"Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.

  • "Runners" in solo HG PVP are a frustrating problem. I've had a few fights now against runners.

    What's a runner?

    My opponent has realized I can out-naval and out-TDM them so they've resorted to running. They simply sail forward and back across the circle or circle around the edge of the borders making no attempt to naval me or board me. The runner hopes you lose patience and hopes you sail yourself out of the zone by accident when you're trying for a board. The runner also hopes you'll try to ram them, especially if they're at the zone's edge. The player ramming the runner has no shots and may inadvertently take lots of damage or sail out of the zone in the process.

    Not all long fights are a result of running

    Not all long fights are because of running. It's important to note that a "runner" is much different from a stalemate fight. A stalemate is when two equally skilled players are damaging each other so much via naval and boarding, etc., that it leads to a long drawn-out fight because of failures to capitalize and multiple resets. I like stalemate fights as they're super intense, and even if it comes down to supplies in the end, you at least learn something. A "runner," on the other hand, isn't even engaging in naval/boarding you.

    Is running META?

    Sadly, running seems like a META tactic especially if you've no life and hours to kill. Conserve your supplies and wear out the patience of your opponent in the hopes they quit or make a mistake. Any competent player can catch mast now that sloops are so tanky so chaser's chains are ineffective. Chasers only have a few options, a lucky deck shot or board, RAM-strat, some harpoon play? As you wear down the patience of your opponent, they might try to ram or sail themselves out of the zone while whiffing a board. All of these scenarios give you an advantage where you as the runner have opportunities to capitalize from a position of advantage.

    Solutions? I've been trying to figure out if this is simply a skill issue for me (which is possible). I've about 600 hours, and I don't consider myself a terrible player. I've about a 50/50 W/L solo slooping but haven't really had the opportunity to play as much this season as usual.

    Solutions

    Long-term: Rare needs to make the circle shrink over time so fights come to a decisive end within a specific time period. If this is not done or not possible, the rewards should scale as per fight length. I would be in favor of the former solution. I don't think hourglass solo sloop PVP fights should go on longer than 30 minutes in my opinion, and a shrinking zone would bring even stalemate fights to a decisive end.

    Short-term: What do you guys think can be actively done to combat this play style? Some sort of harpoon play by reeling their boat so you've an angle? Honestly, I'm open to any suggestions as I'm always looking to improve my game.

    Is running a valid playstyle?

    I've thought about this a good bit and I don't think it is. Emergent running (before HG) is valid. Running if you've lots of loot or from a bigger or more skilled crew is valid. In adventure, you don't owe anyone a fight and there's a skill ceiling in how to run, involving angling sails, harpooning terrain, boarding a chasing ship etc. Solo HG PVP is different though. You opt-in knowing that your going into a winner takes all scenario to practice and hone your naval and TDM skills in an arena. Disengaging from combat and simply sailing back and forward across the arena, making no attempt to engage in combat until your opponent slips-up, runs out of supplies or dashboards from sheer frustration seems counter to the entire spirit of the mode. Runners take advantage of the fact the sloops are equally matched in speed to prolong fights. The running META makes it less about your skills/game knowledge and more about how much time you've free to sink into one boring fight. It strikes me as incredibly cheesy.

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  • It the chase all over again, this without Red Sea. and the pvp players are not happy about it.

    I dont know what your doing wrong, but as a Defender, I come prepared for these runners. They never see a rowboat/cannon coming.... muhahahaa!

  • Should have left red sea alone.

    A plague on yer houses lol.

  • @burnbacon I disagree. It's not the chasing in adventure mode debate over and over again. There's a big distinction between running in normal adventure (emergent) PVP and running in the dedicated PVP Hourglass mode. Running in adventure mode is valid. Running in Hourglass PVP and not engaging at all in combat in a dedicated PVP mode is not valid. See my last paragraph on "Is running a valid playstyle"

  • @pithyrumble This is not a PVP players vs PVE player situation lol. Hourglass is a dedicated PVP mode so the recent red sea changes aren't particularly relevant.

  • You can't force someone to fight you.

    They can't run forever. Skill helps cut them off.

  • @personalc0ffee If they've opted into hourglass, the PVP mode, they should be forced to fight naval or TDM!!! Not evade you to drag the fight out for two hours. This is literally the entire point of hourglass PVP.
    They can literally run forever especially in solos as sloops are the same speed if both players are equally skilled at sail management/helming. I honestly don't think this is a skill issue but I'm open to hearing some solutions.

  • @dr-sweendog said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    I honestly don't think this is a skill issue but I'm open to hearing some solutions.

    According to this community, it is always a skill issue.

  • First of all, this is a very well-structured and written post so probs to you!

    Now, I agree with you. The Hourglass-pvp mode is full of these cheesy boring tactics that just ruin the sense of battle. I and some friends have been actively thinking about how one could make Hourglass-pvp better.

    I think, that there should be some kind of "tie" system. Let's just say that after a certain time, one of the crews can admit that its a tie and either both crews get merged away from the server they are on, or one of the crews is a defender that was invaded during a voyage only the attacker get merged back to their old server.
    Now I admit that there are probably some problems and flaws with this system but it's a start.
    We could also add a "surrender" system. Same as the "tie" system, if a certain amount of time elapses, one of the crews can "surrender", giving up fighting while also not losing their ship and supplies.

    These are just some silly ideas but feel free to add or criticize it in any way!

  • Only really had a couple serious runners in hg, one weird champion brig and a solo slooper who had ghost curse, was good at defending boards and harpoon turning, couldn't shoot cannons to save their life though and most petty person I've met in the mode, toxic spamming, shooting all their cannons out to ensure no supplies won etc

  • @missinggoat9824 a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    Now, I agree with you. The Hourglass-pvp mode is full of these cheesy boring tactics that just ruin the sense of battle. I and some friends have been actively thinking about how one could make Hourglass-pvp better.

    Increase allegiance and reduce the grind. We've been through this like forever. We all saw the improvements on community day and that week-end.

    Players who ENJOY what they do don't cheese games. They want the curses too. You're wasting their time too, from their perspective.

    Fix hit reg. Fix all the bugs. Make it so 1 win = 1 level and 1 loss = half. I bet you won't see much runners, cause the mode would be at least tolerable, if still not enjoyable

  • @dr-sweendog said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    • My opponent has realized I can out-naval and out-TDM them so they've resorted to running.
    • They simply sail forward and back across the circle or circle around the edge of the borders making no attempt to naval me or board me.
    • The runner hopes you lose patience and hopes you sail yourself out of the zone by accident when you're trying for a board.
    • The runner also hopes you'll try to ram them, especially if they're at the zone's edge.
    • The player ramming the runner has no shots and may inadvertently take lots of damage or sail out of the zone in the process.

    So, I hate to say it, but what you described to me were tactics. I can't win naval, I can't win melee, so let me win psychologically and wait for my opponent to make a mistake. That's how a friend of mine used to describe professional hockey—all the players are so good that the winner didn't play better, they just made less mistakes than the loser.

    To me, the "running problem" is a bad faith participant doing nothing but trolling their opponent. If they realized they can't beat you at naval, they tried. If they realized they can't beat your melee, they tried. Running and hoping you make a mistake seems like plan C, which is not a good plan but still a plan.

    Edit: As you've described above, running isn't the META (most effective tactic available), seems like a last-ditch effort to me. 🤣

  • @lordqulex I agree that running in HG is a tactic. Its actually the META= "the most effective tactical advantage" this is the entire concern. Like I've explained though, I don't think it's a valid playstyle or tactic, given the entire spirit of the hourglass mode. See the section of the post entitled "is running a valid playstyle in HG". I don't think the META of HG should be where your opponent can disengage entirely and just run and not attempt to fight to frustrate you is the spirit or point of HG

  • @jolly-ol-yep I agree on Hit -Reg and stuff but I don't think the grind for curses should be reduced. Make the fights shorter by reducing the ring and the grind will go quicker.

  • I had a match last night that lasted over 2 hours as my opposition wanted to run away and I had no intention of chasing them around.

    So a game of patience was taking place.

    This player was a "INV TO WIN" player and was sending me plenty of invites to which I was just ignoring.

    After an hour I heard a few cannon shots and figured I was now wearing down their patience, confirmed when I saw a mermaid closing towards my ship.. so I sailed away and raised sails again determined to outlast this person's tactics.

    Finally, as I approached an island a rowboat had appeared and there was a keg on the island. 10 mins later and the match was over as I blew up their ship and won..

    I was on no streak and really should've just quit after 10 minutes, but for some reason it wound me up to the point I was prepared to outlast them and make them quit no matter how long it took.

    This is not the first time I've done this.. I need help 🤣

  • @needsmokes I continue to be fascinated by stories like this. There are certain play styles and tactics used at MMRs that are giving different pirates different experiences. I have not experienced anything like this.

  • @dr-sweendog a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    @jolly-ol-yep I agree on Hit -Reg and stuff but I don't think the grind for curses should be reduced. Make the fights shorter by reducing the ring and the grind will go quicker.

    No. Just no. This isn't a battle royale. And some people love long fights.

    Do this and the first new meta that arises is "wait for the timer to end to engage". This is obvious.

    Just accept that people won't do what you expect them to. It's called tactics.

    That being said, runers are a real pain BUT :

    • their experience is the most miserable one. Long fights, that they don't even win sometimes (yeah just like the post before I WILL make sure they don't get the win)
    • It's just a lottery for them : Are you gonna give up after 2 min ? Are you gonna chase them for a few hours ?

    All I'm saying is, and I'm alone saying this : These folks still ENJOY doing this MORE than actual PvP.
    That's telling something huge noone wants to hear : This mode is not enjoyable and is a pain for most people, still most people will do it for the curses.

    I'd argue that yes, rewards have EVERYTHING to do in this. Make it so 1 loss = the same base XP (or just half) as a win (with a system of bonus XP for the winner), like any other games do, and the problem is fixed.

  • I tend to stop and raise sails do small circles and start shooting out hoping to long swim and board them. They will still just circle my ship from a mile away until I can get on and sail them out. When you run into a runner in fog or a storm it is hard to want to stay in match though.

  • @dr-sweendog To answer your question, it's a skill issue and nothing needs to be changed. Especially no shrinking circle.

    A runner going back and forth is very susceptible to boarding. And if you can out TDM them (a misnomer since there is no "team" is solo sloop fights) then you can easily sail them out of Bounds.

    If they go around the outer circle, you inherently have the advantage because you can parallel them and your path is a slightly smaller diameter circle. You will catch up to them and force them into a broadside exchange. Good deck hits bust up the wheel. That's not luck. They can't catch the mast, turn out of your broad, bail, and tank all at the same time. And then you can board (still in a tighter circle than they are so you have no danger of going out of Bounds) and finish the sink or sail them out of Bounds yourself.

    Or, ram strat IS valid. A good ram does much more damage to them than it does you AND you can literally jump on board. You time your ram well and you WILL sink them before you sink with tike to spare to save your ship. And the risk of sailing out of bounds is minimal because tounanage your ram to be near the center (back and forth runners) or while you are in a turn (circle or erratic runners) so your ship circles with a nice tier 1 hole while you let the tier 3 hole you just rammed into them send them to the sea. And if they kill you and repair it, they are better than you are letting on and your whole argument about them running because they are bad is void.

    In short, if you can handle a runner, you can skill up. The game doesn't need to change to accommodate lack of skill.

  • I've been humiliated by tactics like this before as well, and the most I can say is: Just let them win bro lol

    If you're not going to be good enough to hit the right shots that leave them immobilized, then they've got all the room available to make their own judgement plays against you, they picked the "cheapest" one, but it's much less cost-effective than actually trying to get better at combat by going in head-on. Either you give them the free win intentionally, or you just don't win. It ain't gonna be fun, but if you're not going to get better, the fun will never come to you, as far as the PvP community is concerned.

  • I agree that running to avoid combat is a problem in HG. If the circle were to shrink over time, it would definitely help with runners. Having said that, evading shots is different from running. One of the tactics that I have used in the past was baiting out shots to drain supplies. I have done it a few times when I was really low on supplies. It reminds me of Flameheart. "Your supplies must be dwindling by now." Sailing just far enough away to make the other crew waste cannonballs has been a valid tactic. I have sunk over 140 ships and received the ghost curse, most of it through solo slooping. Running for the sake of running is a terrible tactic and something should be done to fix it.

  • @jolly-ol-yep said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    @dr-sweendog a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    @jolly-ol-yep I agree on Hit -Reg and stuff but I don't think the grind for curses should be reduced. Make the fights shorter by reducing the ring and the grind will go quicker.

    No. Just no. This isn't a battle royale. And some people love long fights.

    Do this and the first new meta that arises is "wait for the timer to end to engage". This is obvious.

    Just accept that people won't do what you expect them to. It's called tactics.

    That being said, runers are a real pain BUT :

    • their experience is the most miserable one. Long fights, that they don't even win sometimes (yeah just like the post before I WILL make sure they don't get the win)
    • It's just a lottery for them : Are you gonna give up after 2 min ? Are you gonna chase them for a few hours ?

    All I'm saying is, and I'm alone saying this : These folks still ENJOY doing this MORE than actual PvP.
    That's telling something huge noone wants to hear : This mode is not enjoyable and is a pain for most people, still most people will do it for the curses.

    I'd argue that yes, rewards have EVERYTHING to do in this. Make it so 1 loss = the same base XP (or just half) as a win (with a system of bonus XP for the winner), like any other games do, and the problem is fixed.

    This is a false comparison and is pretty obviously "confirmation bias." To a Carpenter, everything looks like a nail and only needs a hammer. You have this idea that allegiance needs to be upped that every post is evidence to back up your position.

    In reality, people who " just want the curse" will loss farm or do the invite to win trope. They won't spent two hours running. The idea that two hours running is an efficient way to the curse is ludicrous and upping allegiance won't change that. They won't "suddenly" engage in PvP or suddenly switch to loss-farming. They will still run.

    I am taking no position on whether allegiance needs to be upped in this post. That's a separate debate that has been had ad-nauseum with others I am only saying that it is not a solution to the OP and is off-topic here, and doesn't need to be brought up in every post you think it can be shoved into. It isn't winning people to your side but it is winning you a few detractors who see it as mildly self serving and rude.

    Might wanna consider that you are doing more harm than good to your cause by trying to get that into EVERY conversation.

  • @strangeness a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    Might wanna consider that you are doing more harm than good to your cause by trying to get that into EVERY conversation.

    Roger that. I don't really care anyway as I'm only playing this game casually now.

    But if people could stop making the same threads over and over again too....

    Let's just say I think this (allegiance boost) would at least alleviate the issue, but yeah, I agree, you just can't change trolls that just wanna troll. Multiplayer game 101. You can mitigate stuff but at the end, users will always decide how they play, and if they decided to mess with you, well too bad but I'm afraid nothing can be done. Certainly not a shrinking area or a time limit that would only entice those trolls to troll more.

    Rare really need to focus on pleasing the legit players first imo, who are beginning to hate this mode, then maybe deal with cheesers.
    In short, I'm in the "issues create cheesers" category rather than in the "cheesers create issues" one

  • @personalc0ffee It's annoying and ruins the pvp experience. Why even argue about it? With all the changes for QOL, why not a PVP timer to fix the issue? This community has become increasingly toxic.

  • @captgraykid So people that don't play like you demand it and/or disagreeing with your are toxic now? I think it's more like you are being toxic now, since you seem to demand obedience now or else you accuse them of being toxic...

    People are allowed to disagree with you and they are allowed to play by their own tactics, whether you like those or not. It's even what the game is about: tools not rules. The game is built for people using different tactics to achieve what they want. You might find their tactics in hourglass boring and unfun (wich a lot will agree with, including me), but it's definitely not toxic.

    Toxic is if you insult, use ...ism-slurs or spawncamp without intent to sink.

  • @captgraykid a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    @personalc0ffee It's annoying and ruins the pvp experience.

    Agreed.

    Why even argue about it?

    He wasn't

    With all the changes for QOL, why not a PVP timer to fix the issue?

    Because this won't fix the issue at all ? (as discussed at length in many place on these forums)

  • @needsmokes said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    I had a match last night that lasted over 2 hours as my opposition wanted to run away and I had no intention of chasing them around.

    So a game of patience was taking place.

    This player was a "INV TO WIN" player and was sending me plenty of invites to which I was just ignoring.

    After an hour I heard a few cannon shots and figured I was now wearing down their patience, confirmed when I saw a mermaid closing towards my ship.. so I sailed away and raised sails again determined to outlast this person's tactics.

    Finally, as I approached an island a rowboat had appeared and there was a keg on the island. 10 mins later and the match was over as I blew up their ship and won..

    I was on no streak and really should've just quit after 10 minutes, but for some reason it wound me up to the point I was prepared to outlast them and make them quit no matter how long it took.

    This is not the first time I've done this.. I need help 🤣

    This is exactly the type of experience I'm talking about to a tee. It needs to be addressed by Rare. Someway to limit the length of HG encounters.

  • @lordqulex @NeedSmokes story is exactly the problem I've been experiencing. I've encountered this multiple times and it's incredibly frustrating. Really ruins HG totally.

  • @jolly-ol-yep Listen I think we both agree that the running playstyle needs to be addressed. This is progress because a lot of people in this community think "meh it's a skill issue".
    I love long, stalemate fights aswell if my opponent is actually engaged and challenging me.
    I don't think reducing the grind and de-valuing the ghost/skele curse cosmetics is the way to accomplish this though. Everyone has PL, we need some cosmetics to denote PVP players. All other cosmetics are accomplishable through PVE

  • We usually manage to sink those eventually. And I would not put someone resetting and running in the same category, which might be difficult to judge properly in a tight situation. Some just like to play it safe.

    But it seems to me, that chainshots and curseballs seems to be an easy fix to this problem.

    This is why I once again disagree with the path the developers have chosen to take. The game should not balanced(PVP side) towards the worst players, but instead should be balanced towards the best of the best.

    If the best of the players 0.1% really felt that chainshots and curseballs are causing an unpredictable outcome to their fights, because of some exploit like ability - Chainshot/curseball, is deciding the outcome of the battle, then so be it, we have lesser respawns of those utilities and we just need to come up with a different solution to this problem.

    But if anchorballs and chainshots were more common, this would only be a skill issue rather than someone running away, testing ones patience. Otherwise the hourglass needs 'settings adjustment'' like sudden death or similar.

    At the same time, running away only works against certain people/crews. You could run away, but if we are not 'farming' but we came to win (even if we are ready to take an L) we will just park in the middle of the map playing shanties, testing your own patience and trying to sink you as an opportunity arises.

    And in 100+ levels on hourglass cant remember a single instance where one tried to win with playing our patience, or at least they did not succeed enough for us to really take notice.

  • @nex-stargaze All the thing's you've said regarding PVP tips are solid and I'll take them all on board. The thing I want you to consider though are the consequences of "just let them win bro".

    Before that though I wanna detail two hour match out with you. Me and my opponent we're almost equally skilled (according to SBMM). I dominated in TDM and naval interactions when he engaged me so he switched to running. I couldn't get consistent broads on him as he was just running and cutting across the circle. I had like five chains and knocked his mast twice but couldn't capitalize. So sure you could say I wasn't skilled enough on the helm in that moment of panicked and whiffed up setting my death spiral up quickly. When he was actually engaging me earlier in the fight I outplayed, outhelmed, out canoned etc.

    I go for a ram as he's on the edge of the map. He gets three canon balls in my ship as I ram, So now I have an extra hole vs his three when I ram. I anchor my ship just as I ram, board and anchor him. We fight, he jumps off his boat. I set his boat on fire and as I'm do so he swims to my boat and unachors it. I get a quick board on my boat and ladder grab. He ladder guards and blunders me. By the time I respawn my boat is gone. Should I of secured the kill after anchoring him, sure. It struck me as an incredibly cheesy victory by him because he had disengaged so much that he forced me to play risky and ram because I didn't have all day to fight.

    This is the problem. If your against a runner, the chaser has to play risky meaning passive play is incentivised. "Why shouldn't you let him win, because it further incentivises passive play and running. What happens to HG mode when the majority of the playerbase catches on to this and everyone starts running because its the best strategy?

  • @zig-zag-ltu said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    We usually manage to sink those eventually. And I would not put someone resetting and running in the same category, which might be difficult to judge properly in a tight situation. Some just like to play it safe.

    But it seems to me, that chainshots and curseballs seems to be an easy fix to this problem.

    This is why I once again disagree with the path the developers have chosen to take. The game should not balanced(PVP side) towards the worst players, but instead should be balanced towards the best of the best.

    If the best of the players 0.1% really felt that chainshots and curseballs are causing an unpredictable outcome to their fights, because of some exploit like ability - Chainshot/curseball, is deciding the outcome of the battle, then so be it, we have lesser respawns of those utilities and we just need to come up with a different solution to this problem.

    But if anchorballs and chainshots were more common, this would only be a skill issue rather than someone running away, testing ones patience. Otherwise the hourglass needs 'settings adjustment'' like sudden death or similar.

    At the same time, running away only works against certain people/crews. You could run away, but if we are not 'farming' but we came to win (even if we are ready to take an L) we will just park in the middle of the map playing shanties, testing your own patience and trying to sink you as an opportunity arises.

    And in 100+ levels on hourglass cant remember a single instance where one tried to win with playing our patience, or at least they did not succeed enough for us to really take notice.

    "I would not put someone resetting and running in the same category, which might be difficult to judge properly in a tight situation. Some just like to play it safe."

    Thats a very important point right there and I tried my best to make that clear in the OP that stalemates are not the same as runners.
    I only had like five chains in the fight so sure everything your saying about chain shots and curses is very valid.
    The instance that made me post this was an instance where he tested my patience for two hours forcing me to ram and be disadvantage as he got three shots into my hull. I anchored myself as I rammed so I didn't sail out of zone. Anchored and rammed him to but I failed to kill him and he jumped off onto my ship and ladder guarded. As i had more holes, I sank first. Should I of secured the kill, sure I sunk because I had more holes and I had more holes because I was forced to RAM-Strat

  • @strangeness said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    @jolly-ol-yep said in "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode.:

    @dr-sweendog a dit dans "Runner" META will ruin solo Hourglass PVP mode. :

    @jolly-ol-yep I agree on Hit -Reg and stuff but I don't think the grind for curses should be reduced. Make the fights shorter by reducing the ring and the grind will go quicker.

    No. Just no. This isn't a battle royale. And some people love long fights.

    Do this and the first new meta that arises is "wait for the timer to end to engage". This is obvious.

    Just accept that people won't do what you expect them to. It's called tactics.

    That being said, runers are a real pain BUT :

    • their experience is the most miserable one. Long fights, that they don't even win sometimes (yeah just like the post before I WILL make sure they don't get the win)
    • It's just a lottery for them : Are you gonna give up after 2 min ? Are you gonna chase them for a few hours ?

    All I'm saying is, and I'm alone saying this : These folks still ENJOY doing this MORE than actual PvP.
    That's telling something huge noone wants to hear : This mode is not enjoyable and is a pain for most people, still most people will do it for the curses.

    I'd argue that yes, rewards have EVERYTHING to do in this. Make it so 1 loss = the same base XP (or just half) as a win (with a system of bonus XP for the winner), like any other games do, and the problem is fixed.

    This is a false comparison and is pretty obviously "confirmation bias." To a Carpenter, everything looks like a nail and only needs a hammer. You have this idea that allegiance needs to be upped that every post is evidence to back up your position.

    In reality, people who " just want the curse" will loss farm or do the invite to win trope. They won't spent two hours running. The idea that two hours running is an efficient way to the curse is ludicrous and upping allegiance won't change that. They won't "suddenly" engage in PvP or suddenly switch to loss-farming. They will still run.

    I am taking no position on whether allegiance needs to be upped in this post. That's a separate debate that has been had ad-nauseum with others I am only saying that it is not a solution to the OP and is off-topic here, and doesn't need to be brought up in every post you think it can be shoved into. It isn't winning people to your side but it is winning you a few detractors who see it as mildly self serving and rude.

    Might wanna consider that you are doing more harm than good to your cause by trying to get that into EVERY conversation.

    Yea sorry @jolly-ol-yep, I agree that allegiance needs to be increased but this is a stretch. This is the section I agree with the most.

    In reality, people who " just want the curse" will loss farm or do the invite to win trope. They won't spent two hours running. The idea that two hours running is an efficient way to the curse is ludicrous and upping allegiance won't change that. They won't "suddenly" engage in PvP or suddenly switch to loss-farming. They will still run.

  • @captgraykid I agree dude. Any annoying problem with this game and the community reacts "meh its a skill" issue. I'm a decent player with 1000 hours. Sure there are people better than me but sometimes its cheesy flaws in game mechanics.

  • @strangeness I agree, allegiance shouldn't be upped. There should be at least some cosmetics in this game that are status symbols for PVP players. All other cosmetics in this game are PVE obtainable.

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