spawning

  • the pvp combat is so tiresome and frankly unfun, i don't mean ship combat, that's mostly fine. im talking about the incessant unabated boarding people can do. sending someone to the ferry of the damned is hardly a set back especially when you are dealing with a crew of 3+ people. unless you cou-de-grace them simultaneously, you aren't afforded any breathing room from their constant boarding antics.

    now, i don't mind when people board with the intent to actually steal or cause my ship to sink. WHAT I DO MIND is people camping a ship with the soul purpose of griefing, to spawn kill you endlessly til you scuttle. scuttling is a terrible "solution" to this problem. it would be like telling someone to hit the suicide button in their menu on a shooter like halo or battlefield because someone is BMing (bad manner) by camping a spawn simply "because they can." Scuttling is a bandaid and no real solution. it's an idiotic "solution" i might as well quit your terrible game if that is the kind of "solution" you are offering without entertaining any other idea into the mix. i have been spawn camped enough times even when they have gotten my loot and have technically won that it is outrageous, the community won't fix itself so im asking you to fix your game to fix this terrible community. i have had people deliberately board up holes in my ship so they can continue spawn camping my ship, it's ridiculous. if scuttling or scuttling to a new sea is the solution. i'll just play a better, less flawed game, because this is a glaring flaw.

    scuttling is an unstuck tool for your ship no different than a "suicide/respawn" button that exists in a fair few games menus for the soul purpose of not preventing griefing but removing your character from an immobile or "stuck" position, and not meant to just "end" an undesirable encounter. it is only treated as an "end" to an undesirable encounter because you all have been high on the idea of "preserving the game as intended" which is a fantasy and a fallacy.

    in all my years of gaming, i have never heard of deliberate spawn camping with the intention of griefing to being anything other than abhorrent. most games have "spawn protection" or "base protection" either ejecting, debuffing, or otherwise punishing people engaging in such behaviour. games that forgoe these protection usually see a fall in their player base some years down the line before it either gets remedied or the player base slowly vaporizes as people decide they have had enough.

    having to respawn and constantly deal with a full boarding crew that has no intent of sinking you or even stealing your stuff is nothing but frustrating. and a gameplay loop that needs remedied lest i and other people like me who have been sick of this terrible game design, decide to jump ship to any other game that is willing to offer more fun than this community currently does.

    so here is my idea: if an opposing crew member has died on your ship, they cannot touch your ladder ropes for 5 minutes or otherwise get on your deck by other means. if they cannon launch to your deck, they are instantly met with a loading screen back to their ship, and will repeatedly be met with a loading screen with repeated attempts until the timer is finished. your boarding has failed and now you have to wait before you can attempt a board again.
    with this solution, people could still camp with the purpose of sinking you, but people with the purpose for griefing would be severely hampered from being able to grief as they will eventually be killed by the defending crew by thinking they have infinite time to just camp someone for their own amusement.

    another solution i have seen spitballed, and i actually quite like it more than the one i proposed above, because people will still be able to board and won't cry and moan about a lockout.

    stacking debuff on an invader/invaders for repeatedly killing enemy crew members aboard their ship, with a 5 minute cooldown before the debuff bleeds off.

    for example

    incur 3+ kills on a solo player, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 3, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    incur 5+ kills on a duo crew, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 5, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    incur 7+ kills on a trio crew, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 7, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    and so on, im sure you get the idea, and that's just one way to do it, it could be done a number of different ways than i layed out hear. it wouldn't stop people from being piratey and it wouldn't allow bad faith players to keep a near indefinite advantage just because ships have 2 or 3 very predictable spawn locations they can camp.

    spawn protection should be a thing because people spawning in have to gain their bearings again after they come back from the beyond, they have to figure out again where the enemy is and they have to deal with their machines load time, they might load in server side before their client shows them loaded in, so after they load in they may see themselves in the down state ready for the ferry again BEFORE THEY EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO PUT AN INPUT IN TO TRY AND DODGE. there is nothing fun or fair about that for the one spawning and is bad sportsmanship for the one putting the spawner down like ol' yeller. that type of gameplay is only fun for the sadistic an unimaginative.

  • 22
    Posts
    13.3k
    Views
  • @vorcaer said in spawning:

    the pvp combat is so tiresome and frankly unfun, i don't mean ship combat, that's mostly fine. im talking about the incessant unabated boarding people can do. sending someone to the ferry of the damned is hardly a set back especially when you are dealing with a crew of 3+ people. unless you cou-de-grace them simultaneously, you aren't afforded any breathing room from their constant boarding antics.

    now, i don't mind when people board with the intent to actually steal or cause my ship to sink. WHAT I DO MIND is people camping a ship with the soul purpose of griefing, to spawn kill you endlessly til you scuttle. scuttling is a terrible "solution" to this problem. it would be like telling someone to hit the suicide button in their menu on a shooter like halo or battlefield because someone is BMing (bad manner) by camping a spawn simply "because they can." Scuttling is a bandaid and no real solution. it's an idiotic "solution" i might as well quit your terrible game if that is the kind of "solution" you are offering without entertaining any other idea into the mix. i have been spawn camped enough times even when they have gotten my loot and have technically won that it is outrageous, the community won't fix itself so im asking you to fix your game to fix this terrible community. i have had people deliberately board up holes in my ship so they can continue spawn camping my ship, it's ridiculous. if scuttling or scuttling to a new sea is the solution. i'll just play a better, less flawed game, because this is a glaring flaw.

    scuttling is an unstuck tool for your ship no different than a "suicide/respawn" button that exists in a fair few games menus for the soul purpose of not preventing griefing but removing your character from an immobile or "stuck" position, and not meant to just "end" an undesirable encounter. it is only treated as an "end" to an undesirable encounter because you all have been high on the idea of "preserving the game as intended" which is a fantasy and a fallacy.

    in all my years of gaming, i have never heard of deliberate spawn camping with the intention of griefing to being anything other than abhorrent. most games have "spawn protection" or "base protection" either ejecting, debuffing, or otherwise punishing people engaging in such behaviour. games that forgoe these protection usually see a fall in their player base some years down the line before it either gets remedied or the player base slowly vaporizes as people decide they have had enough.

    having to respawn and constantly deal with a full boarding crew that has no intent of sinking you or even stealing your stuff is nothing but frustrating. and a gameplay loop that needs remedied lest i and other people like me who have been sick of this terrible game design, decide to jump ship to any other game that is willing to offer more fun than this community currently does.

    so here is my idea: if an opposing crew member has died on your ship, they cannot touch your ladder ropes for 5 minutes or otherwise get on your deck by other means. if they cannon launch to your deck, they are instantly met with a loading screen back to their ship, and will repeatedly be met with a loading screen with repeated attempts until the timer is finished. your boarding has failed and now you have to wait before you can attempt a board again.
    with this solution, people could still camp with the purpose of sinking you, but people with the purpose for griefing would be severely hampered from being able to grief as they will eventually be killed by the defending crew by thinking they have infinite time to just camp someone for their own amusement.

    another solution i have seen spitballed, and i actually quite like it more than the one i proposed above, because people will still be able to board and won't cry and moan about a lockout.

    stacking debuff on an invader/invaders for repeatedly killing enemy crew members aboard their ship, with a 5 minute cooldown before the debuff bleeds off.

    for example

    incur 3+ kills on a solo player, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 3, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    incur 5+ kills on a duo crew, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 5, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    incur 7+ kills on a trio crew, the invaders take 10%-15% more damage per death incurred after the first 7, from any damage source coming from the crew they are invading

    and so on, im sure you get the idea, and that's just one way to do it, it could be done a number of different ways than i layed out hear. it wouldn't stop people from being piratey and it wouldn't allow bad faith players to keep a near indefinite advantage just because ships have 2 or 3 very predictable spawn locations they can camp.

    spawn protection should be a thing because people spawning in have to gain their bearings again after they come back from the beyond, they have to figure out again where the enemy is and they have to deal with their machines load time, they might load in server side before their client shows them loaded in, so after they load in they may see themselves in the down state ready for the ferry again BEFORE THEY EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO PUT AN INPUT IN TO TRY AND DODGE. there is nothing fun or fair about that for the one spawning and is bad sportsmanship for the one putting the spawner down like ol' yeller. that type of gameplay is only fun for the sadistic an unimaginative.

    The behavior you just described is against the rules. Spawncamping for the purpose of only killing, but not sinking a crew is reportable. So I guess in reality, Rare already HAS done something about it by making it against the ToS.

    Also, one thing I’ve noticed in this game is that pirates often have a LOT to say to their attackers while being attacked, and it’s hardly ever nice. Sometimes words lead to actions, even actions against the rules.

  • i mean just scuttle and handle it or play a different game then. all your solutions make 0 sense and they just help your purpose, not the balance of this game. reviving on enemy ship was partched and the scuttle/change server option was added as a solution. you just cannot nerf boarding in any way cause good crews will become unsinkable.

    unless you totally outclass your opponents there is no way you gonna win 1v3 in this game. and ppl have to accept it. go on discords. spam blunderbombs on ladders. be as annoying as possible but once your boarded and anchored its done. just scuttle and dont give them the joy of camping you forever.

  • til you scuttle. scuttling is a terrible

    That the way of life. Your choice to suffer or end it on your own terms

  • Save the footage of them spawn camping you, scuttle, then report the players directly to Rare here. It gets you out of the spawn camping and it’s the honourable way to sink since you’ve lost the fight anyway.

  • and yet none of the above replies have anything constructive to say, how predictable.

    reporting is a joke, rare won't do anything, and i don't have the space on my computer to be constantly recording just in case some griefers come along.

    and of course those saying "just scuttle" didn't even finish reading the whole post WHOOSH

  • @vorcaer

    What you are describing is griefing really, but since you mention spawn killing post stealing your loot in i the fashion you did, it seems like your enemies might still have a reason to be around. Your ship can be leeched for supplies and they may want to keep you from preventing a smooth transfer.

    If you dont see a reason for them to stay around, its grief.

    In a certain skill range, i would say its valid to kill someone constanly to sink them. There comes a point when a ship will stay afloat no matter what unless players onboard are killed(thinking about constant reset fights). The meta then becomes all boarding, and put fire to ship to create a hole, protect it and sink you slow.

    Also if you think you have lost, scuttle is greatly encouraged. I know its terrible, but let me tell you that there are fights where loot from sunken ships sink as you fight your enemy. Both knows they cant pick it up because both is so good and constantly ready to catch you off guard. So one gives in and lets the other one loot it, cause if not it would be a loss loss. Thats worse than a scuttle.

  • you are off again, i did read your whole post. your solutions just dont make any sense, and screwing with the balance of the game is way more important than people beeing spawncamped once every year.

    this has been an issue and rare made changes to address this issue, its okay now.

  • I'd personally belay that solution; easily understandable features is something SoT does very well so adding debuffs of X percent for Y reason after Z times is just too much.

    Don't forget the in-game tutorials for scuttling only first appear on your first trip to the ferry by another pirate aboard your ship so I have to disagree with you that scuttling is only for unstucking your ship.

  • @wujuwarrior1375 i can guarantee you they weren't there for our supplies, they were there specifically to grief, saying all kinds of offensive stuff in voice chat and just camp killing with no purprose to leech supplies or to sink our ship, the only purpose they ahd was to create frustrating gameplay for their victims. it's like half the crew's i encounter any more and makes me actively avoid any PvP if it can be helped because it literally is designed to suck the fun piratey experience out of the game.

    if a gameplay loop has a legitimate tactical use (camping for the purpose of ENDING THE FIGHT) but that same gameplay loop has equal opportunity for griefing, it is flawed and needs remedied in such a way as to discourage or outright prevent the griefing option from being a possibility, because relying on the "god nature" of your fellow community members is just not an option. relying on bans is also not an option when Rare/Microsoft already have their hands full with an even worse exploit through Cheaters. i would rather they focus on beating back cheaters than griefers, when griefers can be dealt with in a more efficient manner than taking up their staff passively through ban reports.

  • @vorcaer

    and yet none of the above replies have anything constructive to say, how predictable.

    What’s been replied has been extremely constructive, you just don’t like reading it.

    Reporting is a joke, rare won't do anything, and i don't have the space on my computer to be constantly recording just in case some griefers come along.

    Reporting to Rare on here directly isn’t a joke. They take every report seriously, and as long as your footage backs up your complaint, you’ll get a good outcome. The support staff who deal with the reports are perfectly capable of dealing with multiple reports at once, so don’t you worry for them about reporting cheaters and griefers at the same time.
    You don’t need to be constantly recording either, Xbox toolbar offers a 30 second capture option to grab the footage for you. When you’re reporting to Rare, you don’t need to upload the footage directly, it can be sent as a link to the footage instead. From OneDrive for example.

    and of course those saying "just scuttle" didn't even finish reading the whole post WHOOSH

    The solution that Rare offer is there, if you choose not to use it then you can’t moan that other players are being mean.

  • @tesiccl nothing constuctive found here, [mod edit]

  • @vorcaer Because you want to change the whole PvP meta over something that isn't a problem

  • We sank a crew collecting the second part of the Skull of Siren song yesterday.

    We collected the resources from their barrels and set off to turn in the skull, by this time they were right behind us.
    Two of us jumped off and boarded them. We managed to keep them tied up for long enough to get us the distance we needed to allow us to hand in the skull unopposed.

    From the other crews point of view it may have looked like spawn camping, from our point of view we were creating enough chaos to allow us to escape with the skull.

    It is all about perspective.

  • @vorcaer no I won’t, because even that reply was full of useful feedback to help your experience and you’re spitting in my face. Treat your fellow forum users with a bit more respect, because it’s noticed by everyone.

  • @vorcaer Your post has been edited as it goes against the Forum Rules and Pirate Code.

    ALWAYS:

    Be courteous. Don’t insult players you don’t know. If humour is the intent, remember that this can be lost or misinterpreted online, and words can very easily offend. Be mindful of what you’re saying and if someone asks a question, see if you can help them out as you’d appreciate being helped out yourself if the roles were reversed.

    Name calling, personal attacks and using derogatory language against Community Members, Rare Employees, Global Moderators or Deckhands is not acceptable. Using such language will result in a warning, then temporary ban from the Forums and a final warning. If the action is persistent or increasingly aggressive, a permanent ban from the Forums will be issued.

    Please read and abide by the Forum Rules and Pirate Code in future.


    If you believe a player has been toxic in the game or suspect foul-play, you can report them to Xbox Live here. You can also submit a support ticket via Rare Player Support.

    Thank you.

  • im also unsure abou what spawncamping rly is, if i fight a solo and he has a tier1 middeck hole, and keeps bucketing when he spawns from the ferry the situation will never end. some people may consider this spawncamping but i dont think it is. ofc it looks dumb and griefy.

    if i take a bucket just before he sinks to check his barrels.

    i have to be honest, since the launch of season8 ive been spawncamped once and it was a quite friendly interaction. it was waaaay more common before season 8.

  • @locke5474677 said in spawning:

    im also unsure abou what spawncamping rly is, if i fight a solo and he has a tier1 middeck hole, and keeps bucketing when he spawns from the ferry the situation will never end. some people may consider this spawncamping but i dont think it is. ofc it looks dumb and griefy.

    if i take a bucket just before he sinks to check his barrels.

    i have to be honest, since the launch of season8 ive been spawncamped once and it was a quite friendly interaction. it was waaaay more common before season 8.

    im also unsure abou what spawncamping rly is

    Spawncamping would be if I boarded your ship, killed you, then patched your ship so it could not sink, and never took any of your treasure (if you had any) or food/wood/cannonballs (If you had any).
    At that point, I am not attempting to do anything that benefits me in-game. All I am doing is killing you repeatedly, which is seen as griefing and spawncamping.

  • yeah but where is the line? patching is not okay? bucketing is? there is just a lot of grey area.

  • @locke5474677 said in spawning:

    yeah but where is the line? patching is not okay? bucketing is? there is just a lot of grey area.

    Not really.
    If you board someone's ship and don't do a single 'objective' that boarding entails (Stealing from them, sinking them, or otherwise preventing them from sailing away/towards your own ship); You are griefing/spawncamping.

    Boarding someone and preventing them from sinking, just so you can keep killing them, is pretty clearly an attempt to ruin their fun.

  • @guildar9194

    preventing the from sinking is a good guideline, thx

  • @wujuwarrior1375

    Gotcha, late reply.

    Wish you the best of luck here. Cant think of any change to fix this. Boarding on cooldown would be bad for the reasons i mentioned in previous post++. Mabye the could add an autoscuttle into server change, keep voyage going if thats the concern. Not many options to deal with the boastful. Human behavior often triumphs changes by developers, chat words being a good example. For examplie you can ban "diff", and the community will simply go "mid". Removing one tool of grief will be succeded by a new method.

    There is also safer seas, but i assume you are in for the glory.

22
Posts
13.3k
Views
15 out of 22