"No one owes you a fight..."

@scheneighnay
That is actually not true. Pvers have way more content to do compared to PvPers and the game mechanics make it so that you can sell loot faster easier (which favors pve quite a lot). Especially sloop of all ships needs a chainshot+cannonball to make the mast fall, is the only ship that can take so much damage and survive using only buckets and is the faster ship when sailing against the wind. Also the ways to make gold are much more pve favored, and the only faction worth playing for pvp is reapers which are marked on the map and due to that you can see them when playing pve way before the situation comes down to a pvp fight. Therefore they are at quite the disadvantage and not to mention that if you want to run from people, by managing sails which is a basic mechanic of the game for both pve and pvp they will never catch you. Not to mention that if you do the tall tales you can basically camp the red sea forever. The only time pvpers have the upper hand is when they are on your ship or have a shot at your ship which requires a lot of mistakes to happen. Also calling people who play this game a lot sweats just because they enjoy pvp is quite rude and i would suggest being more polite, this is merely a discussion.

@pinkkarma834915
I like the idea of keeping specific ships on specific servers. (sloops are paired up with sloops, brigantines with brigantines, and Galleons with Galleons)

It puts everyone on equal ground as far as their ships go, and we can remove an aspect of the game that I've never been fond of: larger crews prying and harassing smaller crews.

@pinkkarma834915
I do not provide a solution because i do not think the game has a problem. I totally agree that there should be some kind of SBMM in adventure mode and this is the first comment i have seen providing a reasonable solution, and proposing an argument that is not "my ship sunk, people are sweats, game sucks".

@scheneighnay
Again your arguments have no basis other than saying pvpers have it easy just because you do not like that playstyle. I have presented to you a lot of ways pvers have the upper hand as far as collecting, protecting , and selling their loot goes without a threat, yet you refuse to acknowledge them.

@scheneighnay said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@gosva5434 said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@pinkkarma834915
I do not provide a solution because i do not think the game has a problem. I totally agree that there should be some kind of SBMM in adventure mode and this is the first comment i have seen providing a reasonable solution, and proposing an argument that is not "my ship sunk, people are sweats, game sucks".

It's about as much as argument as "it's a pirate game" or "it's PVPVE" that nobody seems to have a problem with because the forums are full of PVPers.

Or it's filled with people who enjoy PvEvP. We defend pvp rigorously because it's a core aspect of the game.

I have no problem with the PVP encounters that happen on world events or between 2 crews having voyages in the same spot, but those are rare compared to how it normally goes down.

This is normally how it works for me and mine. We go to do a task and if there are other baots nearby working on their thing, we sink them. If we see another emissary of the same, we try and sink them.

Meanwhile Rare has done nothing but actively encourage the problem through things like openly refusing to patch portal hopping.

Or they actually want pvp in their game. They said they are monitoring portal hopping. But mostly if people are hopping they just snag a new boat on a new server and keep hunting.

@scheneighnay
As you can see the forums aren't filled with your so called "sweats", otherwise you would not have so many people complaing about PvP and the PvEPvP is not an argument but rather a fact presented by the company that made the game. You are just refusing and dismissing every argument that you do not completely agree.

@scheneighnay said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@captain-coel said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@scheneighnay said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@gosva5434 said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@pinkkarma834915
I do not provide a solution because i do not think the game has a problem. I totally agree that there should be some kind of SBMM in adventure mode and this is the first comment i have seen providing a reasonable solution, and proposing an argument that is not "my ship sunk, people are sweats, game sucks".

It's about as much as argument as "it's a pirate game" or "it's PVPVE" that nobody seems to have a problem with because the forums are full of PVPers.

Or it's filled with people who enjoy PvEvP. We defend pvp rigorously because it's a core aspect of the game.

I have no problem with the PVP encounters that happen on world events or between 2 crews having voyages in the same spot, but those are rare compared to how it normally goes down.

This is normally how it works for me and mine. We go to do a task and if there are other baots nearby working on their thing, we sink them. If we see another emissary of the same, we try and sink them.

Meanwhile Rare has done nothing but actively encourage the problem through things like openly refusing to patch portal hopping.

Or they actually want pvp in their game. They said they are monitoring portal hopping. But mostly if people are hopping they just snag a new boat on a new server and keep hunting.

Normally how it works for me is one of 3 scenarios:

1. Galley with no emissary starts attacking every ship in sight whether they're anchored at an outpost as a fresh spawn or at an island.

2. Reaper V portal hops into the server and beelines after every emissary

3. Non-portal hoppers raise reaper, beeline for the reaper V, and then go for every other emissary

The problem is that none of those 3 are doing any PVE or risking any loot, while forcing everyone else to leave the server because the only counterplay is another hopper showing up.

Then sink them? That's what we usually do. I was on a brig last night helping a friend make another legend. We got attacked by a Reaper 5 that was doing world events while we were doing lost shipments. That was a nice flag to sell.

Then a Fort of Fortune spawned. We were attacked by another galley (grade 1 something), and 4 sloops. The waters around keel haul had tons of floating barrels. We then finished and sold everything. We just wanted to do some merchant and ended up having a good hour or so filled with fighting and fun. Embracing the pvp side of the game is enjoyable.

@scheneighnay
Again everything apart from portal hopping is a valid playstyle, you just don't like it. These people are risking not getting any loot in case you sink them, outsail them, sell before they get to you etc . If you also decide to leave the server because you got sunk, it is your choice and nobody forced you too. Getting loot without player interaction is quite riskless compared to having to sink someone to get it. You can't possibly know the other person's skill level when you go to take their loot.

I'll state. I'm NOT a PVP player. Most full-loot PVP games I find are bad, and tend to devolve into ganking with overwhelming odds in favor of the PVP players. It's a bad experience, and tends to end up leaving most of those games losing players over time, until it's nobody but PVP players left, complaining about how the game is boring.

Sea of Thieves IS NOT one of those games. They've managed to strike a balance in "wolves" and "Sheep" in a way that other games simply cant. There are three primary reasons:

1. It has to be fun to be a "sheep." If the people killed are not having fun, they leave. That's partly why there's so much behind developing new "things" to do in the world, as opposed to more ways to PVP. The PVP is fun in and of itself, but people have to want to do the OTHER things, or they leave. Sea of thieves has made a game where sailing the seas, fighting skellies, and digging up treasure is FUN. The game is fun to play even without killing other players.

2. The server structure limits gank squads. (See #1 about having fun). Being beaten by overwhelming odds that you can't hope to overcome due to sheer numbers, overpowered gear, etc is never fun. This game prevents that. With only 6 ships per server, and them being randomly assigned, you are not likely to end up in a situation where you can't do ANYTHING because the same people always kill you. The seas are big, ships are spaced, and it generally requires beacons in the sky to get the ships to come together. There are ways to sail the seas solo safely and get stuff accomplished. It depends on how far you are willing to press your luck. (And sometimes you do get unlucky).

3. Gains/losses are, in reality, trivial. Don't get me wrong, losing hours of work stacking a fort and losing hundreds of thousands or over a million in loot is painful, and can put me off for the rest of the day. However, in the end, loot buys cosmetics. Advancement unlocks cosmetics. Legendary unlocks cosmetics. So, yes, your hours of loot might have been lost, but at the end of the day you really haven't gained or lost anything tangible. You didn't dig up that ultra-rare sword that lets you FINALLY kill that boss you wanted to kill, only to have it stolen by someone who didn't do the work, setting you back days, weeks, or months in a questline or raiding scene. Your cash didn't go up, and you have to now work again to build up towards that cosmetic you were working towards. Those losses sting, but not as bad as in other games.

All of this creates a situation where the game is fun outside of PVP, which keeps people playing.

Now, the other part. I've ended up in a couple of Alliance servers. I've ended up regretting it every time. I make money, which is good. But the alliance servers lack the tension that the very real possibility of PVP brings to the game. It removes the risk/reward structure of the game. No longer are you worried about pressing your luck, if you see another ship it means nothing. When that is gone, the rest of the game loses something, it's just not as much fun.

@scheneighnay
This is a hard concept to grasp for the same reason you can't grasp that you can sell your loot before the other ship comes, and they will get nothing. Also you can keep running forever the same way they can keep coming over and over. No one gets the loot (or you can get it if you know how to manage sails and drive by sell it) so it is only fair. I can only agree that if someone sinks like maybe 2 times they should spawn to a new server.

@scheneighnay said in "No one owes you a fight...":

The game favors PVP because mechanics favor PVP, not because the updates are PVP oriented.

Good PVPVE games give PVErs tools to counterbalance PVP, as 9 times out of 10 the guys that spend 10 hours a day in game will initiate PVP and win.
SoT doesn't counterbalance sweats, which is the problem.

Also the reason this last community day was such a problem is because the ship limit was raised to 6.
5-ship servers weren't so much of a problem but this is intolerable.

Rare doesnt counterbalance sweats?

So... people who are good at something need to be balanced against so people who are not as good at it will win?

Its just literal sour grapes. Get a larger crew together, learn how to defend yourselves better, learn strategies and approaches that make you less of a target... get better. Try to improve.

The people who are better at the game got that way with practice

Someone said the people who get good at pvp "get to play on EZ mode" my dude, everyone has the same guns, cannons, hulls, everything. The level of victim mentality for being told you need to try to improve if youre losing a game is mind boggling.

Sit down to a game of chess and complain you need more pieces or less experienced opponents and see how ppl react

@scheneighnay Well you can always drive by sell that loot get the gold and move to another server if you do not want to engage in combat with them. Choosing to run for hours is a choice you make youself that ends up wasting your time plus if you run so much people might think you have something valuable on your ship.

@scheneighnay
Again you are making assumptions that people who pvp are no lifers without jobs just because they play different than you. PvP is valid playstyle for this game and if you feel that it ruins your SoT experience you have completely misunderstood what this game is all about.

@scheneighnay sagte in "No one owes you a fight...":

The point isn't the loot, it's that they're stopping me from playing the game.
Unlike them, I have a job so if I only have a couple hours to play, a PVPer showing up is a session wasted.

They ain't stopping you playing the game. PvP is a part of this game as much as PvE. You know, PvPvE game and so on..
They only would stop you if they somehow crashed the server or did something other malicious that would close down the game forcefully. Someone chasing you is well within the normal gameplay loop. Saying anything else would be disingenuous.
I work as well and I like all aspects of this game, PvP and PvE, so what's your point?

@pinkkarma834915 said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@tybald said in "No one owes you a fight...":

I'll state. I'm NOT a PVP player. Most full-loot PVP games I find are bad, and tend to devolve into ganking with overwhelming odds in favor of the PVP players. It's a bad experience, and tends to end up leaving most of those games losing players over time, until it's nobody but PVP players left, complaining about how the game is boring.

Sea of Thieves IS NOT one of those games. They've managed to strike a balance in "wolves" and "Sheep" in a way that other games simply cant. There are three primary reasons:

1. It has to be fun to be a "sheep." If the people killed are not having fun, they leave. That's partly why there's so much behind developing new "things" to do in the world, as opposed to more ways to PVP. The PVP is fun in and of itself, but people have to want to do the OTHER things, or they leave. Sea of thieves has made a game where sailing the seas, fighting skellies, and digging up treasure is FUN. The game is fun to play even without killing other players.

2. The server structure limits gank squads. (See #1 about having fun). Being beaten by overwhelming odds that you can't hope to overcome due to sheer numbers, overpowered gear, etc is never fun. This game prevents that. With only 6 ships per server, and them being randomly assigned, you are not likely to end up in a situation where you can't do ANYTHING because the same people always kill you. The seas are big, ships are spaced, and it generally requires beacons in the sky to get the ships to come together. There are ways to sail the seas solo safely and get stuff accomplished. It depends on how far you are willing to press your luck. (And sometimes you do get unlucky).

3. Gains/losses are, in reality, trivial. Don't get me wrong, losing hours of work stacking a fort and losing hundreds of thousands or over a million in loot is painful, and can put me off for the rest of the day. However, in the end, loot buys cosmetics. Advancement unlocks cosmetics. Legendary unlocks cosmetics. So, yes, your hours of loot might have been lost, but at the end of the day you really haven't gained or lost anything tangible. You didn't dig up that ultra-rare sword that lets you FINALLY kill that boss you wanted to kill, only to have it stolen by someone who didn't do the work, setting you back days, weeks, or months in a questline or raiding scene. Your cash didn't go up, and you have to now work again to build up towards that cosmetic you were working towards. Those losses sting, but not as bad as in other games.

All of this creates a situation where the game is fun outside of PVP, which keeps people playing.

Now, the other part. I've ended up in a couple of Alliance servers. I've ended up regretting it every time. I make money, which is good. But the alliance servers lack the tension that the very real possibility of PVP brings to the game. It removes the risk/reward structure of the game. No longer are you worried about pressing your luck, if you see another ship it means nothing. When that is gone, the rest of the game loses something, it's just not as much fun.

All this is entirely accurate and extremely well written but you have to remember it’s your singular perspective and your opinions based on how you like to enjoy the game.

Other people exist who greatly enjoy that lack of tension you so desperately love. Other people exist who greatly enjoy meeting other random people, striking a polite conversation and working together towards a common goal.

Both options are of valid experiences that can be had in this pirate sandbox. Neither opinion is either wrong or right it’s simply possible depending on what you enjoy most about Sea of Thieves.

So although you’re reply is extremely well written and pleasing to read it’s just a single perspective of many perspectives that can all be had and all are equally valid.

No. As a matter of fact, not all ARE equally valid. If someone wanted to introduce a "Blue shell cannonball" that could one-shot a ship from across the map, I doubt you would consider that idea valid. If people wanted to implement "pirate flying saucers" to fly around in, that, also would likely not work well in a pirate game, and not be valid.

While those ARE extreme examples, it strikes to the core of your assertion. This game has a vision, and people are enjoying that vision. Certain ideas can end up being harmful to that vision, and reduce player retention. So, while my experiences on alliance servers ARE my own, I've found them to be shared by virtually every other players I randomly end up grouped with. That tension IS important to the game, if you removed it, it would most likely end up hurting the game in the long-run, and reducing the enjoyment and retention of most of the other players in the game, and THAT is what ends up making one perspective more valid than another.

@scheneighnay no, it isn't. This game is designed to be PvPvE. Rare has clearly and without a doubt stated such. So PvP is natural. Not all who PvP are sweatlords, I'd say the majority ain't. Voyages take time, so player interaction can take playc, friendly or otherwise. It is definitive NOT common sense saying PvP is not part of the gameplay loop on Sea of Thieves. Other play styles are valid.

Also please stop using words like "sweatlord" to everyone doing PvP. It's really derogatory. Thanks.

@gosva5434 please use return key to space out your thoughts, or at least a tldr (summary). This is too much of a chaotic mess for me to commit my eyes to

@scheneighnay Yea, okay. I guess this conversation is over here, you have nothing of value to say. Speak to others as not equals, that's not the way to bring your point through. You wouldn't like me calling everyone doing PvE "Noobs" or "Scrubs", would you? I respect others I talk to. I value other viewpoints, well as long they dont insult me ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: The response is deleted, saying it was meant to be derogatory. This is my answer to that response.

@pinkkarma834915 said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@tybald said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@pinkkarma834915 said in "No one owes you a fight...":

@tybald said in "No one owes you a fight...":

I'll state. I'm NOT a PVP player. Most full-loot PVP games I find are bad, and tend to devolve into ganking with overwhelming odds in favor of the PVP players. It's a bad experience, and tends to end up leaving most of those games losing players over time, until it's nobody but PVP players left, complaining about how the game is boring.

Sea of Thieves IS NOT one of those games. They've managed to strike a balance in "wolves" and "Sheep" in a way that other games simply cant. There are three primary reasons:

1. It has to be fun to be a "sheep." If the people killed are not having fun, they leave. That's partly why there's so much behind developing new "things" to do in the world, as opposed to more ways to PVP. The PVP is fun in and of itself, but people have to want to do the OTHER things, or they leave. Sea of thieves has made a game where sailing the seas, fighting skellies, and digging up treasure is FUN. The game is fun to play even without killing other players.

2. The server structure limits gank squads. (See #1 about having fun). Being beaten by overwhelming odds that you can't hope to overcome due to sheer numbers, overpowered gear, etc is never fun. This game prevents that. With only 6 ships per server, and them being randomly assigned, you are not likely to end up in a situation where you can't do ANYTHING because the same people always kill you. The seas are big, ships are spaced, and it generally requires beacons in the sky to get the ships to come together. There are ways to sail the seas solo safely and get stuff accomplished. It depends on how far you are willing to press your luck. (And sometimes you do get unlucky).

3. Gains/losses are, in reality, trivial. Don't get me wrong, losing hours of work stacking a fort and losing hundreds of thousands or over a million in loot is painful, and can put me off for the rest of the day. However, in the end, loot buys cosmetics. Advancement unlocks cosmetics. Legendary unlocks cosmetics. So, yes, your hours of loot might have been lost, but at the end of the day you really haven't gained or lost anything tangible. You didn't dig up that ultra-rare sword that lets you FINALLY kill that boss you wanted to kill, only to have it stolen by someone who didn't do the work, setting you back days, weeks, or months in a questline or raiding scene. Your cash didn't go up, and you have to now work again to build up towards that cosmetic you were working towards. Those losses sting, but not as bad as in other games.

All of this creates a situation where the game is fun outside of PVP, which keeps people playing.

Now, the other part. I've ended up in a couple of Alliance servers. I've ended up regretting it every time. I make money, which is good. But the alliance servers lack the tension that the very real possibility of PVP brings to the game. It removes the risk/reward structure of the game. No longer are you worried about pressing your luck, if you see another ship it means nothing. When that is gone, the rest of the game loses something, it's just not as much fun.

All this is entirely accurate and extremely well written but you have to remember it’s your singular perspective and your opinions based on how you like to enjoy the game.

Other people exist who greatly enjoy that lack of tension you so desperately love. Other people exist who greatly enjoy meeting other random people, striking a polite conversation and working together towards a common goal.

Both options are of valid experiences that can be had in this pirate sandbox. Neither opinion is either wrong or right it’s simply possible depending on what you enjoy most about Sea of Thieves.

So although you’re reply is extremely well written and pleasing to read it’s just a single perspective of many perspectives that can all be had and all are equally valid.

No. As a matter of fact, not all ARE equally valid. If someone wanted to introduce a "Blue shell cannonball" that could one-shot a ship from across the map, I doubt you would consider that idea valid. If people wanted to implement "pirate flying saucers" to fly around in, that, also would likely not work well in a pirate game, and not be valid.

While those ARE extreme examples, it strikes to the core of your assertion. This game has a vision, and people are enjoying that vision. Certain ideas can end up being harmful to that vision, and reduce player retention. So, while my experiences on alliance servers ARE my own, I've found them to be shared by virtually every other players I randomly end up grouped with. That tension IS important to the game, if you removed it, it would most likely end up hurting the game in the long-run, and reducing the enjoyment and retention of most of the other players in the game, and THAT is what ends up making one perspective more valid than another.

Wrong. If full server alliances were not supposed to be possible then the developers would have added physical limitations to the alliance mechanic to prevent that from happening.

To many players only think about themselves and the most common experience that can be had but there are a multitude of ways to enjoy this game.

They include but are not limited too:

Tall Tale-ing, Fishing, Voyaging, Completing Full Scale World Events, Completing Small Scale World Events, Interacting with another crew in a non-hostile manner, Attacking another crew, sinking other ships, not sinking other ships showing mercy.

ALL WAYS TO PLAY ARE EQUALLY VALID AND FUN TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

Sea of Thieves is a sandbox game at its very core that gives players the freedom to approach the world and the other players within it in whatever way and manner they see fit.

Not understanding that is a very selfish way of thinking. And it’s harmful to this game.

Calm down and take a deep breath. I never said that alliance servers were wrong. I said that the game "loses something" on them.

Alliance servers are hard to set up due to the random nature of the game. I do find it ironic that the way they get set up is by essentially harassing non-alliance server boats off the server, and then forcing it down through very strict authoritarian rulesets in order to be free of people playing "the wrong way".

Though, I would point out that the reason Rare shut down the Sea Dog Arena was because they decided it was in the best interest of the game to NOT split the player base up into different playstyles. That should give you a clue about the thought of setting up official "safe" servers.

I will agree with one thing. The new player experience in this game is "bad," but not for the reason you suggest. The new player experience is "bad" because it teaches the raw mechanics of the game, but doesn't do a good job of actually introducing new players into the game. In fact, "open crew" these days doesn't work very well. I've ended up moving to the SOT discord to set up or join crews in the game. It creates a much better experience, and one that would likely introduce players to how the game ACTUALLY plays better than trying to jump into a random open crew.