Lazybeard - Too Short

It’s about this time one must act like an adult and manage time.

Turn off the game and settle all issues and problems outside in the real world before diving back into gaming reality.

Or use some tricks to extend the timer. Emote, hold button down and spin.

I agree with it needing to be extended, not indefinitely but another 5 wouldn’t hurt

If your playing controller just lay something on the stick so you afk spin and if you play keyboard just put something on the W key so you move forward afk

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

( ...)
3. Turn on auto clicker
( ... )
It's also not bannable as you eventually can get kicked.

It's using something to circumvent a game mechanic - doesn't matter if it does it for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

Only thing that's bannable like this is something like a macro I think.

Usage of 3rd party software would be the criterion. I wouldn't risk my pirate ... also not very nice to give advice when you're not sure that might people get (red?) bearded.

@lem0n-curry
Rare states in their code and conduct: ''We have a zero tolerance approach to any form of in-game hacking or cheating, and transgression can result in a permanent ban. Data-mined content is also prohibited from our channels as it can ruin future game updates for players who have no wish to be exposed to incomplete or out-of-context information. Activities such as teaming or boosting to gain an advantage over other players in competitive game modes may also result in enforcement action.''

Which is the closest article in their code of conduct that I could find that might relate to the topic of auto clickers. Nothing in that paragraph mentions anything about exploiting game mechanics. The only sentence in that paragraph that comes close to talking about the same thing is: ''We have a zero tolerance approach to any form of in-game hacking or cheating'' and I don't know about you but if i saw someone afk on a boat with an auto clicker on, hacker isn't the word that would pop into my mind.
An auto clicker to delay being afk kicked is not a hack,cheat nor does it give any advantage over any other player. A hacker or cheater is someone who uses a software to physically change the programming of the game to give themselves an advantage over other players. An auto clicker I don't think falls under the same category.

But let's say you're right for arguments sake. Say that using third party software like auto clickers is bannable. Does that also mean that players who turn their controllers upside down to delay it for 5 -10 more mins are also deserving of getting banned? Cause as you said it doesn't matter if it's for 5 mins or 5 hours, it's the fact it's something that is circumventing a game mechanic which is the issue. Even though in their code of conduct there's no mention of players who circumvent game mechanics are liable to being banned. You see the problem lies in the grey zone cause I personally believe that Rare's code of conduct isn't written very well. It's not specific enough and in all honesty needs a massive revamp to tackle these grey zones.

Lastly, the only reason I gave @DaylarFarshot1 a warning on using auto clickers is because I know macros unlike auto clickers are bannable (for some reason even though again not stated in the code of conduct whatsoever), meaning that Rare seem to dislike certain actions not stated in their code of conduct. Also I suggested he use auto clickers cause...
A. I know tonnes of people who've been using them for years and they haven't been banned whereas I know people who have used macros and have gotten banned.
B. Sounds like he is quite busy in real life being the owner of many dogs and thought an auto clicker might help him.
And finally
C. From the sounds of it he mostly only cares about being lazybearded cause he solo sloops since his ship is gone after being lazybearded, meaning if he uses an auto clicker he won't be annoying any of his crewmates by bring afk because he doesn't have any.

Anyway sorry for the word wall. Went into a bit of detail.

Its difficult, yeah it feels short even for toilet break etc, but the balancing factor is how long it takes an idle crewmate to leave to allow you to get someone else in. Perhaps have extended timer for solo but keep shorter for crew as you can always be reinvited

@icanttiemyshoe2
Macros are bannable and auto clickers aren't?
I don't see how Rare would be a able to tell the two apart in this scenario. What difference is there between an auto clicker that clicks once every 10 seconds and a macro that's set to also repeat that very same action every 10 seconds?

Additionally even if this

We have a zero tolerance approach to any form of in-game hacking or cheating, and transgression can result in a permanent ban. Data-mined content is also prohibited from our channels as it can ruin future game updates for players who have no wish to be exposed to incomplete or out-of-context information. Activities such as teaming or boosting to gain an advantage over other players in competitive game modes may also result in enforcement action.

In your eyes doesn't include using macros or auto clickers
I think the xbox community standards (that you've also agreed to follow) are a bit clearer here:

For example, don't:

• Use specialised software to gain unfair advantage over other players

I think both auto clickers and macros can easily fall under "specialized software used to gain an advantage" - even if that advantage is only not getting kicked after 10 minutes of being afk.

I personally would stay away from both auto clickers and macros.

@icanttiemyshoe2 naw, ban them all. Auto clickers and controller flippers. Exploiting game mechanics is getting old. If you're going afk just leave for a bit and rejoin... especially on open crews.

@robogames05
No finish the whole quote it says ''use specialized software to gain an advantage over other players'' in what way does using an auto clicker in SoT give you an advantage over other players?

@captain-fob4141
Ok that's you're opinion and if that is also Rare's opinion they should also state it in their code of conduct. There's no mention at all of exploiting game mechanics being bannable and auto clickers/macros to avoid afk timer certainly don't fall under the category of hacks. So what is Rare's official stance on them? I couldn't tell you.

@icanttiemyshoe2 if it isn't an unfair advantage, then it isn't worth doing. It is not within the intended mechanics of the game to be able to set your controller down/walk away for longer than the afk timer and not be kicked from the game. You are advocating to work around the intended mechanic and are using third party software to do so.

If I personally were rare I would ban you based on the post alone.

@captain-fob4141
Hahahahahahaha

Firstly, you said ''if it isn't an unfair advantage, then it isn't worth doing'' so in your mind an 'exploit' is only worth doing if it DOES give you an unfair advantage? I'm pretty sure some hackers have the same mentality as you.

Secondly, tonnes of things in this game were not intended game mechanics - sword lunging, grate bucketing, keg wall the list goes on but they're now integral parts of the game, so don't throw the whole spiel of ''it's not intended'' cause it doesn't hold water. You know what developers of games do when an unintended feature appears in their game? They patch it out. If any exploit in games is remedied by ''oh no don't do this exploit or we'll ban you'' is just lazy developing, especially if said exploit isn't even prohibited in the games own rules.

And finally thirdly, I think if you or Rare would ban me from a game I have personally spent my own money on over having a discussion over using auto clickers with absolutely no proof of I myself using them at all is a bit authoritarian. Would you not agree?

@captain-fob4141 right, but you're not talking about a bug, you're talking about using 3rd party software to get an advantage in game.

I'm glad you agree that you are gaining an unfair advantage and are using the same mentality of cheaters.

You are admiting to and advocating for the use of a third party software in order to gain an unfair advantage over other players.... yes I would ban you. No you're not entitled to cheating in a game even if you spent money on it. If you don't want to be banned, don't cheat.

@captain-fob4141 perhaps a bit ban happy there, number of times I go to ferry to see someone spinning on the spot afk. I'm def not reporting them 😅

@captain-fob4141
Never said using an auto clicker gives you an unfair advantage so I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth that didn't come from my mouth thank you. Also never said I have the mentality of cheaters, in fact if you could read I actually said that about you (I was making a joke cause you used double negatives).
Also please cite where i admitted to using a third party software to gain an advantage over other players? I hope you're not talking about auto clicker cause in no way is that similar to hacking. One gives you an overwhelmingly unfair advantage over other players and the other stops you from getting kicked whilst you go to the toilet... hardly comparable are they? And if you are talking about auto clicker please also cite where I admitted to using auto clicker? Cause I don't remember saying it. Also I don't plan on getting banned which is one of the reasons (among many others) why I don't.
Thanks.

@hiradc yeah, probably. But I'd rather no cheat and exploits than people abusing the system because they think rules don't or shouldn't apply to them.

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@robogames05
No finish the whole quote it says ''use specialized software to gain an advantage over other players'' in what way does using an auto clicker in SoT give you an advantage over other players?

I put the full quote right there and didn't see it necessary to repeat the less important parts.

What advantage does it give you? Well you don't kicked and people that don't use it do get kicked. Is that not an advantage?
It isn't a significant advantage but it is an advantage nonetheless.

@icanttiemyshoe2 if you don't support the use of an autoclicker or condone it, as it is a third party software being used to interact with the game, then you should delete the post advocating for its use.

You seem to be incredibly defensive about the topic for someone now back pedaling regarding its use.

The advantage is not having to spend time relogging into the game and maintaining your inventory. If you didn't think it was an advantage you wouldn't use it. It's one thing to ask for a longer timer, it's another use out of game software to give yourself a longer timer.

Similar to aimbot: complaining about missing due to in game mechanics and using 3rd party software to make sure you always hit.

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@captain-fob4141
Ok that's you're opinion and if that is also Rare's opinion they should also state it in their code of conduct. There's no mention at all of exploiting game mechanics being bannable and auto clickers/macros to avoid afk timer certainly don't fall under the category of hacks. So what is Rare's official stance on them? I couldn't tell you.

Okay this one I'm not so sure about, but I'm fairly certain if you have someone in an open crew that is just afk spinning with controller for hours on end leaching off of what the rest of the crew is doing you can report this person and they can get banned for that. At least historically I have heard from other people that bans have been dealt out for that - I personally don't play open crew.

@robogames05
Less important parts? No you cut out the part that doesn't fit your argument, because ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage'' has a different meaning to ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage over other players''.

There are tonnes of things in this game that give you advantages over other players. Take the most basic exploit for example - sword lunging. I bet if no one told you to block before sword lunging it would've taken you WAY longer to figure it out and would you not agree that someone who does know how to sword lunge has an advantage over someone who doesn't? And no where in the tutorial or in the base game does Rare tell you to do this. So how were you supposed to figure it out? And I reckon that sword lunging gives WAY more of an advantage over other players than an auto clicker does. Also auto clickers are something anyone can have so it's not as if it's not accessible by everyone? So what's the difference? The fact it's third party? Ok then by that logic turning your controller upside down is ok then? You see the double standard i'm trying to get you guys to understand?

@icanttiemyshoe2
You are comparing in game exploits to the use of third party softwares. It's one thing to exploit bugs it's another thing to use somthing nonative to the game in order to gain an advantage.

@captain-fob4141 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2 if you don't support the use of an autoclicker or condone it, as it is a third party software being used to interact with the game, then you should delete the post advocating for its use.

You seem to be incredibly defensive about the topic for someone now back pedaling regarding its use.

The advantage is not having to spend time relogging into the game and maintaining your inventory. If you didn't think it was an advantage you wouldn't use it. It's one thing to ask for a longer timer, it's another use out of game software to give yourself a longer timer.

Similar to aimbot: complaining about missing due to in game mechanics and using 3rd party software to make sure you always hit.

I never said I condone the use of auto clicker nor did I say I don't condone the use of auto clicker. I simply just said it's something OP could do if he's having issues losing his ship when coming back from taking his dogs out.

Also for the millionth time I never said auto clicker wasn't an advantage I said it's not an advantage OVER OTHER PLAYERS. And come on please tell me you're not comparing a tool some people use to delay the afk timer a bit so they can go take a leak or whatever, to people who literally ruin other peoples experience of the game by aimbotting, tp kegs, speed hacking and all sorts of other things that ruin the game. They're hardly even remotely the same thing.

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@robogames05
Less important parts? No you cut out the part that doesn't fit your argument, because ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage'' has a different meaning to ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage over other players''.

There are tonnes of things in this game that give you advantages over other players. Take the most basic exploit for example - sword lunging. I bet if no one told you to block before sword lunging it would've taken you WAY longer to figure it out and would you not agree that someone who does know how to sword lunge has an advantage over someone who doesn't? And no where in the tutorial or in the base game does Rare tell you to do this. So how were you supposed to figure it out? And I reckon that sword lunging gives WAY more of an advantage over other players than an auto clicker does. Also auto clickers are something anyone can have so it's not as if it's not accessible by everyone? So what's the difference? The fact it's third party? Ok then by that logic turning your controller upside down is ok then? You see the double standard i'm trying to get you guys to understand?

Hä
I did put the whole quote right there - dunno why I doubted myself there just now -
Any unfair advantage gained is automatically an advantage you have over other players is it not?
Even if its no "competitive advantage" or anything.
I get kicked after 10 minutes.
You do not with the use of your software.
You have an advantage over me.

And yes way I see it its entirely about the 3rd party software. And this doesn't mean that the controller thing is OK. As I mentioned above if you do it to leach off of an open crew it can be considered griefing and can get you banned.

@icanttiemyshoe2 by definition they are both using nonative/3rd party software to gain an advantage. Full stop.

@captain-fob4141 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2
You are comparing in game exploits to the use of third party softwares. It's one thing to exploit bugs it's another thing to use somthing nonative to the game in order to gain an advantage.

Ok but turning your controller upside down isn't a third party software. Nor is ladder launching. So it's ok to ladder launch since it's an in game exploit and not a third party one? And what about boosting in hourglass? That's also an in game exploit that also shouldn't be bannable/strikable according to you since it's not a third party software?

@icanttiemyshoe2 no but in game bugs are not the same as manipulating the game using software.

Again though, I think all of it should be bannable, but there is a massive difference in the things you are describing.

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@captain-fob4141 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2
You are comparing in game exploits to the use of third party softwares. It's one thing to exploit bugs it's another thing to use somthing nonative to the game in order to gain an advantage.

Ok but turning your controller upside down isn't a third party software. Nor is ladder launching. So it's ok to ladder launch since it's an in game exploit and not a third party one? And what about boosting in hourglass? That's also an in game exploit that also shouldn't be bannable/strikable according to you since it's not a third party software?

7. Harmful behavior has no place on Xbox

Cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits

Since competition is best when it’s fair, a level playing field is one of the most important requirements for gaming. When people cheat, use exploits, or otherwise tamper with hardware or software to gain a competitive advantage, it ruins the experience for everyone. Because of this, cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits is never acceptable in the Xbox community. Like, never.

For example, don’t:
Use “mods” in games that do not allow modded content
Use a glitch that lets you use your character outside of a multiplayer map
Use specialized software to gain unfair advantage over other players
Use Xbox services with modified or tampered hardware
Manipulate game stats to gain a competitive advantage against other players
Use multiple profiles to unfairly manipulate your multiplayer rank
Try to circumvent in-game economies through “money drop lobbies”
Use unauthorized hardware or accessories
Use exploits to “duplicate” in-game items
Intentionally play with or support someone who uses harmful or inappropriate mods
Intentionally “teamkill” other players

Okay so far I have just been referring to the examples they give below specifically the one about specialized software.

But I think the actual rule itself can very well also encompass turning your controller upside down to get an advantage seeing as that would be unintended and thus fall under the tampering - at least it can depending on how harsh you see it.

HG boosting too is an exploit and disallowed with this.

Ladder launching is an exploit too, the devs came and said they aren't banning anyone for it because they think its on them to fix it so that settles that I think.

@robogames05 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@robogames05
Less important parts? No you cut out the part that doesn't fit your argument, because ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage'' has a different meaning to ''don't use specialized software to gain an advantage over other players''.

There are tonnes of things in this game that give you advantages over other players. Take the most basic exploit for example - sword lunging. I bet if no one told you to block before sword lunging it would've taken you WAY longer to figure it out and would you not agree that someone who does know how to sword lunge has an advantage over someone who doesn't? And no where in the tutorial or in the base game does Rare tell you to do this. So how were you supposed to figure it out? And I reckon that sword lunging gives WAY more of an advantage over other players than an auto clicker does. Also auto clickers are something anyone can have so it's not as if it's not accessible by everyone? So what's the difference? The fact it's third party? Ok then by that logic turning your controller upside down is ok then? You see the double standard i'm trying to get you guys to understand?

Hä
I did put the whole quote right there - dunno why I doubted myself there just now -
Any unfair advantage gained is automatically an advantage you have over other players is it not?
Even if its no "competitive advantage" or anything.
I get kicked after 10 minutes.
You do not with the use of your software.
You have an advantage over me.

And yes way I see it its entirely about the 3rd party software. And this doesn't mean that the controller thing is OK. As I mentioned above if you do it to leach off of an open crew it can be considered griefing and can get you banned.

Firstly I don't have an advantage over you cause I don't use autoclicker but if I did I still wouldn't have an advantage over anyway. Since it's a tool both of us have access too assuming you're on pc. Exactly like every exploit in game from grate bucketing to sword lunging. Every player in the game has access to these exploits. Not everyone knows about them. Would you say it is then bannable for me to grate bucket against a crew that doesn't know how to do that even though it's perfectly in their power to do so?
Secondly (In reference to your final paragraph), Afk delaying by any means be it third party or not is only bannable if it's done with malicious intent in mind like griefing i.e leeching off of other crews? But if done on your own or with friends to stop being kicked is completely fine?

@icanttiemyshoe2 there is no autoclicker built into the game. Using one would be using out of game software. Out of game software is not allowed.

@robogames05 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@captain-fob4141 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2
You are comparing in game exploits to the use of third party softwares. It's one thing to exploit bugs it's another thing to use somthing nonative to the game in order to gain an advantage.

Ok but turning your controller upside down isn't a third party software. Nor is ladder launching. So it's ok to ladder launch since it's an in game exploit and not a third party one? And what about boosting in hourglass? That's also an in game exploit that also shouldn't be bannable/strikable according to you since it's not a third party software?

7. Harmful behavior has no place on Xbox

Cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits

Since competition is best when it’s fair, a level playing field is one of the most important requirements for gaming. When people cheat, use exploits, or otherwise tamper with hardware or software to gain a competitive advantage, it ruins the experience for everyone. Because of this, cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits is never acceptable in the Xbox community. Like, never.

For example, don’t:
Use “mods” in games that do not allow modded content
Use a glitch that lets you use your character outside of a multiplayer map
Use specialized software to gain unfair advantage over other players
Use Xbox services with modified or tampered hardware
Manipulate game stats to gain a competitive advantage against other players
Use multiple profiles to unfairly manipulate your multiplayer rank
Try to circumvent in-game economies through “money drop lobbies”
Use unauthorized hardware or accessories
Use exploits to “duplicate” in-game items
Intentionally play with or support someone who uses harmful or inappropriate mods
Intentionally “teamkill” other players

Okay so far I have just been referring to the examples they give below specifically the one about specialized software.

But I think the actual rule itself can very well also encompass turning your controller upside down to get an advantage seeing as that would be unintended and thus fall under the tampering - at least it can depending on how harsh you see it.

HG boosting too is an exploit and disallowed with this.

Ladder launching is an exploit too, the devs came and said they aren't banning anyone for it because they think its on them to fix it so that settles that I think.

I know ladder launching and HG boosting are exploits that rare don't like (and myself as well). I was just using @Captain-Fob4141 's argument against himself cause he said that exploits in game are fine because they're in game whereas something like an auto clicker isn't because it's third party even though one is obviously more damaging to the game than the other.
Also I do appreciate you siting these sources to me, really I do that might sound sarcastic but it's really hard to find out what the devs of this game do and do not condone as their code of conduct is very vague. I wish they would make it more specific and detailed. We shouldn't have to argue for hours over whether something is allowed or not because it should just say it plain and clearly.
Also one more thing, how do you know the devs don't ban for ladder launching? I know some people who have been yellowbearded for it before and it has been in the game for a long time without remedy. I just wanna know where you see these statements the devs make as I'd like to be informed about them myself.

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@robogames05 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@captain-fob4141 said in Lazybeard - Too Short:

@icanttiemyshoe2
You are comparing in game exploits to the use of third party softwares. It's one thing to exploit bugs it's another thing to use somthing nonative to the game in order to gain an advantage.

Ok but turning your controller upside down isn't a third party software. Nor is ladder launching. So it's ok to ladder launch since it's an in game exploit and not a third party one? And what about boosting in hourglass? That's also an in game exploit that also shouldn't be bannable/strikable according to you since it's not a third party software?

7. Harmful behavior has no place on Xbox

Cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits

Since competition is best when it’s fair, a level playing field is one of the most important requirements for gaming. When people cheat, use exploits, or otherwise tamper with hardware or software to gain a competitive advantage, it ruins the experience for everyone. Because of this, cheating, tampering, and the use of exploits is never acceptable in the Xbox community. Like, never.

For example, don’t:
Use “mods” in games that do not allow modded content
Use a glitch that lets you use your character outside of a multiplayer map
Use specialized software to gain unfair advantage over other players
Use Xbox services with modified or tampered hardware
Manipulate game stats to gain a competitive advantage against other players
Use multiple profiles to unfairly manipulate your multiplayer rank
Try to circumvent in-game economies through “money drop lobbies”
Use unauthorized hardware or accessories
Use exploits to “duplicate” in-game items
Intentionally play with or support someone who uses harmful or inappropriate mods
Intentionally “teamkill” other players

Okay so far I have just been referring to the examples they give below specifically the one about specialized software.

But I think the actual rule itself can very well also encompass turning your controller upside down to get an advantage seeing as that would be unintended and thus fall under the tampering - at least it can depending on how harsh you see it.

HG boosting too is an exploit and disallowed with this.

Ladder launching is an exploit too, the devs came and said they aren't banning anyone for it because they think its on them to fix it so that settles that I think.

I know ladder launching and HG boosting are exploits that rare don't like (and myself as well). I was just using @Captain-Fob4141 's argument against himself cause he said that exploits in game are fine because they're in game whereas something like an auto clicker isn't because it's third party even though one is obviously more damaging to the game than the other.
Also I do appreciate you siting these sources to me, really I do that might sound sarcastic but it's really hard to find out what the devs of this game do and do not condone as their code of conduct is very vague. I wish they would make it more specific and detailed. We shouldn't have to argue for hours over whether something is allowed or not because it should just say it plain and clearly.
Also one more thing, how do you know the devs don't ban for ladder launching? I know some people who have been yellowbearded for it before and it has been in the game for a long time without remedy. I just wanna know where you see these statements the devs make as I'd like to be informed about them myself.

uuuuh i dont know where it was exactly but in one of the recent dev videos drew stevens came out again and talked about exploits

scuttle during siren song will be fixed ❌ [and has already I think at this point]
ladder juking is fair game ✅ (Reverse Ladder Guarding- Not Sloop ladder grab from inside.)
sprint carrying on list to be fixed ❌
wall running on galleon is fine ✅
dpi glitch underwater is to be fixed ❌
funni launching is to be fixed ❌
silent board is to be fixed ❌
block sword lunch "locked firmly in our meta", stays ✅

that was what he talked about (I compiled this little list at the time)

I found the video again and he specifically said that

"and while these aren't bannable offenses just don't get too attached to using them"
(about the ones I marked with the X)

it was in the video Siren Skull Fixes, Safer Seas and a Lovely Festive Tree: Sea of Thieves News November 29th 2023

@icanttiemyshoe2

Also I do think these things are made specifically vague so that staff have some leeway in making decisions
Before they came out with the video I mentioned above a friend of mine messaged a Mod on the official SoT discord to ask about ladder/ funni launch
And that Mod said if you're just doing it for fun its fine, but in a fight where you get an advantage out of it it would be bannable
And thats still vague right
Like in a chase I will catch you eventually but with funny launch it'll be a lot quicker so is that still an advantage?
Or youknow using it to get from A to B is technically an advantage but would be fine under the mods definition cuz its not a fight?