Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly

  • Merlin MAV K
    Ship Mate

    I meant to come back for the Pirates of the Caribbean add on but had not done yet. The Monkey Island event though brought me back and I had some fun playing over the weekend for sure (doing POTC first) but some old frustrations quickly surfaced:

    The combat controls (XBOX gamepad) are still really clunky. There is a certain charm to it and this is not a twitchy game but more often than not any conflict at all (vs AI or other attacking players) is an exercise in futility where you mostly feel like you are not in control. I can mostly sum it up like this: that happened so fast I had no idea or option to do anything about it.

    For someone that has been away for a long time, all of the new additions are obtuse to say the least. Oh hey I have a Reaper chest. Where do I take this? Eventually figured out the location. No idea where to turn it in once get there though, looking around, get ambushed and stolen from. Still no idea. I've played enough to get this is the lay of the land but, yeah, that's why I left in the first place. It's not like my sloop was filled with loot. Was just trying to figure out the mechanic of this addition. This kind of thing is why the long layoff seemed a smart idea.

    In the POTC quest line there are multiple points where it is completely befuddling what the player is expected or asked to do next. Not talking about the puzzles, that's part of the fun but there has been more than one instance where I solve one, or an area, and it's simply not clear or even nudging what to do or where to go next. Not against being made to figure things out but some contextual bits are missing and it's not just in the Tall Tales - it's also in the number and kind of tasks spread across the game. People that have been playing every day since 2018 I'm explicitly and emphatically not talking to you, but more and better SAFE tutorials (there are ways to teach the PVP aspect alongside the basics without punishing people for merely trying) are sorely lacking.

    Also think it's telling that after being gone for so long that the first interaction(s) had with anyone were completely and unnecessarily toxic. It's unfortunate. The game survives despite the lion's share of the people playing it, it seems.

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  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    Just a genuine advice (not arguing against your feedback) - Google. If you get stuck or not know something SOT wiki is great for any items, cosmetics commendations and Rarethief for any Tall Tale, Voyage guides.

    Also in my opinion, you are waaay too much used to modern games, with big green arrows - GO HERE. At least that is the impression. I understand that this game holds your hand very little sometimes. And I understand that finding a reaper chest might not be as clear that you need to take it Reapers Hide out. But the part that confused me the most while reading your feedback is that you could not figure out where to go.

    I mean the location consists of 3 islands. Two of them are deserted with nothing on it and the big main one has a massive tent. The entrance to the tent has some massive bones shaping up the corridor to the entrance. You have torches on both sides with flags which is another indication that that's the entrance. Also in front of all that, you have a small bridge leading you to the docks to park your ship.

    alt text I know this is aerial view, but perhaps if you look at it from this perspective you might agree that the entrance could not be more obvious?

    That being said, I hope your next adventure won't feel as confusing and you will learn to love this game once again. Happy sailing :)

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @merlin-mav-k sagte in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    Oh hey I have a Reaper chest. Where do I take this? Eventually figured out the location.

    As you played it earlier, you should know, that SoT always has been a game, where you need to figure out things by yourself, by other pirates in the game or by YT and wiki's

    Some things tells you INGAME where to go...first "Reapers Hideout", that's the obvious one...and one little bit hidden...you know the chat-radial? Pick up the chest, open the chat-radial, change to the item related one...one line says something like "let's go to the reaper hideout"

    And there is just one person there...so not that hard...
    And you got robbed there, well, it's Sea of Thieves

  • Merlin MAV K
    Ship Mate

    I have been playing games since the Atari 2600 and the Apple II. I know good and lacking game design when I experience it. Of course I Google things but the SECOND you have to do that it's an indictment of design, in my opinion.

    I don't need a giant green arrow pointing the way to anything. I've never been to this location before and based on your picture it looks like I came from the backside (I think) and also in the dark. I could not see hardly anything. I was barely on foot on the island for the count of 5 before getting ambushed. Comes with the territory sure, but no less frustrating. There also was no enemy ship moored or in sight on approach. Add all of that up and just an acute moment of frustration that dashed the fun of even trying to play again when merely trying to figure something out.

    Maybe I didn't make my point very well but there is a obtuse quality to the design of this game that could stand some for some subtle improvement, to say nothing for the longstanding community issues.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @merlin-mav-k You currently have a commendation to unlock some weapon cosmetics when you hand in 30 of those chests. I once camped there for an hour, hoping a pirate like yourself would come my way, but the ship just ended up sailing with the chest across the whole map and this was the moment I decided not to try 'tucking' again.

    The Island is a bit dark indeed, I usually play with my brightness all the way up, but this is more to do with CSGO competitive scene than Sea of Thieves, but it helps both!

    So just wanted to ask, what would you propose? What changes would help to improve your experience?

  • Merlin MAV K
    Ship Mate

    @zig-zag-ltu

    Maybe I missed something that was already provided explicitly but in this specific scenario:

    "You have found a Reaper's Chest" - This is a new item and this is what it is and what it does, or similar..... If I skipped over this at any point, I'll admit to it, but don't recall seeing anything that gave even an inkling what it was or what to do with it. I only figured out the location by doing a Google search.

    "So and so finds these valuable - try to find and turn in to them for a reward" They can be found at X-location(s), or there are only rumors as to where they can be found and you'll need to seek them out, but be warned, this chest is marked with a beacon, making you a unusually ripe target" - - - - some of this I gleaned for myself by the obvious, but something that communicated this type of overall info BETTER would have been helpful.

    "Find enough of these and get X." What is the motivation for seeking more of these out? Why does everyone want them? What makes them distinctive from any other kind of loot? Again, if this information was presented anywhere in the chain of events from when I found it, I missed it.

    This is more a general plea for more/better contextual info across the board. Not neon signs and arrows for what to do and where to go.

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @merlin-mav-k Hmm those are excellent points to be honest. Sometimes it is refreshing to hear these things from a perspective of someone who is not used to them, which reminds me of myself when I started. I had no clue at all what I was doing, and why. ''I don't know who I am, I don't know why I'm here... all I know is that I must kill''

    And I don't think developers would be against them either, since we have pop up warning about flying emissary flags now...However it took more than 2 years of community asking for something similar.

    Given how much accessibility support we have, having something like this to help new players/less dedicated pirates would only make sense, as long as we could toggle them off. I doubt the game could keep an accurate track of every 'first' experience accurately.

  • CallMeBackdrafT
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @merlin-mav-k said in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    @zig-zag-ltu

    Maybe I missed something that was already provided explicitly but in this specific scenario:

    "You have found a Reaper's Chest" - This is a new item and this is what it is and what it does, or similar..... If I skipped over this at any point, I'll admit to it, but don't recall seeing anything that gave even an inkling what it was or what to do with it. I only figured out the location by doing a Google search.

    The reapers chest was introduced in October of 2019 that is almost 4 years ago

    How long should the “hand holding last”

    "So and so finds these valuable - try to find and turn in to them for a reward" They can be found at X-location(s), or there are only rumors as to where they can be found and you'll need to seek them out, but be warned, this chest is marked with a beacon, making you a unusually ripe target" - - - - some of this I gleaned for myself by the obvious, but something that communicated this type of overall info BETTER would have been helpful.

    "Find enough of these and get X." What is the motivation for seeking more of these out? Why does everyone want them? What makes them distinctive from any other kind of loot? Again, if this information was presented anywhere in the chain of events from when I found it, I missed it.

    It is a sandbox game and yes it has a lore and some reasoning behind the inner workings of the factions in the end it works as a sandbox in which you wake up in this mysterious world we call the sea of thieves and like other sandbox games (minecraft for example) the handholding is minimal

    This is more a general plea for more/better contextual info across the board. Not neon signs and arrows for what to do and where to go.

  • Foambreaker
    Sailor

    @merlin-mav-k One thing, if you are on Xbox you want to turn off cross play in the matchmaking settings. The combat controls on the PC side are much better and if you encounter other crews you will be at a disadvantage.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @foambreaker sagte in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    @merlin-mav-k One thing, if you are on Xbox you want to turn off cross play in the matchmaking settings. The combat controls on the PC side are much better and if you encounter other crews you will be at a disadvantage.

    Partly true...as long as you don’t let them board you, they have no advantage at all

  • VaporishWeb5960
    Ship Mate

    @schwammlgott
    That isn't really a valid argument. No matter the skill level, you will get boarded.
    The Controller - Mouse and Keyboard issue exists in every cross platform game. Mouse and Keyboard just has better controls overall. If you don't want to be at a disadvantage on controller: connect a Mouse and Keyboard to the Xbox, or ditch playing with mouse and keyboard players entirely by playing Xbox Only.

    If it's the actual controls that you're worried about, you can always rebind those too. The only minor adjustment I can currently think of is to allow one button to control multiple actions. Ex. B can cycle between Wood and Bucket

  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    You probably won't believe but i actually did not know you could jump with the sword lunge when you are blocking. I've been playing since day 1 on and off for the most part but did not know that until recently a friend was doing it and showed me how, not that i use it often anyways.

  • VaporishWeb5960
    Ship Mate

    @merlin-mav-k said in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    No idea where to turn it in once get there though, looking around, get ambushed and stolen from. Still no idea.

    I agree, SoT doesn't properly teach every mechanic. Emissaries, Hourglass, Reaper Chests, Captaincy, and many more. Even a 20 minute video on Youtube would struggle to cover every single mechanic in game.

    I honestly think the only solution is some sort of in-game encyclopedia that players can skim through to find the answers they need. There are just too many mechanics to cover with separate tutorials or explanations without bugging players with the amount of time needed to learn everything. Leaving it up to players to search for what they need would probably be the best way to teach, or at least better than it is now.

    In terms of teaching PvP, I'd leave that to Youtube. PvP has so many mechanics, so many ins and outs, so many do's and don'ts, situation based scenarios, and requires good judgement. A game can't feasibly teach you how to best another player. Best they can teach is the tools at your disposal.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @vaporishweb5960 sagte in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    @schwammlgott
    That isn't really a valid argument. No matter the skill level, you will get boarded.
    The Controller - Mouse and Keyboard issue exists in every cross platform game. Mouse and Keyboard just has better controls overall. If you don't want to be at a disadvantage on controller: connect a Mouse and Keyboard to the Xbox, or ditch playing with mouse and keyboard players entirely by playing Xbox Only.

    If it's the actual controls that you're worried about, you can always rebind those too. The only minor adjustment I can currently think of is to allow one button to control multiple actions. Ex. B can cycle between Wood and Bucket

    You will get boarded sometimes, yes...you won't be able to always keep them off your ship...
    Anyway...what argument? I just said, as long as you keep the fight purely naval, without any 1on1 fights, there isn't any advantage at all...I'm an XBox player, sailing on Crossplay servers ONLY...so what do you want to tell me?

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @eva1977 sagte in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    You probably won't believe but i actually did not know you could jump with the sword lunge when you are blocking. I've been playing since day 1 on and off for the most part but did not know that until recently a friend was doing it and showed me how, not that i use it often anyways.

    Well, try using it...you are so much more mobile with this...

  • Reverend Toast
    Lord
    Insider

    My shipmate plays exclusively on Controller. We have gone up against some pretty prominent PVP streamers and taken them down... and not just with Ship to Ship combat.

    Saying Mouse and Keyboard is just better than Controller, is truly contextual. Yes Mouse players typically will have an easier time aiming... if you are proficient with the controller you can get pretty darn close to the majority of mouse users.

    Controller also has analogue movement, so you have a much easier method of positioning yourself with the stick than with WSAD.

  • VaporishWeb5960
    Ship Mate

    @schwammlgott

    Let me reclarify what I was trying to say. I did a bad job of making my intentions clear.

    The problem is that Controller players are at a disadvantage to Mouse and Keyboard players.

    My first sentence was directed towards you because you made the claim that there's no advantage if they don't get onboard. I wanted to make it clear that your solution wasn't a great solution because it's impossible to make sure every single fight is completely naval, which we both agree on. Your solution only works when the controller player is able to constantly keep boarders off, but the controller player will still be at a disadvantage when a mouse and keyboard player inevitably gets onboard. The problem isn't solved.

    The rest of my comment was directed towards the host, and really anybody else who has an issue with controller players being at a disadvantage. I was stating solutions what would work in any scenario:

    • Remove the advantage by becoming Mouse and Keyboard. Mouse and Keyboard vs. Mouse and Keyboard, problem solved
    • Remove the advantage by not playing against Mouse and Keyboard. Controller vs. Controller, problem solved

    My last statement was my thinking on a minor improvement to the game that could lessen the gap between Mouse and Keyboard and Controller, and that was to allow one button to be bound to multiple actions. Problem isn't solved, but controller players and Mouse and keyboard players now have more control over how they play. The change favors controller players who generally have less buttons to work with.

    I hope you now completely understand what I was trying to communicate

  • ZiG ZaG LTU
    Commander
    Insider

    @eva1977 Not a day one player, but I just found this out like few months ago too. I saw players doing it, but never thought much of it. Now I use it everytime I can, still working on the muscle memory to do it flawlessly every time.

  • EVA1977
    Captain
    Insider

    @zig-zag-ltu yeah it's like the sword lunge on the edge of the beach when you want to reach a location in the water, i always mess up when i need it but not when i'm playing around. Go figure.

  • Schwammlgott
    Champion

    @vaporishweb5960 sagte in Back after away for 2+ years - the Good, The Bad and the Ugly:

    @schwammlgott

    Let me reclarify what I was trying to say. I did a bad job of making my intentions clear.

    The problem is that Controller players are at a disadvantage to Mouse and Keyboard players.

    My first sentence was directed towards you because you made the claim that there's no advantage if they don't get onboard. I wanted to make it clear that your solution wasn't a great solution because it's impossible to make sure every single fight is completely naval, which we both agree on. Your solution only works when the controller player is able to constantly keep boarders off, but the controller player will still be at a disadvantage when a mouse and keyboard player inevitably gets onboard. The problem isn't solved.

    The rest of my comment was directed towards the host, and really anybody else who has an issue with controller players being at a disadvantage. I was stating solutions what would work in any scenario:

    • Remove the advantage by becoming Mouse and Keyboard. Mouse and Keyboard vs. Mouse and Keyboard, problem solved
    • Remove the advantage by not playing against Mouse and Keyboard. Controller vs. Controller, problem solved

    My last statement was my thinking on a minor improvement to the game that could lessen the gap between Mouse and Keyboard and Controller, and that was to allow one button to be bound to multiple actions. Problem isn't solved, but controller players and Mouse and keyboard players now have more control over how they play. The change favors controller players who generally have less buttons to work with.

    I hope you now completely understand what I was trying to communicate

    So...just to clarify...I didn't talk about any solution to any problem...I just corrected someone else, that it's just partly true as long as you don’t get boarded. Which is true. Period. Sure you won't be able to keep it pure naval all the time, but you can try...my personal stats for that must be pretty good I guess...

    You can't make too much multiple actions bound on the controller...that's an overload and starters won't be able to get into the game and quit right away...you aren't much of a controller-player, right? But you can do it like me, buy a chatpad for the controller, you can bind the items to the little keyboard tagged to the controller like on a regular one...works only on crossplay servers!

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