Internal guild ranking and statistics

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    It would be good and even necessary to have a type of internal ranking in each guild, to know which players progress the most, even if this is only available for the leader to view.

    Knowing how many levels each player achieved while playing and how many points in the emissaries record... as I said would be something internal, not for comparison between guilds.

    For guilds that do not maintain contact between all players, this is necessary before making the decision to expel someone for not participating in anything or collaborating.

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  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    No offense, because it is not you it is Rare.

    They designed a guild system where it is profitable for guilds to kick members.

    Total, complete, social failure.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @lleorb said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    It would be good and even necessary to have a type of internal ranking in each guild, to know which players progress the most, even if this is only available for the leader to view.

    Knowing how many levels each player achieved while playing and how many points in the emissaries record... as I said would be something internal, not for comparison between guilds.

    For guilds that do not maintain contact between all players, this is necessary before making the decision to expel someone for not participating in anything or collaborating.

    TBH I don't know if this is even possible, or at least not accurate, because of the way they collect progress for guilds. Progress is recorded by ship, and only lists the player captaining that ship in the chronicle. If you have any other members on the ship with you it will not be recorded and their contribution is effectively zero from what we can tell.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @lleorb I actually talk about this and a few.other changes in a post I made earlier I definitely agree

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck it is easily possible for them to know who performed what on what ships. That's how regular emissary tracks individual players they just need to code a display system for the guild on individual efforts

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goutfoot-stiner said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    @d3adst1ck it is easily possible for them to know who performed what on what ships. That's how regular emissary tracks individual players they just need to code a display system for the guild on individual efforts

    Emissary is a modifier on individual players reputation and gold. Guild rep is associated with the ship and not the players (hence why you don't earn guild rep when not on a guild ship). They aren't quite the same thing, and therefore can't be assumed that it's an easily switchable thing if it was built in a way that doesn't record that information.

    It's likely given their history that beyond tweaks to reputation gain to fix the imbalance between PvE and HG that nothing else is going to be done with the Guild system.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck let me explain it another way. The other emissarys have programming to track an individual players emissary value correct. So you make a program exactly like that but instead of displaying to a leader board it displays everything you contribute to a guild internal information page that can be in the reputation when you click on it.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goutfoot-stiner said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    @d3adst1ck let me explain it another way. The other emissarys have programming to track an individual players emissary value correct. So you make a program exactly like that but instead of displaying to a leader board it displays everything you contribute to a guild internal information page that can be in the reputation when you click on it.

    I'm saying that they don't record that information, because all reputation goes to the guild (via the ship) and not the player. This makes it easy to add and remove players from guilds because you don't have to delete reputation data whenever someone leaves a guild since it's only stored in one place (the guild) and only gets wiped if the guild is disbanded.

    Switching that around at this point is probably going to be a major rework to the way they store guild reputation and not likely to happen.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck its simple to make a bit of code that when you're on a ship that is gaining value that is displays that value to a guild internal information page all they have to do is copy a system from one of the other emissaries and make it work that way. It would be like having a emissary leader board with in your own guild for the guild work. They already have a code they could copy and tweak for it.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @goutfoot-stiner Send them your implementation then I guess?

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @lleorb said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    It would be good and even necessary to have a type of internal ranking in each guild, to know which players progress the most, even if this is only available for the leader to view.

    Knowing how many levels each player achieved while playing and how many points in the emissaries record... as I said would be something internal, not for comparison between guilds.

    For guilds that do not maintain contact between all players, this is necessary before making the decision to expel someone for not participating in anything or collaborating.

    I hope you'd take into account people who just joined before turning in and people who had to take care of something else just before turning in, cause the numbers won't tell you.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @d3adst1ck I mean I have suggested it to rare already it would be nice to see them adjust guilds in certain ways. So we can monitor performance of the players in the guild.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    For guilds that do not maintain contact between all players, this is necessary before making the decision to expel someone for not participating in anything or collaborating

    Problem with this which many dont seem to...realize.
    Just being part of a guild ship and 'helping' the crew is participating.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @burnbacon right read some of my above posts and I talk about a simple coding to track stuff like that. That rare already has the coding for that they can just copy and tweak

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @lem0n-curry right and that's just the down side of being part of a guild that doesn't communicate unfortunately and odds are in a guild like that they will observe ship stats and if they don't see your ship in use much they might remove you anyways if your on other people's ships all the time and such. So with or with out the individual stats you would probably see those individuals still get kicked out.

    The way around it would be for more advanced stats to the Individual players than just score.

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    @goutfoot-stiner "...simple coding ..."

    As a developer (34 years experience) when I hear this as part of a request I know it is going to be bad 🤣

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @foambreaker lol devs copy and paste reusable code all the time. This is one of those situations when it's doable

    Also if you're going to make the claim you're a programmer at list throw some references out there. We need to verify

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    @goutfoot-stiner Oh so now it is a just a copy and paste job, never heard that one before. 🤣

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @foambreaker game companies do it all the time. Infact most companies get called lazy by thier own communities for doing it. This is one of those situations that I think the company should use the resources they have and copy some code.

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    @goutfoot-stiner

    If it's easy, code it and send it to Rare. There's a hiring link below too 😋

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @pithyrumble oh pfft and be on the receiving end of the community over bad decisions that rare makes no thank you

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @goutfoot-stiner said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    @lem0n-curry right and that's just the down side of being part of a guild that doesn't communicate unfortunately and odds are in a guild like that they will observe ship stats and if they don't see your ship in use much they might remove you anyways if your on other people's ships all the time and such. So with or with out the individual stats you would probably see those individuals still get kicked out.

    The way around it would be for more advanced stats to the Individual players than just score.

    And then have people interpret those while they don't understand fully the numbers ?

    Would people get thrown out because they have a low rep/time quotient - they might be fully dedicated to the guild but got sunk a few times or just spend playing music.

    Besides, people might not like to sharewith total strangers. for instance the time they spend playing - if even Rare is allowed to share that kind of information.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @lem0n-curry Because eventually guilds leaders will blame certain people for why they aren't making certain placements on the emissary leader boards with or without information. They'll assume the person with low ship use time isn't putting in the work to boost their numbers and kick them. Only guilds who communicate can understand the nuances of always being on another guild members ship or missing turn ins but still helping to get loot. At least extra data along with individual value numbers can help alleviate misunderstandings.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @d3adst1ck I don't think it would be difficult, it would just be taking the ship's statistics and applying it to a player tab.

    For example, if 4 players from the guild participate in a session, the statistics from that session will be applied to that player's tab... each of these 4 players will have the progress of the ship they participated in recorded.

    whether in a team or solo, this shows that the player contributed to the guild.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @lleorb I mean, everything can sound easy when you describe it at the top level.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @lem0n-curry

    I hope you'd take into account people who just joined before turning in and people who had to take care of something else just before turning in, cause the numbers won't tell you.

    These situations are exceptions, the player will not leave every time before selling... A statistic for the time played by the guild ship could also be added, that would solve the problem.

    @burnbacon

    Problem with this which many dont seem to...realize.
    Just being part of a guild ship and 'helping' the crew is participating.

    The statistics for hours spent on a guild ship would serve this purpose. the point is to give some information about what each player did in the guild and their contribution.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @d3adst1ck Statistics like these are not difficult to implement, time spent, gold earned, emissary points... these are things that are already tracked, as progress would continue to be made based on ships, not individuals is also a factor that makes it easier.

    Even if it were based on individuals and not the ship it would still be possible, more difficult but possible.

  • starbrightnight
    Castaway

    @goutfoot-stiner said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    @d3adst1ck I mean I have suggested it to rare already it would be nice to see them adjust guilds in certain ways. So we can monitor performance of the players in the guild.

    It is a game not a job. players should not have to have unnecessary pressure of feeling they might be kicked from a guild because they are not performing to what the guild leader thinks is acceptable. It is not up to the guild leader how often/how they play. the player might like doing stuff that is not the best for rep/gold. They should not have to think twice about if they are in good standing with guild before doing this lesser activity vs an activity to play catch up. Guild leaders are too obsessed with power over members and progress.

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @starbrightnight plenty of online games have expectancy when you're part of organizations, clans, guilds, or factions. Monitoring people in your group is always important

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    The only issue is that bottom barrel pvp is rewarded higher than top tier pvpve.

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    @goutfoot-stiner said in Internal guild ranking and statistics:

    @starbrightnight plenty of online games have expectancy when you're part of organizations, clans, guilds, or factions. Monitoring people in your group is always important

    Right but those guilds also have features that help keep people together, like guild chat and a grouping system that actually makes sense.

    In another game I play when I sign on I can say in Guild chat: Anyone want to do xyzzy?

    Or often I will get invited to something right away.

    With our guild I have to either use discord, hope a guild ship is sailing and has an empty crew position or sail with an empty ship and hope other guildies show up.

    IMHO before we start penalizing people for not participating they need to make signing up to participation make sense.

  • starbrightnight
    Castaway

    @goutfoot-stiner It doesn't matter how many "other games" do it. does not make it any more correct. it doesn't matter what the guild leader wants, players in a GAME should be able to play how THEY want now how the "leader" wants. Nothing you say will ever change my mind on this. waste your time replying if you wish but I have no reason to return. I have said what i wanted, no reason to waste more time here. Good day.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @starbrightnight Players are free not to join a guild with progression or contribution rules.

    The proposal here is to create a tool to help monitor the progression of individuals in the guild, whether the rules for a guild will be strict or not depends on each player.

  • Lleorb
    Champion
    Insider
    Founder

    @foambreaker I would like a chat, it would be nice to communicate, but not having one yet is no reason not to implement a way of knowing who contributes to collective progress.

    Rare has made it so that only one guild can be progressed at a time, if a player has 3 guilds but only plays in one, why couldn't I expel him and give the place to whoever will contribute?

    I say we should, the point is that it's not easy to identify a player who doesn't contribute without these statistics to make a better decision, I expelled two players who I didn't even remember who they were because I didn't see them play in the guild even once, but I wasn't sure about that, just a perception from what I saw.

    **The current scenario is that we can exclude whoever we want from the guild, but we have no information to support this decision. **

  • GoutFoot Stiner
    Rogue

    @starbrightnight if you join a guild you're basically saying I am committing to what ever the goal of the guild is. If it doesn't match what you like don't be a part of that guild

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