The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    The name of the topic says it all.
    In all the advertisement materials, developer interviews and other sources of media everyone tries to assure you that the game is all about having fun, doing voyages, exploring the content, that this game sure has plenty of. Fighting other players isn't even shown that much in trailers and ad's, compared to PvE content footage.

    But the reality you face when you hop in, is that its a crude sweatlord world where everyone else's goal is to ruin your experience just for the sake of feeling dominant (not even for the sake of getting your loot), as if this is some sort of battle royale game. Except its not being advertised as one. And the facade that the developers and marketers of the game try to maintain is misleadingly avoiding this sweaty "git gud or suffer" concept of the game, that many other games have and admit nowadays.

    Except when you try to discover the game content, have some fun across the beautiful world of the game, your experience gets inevitably ruined by some toxic crew that chases you down not even to rob you, but to just kill you over and over again before finally sinking your ship after 15 minutes of spawncamping on your ship, which has neither emissary flag nor loot because you just logged on to fish or something. Or anything else. And the only answers you get is "get better", "sail better", "this is a game about pirates", "delete the game" from players, and same ideas but phrased more official from devs and moderators.

    One might make a mistake thinking that its just the toxic community turning this game into solely ship combat with racial slurs, while the devs intended people to do both PvE content and PvP. After all, we have many examples of games ruined by attracting toxic sweaty communities, and there isn't much the devs can do about it.
    Well, this ain't no such case. The devs clearly like this state of the game, and intend it to be like that, judging by their actions and responses to frustrated players. They removed the arena mode, which took away at least a small portion of these PvP sweat lords and streamers. They added a faction, who get emissary flag leveled up literally by killing and sinking people, not just stealing somebody else's loot. And once again, the way they respond to those who are frustrated by what this game actually turns out to be says everything.

    People who just want to have some fun, hop on for a couple of voyages for 1-2 hours, without dedicating their life to mastering blunderbuss shooting skills and bunny hopping while juggling fire bombs, arent welcome here. Those, who do sessions of 5+ hours consisting solely of sinking and killing even those who have no emissary flag and just started their session are welcome here. They rule this realm and developers are so proud of them, they advise everyone to be like them.

    And there's no changing that, I understand. Clearly this is the way it was, is and will be. But stop your false hypocritical advertisement then, because it is annoying. When you watch ad materials of Escape from Tarkov you know that its hard and you gonna die a lot. When you watch ad materials for any moba game or battle royale you know its going to be very competetive and sweaty, and that you have to "git gud" to enjoy it. And so on. You know these facts and you either accept the challenge and play the game, or you just ignore it because its not what you like in games. Stop trying to make people who havent bought the game yet think its not a sweaty game where everyone is trying to kill you like in battle royales and looter shooters.

    It is what you are telling people to expect on forums after they already bought the game and find out that the game is actually like that. Be fair than and stop maintaining the facade that clearly doesnt match your vision for the game and community's majority intentions.

    Writing this post after getting my solo sloop without emissary flag and only a bait crate on board with the intent of fishing ruined by a reaper brig just for the amusement after 15 minutes of being spawncamping massacre. And having to sink the ship and switch seas for 11 times to find one without reapers.

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  • heslashthem
    Champion
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    Boatswain

    @derpyhoowes SoT is a PvPvE game. You’re going to have to PvP at some point. If you don’t like that, then this game is not for you. I’m not trying to drive you away but as confirmed by the mods and dev team, the game isn’t going to change in nature.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @tesiccl I said I know its not going to change, you dont have to write me something that I've read hundreds of times under other frustrated people's posts (jeez it almost stats to seem that these comments are written by bots).
    Im just very annoyed how all the advertisement materials and the whole attitude of dev and marketing teams of the game completely ignore it and lure people in by trying to market it as a casual game for fun with PvE and PvP, while in fact its 90% PvP, whether you want it or not, and a very skill dependent one.
    Going into a game with 4 weapon types and 2 throwables I didnt know its so sweaty and that I wouldn't even be able to defend myself from huge crews of sweats with thousands of hours of ship battling and mostly ignoring the PvE content.

    This isnt the game that they try to look like.

  • heslashthem
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    Boatswain

    @derpyhoowes its a shame your experience is different to a lot of players but I truly don’t agree with your statement about false advertising. The reason being is it’s not in Rare’s control to what players do day to day. All that’s promised is a mixture of adventure with the ability to fight crews you come across if you choose. It’s nothing about 50% PvE/50% PvP, that’s a nonsense way of thinking.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @tesiccl hmmm, I wonder how adding a faction that is entirely based on PvP and doesnt require you to do anything except for killing and pillaging others to get the same amount of profit as other factions that actually require you to do some voyages affects the amount of PvP that is going to happen...

    Its not "encountering PvP eventually", its not "the ability to fight crews you come across if you choose". Its encountering PvP literally 4 out of 5 sessions by being noticed by other crew without any choice given because they made theirs. Should have mentioned that at least once, but no.

    Everytime this happens I remember buying this game after watching many trailers, reading posts and watching dev interviews and everytime I think I got scammed. Not like I have a choice now, because no other game offers this kind of sailing and exploring content in first person action wrap and I have to deal with it, but maybe if the devs and marketing were a bit more honest, I wouldn't have bought it and get dragged into this.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
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    Founder

    Which pieces of marketing don't show the PvP side of the game?

  • Zeyrniyx
    Captain
    Insider

    @tesiccl a dit dans Le jeu est mal annoncé comme étant une question de plaisir et d'aventure tout en étant en fait un havre de sueur :

    @derpyhoowes SoT est un jeu PvPvE. Vous allez devoir faire du JcJ à un moment donné. Si vous n'aimez pas ça, alors ce jeu n'est pas pour vous. Je n'essaie pas de vous chasser, mais comme l'ont confirmé l'équipe de mods et de développement, le jeu ne va pas changer dans la nature.

    What he's saying in his post, and he's quite right, is that there's false advertising. Or at least it comes very close to it.
    The term "adventure" says it all: there's almost never any mention of combat between players (except in certain cases).
    When they sometimes talk about "cooperation between players", the reality is quite different.

    So either it's clearly false advertising. Or it's the players who don't understand the game and are doing everything they can to ruin the experience of others.

    It's a fact.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @d3adst1ck and did I ever say in the post that its not shown in any pieces of marketing? You are questioning the statements I never made, only ones you made by lack of attention to what I wrote.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    Something I would do if I were in a spot where I had some pull is I would put a little time before starting the game and having people go wild in the emporium.

    Let people experience a few pvp encounters before opening up the paid shop.

    I understand why they do what they do for marketing, I think it's reasonable and understandable for purchasing the game/gamepass/etc but for the fairly expensive extra cosmetics I'd let people get a bit more informed by their own encounters on what pvp feels like before the extra coin is spent.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck and did I ever say in the post that its not shown in any pieces of marketing? You are questioning the statements I never made, only ones you made by lack of attention to what I wrote.

    This:

    Im just very annoyed how all the advertisement materials and the whole attitude of dev and marketing teams of the game completely ignore it

    Seems to suggest that they are not showing it. You ignoring the parts you don't like is not the same as the marketing and developers trying to hide them. There is PvP in every trailer. It's mentioned in text articles. It's listed on the stores or by other players tagging the game or commenting. Reviews all mention the ability to fight other players.

    Whenever this complaint comes up I always wonder what exactly would make you happy? A permanent disclaimer/warning displayed at all times warning about PvP?

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @zeyrniyx actually, you made me remember sometimes they seriously try to show cooperation in ads and make commendations based on cooperation between player crews. I completely forgot about that, its good point. As if cooperation ever happens in the game, lol.
    I definitely wouldn't agree with the "there's almost never any mention of combat between players (except in certain cases)." part, but its all about the ratio of PvE, cooperative footage and combat footage. Combat is never shown more in trailers and marketing than PvE content, while in fact its a way larger part of gaming experience of sweat lord gamers they cater so much, and as a consequence, it is a way larger part of gaming experience even of those, who are equally interested in PvP and PvE and those who are more interested in PvE and world exploring.

    You gonna have to warn people and show in content the PvP combat system of the game, especially how sweaty and skill dependent it is, if its something that players will participate in for the majority of their playing time, no matter willingly or not.

  • Zeyrniyx
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    @d3adst1ck a dit dans The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven :

    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck and did I ever say in the post that its not shown in any pieces of marketing? You are questioning the statements I never made, only ones you made by lack of attention to what I wrote.

    This:

    Im just very annoyed how all the advertisement materials and the whole attitude of dev and marketing teams of the game completely ignore it

    Seems to suggest that they are not showing it. You ignoring the parts you don't like is not the same as the marketing and developers trying to hide them. There is PvP in every trailer. It's mentioned in text articles. It's listed on the stores or by other players tagging the game or commenting. Reviews all mention the ability to fight other players.

    Whenever this complaint comes up I always wonder what exactly would make you happy? A permanent disclaimer/warning displayed at all times warning about PvP?

    So remove the word "adventure" from all advertising. And change it to "fighting game", "competitive" or whatever.

    When you say that pvp is present in all the videos, that's half false. It's downplayed, to say the least.

    The only commercials where pvp is clearly established are during certain adventures, the arena or season 8.

    However, without any advertising, there's talk of a manhunt that can go on forever.
    All the ads show encounters between players that are often amusing or friendly. In reality, this is very rare.

  • heslashthem
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    Boatswain

    @d3adst1ck I think we all know what OP wants but can’t say it cause they know Rare won’t do it and the mods will drop anchor on the post ;p

  • PithyRumble
    Rogue
    Insider

    As someone who doesn't enjoy pvp encounters due to anxieties:

    Marketing does need to lean into the aggressive nature of the game.

    I do not have the same problems with pvp other players do because I play console/controller preferred. I derp around in my sloop doin' voyages, shrines, tales and a lot of other things.

    Also, reapers do not gain anything besides supplies if they're killing you for fun. That went away with arena. Reapers have to take loot or sink an emissary to gain rep. They were likely draining your supplies and if they said otherwise you should record and report. Camping for the sake of camping isn't allowed and you can hit back 😉

    As a non sweat, I do have fun in adventure. Especially when I play with my kids.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @d3adst1ck what they dont show is how being mediocre at PvP can ruin your whole experience, and that it turns out you have to "git gud" in order to simply defend yourselves, not let alone be agressive, which I dont even intend to do.
    Because all they answer to frustrated people is that if their experience is being ruined by other players, it means that they're not good enough at the game.
    I dont ever recall the trailers or any media mentioning that you have to be competitive just to be able to defend yourselves and not get your whole session ruined.

  • Caragas
    Seafarer

    Ohh yeah Sea of thieves pvp is one if not the most sweaty pvp out there. If your a casual or even ''good'' you will get wrecked by the most toxic sweaty players that only play this game but it is what it is and you must move on.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @zeyrniyx said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    So remove the word "adventure" from all advertising. And change it to "fighting game", "competitive" or whatever.

    Because it's an adventure game. Adventures have fighting.

    When you say that pvp is present in all the videos, that's half false. It's downplayed, to say the least.

    The only commercials where pvp is clearly established are during certain adventures, the arena or season 8.

    Any trailer aimed at attracting new players includes PvP. All update trailers, events, and even the pre-release E3 teaser has PvP present. A lot of people just prefer to ignore that (because they aren't interested, which is fine) and then complain about it later. That doesn't mean that the game is not upfront about what it is providing.

  • Sailor Shu
    Master
    Insider

    @tesiccl You're missing the point OP is making.

    I do agree that the promotional material tends to downplay how prevalent PvP is in this game. I honestly think Rare sees the game differently than what the community turned it into.

  • Zeyrniyx
    Captain
    Insider

    @derpyhoowes a dit dans Le jeu est mal annoncé comme étant une question de plaisir et d'aventure tout en étant en fait un havre de sueur :

    @d3adst1ck ce qu'ils ne montrent pas, c'est comment être médiocre au JcJ peut ruiner toute votre expérience, et qu'il s'avère que vous devez "git gud" afin de simplement vous défendre, et non moins d'être agressif, ce que je n'ai même pas l'intention de faire.
    Parce que tout ce qu'ils répondent aux gens frustrés, c'est que si leur expérience est ruinée par d'autres joueurs, cela signifie qu'ils ne sont pas assez bons au jeu.
    Je ne me souviens jamais des bandes-annonces ou des médias mentionnant que vous devez être compétitif juste pour pouvoir vous défendre et ne pas ruiner toute votre session.

    D'autant plus que nous savons tous que la cible prioritaire pour le développement est les joueurs occasionnels. Pas de fous délirants comme moi, comme beaucoup ici. C'est pourquoi je le dis clairement. Il y a une tendance à induire les gens en erreur dans la publicité et j'espère que c'est (involontairement) And we're not talking about making a pve server. I say this just in case, because whenever we question something, it's always "do you want a pve server?

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    Marketing does need to lean into the aggressive nature of the game.

    This ^
    Thats exactly what I meant.
    Commeting this just because some people seem to not understand my point, maybe this way it will be more clear.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck what they dont show is how being mediocre at PvP can ruin your whole experience, and that it turns out you have to "git gud" in order to simply defend yourselves, not let alone be agressive, which I dont even intend to do.
    Because all they answer to frustrated people is that if their experience is being ruined by other players, it means that they're not good enough at the game.
    I dont ever recall the trailers or any media mentioning that you have to be competitive just to be able to defend yourselves and not get your whole session ruined.

    This is a ridiculous argument. Do they also need to show how being bad at PvE can ruin your experience? Why not?

  • heslashthem
    Champion
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    Boatswain

    @derpyhoowes

    Everytime this happens I remember buying this game after watching many trailers, reading posts and watching dev interviews and everytime I think I got scammed. Not like I have a choice now, because no other game offers this kind of sailing and exploring content in first person action wrap and I have to deal with it, but maybe if the devs and marketing were a bit more honest, I wouldn't have bought it and get dragged into this.

    And this is somehow Rare’s fault? No.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @gotszu perhaps, but as I mentioned in the post, they seem to be more than okay with its current state, as they feed the same pill of "you're not good enough if you get sunk all the time" to those who are disappointed with how the game reality differs to the picture they try to present in all the media. Just my vision of it, anyways.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @tesiccl imagine buying a bottle labeled Ketchup in store, just to come home and find out its actually full of hot Tabasco sauce. False packaging? Nah man, its just your fault, you should have expected it.
    I know its over exaggerated, but so far its the best analogy I came up with.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @tesiccl imagine buying a bottle labeled Ketchup in store, just to come home and find out its actually full of hot Tabasco sauce. False packaging? Nah man, its just your fault, you should have expected it.
    I know its over exaggerated, but so far its the best analogy I came up with.

    Your analogy only applies if there was absolutely no mention of tabasco on the packaging at all, not that it wasn't big enough for you or you overlooked it and then were surprised at the spiciness afterwards.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @d3adst1ck look at how they show PvP in game trailers, and compare it to your average fight in the game. The way they show PvP is just goofy and very casual. Nothing like your average combat experience in game.
    Every game has its sweats and overly experienced players who would wipe the wall even with a mediocre player, not just a newbie, but in this game even if you're experienced enough, but just cant be above-average at combat, you're getting the wall wiped with you by mostly anyone you come across, not just some streamers and guy who have 8k hours of just combat.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @tesiccl it would be foolish to want something that I know will never happen. I gave up all hopes on PvE only mode the moment I first saw the SoT discussions.
    As I said, Im mainly disappointed by the game's facade being completely different with whats actually going on in it.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck look at how they show PvP in game trailers, and compare it to your average fight in the game. The way they show PvP is just goofy and very casual. Nothing like your average combat experience in game.

    You'll need to provide an example of what you consider "goofy/casual PvP" vs the "serious/hardcore PvP" they should be showing, and be able to showcase within a 1 min trailer for a game that is generally goofy in every aspect, while also reserving time for other content being released or showcased at the same time.

  • Zeyrniyx
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    @tesiccl a dit dans The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven :

    @derpyhoowes

    Everytime this happens I remember buying this game after watching many trailers, reading posts and watching dev interviews and everytime I think I got scammed. Not like I have a choice now, because no other game offers this kind of sailing and exploring content in first person action wrap and I have to deal with it, but maybe if the devs and marketing were a bit more honest, I wouldn't have bought it and get dragged into this.

    And this is somehow Rare’s fault? No.

    No, I'd say it's the fault of a lot of the players who sully the game.
    When you see that the only response you can read when you talk about pvp is "sea of THIEVES" I always answer them with another question "who's stealing from whom?" and each time they don't know what to say.

    The hourglass is totally destroyed because of a minority of players.
    Some adventures, notably the 6th, have seen their experience and purpose destroyed by the players.

    That's why I don't think Rare is intentionally engaging in false advertising (I hope not, in any case), but I am convinced that the players themselves are responsible for the state of the game. And to talk about adventures when the only thing many players will probably see is being harassed for a miserable chest... What an adventure! So either it's the developers who don't understand their community, or it's the players who don't understand the game. Especially since a small comment on a subject can send a crowd into a frenzy, saying "if you're not happy, just change the game". And to think I was promised a welcoming community. I've seen some nasty comments towards certain players, and I've seen a lot more than warm comments...

    I'd seen here and there that Sea Of Thieves brought out the worst in human beings, and I've come to believe it.

  • Zeyrniyx
    Captain
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    @d3adst1ck a dit dans The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven :

    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck look at how they show PvP in game trailers, and compare it to your average fight in the game. The way they show PvP is just goofy and very casual. Nothing like your average combat experience in game.

    You'll need to provide an example of what you consider "goofy/casual PvP" vs the "serious/hardcore PvP" they should be showing, and be able to showcase within a 1 min trailer for a game that is generally goofy in every aspect, while also reserving time for other content being released or showcased at the same time.

    8mns into the video. The reality of the fighting is quite different...

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @zeyrniyx said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    8mns into the video. The reality of the fighting is quite different...

    Not sure what you expect them to show? They clearly have all the basic elements of player combat on display in an easily digestible format that you don't need to spend a half hour watching. It's a gameplay walkthrough, not an exhaustive deep dive.

    I don't know how you could watch that entire thing and then be disappointed when another player boards your ship and kills you.

  • DerpyHoowes
    Sailor

    @d3adst1ck watch any hardcore PvP SoT youtuber video. Their combat footage is way closer to reality than what they show in trailers (what looks like a bunch of people who just bought the game battling each other for the very first time). Sure, it will be above your average foe's skills, but the things they show in trailers are so much below average, it would be a lot more fair than the marketing we currently have.

  • D3ADST1CK
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    @derpyhoowes said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    @d3adst1ck watch any hardcore PvP SoT youtuber video. Their combat footage is way closer to reality than what they show in trailers (what looks like a bunch of people who just bought the game battling each other for the very first time). Sure, it will be above your average foe's skills, but the things they show in trailers are so much below average, it would be a lot more fair than the marketing we currently have.

    Which games uses hardcore player footage for marketing materials?

    You're comparing apples to oranges.

    We've already established that a lot of players don't watch and/or understand even the most basic gameplay videos. Those same players aren't going to watch clip videos.

  • Zeyrniyx
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    @d3adst1ck a dit dans The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven :

    @zeyrniyx said in The game is being misadvertised as being about fun and adventure while actually being a sweatlord haven:

    8mns into the video. The reality of the fighting is quite different...

    Not sure what you expect them to show? They clearly have all the basic elements of player combat on display in an easily digestible format that you don't need to spend a half hour watching. It's a gameplay walkthrough, not an exhaustive deep dive.

    I don't know how you could watch that entire thing and then be disappointed when another player boards your ship and kills you.

    You ask for an example of advertising, I'll give you one...
    Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, but as someone here said, the way they're doing it is clumsy.
    In over 7200 hours of play, countless fights, I've never seen a fight like this...
    This advert speaks volumes, as the title talks about "gameplay"...

    Personally, I'm not disappointed ;)

  • heslashthem
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    Boatswain

    @derpyhoowes exactly, you’re exaggerating. Just stop 🤣

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