@maximusarael020 said in Hourglass PVP Time Commitment Bonus:
@d3adst1ck said in Hourglass PVP Time Commitment Bonus:
Extra XP means above what you get for loss farming since that is the baseline. If you can lose in 5 minutes for 10 xp, or waste another 5 minutes before sinking to get 15 XP that could be more gain over time than re-queuing. This makes it more beneficial to loss farm in way that also wastes your opponents time and keeps people waiting in the queue longer due to available opponents being locked into longer matches.
But that's only true if Rare doesn't do the numbers right. For instance, you could say the same thing with different hypothetical numbers. "If you get 10 xp from a win and 5 xp from a loss, but a win takes 3 times as long to achieve, then losing will be more beneficial than winning!" Sure, in that hypothetical case. Basically what you would want to look at is average time spent in the dive tunnels and how long it takes and average loss-farmer to lose. Then just ensure that losing with those numbers would still generate more XP than drawing out a battle and losing. Another thing you could do is not start the extra XP timer until the match had gone on for (hypothetically) 25 minutes (Rare has the data and would be able to know what timeframe would work best for this purpose). This is another way to make sure that loss farming would still be more efficient for those who want to do it that way and the extra XP would really only go to people who are actively engaging in the battle.
I wouldn't have faith in Rare to do the 'numbers right' given how they've already set up the XP rewarded for wins/losses and the amount of time it takes to get to 100. There's no way they could satisfactorily hit the moving target of XP being worth less than loss farming while also being worse than winning.
A big problem is that once you set a target like 25 minutes until bonus XP, you'll start seeing a lot more matches last a minimum of 25 minutes.
Because you now get rewarded for not giving up, even if you're out of supplies or outmatched.
People don't give up anyway. They never do. No one says "Well, I'm out of cannonballs, I guess I'll surrender." No, they currently run anyway, so nothing will change.
I do, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I've fought players who run out of supplies and end with a GG. If a fight is going nowhere, I'm not going to waste a bunch of my time unless I also feel like wasting theirs and want to work on my fishing. I'll go for extremely risky plays just to end it if I have to. Matches taking too long is more likely to contribute to lower participation over time more than anything, because they become repetitive.
You're not rewarding players who are actively participating. You're rewarding purely based on time spent which includes loss farming and players wasting time to try to force others to quit; who would now have even more incentive to tie up the queues and drag matches out for as long as possible.
People who try to run to waste people's time and force them to quite are ALREADY DOING THAT so why would this make them do it more? It's already a strat that players use, and I guess I haven't really encountered the chivalrous people you have who honorably give up when they know they've been beat.
It's already a strat that players use, so you're right it won't change their behaviour. I wasn't talking about them, even though they stand to benefit even more from continuing to do that under a time bonus system. Suggestions like this one encourage MORE players to do this in order to hit bonus targets, which is bad.
A timer is probably the least intrusive idea, since it's basically the game saying "This isn't going anywhere, time to end it." and it doesn't cause anyone to lose their ship. I would just call it a draw, give both loser XP, no streak changes and re-dive. Loss farmers can't benefit by dragging out matches because there's no bonus, and players competing wouldn't be penalized for stalemates but would still have an incentive to win since that would be faster than waiting out the time.
A timer would do exactly what you are claiming added XP for time spent would do. People who knew they had been beat would just run to try to run out the timer, if only to keep their ship and deny the other ship the win. I fail to see how your arguments against added XP for time spent don't also go directly against the idea of a timer. Loss farmers are going to loss farm anyway, and now you are giving people who know they are going to lose a way to grief their opponent by denying them a win? Come on.
I said it was the least intrusive, not that it was perfect. It's not attractive to loss farmers, since losing immediately would be faster. It's better for players competing for wins and maintaining streaks, since they aren't forced into infinite matches or quitting. Like you said above, the players that are going to waste your time are already doing it, so this would limit the impact they can inflict on other players. Everyone gets some XP for matching, there isn't an incentive to drag things out, and no streaks get lost.
All of your assumptions don't allow for any nuance of the XP for time system. You simply state "No" without thinking of different ways it could be employed (such as only for the loser to stop winners from griefing, adjusting the numbers so that people loss-farming would still have that be more efficient, etc). No one would waste time any more than they already do. People currently run, they currently try to get their opponent to quite by avoiding them, none of that changes. Getting fast wins will still net way more XP than drawing out a match if they do the numbers right (assuming it would impact the victor at all).
Honestly it would potentially draw more people into the mode because many left because drawn-out battles in which they lost 80% of the time just felt bad because they didn't see any more XP than if they just sunk immediately, so that's what they did! An added incentive to engage might actually get people to give the mode more of a shot.
You'd be more likely to draw players back with defined match times ensuring no drawn out fights, quicker cycling through opponents and a healthier queue. The main problem with the bonus XP idea is that it doesn't fix the issue that created this idea; players feeling like their time was wasted. Players are still going to waste time, and you even agree to this (see bolded text), but this idea does nothing to limit the impact that has on hourglass players and the queue itself it just gives everyone more points but doesn't actually address anything.
