LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.

There are 5 factions about to jump to level 500 as the maximum number, with 2 additional already that go to 9999. All of these offer cosmetics, titles, commendations, gold, doubloons, and achievements for progressing through them. There isn’t “a lack of progression” anywhere, what it sounds like is your friends were too lazy to do any of that.

A stealth FoV increase request… Really?

Every player has base stats when we start our SoT career, the skill we pick up along the way is our own experiences. Giving buffs to those dedicated to play is a terrible idea and pay to win. Sorry, but Rare won’t go for that.

@tesiccl said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

There are 5 factions about to jump to level 500 as the maximum number, with 2 additional already that go to 9999. All of these offer cosmetics, titles, commendations, gold, doubloons, and achievements for progressing through them. There isn’t “a lack of progression” anywhere, what it sounds like is your friends were too lazy to do any of that.

They are not lazy, they just do not see any purpose in doing so. I already said that in the post, so you can read it, please. When someone has their dream cosmetics loadout, there is no need to get more cosmetics, titles, or even gold to buy new cosmetics, etc. You can actually have that before even going for your first adventure.

Increasing trading company levels to 500 is nice but for achievement hunters/completionists only.

@tesiccl said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

A stealth FoV increase request… Really?

Not sure if I understand this sentence, anyway those are just examples that could be possible. They are not any powerful, but still interesting to achieve and be eager for.

@tesiccl said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

Every player has base stats when we start our SoT career, the skill we pick up along the way is our own experiences. Giving buffs to those dedicated to play is a terrible idea and pay to win. Sorry, but Rare won’t go for that.

First, you are not Rare, you cannot speak for them. Second, rewarding someone for playing/doing is an essential thing not just in games, but in our lives. Giving someone cosmetics is a great reward, but many players treat that as a secondary thing. You usually do not start playing the game because of the cosmetics it offers, but mainly because of the mechanics and content the game can offer. And the game offers only progressing through cosmetics. Deadly spin.

I fully agree, the game cannot add any RPG-like stats, giving players benefits. The game is purely based on your skill which you can improve over time and I like that.

But it is still a game and it needs to appeal to players to stick around. They need to know why they are doing things in the game, and have a goal to progress towards. When someone already has dream cosmetics, there is no more goal to play, no need to do anything in the game.

When someone does not care about cosmetics at all, then there is no goal to do anything, not even start the game. This is the biggest issue of this game and I am not the only one who can actually see this.

@knurd9369 Yes sure. I play the game, because it is fun to sink other crews, get better in PvP, etc.
However, the PvE is so simple it cannot be fun in the long term and the reward from it gives me and my friends nothing and no reason to do it.

That's the view of many players out of the Family-Friendly bubble in the world of gaming.

If we sink someone, there is also no need to turn the loot in unless they want to fight back for it. ... because the gold is worthless in the game.
And that's the main point of this thread, to make gold worth getting.

@foambreaker It seems you are trying to be smart.
Maybe you could provide us with some tips on how to sell/convince other players into the game. They like the theme of the game, the mechanics, etc. but they cannot find any goal they can progress towards.

They can go to forts to get more gold, yea... but why? For what? cosmetics? it's not a reward, they can buy them in the Emporium.
They can go and steal other's loot instead. They get gold, but what to do now?

Tell me, what I could use to these players, to make them stick to the game instead of playing occasionally only.
How to make these players feel rewarded for playing the game? They do not need any more cosmetics, they do have them from Emporium already (if they even want any).

@foambreaker said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

@frixsik In tis game advantage cannot be earned. There is no "elite" class, we are all equal.

If the only thing your friends consider to be rewarding is advantages over others, then this is probably not the game for them.

They are enjoying improving themselves by playing the game. It is an essential thing as it is.

When you work, you get paid, you buy a house, you enjoy it, and you improve your skills as well.
When you do not work, you sit on a couch, you won't get anything.
It is a natural thing for people to get better.

By this saying, you want to enjoy your laziness and not let anyone grow. You can get better in the same way as others do. For those, who do not want to, they can use Safer Seas. Promoting laziness over making the game more appealing to more players, is very selfish thinking.

Also, as a manager of a product, you would fail by saying this. So, probably not so smart.

No matter what I do not want any huge advantages against other players (like higher weapon damage), but just slight minor benefits that could make gold worth getting and make players stick to the game and actual reason to do PvE.

While I would not mind and would actually enjoy getting perks as I progress, this is not how this game works. I still find things I have done for many years fun even if they gain me nothing anymore. Even still, there is plenty to do to keep you hooked on the game. Every encounter I have with other players has been different and memorable. I think just constantly adding in new content would be better for having more to do and more to explore.

@foambreaker I agree. I was meaning gaining nothing money/cosmetics wise.

@frixsik you had a lot to say so I’ll reply to the only relevant part. I may not be Rare, but knowing their vision for the game, seeing the responses from mods and Rare staff in the past, and playing almost daily for 5 years, I have a good grasp at what I’m talking about.

I'm honestly sorry you feel that way. Every player is different, and what might be "fun" for you, may not be for someone else. "Fun" is relative.

As far as earning abilities like to angle sails faster, or travel faster, I think it wouldn't be fair to those who don't yet have those abilities, trying to learn the game for themselves. Also, as someone who loves PvP, I don't want to win battles only because I had "help", or an advantage for my ship that my opponent didn't/doesn't have. I want to win on my own merit, and see for myself what practice, dedication and strategies get me.

As for "progression", there's many ways to progress in this game, however that's up to the individual. When I was new, I too wanted just the cosmetics, until I decided I wanted to get better at PvP. Currently, I have all the cosmetics, 99% commendations completed, and more gold than I need. Having all that still doesn't deter me from logging in each day and having an enjoyable evening with my friends/crew, as we love pvp, meeting more amazing players, and having hilarious moments we still talk about months later.

The game is what you make of it. What that is, is up to you.

@frixsik God no. stats that make long time players more powerful just sounds bad.

sincerely a 5k hours player

due to the lack of progression in this game.

So they completed all Factions? Collected all items and cosmetics, all achievements and commendations?

There is no reason to play this game

Being a Pirate is a good one. Role Playing. Exploring the Lore of the game. Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone to do things you normally wouldnt.

there are not many reasons to stay playing the game in the long term at this moment.

Depends on the player. That really it. If you cant find a goal or create one, that is on you.

Comes down to the Player and how they go about it.

@frixsik

This feels like the ol' TF2 Item Sets buff all over again.

but honestly, I feel like this suggestion might harm the overall experience of Sea of Thieves.

This would work if it is implemented in a game that is purely PvE like "Remnant" where there's an entire subsection for giving small upgrades.

but Sea of thieves is a PvPvE game. having permanent buffs can break the balance of combat and it will end up having people complain that they only lose because the other just have more advantage in upgrades.

The only exception that could ever have this suggestion to work is if the game has a separate co-op only game mode where having perk upgrades can be balanced with the enemy also getting slowly stronger.

Another option rather than having a permanent buff can be a temporary buff, like having special cannonballs that apply unique effect when it hits, or having food that gives you regeneration while they are not taking damage. anything that will only persist for that game session would be the more balanced approach.

And finally, onto the discussion about cosmetics:

to be honest, unless you are really into collecting rare things, most cosmetics from the gold shop just looks samey and feels almost no difference changing from one to another, other than the color being different.

barring certain cosmetics such as the skeleton curse or the Soulflame set, the ones that were eye catching and unique are usually sold in this game's premium shop - the Pirate Emporium with the only requirement of obtaining them being that you have some real money to spend.

This makes it so that collecting cosmetics on the most part being largely redundant. Why level up on the game when you can just use the fancy sets you can buy in the Pirate Emporium?

And we have not even discuss about the ship cosmetics either. Ship customizations are even more limited than clothing sets. almost all sails have the same square feature with nothing to break the overall shape with a random image slapped on it, and hulls are just a simple ship recolor, and most doesn't even bother changing the insides.

Why don't we have more unique ships like the ship we always end up in when we were sent into the ferry of the damned? give something unique like floating masts, different lanterns, more broken-down ship, and then plop it into a rather difficult commendations?

The progression system in this game is cosmetics. There are lots of games that the entire progression system is cosmetics. Some people don’t like that type of progression system, so then games based on this system are not for them. I don’t like multiplayer games that progression systems are upgrades, so I don’t play those games. I don’t request they change their game for me.

Not every single game is supposed to be for every single person. You either like what the game offers, or you don’t. There’s reasons there are hundreds and thousands of games out there, something for everyone, just gotta keep looking.

Some suggestions exist andnfitninti a game's purpose and would be an improvement. Other suggestions would fundamentally change a game and break what it is. These fall in the the latter camp.

Let me try putting some eorsoectivr here with an analogy. One if my other hobbies is boardgaming/tabletop gaming.

Some games, like Sea of Thieves, offer no progression beyond skill. Or luck. Or both. Chess is pure skill. There is no "in game" progression, and yet it is a game that has survived centuries with depth and nuance. Other players bounce off of chess and just don't enjoy it. But you don't try to change chess to appeal to the player. You find a game that fits them.

Pandemic fundamentally shifted boardgaming as one of the first fully cooperative games that hit mainstream instead of kids or niche markets. No progression. Also not pure skill. The card deck adds an element of luck. But you don't try to make Pandemic play like chess or chess like Pandemic. PvP vs PvE, if you will. Pandemic is great for players that don't like confrontation.

Then there are campaign-style games. They have progression within the limits of the game. Gloomhaven is more skill based and was popular enough to get a spin-off release in Target.

And then there are semi-coop games like Nemesis that fit the mold of PvEvP. And I know people that love Nemesis (popular enough to have two sequels) and people that don't.

But I don't try to get people to play boardgames that don't appeal to them. Part of choosing to be in the hobby is learning what works in certain gaming groups and what doesn't, and while introducing something new can broaden horizons, other things will simply be unfun for people.

Sea of Thieves is a game that evolved and is constantly working to bring in new players. But it also has an identity and some suggestions that would fundamentally alter the game's DNA would do more harm than good. It would not bring in enough new players to offset the damage it'd do to the existing base.

Sometimes. You just have to decide if a game is for you or not.

@strangeness

I truly love this explanation, bravo.

This sounds entirely like a problem of just not knowing what the game you bought was about, rather than an issue of the game its self.

@strangeness Thank you for your opinion. Well written.

Also, you are probably the only contributor here with no biased view, being no rude/crying Family-Friendly player ...
This is the objective point of view, this discussion should aim for. I like it and I respect that. Thank you.

Additionally, I added a statement I forgot yesterday.

The best progression for me and actually all players I know is the goal to buy Dark Adventurer sails (even after a recent change).
It gives you a very slight advantage (or you might just think it is), but still, it is an improvement over time that the game offers to you by playing it. It was the most enjoyable time that every day me or other player players could not go to sleep and we all just wanted to play the game to work towards the goal, towards the improvement that moves us to higher "levels".

Progression towards completing all commendations, max. level trading companies etc. well cool, but it's not progress at all, there is no reason to do so if the reward is worthless for you.

I like SoT cause instead of improving your "skills" in-game to be good, you improve your actual skills in real life by playing the game, making you good.

@knurd9369 said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

@frixsik said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

But it is still a game and it needs to appeal to players to stick around. They need to know why they are doing things in the game, and have a goal to progress towards. When someone already has dream cosmetics, there is no more goal to play, no need to do anything in the game.

How about just playing the game because it's fun to play?

I'm firmly against giving any earned advantages to players, even minor ones. As soon as you do that, particular sets will become the meta to give maximum advantage.

I'm for no bonuses to performance in game, if due to bling. I've seen it work in pvp of other differently built games but here it would be a mess. Still the OP has a bit of a point.

The game has much to offer if you have the time and can tough out the learning curve. Many games have some form of early, and rapid positive reinforcement to help set the hook, metaphorically. Here that reinforcement is a bit spotty, and a new player may not get enough of it to see the larger prize further on. I think there could be improvement but I'm not sure what would work better.

So I'm not offering a solution, but I'd encourage all to give this some fair consideration.

@foambreaker said in LACK OF PROGRESSION - 7 out of 10 my friends don't play the game because of it.:

tl;dr "I don't like being on an equal footing with others, I want to have an advantage"

That isn't what I read at all. OP's suggestions aren't the fixes I'd support, but there is room for improvement. Any progression perk I'd lean into would be like the loot stash in the tutorial, and would be something you could do as well, though to old timers it would be almost nothing, and so hardly an advantage at all.

It could be bits of a treasure map bound to that player, or some other cheap easy thing that lets the player feel like they are getting somewhere. The mission(s) would be in the world, short sweet and easy, and every player gets to do it once. You would get your share also.