Where is Sea of Thieves' Ironforge or Stormwind?

@parrotlord6426 said in Where is Sea of Thieves' Ironforge or Stormwind?:

The main idea issued in the debate was a kind of safe zone in the game - an Island, or a port/city whatever. Like Tortuga is, kinda as a safe place for pirates to hang out. Thats meant to be IN the game.

And now you've cornered yourself in an area that cannot be defended. No safe zones in the Adventure World. It takes boats and players away from server activity, which is the exact reason why we don't have tavern games at outposts.

@tesiccl if you ever played classic/vanilla wow you know that booty bay isn’t a safe zone at all. Neither would my proposed reworked sea dog tavern be. You’d have to be smart and outplay players and npc but it would not be off the table at all. Let’s say you’d have to turn in loot there - tucking and surprising players there and getting increased chaos through npc interaction would probably be a common sight.

@nex-stargaze I cornered my self in what now?

Why are yall so passive aggressive. Can`t you handle different ideas? For real now, you dont need to like it, but stay on some decent manner of communication at least...

I cornered myself, blabla, but you are forgetting the entire plattform we are on: a feedback and suggestions forum dude. Read it above the title if you missed that.

Besides this was not even my idea, i just tried to be nice explaining to you things you obviously could have read yourself if you spent 5 minutes actually looking through the posts before fail-commenting on something u have not yet understood.

I regret having tried to inform you though. Clearly you are not able to hold a decent respectful manner of conversation.

That passive aggressive attitude from some people in the forum who cannot handle different ideas or opinions is really annoying, ngl

@parrotlord6426 said in Where is Sea of Thieves' Ironforge or Stormwind?:

@nex-stargaze I cornered my self in what now?

Why are yall so passive aggressive. Can`t you handle different ideas?

This idea has been explored several times, with the same results. The only way this idea doesn't get denied, is if it actually gets put in the game.

It's one thing if "player mindset" allows people to believe that the game isn't being advertised correctly to casuals, it's another when you're subtly suggesting a safe zone - safe zones that can barely be compatible with the adventure world - as an idea worth putting into the game. It's just a hard no from most people that understand the nature of the game.

Shirah and I don't agree on much, but I do support what she says: Safe Zones are very much areas that can lead to issues Rare has already foresaw just by observing how their community reacts to the world without it. Hence why the only "safe zone" is the one where you, and other players, are dead. Your boat is still on the server so resources can be taken from it, and it's one small area where there's not much to interact with, getting you out of there and back into the actual multiplayer game.

Also, cut this "passive aggressive" argument out mate. If a Forum moderator that very much has been around for years and has accurate information to tell you, I'm sorry to say, they know what they are talking about, and you should at the very least, understand, agree to disagree, and keep it moving. This complaining about passive aggressiveness is not how you should publicly dismiss information, opinions, and facts you don't agree with.

@nex-stargaze

I dont know if this idea has ever been explored. I dont think it has. Certainly not within the game. So I read you dont like the idea. Fair enough, more power to you. But I dont care about that mate. Its still my opinion.
I am just one guys among others btw. And this idea - again - did not even come from me. Why are u trying to bash on me. I dont understand. What are you trying to achieve? I am not stupid, I think I understand the dynamics here, but, you need to understand, you cannot have a feedback forum and then always try to shut down unwanted feedback. Kinda eradicates the entire point of having a forum in the first place.

Regarding your comment about my debate with the moderator:
I dont know why you would care or try to interfere here. For your information. I do not care what "status" anybody has: If a moderator joins the debate, then why should he/be not be up to be debated. Clearly he/she wants to debate, otherwise why would he/she have joined it.

Regarding disrespect/respect/decency issue:
Disrespectful behaviour is Disrespectful behaviour. Does not matter who voices it.
I deserve decent manner towards me, same as others deserve. And passive aggressive behaviour does not end simply because of the status someone has. If anything its easier to abuse power when you have a status.
Thats probably why the moderator decided to be more careful in his/her later comments towards me. Because he saw my point, even if he/she probably did not intend to be, it came across like it. Sometimes words can be missjudged or come across different than intended.
Same as you are now more careful in this comment than you had been in your first, when you tried to bash on me because I told you an idea the thread has voiced, and idea that you had gotten wrong.

Furthermore:
I dont care if a moderator thinks he/she knows what he/she is talking about. Once a person joines the debate, he/she is up to be debated. Thats how I view it. Again, I dont know why you would even care, but it seems to be as if you just tried, again, to find a way to shut down unwanted opinions from being voiced. "Sit down and shush when a moderator speaks" - really?

Maybe you can cut this passive aggressive attitude. Then there is no reason for me to adress it.

This complaining about passive aggressiveness is not how you should publicly dismiss information, opinions, and facts you don't agree with.

This can very best be viewed as a attempt to gaslight/manipulate, since I did not use the complaint about passive agg. to shut down unwanted opinions or information - I did in fact continue the conversation in a respectful manner and answer/try to debate those points. In one moment you acknowledge that I did answer (and tell me to stop debating a moderator), in the next moment you try to set up the narrative I would not answer and try to shut down informations I cannot handle. What is it now.

Now, back to the debate:

Safe Zones are very much areas that can lead to issues Rare has already foresaw just by observing how their community reacts to the world without it.

Well, what issues to be exact? Right now this is a "just because" statement. Maybe me and others are too simple to understand. Enlighten us.

Oh I am not subtle suggesting a safe zone. I am very openly a fan of that idea. I do really think the game would benefit from it. Hum, mate, thats the topic of the whole thread.
Your opinion is that it takes away from the main game, and that its not compatible with adventure - got it. But my opinions is vastly different mate. My opinion is it would add to the main game, by giving more options to enjoy it. After all, there are many areas in the game set up for community - but they are always barren.
Well, i voiced multiple other arguments for my opinion too. I guess I dont need to repeat them. I dont need to convince you either. You have your opinion - more power to you.

The game needs a Pirate Town!
I miss the Arena lobby vibes.

@gotszu oh yeah can’t wait to be called slurs, have loud music be blasted in my ears, called disgusting names, spammed party invites, and bucketed more than half the time when stuck in one place with all of the server. No thanks.

@tesiccl

You do have a point lol.

Still, some of my most memorable and fun interactions took place in the Arena lobbies. I think the toxicity was mostly due to the fact that the lobby was tied to the upcoming/previous Arena game.
A Town/Lobby dedicated to hanging out, roleplaying and eventually gathering a crew would likely go a long way in reducing toxicity as the playerbase would get to interact with itself outside of the risk/reward formula of regular adventure.

Also I wanna flex my cosmetics.

@gotszu listen I get the point, a nice spot for us to chill sounds lovely, it does, but I’m a cynic and seeing this game and how it’s changed over the last 5 years, I’ve become very pessimistic in giving players the chance to do the right thing and be mature and not do what I said above. This is mostly why I advocate against these types of things cause it’s naive to assume players wouldn’t be that way. Trust, i want to flex on people, it’s fun, but not at the expense of my own sanity considering some behaviour 🤣

@tesiccl

Yeah, maybe it's too late and the community is already rotten lol, wouldn't be surprised.
A pirate can dream!

@gotszu rotten is a touch harsh. I think players can improve their behaviour, I’m just not crossing any fingers! 😅

Sea of Thieves is a PVPVE game. World of Warcraft is an MMORPG... both are entirely different.

Sea of Thieves has 16 players on a server... imagine how empty Ironforge would be with only 16 people being in it?

Maybe in the successor to Sea of Thieves, using Unreal Engine 5 or 6, we will have more players on a server... but for now there really isn't a reason to have a "social hub" within the game.

@gotszu

Still, some of my most memorable and fun interactions took place in the Arena lobbies.

Just wanted to highlight this point that I also made great memories in the arena lobby, it wasn’t all doom and gloom. My current crew mate and probably closest internet friend was met through an Arena lobby, this was post all crews muted so had to use pirate chat at first, but the moment I got into a party with him, we clicked. I’ll never forget that first session and I’m extremely grateful to the lobby to have been lucky to make a friend I would now do anything for.

@sairdontis

@merlin-mav-k I think what’s unique about the game is that there is no community settled place we all converge to meet. I know when setting up some alliance servers in the past, we all agreed to meet at Castaway Isle because it’s in the middle of the map for ease. Other than that, I’d maybe argue Port Merrick considering it’s a proper port town and looks beautiful.

I’d also argue that the game doesn’t need a ‘Stormwind or Ironforge’. The tavern is the place we meet.

Refer yourself to this response at the beginning of OP’s post, this answers everything perfectly before it devolved into chaos. And just an fyi, I’ve played WoW for half my life, I know what Stormwind and Ironforge are ;)

Ferry.

Can’t kill what’s already dead.

@sairdontis semantics, that’s the last I’ll say on this. Happy sailing pirate!

@parrotlord6426 said in Where is Sea of Thieves' Ironforge or Stormwind?:

I am just one guys among others btw. And this idea - again - did not even come from me. Why are u trying to bash on me. I dont understand. What are you trying to achieve? I am not stupid, I think I understand the dynamics here, but, you need to understand, you cannot have a feedback forum and then always try to shut down unwanted feedback. Kinda eradicates the entire point of having a forum in the first place.

Placing an opinion on a public forum leads to someone having disagreement, and you either agree to disagree, or try to carefully argue your points so that all parties involved understand and come to some kind of conclusion.

Regarding your comment about my debate with the moderator:
I dont know why you would care or try to interfere here. For your information. I do not care what "status" anybody has: If a moderator joins the debate, then why should he/be not be up to be debated. Clearly he/she wants to debate, otherwise why would he/she have joined it.

Shirah is not only a Forum moderator here, but a moderator of the Official Discord. While I am currently not there to review or cite anything of her efforts, it's a sign to me that they are trusted by community managers, other moderators, and Rare employees. Her position on the Official Discord gives her perfect citing for how the pre-game conduct is handled on the server, and relating it to what a safe zone can do, hence her counter argument. My perspective of that is: when I was on that server, the looking for crew channel was a mess of different qualifying and unqualifying people to sail with, including users secretly recruiting members to their Alliance Servers (I actually got recruited to a few and I didn't last long in them), I would be willing to believe that a safe zone can be just as bad, if not worse than LFC channels on the discord, where there is an active moderation team capable of overviewing the messages sent in that channel.

Furthermore:
I dont care if a moderator thinks he/she knows what he/she is talking about. Once a person joines the debate, he/she is up to be debated. Thats how I view it. Again, I dont know why you would even care, but it seems to be as if you just tried, again, to find a way to shut down unwanted opinions from being voiced. "Sit down and shush when a moderator speaks" - really?

There's a difference between fact, and opinion. Facts are meant to be correct and accurate, while opinions are open ended, and in a lot of cases, wrong. I may not be able to speak for Shirah here, but I do not like misinformation being spread because of one's possible confirmation bias, or other factors such as idealism. I correct users here when I do because I have enough confidence to say what I know is written/said to be true. You're free to take that any way you want, but I'm willing to also believe that if a moderator, community manager, or Rare employee has something to say regarding practically any topic, they are holding back a metric ton of confidential information and carefully curating their responses to not only to remain respectful, but to also set the record straight with as much information as they're allowed.

As much as we complain about them not hearing us - they absolutely do, but it's not our business on what they do with the information they receive. That being said, You can disagree with a moderator all you want, but you have to understand, their information is accurate. You cannot dismiss accurate information as if it's not true, especially without anecdotal evidence disproving it.

Now, back to the debate:

Safe Zones are very much areas that can lead to issues Rare has already foresaw just by observing how their community reacts to the world without it.

Well, what issues to be exact? Right now this is a "just because" statement. Maybe me and others are too simple to understand. Enlighten us.

• Alliance server recruitment
• Awful communications (ex: Arena lobbies pre 2021)
• Trolling
• Removal of active players in the actual game

That's just a few bullet points that I was able to list. I'll explain some of them later into your response.

Oh I am not subtle suggesting a safe zone. I am very openly a fan of that idea. I do really think the game would benefit from it. Hum, mate, thats the topic of the whole thread.
Your opinion is that it takes away from the main game, and that its not compatible with adventure - got it. But my opinions is vastly different mate. My opinion is it would add to the main game, by giving more options to enjoy it. After all, there are many areas in the game set up for community - but they are always barren.

Sea of Thieves is a sandbox, but like a sandbox, you can only have so many people want to do the same thing at the same time. Most conflicts and battles happen because of shared interests (with the other conflicts happening because of domination). World Events, or common voyage spots (E.g.: Gold Hoarder Vaults, Legend of the Veil maelstroms) tend to be the areas of friction because the only thing happening there is you're taking on a challenge to earn loot in the end. The failure of roleplay in SoT is that unless you're in a corner all by yourself with multiple people matchmade to do the same thing as you, you're not getting anything remotely LARP-worthy done for your satisfaction of being just any old pirate. A pirate in this game is one that collects gold and remains victorious, not some silly sword waver that does silly poses every 20 seconds and fishes at inconvenient times.

Additionally, safe zones require some restrictions based on the game's gameplay loop. Mainly involving loot, and emissary flags. If you're going to an open land to chat with other pirates, the last thing you're going to do is void loot you have on board and rewarding emissary flags kept on your ship. Most safe zone ideas are usually proposed with the bare basic restriction of no loot to sell and no loot to grab, which just lead to no actual game to play.

Without a game to play, what are you meant to do in that open area? Talk about your day while not fighting skeletons, sailing, and digging up treasure? That's what direct messaging and Discord are for. Oh you want to form a crew? Oh look, no one is interested in your gold hoarder voyage stack with no vault voyages included. You want to roleplay? What are you going to do with an open area that might not have dirt for you to shovel in, or water for you to fish in? Maybe it'll have beds and chairs for you to rest in, but that's about it on basic concept alone. Never mind the weirdos and trolls that end up in there, causing trouble. Who's going to moderate that btw? This game only has a support team on the support website, and I've recently learned that it's not very big at all. So who's going to moderate the 1 to 1000+ servers made on a daily basis for anyone willing to sit in an open area with no game to play and keep it family friendly within a timely fashion?

Safe zones as a concept are usually just a poor excuse to simplify the game for the user suggesting it because they were not willing to tackle the challenges set before them. They failed to make friends, failed to communicate their plans with anyone that could have been interested, or, in a lot of cases, no one cared. Yet, a safe zone adds to the game because you can... form crews in them, roleplay (with no props besides emotes), and you're not stressed by trolls and "griefers" messing with you. All 3 of which are flawed mindsets in this current state of the game, and all 3 mindsets are shattered by the exact opposite happening, and very likely, more often than the expectation.

The topic of "Safe Zones" can be open ended, but its concepts are always flawed, and go against the game's vision. Things that go against what the devs prefer to see in their game are things I will valiantly disagree with. That's how I roll here usually, and I can tell you now, it ain't passive aggressive.

Some people still seem to confuse the ideas.

The Lobby:
is meant to be OUTSIDE the main game, as a pre-location BEFORE THE SERVER LOGIN HAPPENS, for open queue only. And Yes, this is not really what the thread is about, someone just threw that idea in, so I am elaborating on that.
The Idea how i recall it from previous posts was:

• a big area - sort of lobby with tables, max 2-4 seats each.

• maybe 100-200 players per lobby if possible - mind, its not the servers, so the usual boundary of 24 Players are most probably not needed.

• ofc. multiple lobbies exist. however much are needed at any given point.

• not hear anyone while not being seated on a table! So no blasting of music, no insults or cries.

• you can sit down on any given table with open space

• you can only hear the people that are on the same table with you

• this area is dedicated to find crews. Once you decided to form one, you can vote and if all vote "yes" then you get thrown into a random server.

• the type of table decides the type of ship you want to take.

• No way to choose any server, no way to even choose in which "pre game" Lobby you get thrown into.

Some people seem to be unaware of the main idea with arguments like "not good if its in the game, only 24 people"; or: "Takes away from the main game"

Tortuga:
(i will just call it like that bec people know what this is):

Could be an area, a port, INSIDE the game. Conditions:

• NPC guards that attack anyone who breaks parley. So no invincibility, just reactions. kills etc are still possible.
• NPC guards are killable - ofc. But respawn in certain places like watchtowers. Plus, they need to be strong to pose a threat.
• no place to sell loot
• no parley if you arrive with loot!

Does it take away from the main game, eg.: the seas? - Well, maybe sometimes, but, it clearly depends on the definition of the "main game":

• If you view the main game as only happening on the waters - then yes.

• if you view the main game as only looting, shooting, and preying on other players - then yes

• if you view the main game as people also just having fun together, in whatever way - then no.

• if you view the main game as players also socialising, maybe playing games, sharing their emoticons in a friendly manner. - then no.

I really think it only adds to the game, it does not take anything away. People can still loot, and shoot, and prey on one another. People can still go on voyages, adventures etc.;
But if people are tired doing that - they do not need to log out, they can always just go socialising a little bit. And the same vice versa.
Ofc. if 3 ships are chilling on tortuga, there is less ships on the open waters. But, Players who want to prey can always server hop - like they do alrdy. And also I think the game consists of more then just looting and preying. There is nothing to gain anyway. Only cosmetics. Mods argue that the experience counts, not the loot, not getting sunk or sinking others.
SO what does it matter if we give people another tool, another way - or rather place - to mess around and have fun.

One more thought: We could even put Tortuga in its own instance on the Sea of the Damned.
Like that people would have to purposly sail there through the gate, and nothing would be taken away from the main servers.

It might also feel empty because the servers aren't constant I think. Like sure, they can hold up to 5 ships (give or take) which isn't much to begin with, but that's just the cap and not what it always holds, sometimes it holds less, like 1 or 2. There are times when it feels full, like when players form alliances or everyone unites for some sort of big event

@red0demon0 I think they got back to 6 ships recently

@nex-stargaze

try to carefully argue your points so that all parties involved understand and come to some kind of conclusion

yeah, maybe you should learn to do that. I just placed ideas and tried to add to the pool of whats alrdy there, elaborating on that.
The one having an issue with it - is you.
Why not take your own advice for once: If you have an issue with any given idea, why not try to actually be constructive on your part. Why not think what you have to offer to elaborate on the idea, find solutions for your critique points yourself.
Because what you are doing instead: Just bashing ideas, just being destructive. Even more: You refuse to take new information into account.
Do you think thats helpful?
And if you really just think "all bad" beyond salvation - why not leave it at "all bad" and let the rest of us who want to be constructive be constructive.

Shirah is not only a Forum moderator here, but a moderator of the Official Discord

I explained that in detail alrdy. Dont care, humans are humans, if someone wants to debate, he/she opens him/herself up for debate. Your approach seems rather authoritarian, I dont know where you come from, but as a european, I value my free speech values ;)
Or is it that you try to abuse his/her status in order to give your opinion more credit? Thats a cheap rhetorical tactic called "Argumentum ad verecundiam".
Furthermore: Since Shirah is an adult, I am pretty sure he/she can talk for him/herself, and does not need you to white knight for him/her.
Shirah didn`t offer solely facts, he/she offered opinions, and had questions regarding mine.
You may not like that I dare to answer to another human -but thats really your issue mate, I dont care, nor do I see any reason to bow to your will.

Alliance server recruitment
Awful communications (ex: Arena lobbies pre 2021)
Trolling
Removal of active players in the actual game

all of those appear to be rather random, meaningless buzz words.

• alliance servers recruitment: I guess you refer to "pregame lobby" idea now. I alrdy explained how you got the basic idea wrong still. With my proposal it is not possible to do it any more easy than it happenes right now. In fact: It would give Rare more options to deal with it, so if anything, alliance servers would be harder to achieve, not easier.
• communication: Alrdy explained how you seemingly got the basic idea wrong still. Furthermore, communication is an issue in the game generally, can thus hardly be used as an argument against a certain feature. You would need to argue against the whole of communication in the game then.
• Trolling: Just a random buzz word, has no meaning in that context. Trolling can happen, Trolling does happen right now, And you would not argue to shut down the whole game or its alrdy existing features because of trolling either.
• Removal of active players in the actual game: Alrdy explained that in Detail. You choose to ignore my statements so you can continue to repeat ur disproven points. If you would really inform yourself about my ideas, you would realize that argument does not make sense in the context.

Sea of Thieves is a sandbox, but like a sandbox, you can only have so many people want to do the same thing at the same time. Most conflicts and battles happen because of shared interests

Where is it written SoT has to exist solely for open water conflicts. Where is it written SoT - as a sandbox - can not simply be fun at times. Thats just your narrow defininition of how you want it. ANd its not even in line with the games general vision, as simply having fun and fooling around is as much a part of SoT as anything else.
Furthermore, I want to argue: if you give eg.: a safe zone to people and let them play minigames like rolling dice - There is no way for you to determine wether there is potential for conflict or not.

The failure of roleplay

Who talked about roleplay

Safe zones as a concept are usually just a poor excuse to simplify the game

With this comment you are once again showing that you did not actually read what people wrote / did not understand the proposals. This comment can be seen as nothing else than you trying to gaslight the rest of us.

Yet, a safe zone adds to the game because you can... form crews in them

For the like 3rd time now: You are still confusing ideas. You still get it wrong. You get confused about 2 different ideas, and act like they are one and the same.

The topic of "Safe Zones" can be open ended, but its concepts are always flawed, and go against the game's vision

The concept appears flawed to you, because you refuse to even get a clear picture about what those concepts even are.
Against the games vision? Thats just your vision, and your opinion. Just because you try to paint it as "god given" does not make it reality. Furthermore: Visions can change. Games can grow and develope new directions. People are allowed to have opinions. Wether anything happenes is for Rare to decide, ofc, but people can have opinions and ideas.
Even more: If mods would not want us to debate, they would shut the thread - they dont - so its open to discussion. stop your gaslighting

@merlin-mav-k yes. Make it as an instanced area. accessible from different servers, if you leave you get thrown out into a random one, as you said. Then noone can complain anymore.