Getting new people into this game is hard.

@teladiz

I'm one of those non-fighters and I've found my space in SoT. Do I do all the new hotness? Not usually unless it's a TT or Adventure. I have poked around with the Siren Skull a little tho lol.

Safer Seas is coming in a month. Get their feet wet and their interest piqued in the restricted area, then introduce them to being sunk by a gally😋

Safer seas will fix all that, giving a chance to new players to learn the game until they are ready for PVEVP. (And if not it's fine too, but reward will scale with the amount of risk chosen)

The problem is, if you invest time in the pve aspect, and get attacked. You get very little for defending

You keep the Loot you collected.

while the pvpers can get all your time invested and work.

Victor goes the spoils

With players also having limited time, this makes the pvp feel worse, even more so when people fight without a flag.

That why you can clearly jump to a Fortress, finish it in under 20min and sail back to a Nearby outpost. Everything within reach

How many times have you defended your loot, and got nothing for defending, but if you fail. They get rewarded.

You are confusing me here. I defended my Loot, what I got is my Loot, or rather Loot I havnt turned in yet. But I also go an accomplishment, I defended myself.

BUT! that why we have Safer Seas

@teladiz said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@knurd9369 Yes, you get bonus rep, or bonus gold when you kill someone while your ship has treasure on it. Like a blessing or something. That way it would be worth while for pvpers to get treasure and hold on to it, while they fight others, at the same time they risk losing that treasure if they fail to take other peoples. Or something creative like that.

Could be a fun addition to emissaries! As long as there is a way for it not to be abusable by alliances and such but still, something like this could be cool.

@teladiz the reward and enjoyment from the game isn't how much you earn or the achievements, it's from sailing and having fun with your friends. The loot is just a bonus.

@teladiz said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

The friends I try to get into this game, don't stick around and it is because pvp. Not in the way most people think.

So the pve is a huge time investment for new players (and old.) and the risk is exciting to them, and even pvp is exciting. The problem is, if you invest time in the pve aspect, and get attacked. You get very little for defending, while the pvpers can get all your time invested and work. With players also having limited time, this makes the pvp feel worse, even more so when people fight without a flag.

That is it, the risk vs reward is the main core problem with pvp, and thinking about it as someone who does both. I kinda agree with them. How many times have you defended your loot, and got nothing for defending, but if you fail. They get rewarded.

You've summed up the biggest problem with PvP in this game and the core of why it ends up burning so many players (new and old) out and creating so many negative emotions. Now, mind you, you'll meet plenty of people on the forums who will tell you that your wrong and a surprising amount who say that they explicitly go in search of PvP with loot on their ship, but neither of these are true. The balance of risk/reward doesn't exist for attackers. They risk nothing by going on the attack unless they have loot on board, and any player who wants any sort of material reward will simply turn in before they go after their next target while those who don't care about material rewards won't waste their time picking up the loot from their kills. In either case, 9 times out of ten, the attacker is never going to have loot while the defender is likely to have loot (assuming they didn't just spawn in, in which case there's literally no point in attacking them other than to get on their nerves).

Edit: in short, the attacker has everything to gain and the defender has everything to lose.

What you gain from defending your loot is that you keep your loot. Its an all or nothing system, and to me, i spend most of my time hoarding loot for a long time with the hopes it will entice people to attack!

It is a good idea to try to disconnect from your loot some how, because it serves very little purpose beyond cosmetics and some supplies. The interaction is the content, the loot is just a catalyst for interaction.

@goldsmen said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

What you gain from defending your loot is that you keep your loot. Its an all or nothing system, and to me, i spend most of my time hoarding loot for a long time with the hopes it will entice people to attack!

It is a good idea to try to disconnect from your loot some how, because it serves very little purpose beyond cosmetics and some supplies. The interaction is the content, the loot is just a catalyst for interaction.

So their reward is the thing they already worked to get? The thing that they had before the pvp encounter began? The thing the attacker doesn't have to wager? Man, I forgot that 1+0 = 2. How silly of me.
So... Do remind me what the attacker is required to wager in this whole interaction?

Also, why in the world would you dig up treasure just so that you can be attacked when you can literally go looking for a fight anywhere on the seas without it? I don't buy that for even a second.

@silverwing-525 said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

What you gain from defending your loot is that you keep your loot. Its an all or nothing system, and to me, i spend most of my time hoarding loot for a long time with the hopes it will entice people to attack!

It is a good idea to try to disconnect from your loot some how, because it serves very little purpose beyond cosmetics and some supplies. The interaction is the content, the loot is just a catalyst for interaction.

So their reward is the thing they already worked to get? The thing that they had before the pvp encounter began? The thing the attacker doesn't have to wager? Man, I forgot that 1+0 = 2. How silly of me.
So... Do remind me what the attacker is required to wager in this whole interaction?

Also, why in the world would you dig up treasure just so that you can be attacked when you can literally go looking for a fight anywhere on the seas without it? I don't buy that for even a second.

Yes, that is exactly what your reward is. The loot is not yours until you turn it in, and while you might think something like "how dare they take my hard earned loot!", stealing loot from a good crew is harder than fighting some skeles and ghosts for that same loot, so if they win, it is THEIR hard earned loot at that point.

I dont want to sound cliche, but it is a pirate game with "thieves" in the name, implying people dont intend to play fair and bring their own loot to the table, you can do the same and attack others with an empty ship. And im willing to bet if you do attack others ever, you would prefer to sell your loot before you did so, just so you dont put it on the line.

I dont care if i lose my loot to some one with nothing, because every piece of loot is worth fake gold that only gives you cosmetics and supplies to help against these attackers. I have every cosmetic i want except for a curse and a watch, and im max rank in the main 3 factions, so i dont care about the loot i haul other than the fact that it entices others to attack me, rather than run away.

So basically it doesnt matter if you "buy it", thats my reason, im into this game because naval is an absolute blast, and having a huge haul is the only thing that seems to really entice people not to run unless they are getting destroyed. Call me a liar, refuse to buy it all you like, but it just comes off as rude if you are wrong!

@teladiz said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen So in other words, attackers should not have any risks at all?

While the person doing the pve content side should have all the risk, and time invested? And that is fine?

We would not need this safer seas stuff if the core foundation of pvp was not so one sided when it comes to risk vs reward. Keeping what you earn is not a reward when you defend two times and all it takes is for them to sink you once and they get all your time undone and loot.

There should be some risk for the person who just takes as well.

Yes, thats exactly right! Its a pirate game, pirates fight dirty, and you have the right and power to do the same!

@discobugle09896 said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@teladiz said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen So in other words, attackers should not have any risks at all?

While the person doing the pve content side should have all the risk, and time invested? And that is fine?

We would not need this safer seas stuff if the core foundation of pvp was not so one sided when it comes to risk vs reward. Keeping what you earn is not a reward when you defend two times and all it takes is for them to sink you once and they get all your time undone and loot.

There should be some risk for the person who just takes as well.

Yes, thats exactly right! Its a pirate game, pirates fight dirty, and you have the right and power to do the same!

Haha I love this guy. Everybody do not do any PvE whatsoever and just go out and fight every crew you see on the horizon and let’s see how fast this game dies. In fact, this is exactly what’s been happening and is happening slowly but surely the top consumes the entire middle and what’s left is only the top and brand new players who quickly leave the game because the skill gap is way to big.

Because remember there’s no penalty or consequences to attacking other crews and that’s exactly how a pirate game is supposed to be.

Lol.

Same guy who says a solo player is more of a threat than all duo sloops, brigs and gallys.

Just ignore honestly.

It’s sorta like rockstar releasing a grand theft auto without law enforcement.

I never told anyone not to play pve, i have said that pve to entice pvp is MY play style. And i never said solo is better than a duo, but that a good solo player will do better than a duo that only learned how to duo, and cant solo their ship, because they dont know the basics of the sloop.

However a good solo can absolutely beat a galleon due to the way galleon is balanced, and the fact that galleon is literally the easiest ship to sink. The galleon sinks the fastest per hole, with the most potential holes of any ship. That tied to the fact that a galleon struggles to turn and maneuver, while a sloop is the tankiest and has the sharpest turn means that as a solo, as long as you are smart enough to keep out of the broadside of the only 4 gun ship, you can overwhelm it easily.

@discobugle09896 said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen

A good solo can beat a bad duo sloop, brigantine or galleon.

A good solo will struggle and very likely lose against any competent full crew.

A solo attacker has nothing to lose.

A solo who is PvE’ing has everything to lose.

It is horrendously unfair that Rare forces all solos on servers with full crews. Basically solo play isn’t really supported. You’re just half of a duo sloop on servers with all crew sizes.

Ok, if you believe that about solo crews vs competent crews, then good onto you, but you should watch some of mixel when hes solo some day.

As for it being unfair, like i said, its a pirate game, and pirates are not known to fight fair. If you are worried about losing your loot to a better crew, try running! It is a tactic at your disposal! But it is a tactic i refuse to employ when i play cause i dont care about losing gold that has literally no use for me.

Just remember, only you can decide how much value your loot actually has in a game where the only reward is cosmetics.

@discobugle09896 said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@discobugle09896 said in Getting new people into this game is hard.:

@goldsmen

A good solo can beat a bad duo sloop, brigantine or galleon.

A good solo will struggle and very likely lose against any competent full crew.

A solo attacker has nothing to lose.

A solo who is PvE’ing has everything to lose.

It is horrendously unfair that Rare forces all solos on servers with full crews. Basically solo play isn’t really supported. You’re just half of a duo sloop on servers with all crew sizes.

Ok, if you believe that about solo crews vs competent crews, then good onto you, but you should watch some of mixel when hes solo some day.

As for it being unfair, like i said, its a pirate game, and pirates are not known to fight fair. If you are worried about losing your loot to a better crew, try running! It is a tactic at your disposal! But it is a tactic i refuse to employ when i play cause i dont care about losing gold that has literally no use for me.

Just remember, only you can decide how much value your loot actually has in a game where the only reward is cosmetics.

You can’t point to one of the top players in the game and say watch them play solo and you’ll see that solo is viable.

How about we take an average solo player and put them up against average full crews and see the results of that?

My man, in a game with a skill cap so high, average is impossible to measure, but i would say that i am about average in terms of combat skill. I have sunk most brigs that have come my way, hardly fought any galleons, and won most, the only ships that put up a good fight seem to be other solo players.

That all said, it still doesnt matter either way since i provided you a solution. Run from the attackers if you dont wish to fight. But no matter what you do, some day you will realize that the loot has little to no value, and there is a reason that many streamers with tens of thousands of hours actively avoid selling huge hauls after sinking some one.

@discobugle09896 I think because i dont wish to debate you longer, i will end off by saying, when a new player has a captained ship and enough gold to buy supplies, exactly what value other than cosmetics does gold have?

Answer if you wish, dont answer if you dont wish, either way, i hope you have a good day, and wind in your sails.