Remove double gun

No thank you. I’ll play my way and you’ll play you’re way. Zero need to get upset over someone doing something differently.

@scurvywoof No thank you, your way is clearly terrible for the game and involves a culture of glitch abuse and "doing whatever it takes to win".

@lleorb said in Remove double gun:

@gallerine5582 These are not a few encounters, they are the majority in fact, 80% of the double gun players I encountered in pvp mode had a low or medium notion of naval.

They only stand out using the double gun.

I've even seen some who preferred not to try naval and kept running away to try to board, a tedious game.

In short, they stand out for having a better aim, not game experience.

This I actually think is the bigger issue than double gunning.

I did not buy a game where I have to raise and lower sails, raise and lower the anchor, fire the cannons, steer the ship, et cetera, to play another vanilla primary/secondary firearm FPS. Sailing is what makes this game unique. Naval is what makes this game unique. And it's not the watered down type of naval you get from AC: Black Flag, Skull and Bones, or Sid Meier's Pirates. It's callused hands, sail the ship, honest to goodness naval activities.

If you want an FPS, go play an FPS. There exist a hundred better shooter games than this. If I wanted bunny hopping gun-kata I'd go play Overwatch. I want to work with a crew to sail a ship and fire cannons and collect loot. Boarding should be the final step to secure the sink, not the first thing you do because TDM skill can compensate for lack of naval skill.

Double gunning is absolutely the problem: you can kill a pirate much quicker and much further away with two guns than with a sword and a gun. Two things at the top of my wishlist are friendly fire from cannons (to prevent early boarding) and locking the sword as your first weapon. It's just thematic and encourages naval over FPS bunny hopping.

@mistuhmarz said in Remove double gun:

I've always thought it would be cool to see a defensive move in order to maneuver against those double shots.

I play a lot of Apex, the slide function helps in missing/dodging shots.

Something in this nature could maybe balance the double gun skill vs a quick pirate.

A Duck Function in SoT?

Just because you can't duck doesn't mean there's no cover. Masts, barrels, the brig, there are plenty things that can obstruct your pirate. The deck of the ship is the worst place to engage the double gunner, go down below and make him come down there. Close the distance, punish him for not carrying a sword.

@lordqulex said in Remove double gun:

@lleorb said in Remove double gun:

@gallerine5582 These are not a few encounters, they are the majority in fact, 80% of the double gun players I encountered in pvp mode had a low or medium notion of naval.

They only stand out using the double gun.

I've even seen some who preferred not to try naval and kept running away to try to board, a tedious game.

In short, they stand out for having a better aim, not game experience.

This I actually think is the bigger issue than double gunning.

I did not buy a game where I have to raise and lower sails, raise and lower the anchor, fire the cannons, steer the ship, et cetera, to play another vanilla primary/secondary firearm FPS. Sailing is what makes this game unique. Naval is what makes this game unique. And it's not the watered down type of naval you get from AC: Black Flag, Skull and Bones, or Sid Meier's Pirates. It's callused hands, sail the ship, honest to goodness naval activities.

If you want an FPS, go play an FPS. There exist a hundred better shooter games than this. If I wanted bunny hopping gun-kata I'd go play Overwatch. I want to work with a crew to sail a ship and fire cannons and collect loot. Boarding should be the final step to secure the sink, not the first thing you do because TDM skill can compensate for lack of naval skill.

Double gunning is absolutely the problem: you can kill a pirate much quicker and much further away with two guns than with a sword and a gun. Two things at the top of my wishlist are friendly fire from cannons (to prevent early boarding) and locking the sword as your first weapon. It's just thematic and encourages naval over FPS bunny hopping.

This needs to be a post in an of itself lol, it's so easy to see that many of the PvP sweats and that kind of crowd basically want this game to be COD and if Rare refuses to make the PIRATE GAME we all love and enjoy to play and continues towards this watered down COD then we're going to have a lot of problems.

I've mentioned so many times before that Rare clearly shows interest in their game not being PvP focused, by way of all the casual and dumb things you can do (drinking, playing music, fishing). They should continue to expand on this and make it the pirate game it was always supposed to be and keep the PvP simple and directed. The bugs and abuses needed to be patched and worse case remove double gunning entirely. Also, nerf pineapples. (whether by heal or by not allowing purchase of them)

@gallerine5582 said in Remove double gun:

@n0soup4u said in Remove double gun:

@scurvywoof No thank you, your way is clearly terrible for the game and involves a culture of glitch abuse and "doing whatever it takes to win".

He never said anything about the double gun quick swap. Equipping two guns is not any kind of "glitch abuse culture" or whatever. I'm sure everyone here has their head screwed on right and can see the quick swap should be removed, but let us use whatever weapons we want

Look at the ocean and not the puddle of what was said. He originally said "play how I want" this includes what I mentioned in response to him. Say whatever you think about what double gunning "technically is", fact of a matter is those who do it typically fall in the category I listed, and likely they're doing more than double gunning, hence the "glitch abuse culture"

@n0soup4u Ah, yes, 'My way'. I like the generalisation that all double gunners use exploits. In reality, this is far from the truth.

And 'doing whatever it takes to win' is easily applied to actually intended components of the game, like blunder bombs and fire bombs.

I have integrity and refuse to use exploits that give clear advantages over others. Whether you want to believe it or not doesn't matter to me, but I know that you wouldn't like it if I made a generalised statement about all PvE'ers or sword users, right?

Good day

@lleorb said in Remove double gun:

@gallerine5582 These are not a few encounters, they are the majority in fact, 80% of the double gun players I encountered in pvp mode had a low or medium notion of naval.

I like those numbers. Where'd you get them? A guess-timate from personal experience I assume?
That's not the experience for everyone so I wouldn't be passing it off as 'everyone's experience' when it really isn't.

Myself, I rarely find double gunners and the few I do find seem fairly new to the game or new to the playstyle.

@scurvywoof

fact of a matter is those who do it typically fall in the category I listed, and likely they're doing more than double gunning, hence the "glitch abuse culture"

Not even going to entertain you because you haven't moved passed the level of thinking that's required to understand that no one ever means "all" when they make generalizations.

And 'doing whatever it takes to win' is easily applied to actually intended components of the game, like blunder bombs and fire bombs.

As far as this goes, no. During S8 people were clearly using blunderbombs not as they were intended, otherwise they wouldn't have been nerfed. Either that or you have to concede Rare is incompetent

@sinjaming Search up any scumlords PvP youtube you'll find plenty. Can I describe all of them? No, because I do not use them and as such I do not necessarily know how they work. I will list a few to give you examples though. Also, can we stop focusing on the "double gunning" part of what I said because I clearly mentioned a key distinction: The PvP Culture. Double gunning is merely a result because the exploits that come with it and the cancerous abusive metas (whether abuse of glitches or abuse of Rares unintended implementations)

There's a ladder glitch where some how players are able to spam grab the ladder going up and down and shooting someone with their eye of reach while not being able to be hit back (or else it is very difficult to do so).

There is silent ladder grabbing, people are able to grab your ladder and board without you hearing the sound that rare intended for you to hear. I've seen people shoot cannons without the recoil animation thereby not blocking their view for the next shot and potentially firing faster (though I'm not sure about the faster shooting part).

There was a glitch to multiply the amount of fruit you were able to buy by having each of your crew buy the fruit supplies at the exact same time and thereby placing 25 (for a gally) pineapples into your fruit barrel (this was patched but abused none-the-less)

Some parts of the boat and be attacked or shot through (whether its intentional or not is beyond me but as far as I'm concerned most developers would want their objects to function as solid objects)

I was shown someone doing the shovel animation faster than me and was told you can bucket faster as well (they didn't tell me how, however) perhaps this is part of animation cancelling which also is a problem that benefits double gunning.

I'm not gonna go around and do my homework to try and prove my point: There's constantly a meta of people trying to break and abuse the game and that meta is prevalent among the top of the PvP community and it spreads downwards to those who even want to attempt to compete against them. You can suggest there are people that do this in other games but I've found it more prevalent in SOT, simply because of the lack of attention the PvP balance has been given by Rare and their inability or indifference to controlling their communities culture and direction

As I've stated in a previous comment, Rare could also be at fault for their lack of awareness or simply their incompetence in balance. What I mean by this is: something could clearly be unbalanced (as PvP is as a whole, not specifically to do with double gunning or swords, but overall) and Rare could simply not know about it. This is why blunderbombs existed for as long as they did and only got nerfed after it took the same culture of people to spam and create a toxic and unfun PvP environment for Rare to realize "this is not what we intended for this item to do".

@sinjaming So, again, you've failed to actually read all of what I said because otherwise you'd understand the point of the post and not the mere specifics of it and as such I'm not going to acknowledge the points you've listed (some of which aren't even valid because they either ignore the implications or simply came to the wrong conclusions).

You asked for examples, I gave you examples whilst also explaining it isn't about the specifics it's about the culture and then you try to strawman my argument by "debunking" the examples I gave and saying "no problems here boys everything's all good".

Edit: I made a mistake on the amount of pineapples, but that doesn't change the fact that getting x4 the amount of supplies is unfair