Increase Sloop Speed

  • Introduction

    I've mentioned in a couple of topics on the Red Sea loot change how balance is really the sticking point for many. In theory, I have no objections to the change should that imbalance be attended to.

    The imbalance being relative ship speeds.


    Background

    Currently, we don't have any actual hard data on the relative ship speeds beyond a very old test (some time in the first 2 years of the game). The video has since disappeared from YouTube, it seems, so I can't link to that original source. If anyone can find it, please post below.

    For a long time it was treated as fact, though a test by Flotsam last year or so suggested things had changed since that old video. Bare in mind that the old video used software to find the speeds, so there's no reason to question the results were accurate at the time.

    Flotsam's tests included a number of trials to arrive at the conclusion that the brigantine is simply faster than a sloop in all scenarios.

    Indeed, the Sea of Thieves Wiki shows the relative speeds as such:
    alt text

    That chart uses Flotsam's video as its source and states:

    A common misconception is that the Sloop is faster than the Brigantine upwind. This is in fact not true, as upwind the Brigantine is the fastest, followed by the Sloop and then the Galleon.

    However, we still don't have updated figures on the speeds, so for this post I am going to refer to the old data (shivers in Inscryption).

    This shouldn't matter too much as it won't really change the suggestion of this post:

    Increase the sloop speed by 10%


    Numbers

    Old ship speeds comparison (Source: Unknown/possibly deleted/outdated):

    alt text

    As you can see from the original numbers, the sloop loses out to the brig and galleon in almost every scenario. The one scenario where it would gain ground is directly into the wind with its sails flat. Assuming the brig used the same strategy, the sloop would gain 0.05m/s. That means, if both ships sailed perfectly, it would only get ahead by 3 meters every minute.

    Again, that is the only scenario, according to the old data, where the sloop gets ahead (Flotsam's tests are even more dire).

    Of course, in actuality, the wind direction shifts often and the brig only needs a few moments of a close reach to make up distance.

    So, I suggest that the sloop's speed be buffed by 10%. This would put the numbers like this:

    alt text

    With these adjusted numbers, the sloop would still lose out in any tailwind or crosswind scenario but would be able to gain ground in a headwind. It would also be penalised less for sail positioning and/or a slow reaction to wind changes.

    Obviously, sloop v sloop is still going to come down to skill but those encounters are typically 1v1, 2v1, or 2v2, so the imbalances are less common and less detrimental.

    In addition, increasing the sloop speed would benefit the game by cutting down time spent sailing for duos and solos. I would see this as a big QOL improvement.

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  • I don't believe these numbers at all.

    If the sloop speed is increased then dead wind shouldn't be a advantage to anyone

  • @ajm123 the brig does overtake the sloop on dead wind and dummy sails but it’s a VERY slow overtake.

    Personally I believe all ships so should go the same speed in dead wind regardless.

  • @ajm123 said in Increase Sloop Speed:

    I don't believe these numbers at all.

    I did address that. These are the only hard numbers we have currently. Flotsam's video, while thorough, didn't include any figures. But, it makes little to no impact on my suggestion and the fact the speeds are not balanced currently.

    If the sloop speed is increased then dead wind shouldn't be a advantage to anyone

    I would say that the fact "sails to stupid" exists is silly and counter-intuitive. But I think it could be an off-shoot of how the physics engine works rather than hard coding in each scenario. If that's the case, then only general buffs can work rather than ones dependent on the situation.

  • I had thought sloops went fastest upwind, in fact here on the forums people frequently say that is how you get away on a sloop when attacked by a larger crew. But I have never seen that work in game.

  • @foambreaker said in Increase Sloop Speed:

    I had thought sloops went fastest upwind, in fact here on the forums people frequently say that is how you get away on a sloop when attacked by a larger crew. But I have never seen that work in game.

    It used to be how it worked, but some think the ship speeds changed at some point. No one has numbers, so we can't definitively say how it works. There is lots of guesswork and some sciencing being done, but we don't know how accurate it could be. The only reason we have some old numbers is because of a 4-5 year old youtube video that used injection to get position data and estimate speeds.

    I don't think Rare did anything with the speed given to the ships through the sails, but it's likely something else changed that affected how they react to the waves or on the water. The video with data was before expanded ship damage and before the hulls were changed and harpoons were added. It's possible that something somewhere along the way accidentally and stealthily changed the effective speed of one or more of the ships.

  • @realstyli
    Speaking from experience, I'd be in favor of this change. (I was chased by a Brigantine once, so I put my sloop into the wind with the sails adjusted accordingly, but they still caught up to me after ten minutes or so)

    Alternatively, maybe we could nerf the Brigantine just a smidge? The Brigantine is already a super vessel; it's fast, hard to hit because it's more or less flush with the water, and it has decent maneuverability/firepower, especially with all three available players on board. I'd be surprised if a lot of players balked at a slight decrease in speed.

  • What they REALLY need to do is fix it so that either no ship gets benefit from tacking without full billow or every ship gets benefit from tacking without full billow.

    As it stands right now on the sloop you actually go slower if you try to tack the sail without full billow and you actually go faster if you flatten the sail.

    This makes no sense because on the inverse side

    A brig gets speed benefit for tacking without full billow but it slows down if you flatten the sail.

    To make it really simple: If the wind is coming at an angle to the sail but you can't get full billow, if you are on a sloop you have to square/flatten the sail or you will lose speed.

    This needs fixed.

  • @personalc0ffee a dit dans Increase Sloop Speed :

    To make it really simple: If the wind is coming at an angle to the sail but you can't get full billow, if you are on a sloop you have to square/flatten the sail or you will lose speed.

    This needs fixed.

    This doesn't.

    This exist for gameplay purposes, to have a kind of a rock-paper-scissors between the 3 ship types. You should be able, regardless of what ship you're on, to be the fastest, according to how you put yourself towards the wind.

    The real issue is that brigs can compete with sloops when fully against the wind

  • @foambreaker Because it does not.
    Brigs catch up to sloops against the wind.

  • @vic-kestrel said in Increase Sloop Speed:

    @foambreaker Because it does not.
    Brigs catch up to sloops against the wind.

    And that is a problem because balance wise these things are what make 3v1 or 4v1 actually work. Now sloops have essentially no escape, and telling people to "git guud" who are on a solo sloop being attacked by a 3 person crew is just pixel macho horse hockey.

  • @realstyli funny thing about this is, i have seen the vid from flotsam so i know what he experienced.

    However i have always been able to outsail any ship with my sloop.

    However i do feel that there is been some changes applied to stuff without realising the broad consequences, for instance.

    Ever since they changed that ship turning by storm doesn’t happen at islands anymore ships with raised sails take ages to actually come to a halt.

  • If the numbers are right, which is funny to question since I posted that chart myself, something should be done to help the sloop out for sure.

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