I'm addicted to Hourglass - but it needs some serious LOVE

  • GinjaHD
    Seafarer
    Insider

    I have thousands of hours in PVP shooters across my lifetime as a gamer. I love competitive games! Sea of Thieves naval combat is some of the most rewarding and addicting game play loop I've ever experienced in a game. The amount of coordination and teamwork it takes to sink another coordinated crew is extremely satisfying.

    Recently SoT is clearly becoming friendlier to newer players. Just look at the last couple of updates:

    • Map board removal, harpoon board removal, quick swap removal, expensive ripped sails nerf, safer seas, and quick loot moving removal

    I'm totally okay with this, this game can be brutal for new players to learn! But hourglass and the core foundation of the game still needs a ton of love to keep the core veteran players of this game happy

    General Game issues:

    • No updates on anticheat - I ran into multiple people with fresh accounts (with less than 1 hour of playtime on SoT) who were clearly cheating on hourglass over community weekend
    • No account verification - no pirate legend or level requirement for HG, no phone number account verification
    • Cheater party punishment - No punishment for people benefiting from queuing with cheaters (they should lose the rep they gained playing with a cheater)
    • Server performance - Hitreg and server performance is still lacking even with one less ship on servers.

    Hourglass issues:

    • Why do I get the same hourglass rep for sinking a crew of new players and for sinking a ship of talented veteran players?
    • It feels really bad having a long fight with another talented crew and get rewarded 0.0001 rep. On the flip side, it also feels horrible sinking new players and still getting the same amount of rep.
    • Right now I think the rep/sbmm system needs some attention. I feel it doesn't help the new players and doesn't reward the dedicated players.
    • New players are constantly getting stomped and quitting the mode. Veteran players are constantly playing cheaters or sitting in very long queues.
    • If I'm on a 0 win streak and I sink someone who is on a 25 win streak I get a flat rate of reputation. If I go on a 20 win streak, I will get more rep each time I sink someone. But it does not scale based on what the other persons winstreak is at. Which in my opinion doesn't make a lot of sense
    • There's no loss bonus supplies to re-queue into a fight quickly. You sunk? Enjoy loading up on supplies (mostly searching for chain shots) for the next 15 mins. Imagine you are an average player trying to hold your own? You might win two fights, then sink twice. Then win one time, then sink twice... every time you sink you have to resupply and get your ship geared up. Sure you can get captain supplies for food/cannonballs/wood but you still have to search for chainshots

    I'm really starting to worry that this mode is going to suffer the fate of arena which greatly saddens me because ship vs ship naval combat is incredibly fun and naval combat is where this game really shines.

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  • MrEstiercol
    Captain
    Insider

    I hope not, But I think Hg is going to enter on maintenance mode just like arena did.

    They can massively improve the mode with a simple hotfix to the experience gained and the re supply problem that you mentioned.... but seems like Rare doesn´t care about this mode anymore.

    They released it and it was a failure, too many cheaters, tedious asF if you sunk, lots of afk farmers and runners....

    I love the game mode as you do, but TBH I think it will be completely dead soon.

  • Ken Static
    Commander
    Insider

    Yeah at first I found PvP hourglass to be a great concept but as time went by and the hype went down after season 8, it really became a playground for cheaters who just ruin it for everyone else. I've even had players bragging about cheating or teaming up with them as if that's something to be proud of. Given how Rare hardly talks about this game mode unless they're mentioning it in accordance to something else, I fear this game mode might suffer the same fate as Arena mode.

  • GinjaHD
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @mrestiercol Yeah HG is in a really tough state right now and I have a hard time motivating myself to play it. I consider myself a hardcore pvp player. If I'm having a tough time playing it, I can't even imagine being motivated as an average joe to play it

    I really hope it doesn't get throw in the trash because the naval combat is really addicting in this game and I think works way better than how arena functioned

  • GinjaHD
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @ken-theorist Yeah even just a simple level requirement or pirate legend requirement would help a lot with cheaters. People would still do it for sure but it would be much more of a time commitments and then couldn't just spam new accounts

  • YoSoyWagen
    Castaway

    I feel in love with hourglass when I experienced it. I had about 80 hours in the game and I wasn't a pirate legend, yet. I've met alot of cool people on official playing this mode. The naval combat is exhilarating. I hope they make some improvements, like long matchmaking queues and other things, to keep this mode alive.

  • Soulstinger2k20
    Master
    Insider

    It really needs some attention, and so far over a year later it has been completely ignored.

    Rep reward tweaks, matchmaking adjustments, fleshing out rewards from 1-100 and 200-1000, servant ship sets and weapons, on and on there is so much room for improvement and expansion.

    Shame to see it falling by the wayside

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I will spam it till death of the forum:

    First win (for faction) that guarantee one level.

  • Soulstinger2k20
    Master
    Insider

    @ghutar first win of the day bonus

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Why do I get the same hourglass rep for sinking a crew of new players and for sinking a ship of talented veteran players?

    All pirates are Equal.
    Everyone seems to forget this

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @soulstinger2k20 yes.

  • Ghutar
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @burnbacon buuut bonus based on streak number of sinked crew would be nice.

  • Sandfeld2004
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @ginjahd

    The amount of cheaters have severly decreased since season 8 and 9.
    We went 64-2 through Community week and gained somewhat 130 levels within 14 hours, which is extremely good but also shows the amount of time you will have to use/waste to get the lvl 1000. Through our playsession, we meet very few players with aim assist but no kegspawners, not a single since season 10 arrival, which is shocking and good news.

    I dont find any problems with the loading times, its usually a few minutes, but nothing more.

    The rep/sbmm system surely needs work but is also impossible with the current players. I dont want to wait longer just so the game can find a compatible opponent.

    Your rep is maximised at a streak of 4 btw.

    The supplies isn't a problem, honestly just buy the supplies and go next.

    The General Game Issues I completely agree with, but I hope/believe that some of the anti-cheat has been made, because I honestly have not meet a single obvious hacker in terms of flying, spawning/teleporting so on.

  • testakleze
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @ghutar
    I had an idea a couple weeks ago that I think could be a simple change for Rare but provide a lot for the player. Make it where HG winners will steal the streak from the loser.

    Imagine voting HG and diving for your first fight. You get matched against someone on a 4 streak. If you win, you receive normal rep, normal HG value, and plus one to your streak. Then after all that, you get +4 to your streak from the enemy. You have still received the normal rep and HG value you would have on your first battle, but after all that is calculated, the enemies streak is added to yours. Your next battle would provide streak 5 rewards instead of streak 1.

    This battle would have been no different than now, and the rewards would essentially be no different either, but taking the enemies streak let's you jump from 0 to 5 in one battle. Someone trying to earn champion status for the commendation might cash in and start over, or they might push their luck on a second battle with an already maxed multiplier.

    The sbmm and streak system are counterintuitive to one another. One tries to create matches that are even, giving players an 50/50 chance to win or lose, while the other rewards continuous wins without losing. I feel this could be a relatively easy change for Rare to implement that could make the entire mode more enjoyable and rewarding.

  • Soulstinger2k20
    Master
    Insider

    @testakleze I dont think combining or jumping streaks is a good idea.

    At BEST perhaps add a bonus for sinking a Champion boat, and add a commendation+cool cosmetic for Champion diving

  • GinjaHD
    Seafarer
    Insider

    @sandfeld2004 said in I'm addicted to Hourglass - but it needs some serious LOVE:

    @ginjahd

    The amount of cheaters have severely decreased since season 8 and 9.
    We went 64-2 through Community week and gained somewhat 130 levels within 14 hours, which is extremely good but also shows the amount of time you will have to use/waste to get the lvl 1000. Through our playsession, we meet very few players with aim assist but no kegspawners, not a single since season 10 arrival, which is shocking and good news.

    I dont find any problems with the loading times, its usually a few minutes, but nothing more.

    The rep/sbmm system surely needs work but is also impossible with the current players. I dont want to wait longer just so the game can find a compatible opponent.

    Your rep is maximised at a streak of 4 btw.

    The supplies isn't a problem, honestly just buy the supplies and go next.

    The General Game Issues I completely agree with, but I hope/believe that some of the anti-cheat has been made, because I honestly have not meet a single obvious hacker in terms of flying, spawning/teleporting so on.

    • I do agree I didn't see any keg spawn cheaters which was great but definitely saw a lot with aim hacks or cannon hacks (consistently sniping our cannon line over and over again several hundred yards away through waves while both ships were moving and they had less than 1 hr playtime). A simple level requirement to dive would help alleviate a lot of this
    • Loading times could vary by region but I played in NA West and NA East servers and had trouble with queue times in both
    • I think the SBMM/rep system needs to be adjusted/updated but this doesn't mean that queue times need to be made longer.
    • I do agree supplies aren't a massive deal and you can easily buy captain supplies at the shipright. But where we might disagree is I think chainshots are a huge deal and going into a competitive fight without a lot of them at your disposal is a big disadvantage
  • RiptideAtlantic
    Marauder
    Insider

    @sandfeld2004 said in I'm addicted to Hourglass - but it needs some serious LOVE:

    Through our playsession, we meet very few players with aim assist

    I think the word you are looking for is aimbot. All controller players have aim assist, they just added it.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    The only changes I think are necessary are these:

    • Increase XP gained for sinking a champion, make 1 lv per champion sunk

    • Receive half of the current streak's total XP, meaning that being sunk doesn't mean total loss, encouraging people to risk more.

    • MAYBE, change resources to return to battle faster.

    • A steady rate of new skins for the hourglass, once a year would be nice. This will leave the mode alive

    Otherwise the mode works as it should, I don't think there should be a buff to XP gain, the rate is satisfactory, those who play well get a lot of XP, those who don't play so well get low XP... a scenario where those who don't play as well If you can level up quickly, it's an imbalance. Not that this post suggests great facilities, but others I saw suggested

  • BFF Li
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    The cost of a new account is too low (the game time on SoT is less than 1 hour). If only Legendary Pirates can play the hourglass, there has been a lot of cheating in the past two days, and unlike before, invisibility has already emerged

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb

    And enjoy low pop hg!

    You want slow progression for people who don’t win often then guess what they won’t play hg.

  • L0cke547
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    hardcore players kind of have to accept the way rare is going with this game, revenue drives their decisions and they are doing everything they can to make it as easy as possible for newer players. its very sad but its true. there has been a statement that there will never be PVE servers in the past. forumdiscussions are closed over and over again. it was clearly communitcated that decisions have been made and we as customers are not allowed to comment on them in the forums. like that says a lot about how i feel treated, and i do love this game.

    i mean lowering the skill gap is the woke thing to do.

    the average player never was harpoon boarded but yet they patched it. people are forumposting about new quickswap methods because somebody shot them twice in season10. its basically a witchhunt.

    that beeing said its probably working, hardcore players have been leaving this game a lot over the last year, so i guess newer players and their ancient coins are safer out there.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837 This is normal, in all games, those who play well level up quickly, those who don't take a long time to level up... do you want an easy progression? people will just play until they get their skins and leave HG for good.

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb

    Lol you fail to understand the point.

    People who cannot win very much are already not participating in the mode.

    The carrot on the stick is to far away to motivate them.

    People need to go be retrained in the arena of common sense.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837 I know, these people don't like HG PVP either, if it becomes easy mode they will play until they have the skins and leave. In fact, some already do this, the only difference is that they will leave the hourglass faster.

    Good players will reach lv 1000 faster and even if they like PVP they will reduce their rate of hours spent on the hourglass.

    Making it easier is literally killing HG in the long run.

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb

    Again you miss the point entirely.

    You worried about some arbitrary date in the future when the mode isn’t doing well right now.

    The people who enjoy hg have their curses.

  • Elextrov
    Ship Mate

    @lleorb I understand what you are saying and I would completely agree with you but it also needs to be easy enough that people don't lose the enjoyment from how tedious the grind to level 1000 is but this problem could be fixed with more rewards on the journey to lvl 1000.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837 The mode is working well, the lack of players is mainly due to a lack of rewards. Not because of difficulty in progressing.

    Bad/average players play or played until lv 100/200 and stopped

    Good players got lv 1000 and stopped

    Players who don't like HG take their rewards and stop, players who like it decrease the rate of hours spent on HG

    With more rewards from lv 200 to 1000 and one at lv 1500 or 2000, You attract all types of players back.

    This is the solution to matchmaking, again, facilitating progression is KILLING the hourglass in the long run, you want to attract a player base that just doesn't like HG PVP.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @elextrov I support more rewards between lv 200 - 1000, it should happen and would certainly make the grind more acceptable and fun, but it would never make it easier to gain xp.

    We also have to keep in mind that lv 1000 is not for everyone, not everyone wants or is willing to dedicate themselves to it, and it's okay to have something difficult in the game... although I find this grind a bit exaggerated.

  • Elextrov
    Ship Mate

    @lleorb I think rare could add more curse colors along the way with their own unique unlocking animation to make the grind to lvl 1000 be viewed by the player as better because of it being a thing where the player needs 100 more levels to unlock this curse repeatedly until you hit gold curse instead of the player getting bored of not gaining anything for 900 levels it puts a better view on hourglass making the player want to play it for fun because they remember having a good time in the past unlike the current system where the player thinks back on the tedious and boring experience in hourglass

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb said in I'm addicted to Hourglass - but it needs some serious LOVE:

    @shodhornet16837 The mode is working well, the lack of players is mainly due to a lack of rewards. Not because of difficulty in progressing.

    Bad/average players play or played until lv 100/200 and stopped

    Good players got lv 1000 and stopped

    Players who don't like HG take their rewards and stop, players who like it decrease the rate of hours spent on HG

    With more rewards from lv 200 to 1000 and one at lv 1500 or 2000, You attract all types of players back.

    This is the solution to matchmaking, again, facilitating progression is KILLING the hourglass in the long run, you want to attract a player base that just doesn't like HG PVP.

    So what about the people who don’t have their curses at all?

    Forget them people.

    You’re blind to this? You think everybody who wants them has them already when that’s NOT the case.

    It’s so funny when someone doesn’t have any empathy they will literally rather keep the problem in place than recognize there is a problem to begin with.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837 Read it again, these people don't like the mode, they don't want hg pvp...

    What I showed is that what you are really saying is not a solution for matchmaking, what you want is to make rewards easier and more accessible to those who don't have it... What I've shown is that the matchmaking problem will be worsened in the long term if what you suggest happens, as faster progress requires more skins to keep HG interesting, a demand that Rare cannot meet.

    Now about making them easier to obtain, apart from the fact that it would be disrespectful to those who obtained them in the current system, PVP curses do not and should not be easy just because some players want them, especially if it's at the expense of your health, which as I said will kill the HG matchmaking later. There are already community weekends and double xp days that make progress much easier, even for players who are not very good at pvp.

    If a player who only likes PVP wants a PVE title like Sea of ​​Thieves Legendary Hunter, should Rare make it just so he and similar players can get it?
    If they are not willing to try and try until they succeed, they simply shouldn't have it, we are not talking about something impossible to achieve, it just depends on skill and patience.

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb said in I'm addicted to Hourglass - but it needs some serious LOVE:

    @shodhornet16837 Read it again, these people don't like the mode, they don't want hg pvp...

    What I showed is that what you are really saying is not a solution for matchmaking, what you want is to make rewards easier and more accessible to those who don't have it... What I've shown is that the matchmaking problem will be worsened in the long term if what you suggest happens, as faster progress requires more skins to keep HG interesting, a demand that Rare cannot meet.

    Now about making them easier to obtain, apart from the fact that it would be disrespectful to those who obtained them in the current system, PVP curses do not and should not be easy just because some players want them, especially if it's at the expense of your health, which as I said will kill the HG matchmaking later. There are already community weekends and double xp days that make progress much easier, even for players who are not very good at pvp.

    Literally like talking to a brick wall.

    “Those people don’t like the mode, they don’t want hg PvP”

    Boy oh boy have you ever stopped to think about why that might be Sherlock?

    Maybe it’s because they find it impossible to win unless they match against a loss farmer and then here’s the best part when they do win against the loss farmer they see their allegiance go up by 1/3 of a level and think to themselves, I will never get this curse.

    Ope, but to you this is not an issue. These people just don’t like hg PvP.

    No buddy it’s the horrible horrible rate of allegiance progression if you can’t maintain win streaks.

    Yes buddy I’m aware that during special events that allegiance progression is more balanced and attractive to those who are not as good at PvP.

    That’s the whole point Sherlock.

    Make allegiance progression greater on non-event days by substantially buffing the amount of allegiance you earn from winning a battle.

    Encourage people not to loss farm by substantially buffing the amount of allegiance you earn from winning a battle.

    Decrease the perceived length of the grind to level 100 for both factions by substantially buffing the amount of allegiance you earn from winning a battle.

    You can not see what doesn’t apply to you. You don’t possess that ability. You have your curses, you win a lot of your hg fights the system works great for YOU!

    But not for everybody. It’s really really bad for people who can’t win that much. And it’s a shame that Rare is so unaware of this issue.

    Hourglass has massive potential to be liked by more than just the sweatiest pirates if the mode actually worked for more than just the sweatiest pirates. Right now the mode is mostly enjoyed by the most diehard PvP’ers and that’s about it. And it has a lot to do with now unfriendly allegiance progression is to players who aren’t great at PvP.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837

    Literally like talking to a brick wall.

    You literally aren't thinking before you write and answer the same thing.

    Boy oh boy have you ever stopped to think about why that might be Sherlock?
    -Maybe it’s because they find it impossible to win unless they match against a loss farmer and then here’s the best part when they do win against the loss farmer they see their allegiance go up by 1/3 of a level and think to themselves, I will never get this curse.

    They don't like PVP, NO MATTER THE REWARD OR PROGRESSION RATE. I hate fishing, I did 100% of the hunting call for the title, after I got the title I never stopped to actively fish for fun. The people you mention DON'T LIKE PVP, there's no point in increasing progression, there's no point in adding the best rewards in the game, they'll still not like the mode, and IF they play it will only be to get them.

    Well, I think you at least understand that such changes will inevitably negatively affect matchmaking in the future, but you think facilitating should still be done...

    You can not see what doesn’t apply to you. You don’t possess that ability. You have your curses, you win a lot of your hg fights the system works great for YOU!

    No, I fought a lot in the hourglass, enough to see good, average and beginner players try to make progress, without needing excuses to make things easier, seriously, when you mention these players who can't get to lv 100 who exactly are we talking about? ? because what else there are are average players with their curses, without needing any nerf. Of my friends, who aren't hardcore players, those who tried to get the curse succeeded, those who did didn't have the patience or were afraid to try and didn't... being practically at the same skill level.

    The problem isn't with the current rate of xp gained, it's with the players themselves.

    Hourglass has massive potential to be liked by more than just the sweatiest pirates if the mode actually worked for more than just the sweatiest pirates. Right now the mode is mostly enjoyed by the most diehard PvP’ers and that’s about it. And it has a lot to do with now unfriendly allegiance progression is to players who aren’t great at PvP.

    Again, you talk about how making progression easier would magically make these people like HG, they don't want PVP, they want to level up, and as soon as they reach that level they will stop playing, this is inevitable.

  • ShodHornet16837
    Castaway

    @lleorb

    I can’t press the quote button again I just can’t do it.

    All I can say is your attitude is the reason why the mode is so underpopulated.

    It doesn’t matter if people only play to unlock the curses.

    We just need people of all skill levels playing hg for the sbmm to work.

    Honestly I’ve said my piece and I would straight up label you as a gatekeeper.

    Your mission is to keep average to below average at PvP people from getting the curse at all.

    That’s a terrible mission.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @shodhornet16837 Well, I'm going to say this one last time, I think I've made it clear enough.

    It doesn’t matter if people only play to unlock the curses
    We just need people of all skill levels playing hg for the sbmm to work.

    Assuming Rare makes grindr easier, at best, 1 level per win... Is it so hard to understand that after getting the curse in two weeks these people will NEVER touch HG AGAIN?

    That it will literally make no difference to matchmaking to attract people if their progression is quick, as they will take what they want and leave?

    Even in the current scenario with normal progression there are not enough skins released to keep up with the demand of those who have already received their rewards, so with faster progression it will be IMPOSSIBLE to sustain HG with skins, and this will be the end of the mode.

    It's literally choosing between pleasing beginners who don't like PVP, killing HG or sustaining it as it is with small changes and more rewards per year.

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