Renown Only Seems To Reward Certain Playstyles

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    When Seasons were first introduced, they were marketed as a way to reward players for just playing the game and doing things within the world of Sea of Thieves. I believe this progression system has been one of the best things added to the game to date.

    The problem I have noticed over the years is that this system is very much focused on PvE play styles. The most effective ways to earn renown very quickly involve PvE actions such as clearing world events and completing voyages and Tall Tales. This is the case so much so that if you play a session where you spend most of the time fighting and stealing, you may see very little renown progression. Whereas a night full of quiet PvE grinding will get you most of your levels.

    This has led to our crew feeling limited in the ways that we can play if we want to reach renown level 100. We don't get to play as often anymore, so the effects of this imbalance have been felt quite a lot in the past few seasons. We feel pressured to engage in PvE grinding just make sure we reach level 100 before the season ends. Even grinding world events feels like a slog because nothing interesting is happening most of the time. We would absolutely love to do more hourglass PvP, but again, this playstyle is counterintuitive to earning renown - better not play that way until we've secured renown level 100!

    After reaching renown level 100 is when we feel like we can let loose and play the way we want.

    When we play Sea of Thieves, we have the most fun during those chaotic multi-ship interactions that take place at Forts of Fortune. Moments like these are sort of what define the Sea of Thieves experience! Unfortunately, renown progress comes to a grinding halt during these times since there is no consistent renown source during ship battles or other social interactions.

    If the purpose of Seasons is to reward players for just playing the game, then it should not be a system where playing the game in specific ways is rewarded more than simply playing the way you want.

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  • hawkeye99
    Marauder

    @chronodusk Renown goes up from nearly everything you do in this game, including your trips to the ferry and island visits. The notable exclusions would be things that could be directly farmed off unwilling players such as other pirates sent to the ferry or cannonball hits. These things will never be counted towards renown for that reason. Do you have a suggestion for something you would like to see added to renown counts that couldn't be farmed off unwilling crews?

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @hawkeye99

    I don't deny the existence of some renown being available during social interactions, it's just only a fraction of what you can get by doing only PvE grinding. Don't take my word for it though; try a session of only social or PvP experiences with little PvE engagement and then try a session where you keep your head down doing only PvE stuff. You'll notice the drastic difference in progress that you get from these play styles. This influences us to engage is some play styles over others, which as I understand is not something that Rare wants for this game.

    You mention visiting the ferry as a renown source, which I don't believe that is a source of renown - I'm pretty sure that only counts toward a captaincy milestone. Even if you do get renown for that and also consider that you get renown for sailing nautical miles, these are not consistent enough to be viable sources of renown to complete the season.

    PvE content has a much wider range of actions that award renown. We need a similar level of consistency for non-PvE actions. I've been around since the beginning and I know that they don't want to encourage spawn camping and farming other players, but I think they can reward cannon fire and kills without incentivizing kill-farming. Diminishing returns and cooldowns would likely play a part in this.

    The core of the issue I'm pointing out is that renown incentivizes some play styles while seemingly discouraging others, which is antithetical to how Rare described their intentions for progression in this game. I don't know the perfect solution, but it's Rare's job to figure that out if they agree that this is a flaw in their system.

  • hawkeye99
    Marauder

    You may be right and your trips to the ferry don’t count. I’ve had the renown notifications turned off since right after they were added. “Trip to the ferry added to log” just seems like something I remember but I could easily be wrong. If it doesn’t count that would be a good one added for your play-style.

    Concerning “the core of the issue”, I do think most everything is counted and if you can’t come up with obvious things to count for your play-style, then they may have it better covered than you are willing to admit. At this point, I challenge you to give me some absent renown counts that will fix your issue. I want to stress this is a friendly challenge and that I’m only trying to help bring conversation to the issue you’re having and find out if there really is something in need of change here.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @hawkeye99 I think that OP's problem is that for the same amount of time invested, PVE activities and PvP activities don't add up close to the same amount of renown.

    I have no doubt that most of the PvP bits give renown too, but they happen less often in the same amount of time played. I reckon he would like that a victory in HG gives way more renown than currently for instance.

    I myself don't mind since I'm a PvPvE player. But it is true that a pure PvE playstyle give more renown per hour than a pure PvP playstyle.

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Would you want a lot of players fighting you just to gain renown?

    • Sink 50 ships with broken masts
    • Sink a ship doing a voyage?

    Those types of pvp aren’t good

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @burnbacon said in Renown Only Seems To Reward Certain Playstyles:

    Would you want a lot of players fighting you just to gain renown?

    • Sink 50 ships with broken masts
    • Sink a ship doing a voyage?

    Those types of pvp aren’t good

    I don't necessarily want for PvP to be incentivized through renown. It's just that there isn't enough renown being earned passively unless you are straight up PvE-ing the whole session, and that doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like renown is fairly rewarding all play styles.

  • Chronodusk
    Commander
    Insider

    @grog-minto said in Renown Only Seems To Reward Certain Playstyles:

    @hawkeye99 I think that OP's problem is that for the same amount of time invested, PVE activities and PvP activities don't add up close to the same amount of renown.

    I have no doubt that most of the PvP bits give renown too, but they happen less often in the same amount of time played. I reckon he would like that a victory in HG gives way more renown than currently for instance.

    I myself don't mind since I'm a PvPvE player. But it is true that a pure PvE playstyle give more renown per hour than a pure PvP playstyle.

    This is correct.

    When PvE-ing, you have renown awarded for treasures discovered, treasures placed on the ship, voyage steps completed, voyages completed, enemies slain, bosses slain, world events completed, islands visited...

    Now imagine you arrive at a Fort of Fortune. You're doing the fort, then as expected, other ships start to appear. Ship battles start to ensue. The only thing you're getting renown for at that point is nautical miles sailed throughout the battle. I gain nothing from overcoming my attacker as they return to the fort multiple times. I've only invested more time into something with less reward because the renown system only targets PvE actions for the most part.

    I'm not necessarily saying the solution is to directly reward cannon fire and killing, but something feels off balance about investing this much time and energy with hardly any renown to show for it. This is a very notable issue if you prefer a play style that focuses more on theft.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    @chronodusk Well this season I pretty much only went for FoF and FDD and I fight a lot for them but that didn't prevent me from reaching lvl 100 of the pass in less than 30 hours of gameplay or so. Seems reasonable to me.

    Now if you only fight and tuck to steal a couple items and dip then yeah : you won't lvl up a whole lot but I don't see how to address that. ^^'

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @chronodusk I find that the rewards just for selling loot adds up quick. My crew is usually hunting. We will do pve as we go, but we want fights. This season took no time to get to 100. like maybe 10 hours.

    If they add more renown to pvp, it needs to be set so that spawn camping isn't helpful. Maybe ships sunk, killing players but make it so other players only count so much like when killing enemy players for emissary progress.

    Not sure there needs to be a fix, renown goes up pretty steady.

  • hawkeye99
    Marauder

    @chronodusk said in Renown Only Seems To Reward Certain Playstyles:

    When PvE-ing, you have renown awarded for treasures discovered, treasures placed on the ship, voyage steps completed, voyages completed, enemies slain, bosses slain, world events completed, islands visited...

    Now imagine you arrive at a Fort of Fortune. You're doing the fort, then as expected, other ships start to appear. Ship battles start to ensue. The only thing you're getting renown for at that point is nautical miles sailed throughout the battle. I gain nothing from overcoming my attacker as they return to the fort multiple times. I've only invested more time into something with less reward because the renown system only targets PvE actions for the most part.

    I'm not necessarily saying the solution is to directly reward cannon fire and killing, but something feels off balance about investing this much time and energy with hardly any renown to show for it. This is a very notable issue if you prefer a play style that focuses more on theft.

    One issue we are having here is that we are somehow denoting that time being spent somehow needs a reward at base value. As long as you are stealing treasure and selling it you will be rewarded just fine. The PvE players are generating the loot that makes this game possible for everyone else. They are going to be rewarded in renown for generating the loot in game. If you are making your steals at the appropriate time you simply bypass the renown for loot generation but get everything that comes after. I still think you should be able to make a suggestion for either something you do as a PvPer that needs renown awarded to it, or a step in the PvPers treasure gathering process that makes it worth more renown than the other steps. At this point it sounds like you are asking for more reward while not adding anything to the game. This doesn’t strike me as much different than PVEers asking for more reward for the loot they generate but do not turn in (which we all see lots of suggestions for in these forums.)

    We got off the topic of hour glass with your fort example. I do believe more places for renown could be found inside of that feature.

  • hawkeye99
    Marauder

    @grog-minto said in Renown Only Seems To Reward Certain Playstyles:

    @hawkeye99 I think that OP's problem is that for the same amount of time invested, PVE activities and PvP activities don't add up close to the same amount of renown.

    I have no doubt that most of the PvP bits give renown too, but they happen less often in the same amount of time played. I reckon he would like that a victory in HG gives way more renown than currently for instance.

    I myself don't mind since I'm a PvPvE player. But it is true that a pure PvE playstyle give more renown per hour than a pure PvP playstyle.

    I agree with most of what’s in this post. The caveat is that a PVPer has a harder job to be incredibly efficient at. For starters, they work off the back of the PVEers on their server. If they don’t generate, you don’t sell. On top of that you have to find them. I still think if there is a problem here the OP should be able to point at a specific place they deserve more reward. I’m not even saying it doesn’t exist, I just think, as the one stating the issue, they should be able to say what they do that deserves more renown.

    I agree that there is probably room in hour glass to reward more renown.

  • GoldsMen
    Captain
    Insider

    Im not totally sure where you get that renown does not go up much from pvp. As far as im aware, you gain just as much renown for stealing loot and selling that same loot, as just finding and selling that loot, not to mention if you are good at pvp, a 4 streak in hourglass grants very considerable renown.

  • MetallOrange
    Marauder
    Insider

    I don't know how you feel that PvE get's more renown than PvP to be honest. Whatever my crew and I decide on doing, after playing 2 evenings of 3 hours we are all lvl 100. If that's reapering all night, Hourglass, World events or Sea fortresses.. Yes you will earn renown a bit faster by killing a lot of skellies and phantoms then when killing players, but that's because of the quantity of how many you kill.

    Either way, within a maximum of 10 hours we've always been lvl 100 renown.. and with how long current season is taking I personally think it's very hard to call it a grind. But that's just my opinion

  • GOOGOODAN
    Captain
    Insider

    @chronodusk I only do PVP and usually max the plunderpass in about 12 hours of gameplay.

    By PVP, I mean I sail around finding a target, shoot to islands, fill my pockets with supplies, engage other players, take their loot, sell their loot, replenish my supplies while finding the next ship, etc.

  • Reverend Toast
    Lord
    Insider

    Renown ROCKs up Insanely Fast if you play the game organically. Just doing one thing it will go slowly, cuz you get a renown boost whenever you finish one of the challenges. Most seasons I finish the plunder pass within the first few days... or at the longest the first week.

  • VaughnSilver
    Master
    Insider

    It would be nice to get renown for small pvp things that we already get achievements for like:

    Blocking an opponents sword combo and striking back.
    And
    Blunderbuss a Pirate from behind.

    I'd say limit it to Once per enemy pirate per sink. (Maybe these only trigger when aboard an enemy vessel if you want to add more restrictions)

    But if I can just run around a tiny island putting chickens in a cage to get to Rep 100 in under 2 hours it's probably best for everyone to just quickly grind it out in PvE instead of making changes that could get complaints.

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