For me, anyone who used quickswitch after the limitation on weapon switching implemented years ago should be seen as a cheater and punished, it's an unintentional exploit to gain an advantage in pvp, serious enough for me...
Now they have implemented a solution for this, it has been briefly tested, it will continue to be changed until it becomes satisfactory enough.
You all realize that noone of you has any actual arguments and just keeps repeating „evil exploit“.
Rare never called it exploit, they never wanted to punish anyone for using it.
Watch the season 10 video where they announce the changes, they call it a technique and are even apologetic to players who used it.
And because im tired of repeating myself here you go.
„The intended part is debatable, it was the result of a patch they brought 3 years ago to instaswapping (shooting two bullets basically in the same milisecond) and its been left in the game for years untouched, what, to me, makes it seem like they were happy with it and that it worked how they wanted/intended it.
They changed their opinion, but they were obviously okay with how it was for a long time and when i joined sot, it was just considered a part of the game.“
No one cares about the 0,2 seconds of „competetive advantage“ over new players, i actually explained that in the same answer already aswell.
„If the feeling of a smooth transition between weapons wouldve stayed and they simply increased the timer in between shots to match those of a normal switch, i am sure most people would be happy with it and not complain.“
@offtherec Obviously Rare will treat this as a technique and will not ban anyone, a considerable number of streamers used this. This is also the likely reason why it lasted so long, fear of displeasing those who promote the game.
But the fact is that they implemented an animation with a fixed time for changing weapons and this was bypassed with a bug, it is clear that this was not intended.
They also probably sought to change this as a middle ground for so many people asking for the exclusion of the double gun, which for me would be great even now, in my opinion it is a style that does not suit this type of game and still attracts certain types of players who cause several problems(toxicity, cheating...)
0.2 ms makes a lot of difference when that time is the difference between hiding/eating.
@lleorb said in What is the goal?:
@offtherec Obviously Rare will treat this as a technique and will not ban anyone, a considerable number of streamers used this. This is also the likely reason why it lasted so long, fear of displeasing those who promote the game.
I do think there have been times where that has played a part of why some stuff has been and hasn't done in the past but I also think development takes a long time and they only have so much time and so many resources so a lot of the time it's more they just got around to it when they could. It's just a lot of time and work and they have so much going on.
As far as influence goes my personal opinion is that player content and influencers have less pull than they once did in this game. At 5+ years in there is less wiggle room and it's more about retention and casual play. People being stuck at home gave the game and content creators a lot of activity they likely wouldn't have otherwise had so everyone has to figure things out now that people are back to doing other things.
Personally I think those days are gone. Feedback sure but less influence imo. They will still respond to it sometimes when people get fired up about something but I think they are gonna do what they are gonna do even if it upsets some in content creation, imo.
Also, a lot more people are tired of the drama of this all (the entire SoT negativity cycle), I think it will lead to more content creators chilling out about this stuff (some, not all) and I think the ones that do chill out and focus on making the best out of it will have more enjoyable experiences and the channels will benefit from the chilled out vibe.
@offtherec it is 100% an exploit because its bypassing a nerf they intentionally put in the game years ago. Also why they are trying to fix it now.
So many people commenting on quick swap not knowing that it wasn't needed when the game came out. Quick swap was the default mode. There was 0 weapon swap delay for over a year when the game came out. So the exploit people were using for literally years was a work around to a nerf Rare made to try to balance the game. The real issue here is that they let it slide for so long. It was insanely neglectful of them to create a skill gap situation that required people to understand the concept of animation canceling to be put back on an even playing field as everyone else. So everyone making a big deal now about them trying to properly re-implement a nerf they tried to add years ago for the sake of "balance" which had an unintended side effect of actually creating an imbalance. It shows a glaring problem with the design focus of the game. They were too busy focused on adding adventures for 2 years than solving an issue they should have never created in the first place.
No matter what they do it would probably annoy the PvP crowd but the reason for weapon draw delay was "Being 1 shot by 2 rapid fire bullets felt bad" So they added a weapon draw delay. The real fix? Reduce all damage, increase ammo. Now it's impossible to 2 shot someone with guns. Problem solved, combat still feels fluid. Would feel bad taking more shots to kill a person but it's relative. Being 1 shot by a blunder has always felt just as bad but they haven't touched that so their reasoning seems a bit flawed but yea.
We need a combat 2.0 instead of failing to fix an exploit. Took over 10 months of trying to fix quick swap and you can just look up tutorials on youtube on how to quickswap in s10 because exploiters will always find a way. And when they run out of ways they might finally quit which is something they really can't afford at this point. Player retention needs to become one of their primary focuses after how long s9 ran and how lacking in content s10 is they can't be neglectful of what the players want for much longer. Though that is the reason for safer seas, it is the most requested feature since the game came out, even more popular than adding arena. Though just like arena it's being implemented poorly and will be a dead mode.
@magus104 Just make all weapons capable of OHK. Problem solved, no need for double gunning, if someone still wants to do it then fine.
Blunder - has OHK.
Sword - has OHK, but it's either super situational, or your opponent needs to be afk to do it.
Sniper - No OHK
Pistol - No OHK.
Nobody likes my solution, but just add headshot for sniper/pistol , everyone skilled and happy.
After watching the new update video im very glad to say that rare indeed sees the same issues and are trying to make combat fair while maintaining the fun and smooth experience from before.
All i asked and advocated for and im genuinely happy about their communication and level of selfreflection right now.
Really couldnt ask for much more.
Just wish i wouldve waited a few days with my post lol.
@offtherec said in What is the goal?:
After watching the new update video im very glad to say that rare indeed sees the same issues and are trying to make combat fair while maintaining the fun and smooth experience from before.
All i asked and advocated for and im genuinely happy about their communication and level of selfreflection right now.
Really couldnt ask for much more.Just wish i wouldve waited a few days with my post lol.
You don't know till you know. Being frustrated after changes and having criticisms about it ain't a big thang. It's understandable. I would just avoid the social media narratives that make it personal, like saying the game is dying over a change, or that this or that about the devs. Things that go beyond "hey, I/we don't like this and here is why". You definitely laid that out as well, which is very productive.
The rest is all good.
Rare isn't out to get anyone over changes to a live service game, they are just trying to create an environment that is as peaceful and fair as they can reasonably get it.
I think you got caught up in some of the narratives around BUT you handled yourself well throughout the thread and really showed an open mind about things. That's awesome.
I think frustration is the perfect word yes.
I also never meant to say the game was dying, me bringing up numbers was just to show that more people than just me were not enjoying the game in its current state.
Otherwise people here will claim that im the exception and just sad i cant spawncamp swabbies with my „exploits“ anymore.
@wolfmanbush said in What is the goal?:
@offtherec said in What is the goal?:
People just wanna play the game and have some fun, they largely don't care about the rest.
Exactly, but those people also dont care if their opponent uses a quickswitch because they likely dont even realize and dont take it that serious.
And that the numbers are tanking anyways just goes to show that a bigger part than expected may have enjoyed this more competetive side of the game and that QoL isnt everything, because as you said thats all they delivered so far this season.
The removal also doesnt guarantee new players not to loose anymore, it also doenst keep people from „bullying“ new crews if they actually want to.
Nothing has changed besides loosing players.
Who are we losing? the people that rarely play as it is and just constantly try to tear down any joy that people have in this game in the social areas? content creators that have benefited for years from what the game and community offered but now want to burn it down on their way out?
Who are we really losing here?
Everyone else seems to be having fun.
Everyone but the ones whom disagree with the latest volley of nerfs, but when we speak up you quickly inform us that we are the minority that makes the game bad?????
@offtherec said in What is the goal?:
You all realize that noone of you has any actual arguments and just keeps repeating „evil exploit“.
Rare never called it exploit, they never wanted to punish anyone for using it.
Watch the season 10 video where they announce the changes, they call it a technique and are even apologetic to players who used it.
And because im tired of repeating myself here you go.
„The intended part is debatable, it was the result of a patch they brought 3 years ago to instaswapping (shooting two bullets basically in the same milisecond) and its been left in the game for years untouched, what, to me, makes it seem like they were happy with it and that it worked how they wanted/intended it.
They changed their opinion, but they were obviously okay with how it was for a long time and when i joined sot, it was just considered a part of the game.“No one cares about the 0,2 seconds of „competetive advantage“ over new players, i actually explained that in the same answer already aswell.
„If the feeling of a smooth transition between weapons wouldve stayed and they simply increased the timer in between shots to match those of a normal switch, i am sure most people would be happy with it and not complain.“
100000000% it’s the massive penalty and the glitches stemming from it that we are mostly upset about.
Why does TTK seem to matter? If you die in 0.0009 seconds or get swordlorded for 2 full seconds, you STILL went to the ferry!!!! I’d rather die quick and get back to the ship.
@jon-sea-nah said in What is the goal?:
@wolfmanbush said in What is the goal?:
@offtherec said in What is the goal?:
People just wanna play the game and have some fun, they largely don't care about the rest.
Exactly, but those people also dont care if their opponent uses a quickswitch because they likely dont even realize and dont take it that serious.
And that the numbers are tanking anyways just goes to show that a bigger part than expected may have enjoyed this more competetive side of the game and that QoL isnt everything, because as you said thats all they delivered so far this season.
The removal also doesnt guarantee new players not to loose anymore, it also doenst keep people from „bullying“ new crews if they actually want to.
Nothing has changed besides loosing players.
Who are we losing? the people that rarely play as it is and just constantly try to tear down any joy that people have in this game in the social areas? content creators that have benefited for years from what the game and community offered but now want to burn it down on their way out?
Who are we really losing here?
Everyone else seems to be having fun.
Everyone but the ones whom disagree with the latest volley of nerfs, but when we speak up you quickly inform us that we are the minority that makes the game bad?????
It is not that it's a minority of feedback and players it is that it is a minority of players that are operating outside of the design and intent of the game, directly negatively impacting other players that feel it is unfair and have solid ground to make that claim on.
Minority of feedback should strongly be considered on things like accessibility (which it is) but when it comes to fairness and intent of design and overall balance then the majority of gameplay, as the game is designed, should be the priority.
Rare (recently) has been showing that they are willing to take the criticism to address fairness and consistency within their game on some of these changes. To me it doesn't even matter if I agree or not I just would like them to be more consistent and to serve more players a higher quality experience. They have reached that point, so for me it's easy to support many of these changes, no matter my personal opinion on this change or that change.
I do agree with what someone said above it seems a lot quieter in places, could be anecdotal, but even in my LFG’s I’m not seeing nearly the amount of posts usually 225-250 now more I. The 120-176 mark. Can things explain this? Sure but it’s also obvious enough that I’ve noticed it. A lot of players I used to play with, all console, most avg player skill are leaving because of the perceived stances on some things.
If people leave is it bad? Yes and no, new players can breathe a bit of life into the game. What sucks is SOT would’ve died without A LOT of backing from all types in the community when the game truly first started. We carved out a way to play the game in the desolate days of captains chest being THE DRIP lol. It sucks to watch companies start to turn their backs on people that helped them a ton.
@jon-sea-nah said in What is the goal?:
I do agree with what someone said above it seems a lot quieter in places, could be anecdotal, but even in my LFG’s I’m not seeing nearly the amount of posts usually 225-250 now more I. The 120-176 mark. Can things explain this? Sure but it’s also obvious enough that I’ve noticed it. A lot of players I used to play with, all console, most avg player skill are leaving because of the perceived stances on some things.
If people leave is it bad? Yes and no, new players can breathe a bit of life into the game. What sucks is SOT would’ve died without A LOT of backing from all types in the community when the game truly first started. We carved out a way to play the game in the desolate days of captains chest being THE DRIP lol. It sucks to watch companies start to turn their backs on people that helped them a ton.
I would not at all be surprised if it turned out a lot of servers are locked down from organically formed alliances which leads some to believe activity is significantly dropping.
Cofs are in the fotd, a stackable event which creates far more organic alliance situations, for long session times.
People want comms done, they want to chill, they organically form alliances pretty regularly.
It's not really dead out there, organic interest in pve is up. Pvers are pretty darn efficient and effective when they have some experience and want to put in the time to make server friends.
If servers are still at 5 ships per server that is ezpz for an organic alliance professional.
