I did with HG was PvE to level 5 and realize Im not being rewarded for the time I get my stash levels up and sailing around not getting into a battle.

Heres how it could work. Each stash level will incur a set allegiance xp reward. Loot that has been on a ship attributing the HG stash levels will be flagged and once used on a ship will no longer be able to increase any ships HG stash after being dropped on a deck. This will prevent cheesing and also prevent server take overs from handing off stolen loot. And I know what you're thinking, how does this Stash loot work for players invading a PvE ship? Well they could flag the loot from a ship that loses to only incur stash levels to the invading ship when the battle starts.

Handing in loot should basically work like an emissary flag. Stash level will incur a bonus to any loot handed into to the sovereigns/companies. The only real problem with this style is having another emissary flag on your ship. Bonuses for that should be disabled while HG representing Athena or Reaper are active. XP goes to the PvP trees and not the PvE trees (Reapers/Athena companies).

And of course, PvP continues as normal. If youre defending loot and win you get the bonus for the win/defend.

This idea means that players incurring risk flagging their ships for PvP while doing PvE can get a reward regardless if the system works or downtime's occur. This at least encourages and increases the HG pool of ships to dive to.

Simple enough for you?

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

I’m still confused by what you’re asking for. Do you want increased rep when activating hourglass and pve’ing? As I pointed out in my post above, you already get allegiance when turning in hourglass with a faction treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded. After 15 minutes you can turn in your hourglass no matter what happens in between.

If you’re able to raise hourglass and pve without being attacked consistently (probably due to your region because you can’t on NA), then you’re already getting free allegiance without pvp.

So you must be asking for an increase to the allegiance gained in the above scenario?

Seems like you want a spreadsheet or something because I made my position pretty clear about it.
And no, you don't really get allegiance for HG for stashing loot. The loot reward is based on having a win while it is on board. That hasn't changed since HG was introduced. If it has Rare has been super quiet about that because the first thing I did with HG was PvE to level 5 and realize Im not being rewarded for the time I get my stash levels up and sailing around not getting into a battle.

Heres how it could work. Each stash level will incur a set allegiance xp reward. Loot that has been on a ship attributing the HG stash levels will be flagged and once used on a ship will no longer be able to increase any ships HG stash after being dropped on a deck. This will prevent cheesing and also prevent server take overs from handing off stolen loot.

Handing in loot should basically work like an emissary flag. Stash level will incur a bonus to any loot handed into to the sovereigns/companies. The only real problem with this style is having another emissary flag on your ship. Bonuses for that should be disabled while HG representing Athena or Reaper are active. XP goes to the PvP trees and not the PvE trees (Reapers/Athena companies).

And of course, PvP continues as normal. If youre defending loot and win you get the bonus for taking on that risk.

This idea means that players incurring risk flagging their ships for PvP while doing PvE can get a reward regardless if the system works or downtime's occur. This at least encourages and increases the HG pool of ships to dive to.

Simple enough for you?

No, it isn’t simple enough just yet. Appreciate the unprovoked attitude, though.

Here’s why I don’t fully understand what you’re asking for:

An hourglass faction treasure trove turn-in ALREADY gives you allegiance even if you did NOT get invaded. In other words, it is completely possible and legal to raise hourglass, loot to the point where you get a faction treasure trove level 1 through 5, and “drop” hourglass at an outpost after 15 minutes (not possible until 15 minutes has passed) and receive allegiance in an amount relative to the treasure trove you accumulated.

IF you get invaded after raising hourglass, and you have a treasure trove, AND you win, you’ll get an increased amount of allegiance relative to your treasure trove. If you lose, the allegiance gained is the same as any loss.

The scenario you’re providing above sounds to me like you aren’t aware of the fact that turning in treasure troves without being invaded isn’t already possible.

To summarize: pirates can gain allegiance WITHOUT engaging in PvP IF they aren’t invaded within 15 minutes of raising hourglass, and they manage to make it to an outpost for the turn-in.

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

I’m still confused by what you’re asking for. Do you want increased rep when activating hourglass and pve’ing? As I pointed out in my post above, you already get allegiance when turning in hourglass with a faction treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded. After 15 minutes you can turn in your hourglass no matter what happens in between.

If you’re able to raise hourglass and pve without being attacked consistently (probably due to your region because you can’t on NA), then you’re already getting free allegiance without pvp.

So you must be asking for an increase to the allegiance gained in the above scenario?

Seems like you want a spreadsheet or something because I made my position pretty clear about it.
And no, you don't really get allegiance for HG for stashing loot. The loot reward is based on having a win while it is on board. That hasn't changed since HG was introduced. If it has Rare has been super quiet about that because the first thing I did with HG was PvE to level 5 and realize Im not being rewarded for the time I get my stash levels up and sailing around not getting into a battle.

Heres how it could work. Each stash level will incur a set allegiance xp reward. Loot that has been on a ship attributing the HG stash levels will be flagged and once used on a ship will no longer be able to increase any ships HG stash after being dropped on a deck. This will prevent cheesing and also prevent server take overs from handing off stolen loot.

Handing in loot should basically work like an emissary flag. Stash level will incur a bonus to any loot handed into to the sovereigns/companies. The only real problem with this style is having another emissary flag on your ship. Bonuses for that should be disabled while HG representing Athena or Reaper are active. XP goes to the PvP trees and not the PvE trees (Reapers/Athena companies).

And of course, PvP continues as normal. If youre defending loot and win you get the bonus for taking on that risk.

This idea means that players incurring risk flagging their ships for PvP while doing PvE can get a reward regardless if the system works or downtime's occur. This at least encourages and increases the HG pool of ships to dive to.

Simple enough for you?

No, it isn’t simple enough just yet. Appreciate the unprovoked attitude, though.

Here’s why I don’t fully understand what you’re asking for:

An hourglass faction treasure trove turn-in ALREADY gives you allegiance even if you did NOT get invaded. In other words, it is completely possible and legal to raise hourglass, loot to the point where you get a faction treasure trove level 1 through 5, and “drop” hourglass at an outpost after 15 minutes (not possible until 15 minutes has passed) and receive allegiance in an amount relative to the treasure trove you accumulated.

The scenario you’re providing above sounds to me like you aren’t aware of the fact that turning in treasure troves without being invaded isn’t already possible.

To summarize: pirates can gain allegiance WITHOUT engaging in PvP IF they aren’t invaded within 15 minutes of raising hourglass, and they manage to make it to an outpost for the turn-in.

Judging by your use of Caps lock, the provoked 'attitude' is completely warranted because you're saying it already exists...

But Ive already made it clear that it doesn't really exist.

Its like we're arguing about an equation where the sum is 0 and you're say nuh uhhh its 0.00012. And I'm like well your result is negligible and meaningless it might as well be zero.

If there is already an incentive people would be doing it.. They are not. Out of 100 drives I encountered 1 that was doing stashed loot...

The rest is sweats with the cosmetics already, or AFK people (cause the incentive for rep is much much greater than what your example is), or people looking to Dice play for the win...

Its boring and you know it. Thats the whole point of the OP's post. I simply proved the point that the incentive to PvE in HG just isn't there...

Quit trying to 'be right' otherwise don't tag me cause obviously you dont want to help the game out just your ego.

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@foambreaker said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@lord-spark-0 "...You should be rewarded when getting your stash up regardless if you get into a battle. ..."

So you want PvP rewards for PvE. No.

Also if they did this it would end the queue. The queue requires divers to work, it CANNOT work without divers.

If the reward for defending is increased no one will dive. The people will figure out that the defenders never have to PvP to get PvP rewards and that will be the end of it of the PvP aspect.

So these threads can go on and on and on and on and on.

But there is a technical problem which makes what you want literally impossible to implement. The fact that many posters don't "get" it, doesn't change that.

If you flag for PvP you're in the pool and at risk of losing that loot. Is it the players fault if nothing happened?
Thats taking on risk without a reward.. thus people don't really do loot stashes... because you can't wrap your brain around what incentive means. Its not worth it currently. Players that do stash loot have a chance of never having a match for whatever reason.

If there are people stashing loot.. there will be probably more people trying to dive and want to steal it. It would make things better..

If no one dives because defending pays more as OP is suggesting you are in the same pool as organic, 5 ships, same risk as those who don't even join.

It wouldn't be more rewarding because streaks would earn more rep and the incentive is to dive to find the PvE players. The point is to add to the pool of ships to dive to. Why are you arguing this basic point?

I’m still confused by what you’re asking for. Do you want increased rep when activating hourglass and pve’ing? As I pointed out in my post above, you already get allegiance when turning in hourglass with a faction treasure trove, even if you didn’t get invaded. After 15 minutes you can turn in your hourglass no matter what happens in between.

If you’re able to raise hourglass and pve without being attacked consistently (probably due to your region because you can’t on NA), then you’re already getting free allegiance without pvp.

So you must be asking for an increase to the allegiance gained in the above scenario?

Seems like you want a spreadsheet or something because I made my position pretty clear about it.
And no, you don't really get allegiance for HG for stashing loot. The loot reward is based on having a win while it is on board. That hasn't changed since HG was introduced. If it has Rare has been super quiet about that because the first thing I did with HG was PvE to level 5 and realize Im not being rewarded for the time I get my stash levels up and sailing around not getting into a battle.

Heres how it could work. Each stash level will incur a set allegiance xp reward. Loot that has been on a ship attributing the HG stash levels will be flagged and once used on a ship will no longer be able to increase any ships HG stash after being dropped on a deck. This will prevent cheesing and also prevent server take overs from handing off stolen loot.

Handing in loot should basically work like an emissary flag. Stash level will incur a bonus to any loot handed into to the sovereigns/companies. The only real problem with this style is having another emissary flag on your ship. Bonuses for that should be disabled while HG representing Athena or Reaper are active. XP goes to the PvP trees and not the PvE trees (Reapers/Athena companies).

And of course, PvP continues as normal. If youre defending loot and win you get the bonus for taking on that risk.

This idea means that players incurring risk flagging their ships for PvP while doing PvE can get a reward regardless if the system works or downtime's occur. This at least encourages and increases the HG pool of ships to dive to.

Simple enough for you?

No, it isn’t simple enough just yet. Appreciate the unprovoked attitude, though.

Here’s why I don’t fully understand what you’re asking for:

An hourglass faction treasure trove turn-in ALREADY gives you allegiance even if you did NOT get invaded. In other words, it is completely possible and legal to raise hourglass, loot to the point where you get a faction treasure trove level 1 through 5, and “drop” hourglass at an outpost after 15 minutes (not possible until 15 minutes has passed) and receive allegiance in an amount relative to the treasure trove you accumulated.

The scenario you’re providing above sounds to me like you aren’t aware of the fact that turning in treasure troves without being invaded isn’t already possible.

To summarize: pirates can gain allegiance WITHOUT engaging in PvP IF they aren’t invaded within 15 minutes of raising hourglass, and they manage to make it to an outpost for the turn-in.

Judging by your use of Caps lock, the provoked 'attitude' is completely warranted because you're saying it already exists...

But Ive already made it clear that it doesn't really exist.

Its like we're arguing about an equation where the sum is 0 and you're say nuh uhhh its 0.00012. And I'm like well your result is negligible and meaningless it might as well be zero.

If there is already an incentive people would be doing it.. They are not. Out of 100 drives I encountered 1 that was doing stashed loot...

The rest is sweats with the cosmetics already, or AFK people (cause the incentive for rep is much much greater than what your example is), or people looking to Dice play for the win...

Its boring and you know it. Thats the whole point of the OP's post. I simply proved the point that the incentive to PvE in HG just isn't there...

Quit trying to 'be right' otherwise don't tag me cause obviously you dont want to help the game out just your ego.

Look man, perhaps you’re worked up from your other conversations in this thread, but read back to my one other post on this thread before I spoke directly towards you and perhaps re-evaluate how you feel about me. I’m not your enemy, relax.

Maybe it’s just the way you articulated your post but to me you’re clearly stating that you weren’t aware of the fact that allegiance can be gained without PvP, if the hourglass participant is able to turn in their treasure trove after 15 minutes passes. Were you not saying that?

I agree that this method isn’t efficient if one’s only goal is to increase allegiance as quickly as possible. I agree because I’ve thoroughly tested it using countless hourglass matches. Treasure troves being less efficient doesn’t mean that they’re obsolete, though. I enjoyed using them to mix things up, I think most people approach hourglass as a grind to get a curse, much like everything else in this game, and for that reason they only see efficiency rather than considering any other appeal.

I’m not against the idea of making defending more appealing, but first I need to understand what you and the op are even asking for, because you both (based on your post) seem to not understand how defending works.

@d3adst1ck said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

@capt-greldik said in Make Hourglass defense for pve give allegiance:

If you lose, the allegiance gained is the same as any loss.

I think this is the part that is broken and results in no one bothering with loot stashes in Hourglass.

I think getting some loss allegiance to account for the treasure trove is reasonable. It probably shouldn’t be too much of a bump, otherwise the method might be considered op?