Friendly Fire with Crew

All crew members have to vote yes to turn friendly fire on.

and during random pvp....everyone would have to stop what they are doing to unvote it.

It'd be super nice to see, a little bucket of wooden swords can be interacted with to vote for enable/disable friendly fire. Maybe even have it as an interactive trinket that you can just outright remove if you're never gonna use it, more options is always better!

@burnbacon

As we have been down this road many many times before why do you keep using the same failed arguments that have already been answered?

DAMAGE from any 3rd party turns off the duel.

Having health reduced to zero, turns off the duel.

Either player can exit the duel by doing the "I quit emote"

Leaving the duel area ends the duel.

It’s likely you know my stance already on this because of a recent post talking about the same thing, but I wanted to stop in and say I truly hope Rare never add this feature.

Some of you may think it’s what you really want and Rare should spend time developing a way to do this but from a true game enjoyment perspective, you’re gonna get sweats/toxic players joining open crews demanding players agree to fight them, and if they don’t, they’ll throw fire and blunderbombs everywhere and make the entire experience awful for everyone involved. If you don’t believe this would happen, you’re naïve.

I should also mention Rare did test this way back before release and said the experience felt horrible too, god only knows what it would be like now we have more tools available to us to disrupt the player experience further.

Before it’s mentioned too, I hold no sway over devs with decisions that are made and I’m certainly not gatekeeping, as it’s easily thrown around as an accusation nowadays.

Hard no against this as per, with no new reason given to change my mind.

@tesiccl

There are so many posts about this. About one every couple of weeks from a different player. Meanwhile only 2-3 of the same individuals weigh in against this. That should tell you something.

Sweats joining open crew? What you are describing is toxicity not sweats. Sweats want to sink players in PVP not duel team mates. They can already join and throw fire bombs etc. That is what the brig is for. More over if players just want to TDM, they would get on a discord server and find like minded individuals. The fear you are expressing is illogical at best. Worse case Rare gives us the option of black listing players from joining our open crews as well.

So this is a hard yes for 95% + who comment on it. I hope Rare listens.

@miserenz get out of here with your 95% lol. You have zero clue what the majority feel regarding this. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve put across legitimate concerns and every time I’m told “but that won’t happen” blah blah blah and completely ignore my points because they want it regardless of the damage it would do. It could and would happen and I strongly suspect that’s Rare’s fear too, which is probably why we’ll never (hopefully) see this feature.

@tesiccl

In the past 14 days there has been at least three threads from three different users on the topic
https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/161982/emote-to-duel-sword-fighting-practice/2
https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/162373/suggestion-dueling/1
https://www.seaofthieves.com/community/forums/topic/162834/add-a-sword-duel-game-mode-to-the-pvp-factions/1

Updated Pro list (21)
Arthur79474
BarDiDar
CroweDHunter
fgfoot
Ghutar
GrumpyW01f
HeyItsJay6312
OtherFanboy
Pugwash9586
UnstoppableDork
xXx Link xXX 12
ZiG ZaG LTU
CaptainPrice159
CaptnSuperDave
Eliminate
Lem0n Curry
Misere
MysticTrix91
offtherec
RLKaa
whalelordgames

Anti: 3
Tesiccl
PithyRumble
BurnBacon

15 v 3 So that is 83% right there (now 21 v 3 so 87%), if I dug back further I would find more and more threads on this, adding to the list of pro-dueling and the same three anti MAYBE one or two more. More over talking to my guild and other players I meet on the seas I am yet to find anyone who does not want dueling. So the guestimate is more than fair. I can't be bothered digging back in time further, you can and if you do provide links but moving forward every time a new player posts this suggestion, I'll add them to the list and post the running total.

To be clear, it is more than reasonable for you or others to give feed back or raise concerns. HOWEVER, after those concerns have been addressed and fixed to raise them over and over as if they have not is a little annoying and disingenuous, or suggests you are not really listening.

@miserenz I’m 100% reading what I see, but if I truly believed in the idea, I would have been swayed by now. Sadly, I’m not.

@eliminate sagte in Friendly Fire with Crew:

@tesiccl said in Friendly Fire with Crew:

@miserenz I’m 100% reading what I see, but if I truly believed in the idea, I would have been swayed by now. Sadly, I’m not.

Your points fall flat on the context that if someone's going to firebomb a ship, they'll do it anyway.

Exactly this, if someone wants to grief an open crew theyll find a way.
It all depends on how you would implement it.

Someone here mentioned the trinket idea which would be great. Have a trinket on your ship that each player needs to interact with to opt in, as soon as one player chooses to opt out it deactivates it for the entire crew.
Like that you will be able to react quickly if random pvp happens and if somebody tries to grief you you can opt out after dying once/twice.
Maybe place the same trinket on the ferry so people can opt out from there.

This solves every problem mentioned, you just need to give it a chance and think it through but that would require people on here to be open to ideas that are not their own which seems like an impossible challenge.

Issues I see

When you're fighting with your crew and another crew shows up (which you might have failed to notice as you're concentrated on fighting your crew), you are probably not fully healed and do not have 5 shots to fire against them.

When friendly fire is on and you fire the first shot(s), you might harm your crewmates as well (as it only would be automatically turned off when you get shot/stabbed/hurt by non-friendly fire).

The option for Friendly Fire sounds nice and fun perhaps, but smart crews won't be using it when there is something at stake.

@lem0n-curry sagte in Friendly Fire with Crew:

Issues I see

When you're fighting with your crew and another crew shows up (which you might have failed to notice as you're concentrated on fighting your crew), you are probably not fully healed and do not have 5 shots to fire against them.

When friendly fire is on and you fire the first shot(s), you might harm your crewmates as well (as it only would be automatically turned off when you get shot/stabbed/hurt by non-friendly fire).

The option for Friendly Fire sounds nice and fun perhaps, but smart crews won't be using it when there is something at stake.

Legit everyone just thinking of ways to say no instead of thinking how to make it possible.

The system of opting out when dmg taken from enemies is maybe not the best. But having a trinket or a menu option that only requires one crew member to opt out within a few seconds would solve that problem.

You already need to be aware of enemy ships approaching so it wouldnt even change anything about “playstyle” and you likely wouldnt start duelling your teammates in situation where sth is at stake.

Plus as its just an option no one would be required to do so at any point.

Literally no problem.

@offtherec said in Friendly Fire with Crew:

@lem0n-curry sagte in Friendly Fire with Crew:

Issues I see

When you're fighting with your crew and another crew shows up (which you might have failed to notice as you're concentrated on fighting your crew), you are probably not fully healed and do not have 5 shots to fire against them.

When friendly fire is on and you fire the first shot(s), you might harm your crewmates as well (as it only would be automatically turned off when you get shot/stabbed/hurt by non-friendly fire).

The option for Friendly Fire sounds nice and fun perhaps, but smart crews won't be using it when there is something at stake.

Legit everyone just thinking of ways to say no instead of thinking how to make it possible.

The system of opting out when dmg taken from enemies is maybe not the best. But having a trinket or a menu option that only requires one crew member to opt out within a few seconds would solve that problem.

So instead of reacting to another crew, the friendly fire crew is busy turning friendly fire off. They might have lost the first strike before they're able to turn it off. Finding themselves on the Ferry and returning to their ship with enemy crew having the upper hand.

You already need to be aware of enemy ships approaching so it wouldnt even change anything about “playstyle” and you likely wouldnt start duelling your teammates in situation where sth is at stake.

Even if they do check out if they're safe at the start of the friendly fire, they are probably busy with reacting to their own crew to keep looking out for other crews; if a person takes the time to have a look around, they probably will be shot by friendly fire during.

Plus as its just an option no one would be required to do so at any point.

Literally no problem.

People who start the friendly fire might not be aware of the drawbacks.

There is nothing wrong with adding consentual, opt-in combat

Ignore the concerns I’ve raised all you like, it isn’t changing how I feel on the matter.

@lem0n-curry

Catching another crew with their pants down is part of the game and a learning experience for everyone. Teaches players how to keep an eye on the horizon. The simple fix to this is not a just toggle on toggle off system but a limited duel.

Once someone dies the duel is turned off. Once your ship takes damage from a cannon or keg, it turns off. Etc.

Or as another player suggested. The duel starts new health bar, that takes Team Damage as well as normal damage. When you "die", you do a death emote and the duel is over for you. You have to run back to your ship to vote or redo the duel emote to get back into the duel. There, problem solved and the more I think about it the more I like this solution the most since.

If doing a world event, at a vault etc. Players are not going to be using this feature since they are focused on the task at hand. They will use it to pass the time sailing between islands or sail to an inactive fort to teach/practice. Players that are worried about this happening can simply not use it, the rest of us will. Like a lot.

So while this is a reasonable concern, it is not unfixable. To date this and the toxic crewmates argument are the only two in game objections to having this system.

@miserenz

@tesiccl a dit dans [Friendly Fire with Crew]

It’s likely you know my stance already on this because of a recent post talking about the same thing, but I wanted to stop in and say I truly hope Rare never add this feature.

Some of you may think it’s what you really want and Rare should spend time developing a way to do this but from a true game enjoyment perspective, you’re gonna get sweats/toxic players joining open crews demanding players agree to fight them, and if they don’t, they’ll throw fire and blunderbombs everywhere and make the entire experience awful for everyone involved. If you don’t believe this would happen, you’re naïve.

I should also mention Rare did test this way back before release and said the experience felt horrible too, god only knows what it would be like now we have more tools available to us to disrupt the player experience further.

Before it’s mentioned too, I hold no sway over devs with decisions that are made and I’m certainly not gatekeeping, as it’s easily thrown around as an accusation nowadays.

Hard no against this as per, with no new reason given to change my mind.

from the moment you can deactivate it whenever you want, its argument is still and always useless, let them post their arguments which have no meaning and no value, they are always the same ones on this forum to contradict the posts of other

@lem0n-curry

You dont read what im saying and just continue to say no.
If its an interaction that only one crewmate has to do, wether in menu or as a trinket on the ship, maybe place the same trinket on the ferry, the time one player will loose by turning it off will be so insignificant that it wont matter in 99% of the encounters.

Fighting your teammates wont distract you more from checking the horizon than doing a world event, searching for a dig, or doing a vault.
The risk of getting rolled up on while doing something is so much bigger in any other situation in this game than in a moment where you just choose to duel your crewmates for fun.
Also everytime someone dies you have time while waiting for them to respawn, so you can perfectly check the horizon for enemy ships, which you can see minutes before they actually catch up to you.

And still it would be optional and require everyone to agree, so none of you that apparently hate the idea so much would ever have to do it.

@offtherec said in Friendly Fire with Crew:

@lem0n-curry

You dont read what im saying and just continue to say no.
If its an interaction that only one crewmate has to do, wether in menu or as a trinket on the ship, maybe place the same trinket on the ferry, the time one player will loose by turning it off will be so insignificant that it wont matter in 99% of the encounters.

Assuming their crewmates know and assume the one player will turn it off - in most cases everyone that's aware of another crew will try to turn it off; wasting time and probably getting hits by the opponent.

Fighting your teammates wont distract you more from checking the horizon than doing a world event, searching for a dig, or doing a vault.
The risk of getting rolled up on while doing something is so much bigger in any other situation in this game than in a moment where you just choose to duel your crewmates for fun.
Also everytime someone dies you have time while waiting for them to respawn, so you can perfectly check the horizon for enemy ships, which you can see minutes before they actually catch up to you.

You're assuming it's a 1v1; if a galleon crew has turned friendly fire on, they'll be busy fighting with the others, wasting time and probably getting hits by the opponent.
You'd be surprised how many times a crew surprises another crew doing an event or even a voyage; this will add another way where crews can get caught.

And still it would be optional and require everyone to agree, so none of you that apparently hate the idea so much would ever have to do it.

I think it could have a place in Safer Seas (though they should change the name 😉), but as that won't include features not available in High Seas, that's a moo point.

It's not hate, it's looking after less experienced crews and IMO wasting dev resources on a feature that's hardly useable.

a surprised crew remains a surprised crew, there is no difference between going to an island and being surprised by an opponent's ship.

and assuming that your "argument" is true (just look at the horizon) a simple deactivation system when an enemy is too close can do the trick. In short, all I see on this post is that it's always the same person who tries to say no to a subject, by all means and especially with arguments that don't make sense in relation to the game.

@rlkaa said in Friendly Fire with Crew:

( ... ) a simple deactivation system when an enemy is too close can do the trick ( ... )

Will it cancel activation when an enemy is close as well ? If so it would be a great tucker detector :

Complete a fort
Start Friendly Fire before opening the vault
If it doesn't activate - you better check for other people on your ship & the fort

@lem0n-curry

Yes this is why I don't think a proximity trigger is the key. I used to think any 3rd party damage but now a duel health bar. So here is the system:

A duel emote that opts in for friendly fire, you get a second health bar that takes both friendly fire damage and normal damage from falling, fire, blunder bombs, non player crews and NPCs.

If you take 10 fire damage to the duel bar, you also take 10 fire damage to the standard health bar so it can't be used as a sheild.

This health bar recharges with food the same way as your standard health bar does but no over heal.

Once the duel health bar hits zero you do the death emote for 2secs and you reset back to being a normal pirate. You have to do the duel emote again to get the second bar back.

If anyone on your crew does the danger emote, it resets the crew so just one of you has to keep their wits about them.

@miserenz create a duel hp bar when it starts and when its exhausted, it goes back to the normal health, so you dont actually die. If an outside player hits it though, then it will cancel the duel and damage you normally. You came up with some amazing ideas to polish it, but dont worry, because we will still have people hating on it, because they are closed minded individuals.

@tesiccl Here is the solution that I have come up with to satisfy your needs. I really hope you read it and tell me what is missing.

1. Duels are initiated via a shared emote where both parties accept it
2. duels give you a blue health bar that, when diminished, you go back to normal health, and you don't die
3. if struck by an enemy, the duel is cancelled, and the damage is done accordingly to you as it normally would
4. When in the duel there will be a default emote menu when you hold Z, and one emote will be quit duel. you can press it very quickly
5. Everybody has fun, and the trolls get no benefit.

Let us, as a community, figure out how to address the problems instead of just pointing them out. Let's work together to get the features the players want, and remember, everyone wants different things.

Seems like a fun idea to practice swordfighting. As long as trolls don't missuse it I don't see what can go wrong.

@miserenz said in Friendly Fire with Crew:

@lem0n-curry

Yes this is why I don't think a proximity trigger is the key. I used to think any 3rd party damage but now a duel health bar. So here is the system:

A duel emote that opts in for friendly fire, you get a second health bar that takes both friendly fire damage and normal damage from falling, fire, blunder bombs, non player crews and NPCs.

If you take 10 fire damage to the duel bar, you also take 10 fire damage to the standard health bar so it can't be used as a sheild.

This health bar recharges with food the same way as your standard health bar does but no over heal.

Once the duel health bar hits zero you do the death emote for 2secs and you reset back to being a normal pirate. You have to do the duel emote again to get the second bar back.

If anyone on your crew does the danger emote, it resets the crew so just one of you has to keep their wits about them.

This seems to take away most of the concerns, assuming

If you take 10 fire damage to the duel bar, you also take 10 fire damage to the standard health bar so it can't be used as a sheild.

also includes blunderbomb & keg damage and environmental damage- only shots & slashes from a crewmate should not impact your normal healthbar.

@lem0n-curry

Yes any normal damage that you would get is applied to both, I should have been a little clearer there. Shall I put you in the pro list?

@eliminate he went to complain on other forum topics lol. I wonder if he does it on purpose to promote the topic and problem-solving, and secretly likes the ideas.

@eliminate No. I muted this thread to stop arguments from happening and getting spammed. Again, it doesn’t matter the way you present the duel, it’s still open to abuse. Back to being muted.

@alienmagi I really don't understand. Like, how does one develop this mindset? especially over a game that the community wants to make better.