Not just another mindless PvE rant - Optional and limiting though passive mode idea

  • I understand this topic is a rather heated one for this community and also comprehend the choice made by Rare to maintain SoT as a PvPvE focused title hence I'll get it out of the way that I don't wish to force this idea through (not that I have the power to so do myself, at any rate), it is merely a suggestion rather than begging for features as yet confirmed not in consideration by the developers. So don't give me links to Rare's stance on the matter as you'd waste your time due to my aforementioned knowledge of this fact.

    Now, I think my suggestion is rather simple and isn't only to implement some form of segregation in the playerbase between the PvP and PvE oriented players, my idea is something akin to GTA V's passive mode in which you cannot be damaged nor deal damage.

    The fact is that this mode works as it is in GTA V because missions are lobbied rather than set in the open of the world map as it is in Sea of Thieves, to remedy the lack of balance to the concept of risk versus rewards that this game desires to embrace, it could perhaps come with a debuff of some sort, notably in the way of reduced repute and monetary gains, a reduction sufficient to maintain the PvPvE the more viable option to garner progress but enough to not render the endeavours of a passive crew pointless.

    It could extend from the ship being PvP proof to the crew hailing from the ship as well, hence players couldn't simply be targetted by other crews who would have the intent to make a dent in some way in the passive crew. Players playing in passive mode and those playing the game the standard way could be made to not be able to steal from eachother's vessels though to remedy the potential issue of something that's not hoarded aboard a crew's ship being stolen by another crew playing in a different mode, perhaps voyages undertaken by passive crews could be flagged in the system as "passive" and consequently the actual objectives' loot would just as well be flagged; and so standard players wouldn't be able to interact with the finds were they to follow a passive crew to their objective, same vice-versa as passive players would only be able to interact with mission treasures on the islands relevant to their voyages.

    The side riches found on islands which aren't the main goal of a given voyage, passive or standard, could perhaps be accessible to both standard and passive players alike, turning this part of the goodies into a marathon for profits without completely ruining the quest for gains of the crew, passive or standard. It would maintain an aspect of competitiveness despite the non-use of murderous means, and such in a way I believe fair as both sides could prey on eachother's side dishes but not touch the main event. It could turn into friendly competitions since the extra goods are just so, extra.

    I think this would effectively block the chance for toxic undefendable-against theft since the crew on the voyage for the now stolen loot wouldn't be able to regain said loot, a fact effective for both standard and passive, thus the proposed counter to this.

    In order to not completely lock passive players out of most else than their current voyage, passive players should still have access to forts and similar low progression-impact areas that don't necessarily have an explicit objective but wouldn't profit of the loot protection found in their own voyages, hence if a PvPvE or (other passive, if more than one per sea) crew wishes to, they could come along and begin looting the fort themselves and it'd be fair, I believe, as if a passive crew wishes to defend their non-privatised goods they'd need to opt out of passive and play the game in PvPvE. Hence making forts (and similar) best profitable to PvPvE players still and asserting the game's true way of being played as envisioned by the developers.

    Perhaps passive players should be restricted from generally very profitable events like FotD and such, in order to keep things fair towards the standard players who are willing to shoulder the risk of PvP fully for their rewards. Whether through some sort of invisible wall-bubble around the given area that would block or repel crews flagged as "passive." Similarly, in order to keep griefing such as ramming and path-blocking of other ships playing in different modes from a given crew, despite the lack of damage, perhaps ships would go through eachother, and crews playing in standard and passive mode would go through the others' as well, whether on ship or off ship.

    I believe it's doable and fair that if one currently must run away to avoid trouble from another crew, in order to avoid another crew phasing through your ship, and ruining your view, you could simply sail away. It would keep the goofing at a lighthearted level considering the amount of passive crews would be limited to something less than the PvPvE crews' count, hence making it an instance of mostly harmless trolling rather than being rammed into islands by another crew who doesn't take damage from pushing you along.

    Another idea could be to make only the ship accelerating towards another be impacted with damage/hull breaches and also not make the targetted ship be importuned in the way of deviation or bouncing off, the downside to this that I can see, though, is that if a ship purposefully goes in front of an innocent vessel, the vessel would go towards and impact instead being the ones to deal with the leaks and such. Which is why I think my idea of ghost-phasing through other player ships better as it completely circumvents this potential issue.

    Also, on the matter of forts and such, extending upon my earlier thoughts, perhaps anchored ships would be bounced off of by other, different mode playing crews rather than phased through, this would prevent some sort of exploit in which crews delivering goods would somehow put it not in their own but the other crew's ship due to the phasing, hence if anchored, no ghosting through eachother, but also no damage, the ones accelerating towards the docked ship should perhaps be given the damage, or mayhaps bounce off, or simply slide along as if nothing was happening since they wouldn't be able to jump aboard and would instead fall in the sea anyway.

    This idea doesn't require an entirely different server from the ones at current disposal, I think, rather, perhaps the amount of passive crews per server could be limited to one or two depending on how it scales with the already existing amount of servers in use, the limit would serve to deflect from "needing" for PvE to be divided from the PvP aspect in order to be "viable" as a feature, which I agree would result in radically changing the game from PvPvE to both options separate and ruining the experience of the game as a whole.

    Something that has been endlessly proposed previously and is overly too simplistic and draconian in my opinion.

    Instead I propose using the same servers without such heavy division as previously stated, with limited slots per Seas which would offer the possibility for less PvP interested crews to either chill and socialise, go on less profitable adventures though moreso fun for them despite the losses, in a way, I believe, that would prevent draining the playerbase from the "PvPvE/standard mode" into something that isn't the game's focus as well as keep the players from being spread thinly across varieties of multiple, costly servers.

    One could mayhaps choose to enter adventure mode as passive which would from the get-go matchmake the crew into a free passive slot on a server. Opting-in and/or out of passive mode whilst sailing the seas shouldn't be allowed and maybe it would require to wait for a timer to elapse whilst in the vicinity of an outpost in order to eventually, at the timer's end, have the option to opt out, similarly when opting-in; so as to not abuse this by hopping in and out of inter player invincibility and creating toxicity between passiveness. If the sea's passive slots are full, a crew could initiate a vote that would perform similarly to "Scuttle and change seas" but in the form of "Scuttle and change seas passively" or some such in order to migrate as if from the main menu into a game without having to wait around for the aforesuggested timer to elapse.

    Also, with this idea I think explosive barrels that were detonated aboard or around a ship should be non-damaging to the given ship and its crew if it was detonated in whatever way by another crew, whether fellow passives, if multiple per servers are allowed, or standard players if the act is done against passive players.

    Sometimes, some players, whether weathered seadogs or weary ratlings, would indeed enjoy the contact with other crews no matter their stance across the seas as this game is great for socialising and simply having a relaxing and good time, having fun with other people in an online game you know, but without the need to constantly look over your shoulder when all one desires to do at a given time is let their guard down and take in the views, the moments, enjoy the Sea of Thieves.

    As things stand, oftentime one can be found deprived of the peace and quiet that very well has potential to be found in Sea of Thieves; and please do not tell that if one wants to socialise somewhere they may well go and launch VR Chat or some other such, players who love Sea of Thieves enough to want to enjoy it at that level, in this way, which it inherently has the potential, tools and features to support, should be allowed to so do upon the Sea of Thieves. Sometimes one might simply want to take the factor of aggression out of the randomness of encountering others or playing with others. Telling fellow players to leave a game you yourself enjoy isn't very productive in the end as you push them out and kill the playerbase a little more every time players give up due to such lack of openness.

    Thank you for reading if you did and I hope this can turn into something of a meaningful discussion without being shelved, I really only intended to exchange upon this idea rather than debate the prevalence of PvP versus PvE versus the already established PvPvE, even if it remains but an hypothetical.

    It is a Sea of Thieves indeed, though even Thieves need a breather occasionally and tavernfuls of grog don't always offer the needed respite.

  • 8
    Posts
    4.4k
    Views
  • For it to work would take a lot of resources. You'd need to address every little problems that could arise :

    • Passive crew following others trying to be as annoying as possible. Right now you could try and sink them, with passive mode you're out of luck.

    • Passive crew rushing to fights in order to collect sunken ships loots that would be lost to the victors.

    • Passive crew that would camp World events (any that they would be allowed to) and rush the most valuable loot.

    That's just from the top of my head.

    Honestly Passive mode doesn't have it's place in a shared world experience. In an instanced game, sure. SoT is not that.

  • @grog-minto a dit dans Not just another mindless PvE rant - Optional and limiting though passive mode idea :

    For it to work would take a lot of resources. You'd need to address every little problems that could arise :

    • Passive crew following others trying to be as annoying as possible. Right now you could try and sink them, with passive mode you're out of luck.

    • Passive crew rushing to fights in order to collect sunken ships loots that would be lost to the victors.

    • Passive crew that would camp World events (any that they would be allowed to) and rush the most valuable loot.

    That's just from the top of my head.

    Honestly Passive mode doesn't have it's place in a shared world experience. In an instanced game, sure. SoT is not that.

    I admit the game doesn't have all the foundations to support such a thing in its current state, hence I wasn't thinking that such a mode would be implemented soon if ever it garnered the developers' interest, but still I think fixes are rather easy to think of really, I'm no programmer so I have no expertise on whether it's as easy to execute as to come up with but for instance:

    1-This can be done the other way around by standard crew also, I'll use a commonly used phrase and say "scuttle," if it is unfair to be spawn-killed, perhaps it's fair that it's unfair for the annoyed crew playing differently than the other one to be. There could be a votable option to mute passive or standard crews depending on what mode crew yours is, hence you could mute annoying ones that you can't prevent being so, and if they annoy you more than with simply their voice chat, well, scuttle. With my before proposed ideas, they wouldn't be able to do more than be in your visual periphery anyway so... Grow a patience, if scuttling is off the table?

    There's plenty similar cases of infuriating "unfairness" in the game as is already, this wouldn't make a huge difference I'm afraid. They wouldn't even be able to prevent you from selling your gains anyway, one could scuttle after being done with business or server hop, as is customary, through Tall Tale, etc.

    Another type of checkmate than being in a situation where all is lost when playing in PvPvE. My suggestion to limit the amount of passive crews per sea is also working towards helping this along, that way there's one or very few mosquitoes being a risk of doing so. I feel it would be more bearable to be followed by a ghost you can mute than have to deal with other players' aggressive playstyles when you're not of a mind to.
    /
    2-Prevent passive crews from having any claim in sunken ships if said ship is another player - they opted out of PvP so they have no right to others' spoils, and perhaps flag other players' AI kills as untouchable by passive players/standard players depending on the mode of the crew who sank the AI, perhaps, locking the thief crew from the other mode crew's spoils.

    Plenty of skelly ships in the sea to plunder from also so I don't see why it would be problematic if such a thing were in place.
    /
    3-As proposed in my above object, perhaps limit what events are available to passive crews or maybe even lock all of them away from passive players, the main experience is PvPvE hence it should be reflected there in such a way perhaps if it's simpler to implement and more agreeable to all parties involved. Make shots not deal damage to event AIs or something similar to apply such a limit, by that point if it were a thing that players playing in different modes couldn't damage eachother, I don't think it would be so difficult to do as between players to not enable damage to AIs.

    Maybe leave events of lower "grade" than ashen available for passive crews to play, it's not the most profitable of events out there after all. Other events more special than ashen should surely be inaccessible so as to not be source of such clashing between crew types as it's relatively "high stakes."
    /
    This is from the top of my head also. What I mean with this whole idea is also to show that players don't necessarily want hard defined borders to be dressed in order to enjoy a more casual experience, more ease to appreciate the world Rare crafted, without entirely subtracting the sentiments meant to be experienced within Sea of Thieves. I mean to tell and remind that there are alternatives different to the simple, vitriol-induced pleas that don't offer anything supporting the vision of the developers whilst also aiding in making a more enjoyable experience for more players.

    Nothing is impossible through time, currently it may not be optimal, as you point out, sure, but who knows what lies ahead.

  • always pains me to see thought out posts that will just be locked with a copy paste link to the teams thoughts on the great PvE debate.

    i am very much in support of pve servers in concept. but they need to come with a penalty to make playing the current method more desirable from a progression stand point. in other words the safety of pve should come at a cost of progression speed so you accept that handicap and if you want to progress fast than playing on pvp servers adds another layer of risk vs reward

    pve servers already exist, rare even allows them to exist and advertise on the official discord. the pve discords however are run in a very exploitive way. its all about min/maxing gold and reputation gains vs having fun. so you cant get onto a ship and do anything you want. theres very specific rules like no tall tales for example. and everyone on that discord complains if it seems like other crews arent as time efficient as they are. "why are we selling 5x an hour and this other ships only selling maybe twice"

    the fact that the people running these servers are running patreons as well to profit off rares lack of support for pve servers and then the "staff" who handle actually filling the ships and insuring the server stays pve and those people work the discords like a 2nd job with 0 pay.

    even the act of forming a pve server can take hours of their time

    if you think about pve servers making 1/2 the gold and rep from selling as the pvp server as well as disabling gold sharing from alliance ships selling loot AND disable the emissary system. i would argue most people who care about progression would still play normal.

    the reality of the situation is with only 6 ships per server the pvpers are scared their easy prey would leave and they would come across crews that no only are as good if not better players but also would have very little (if anything) to steal


  • Does this need subtitles?

  • You really spent all that time typing this?

    Will NEVER happen

    You want a pirate game without the threat of pirates?

  • Amazing having aforementioned knowledge on the devs final stance on this topic and yet going to all this effort 😅

  • I am sorry, I see that you've put some effort into this but despite your impression of the situation, this does fall under a category of suggestions that will make me point to this dreaded thread.

    With that, I am dropping anchor here.

8
Posts
4.4k
Views
1 out of 8