Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot

  • Over the years this game has developed and changed, there has been an incredibly obvious shift in how easy it is to get rewards from... basically anything. Every couple of minutes it feels like I'm just being gifted gold or doubloons for seemingly no reason, whether it be the Plunder Pass filler tiers, the forgotten daily deeds that I end up doing by accident, weekly insider rewards, the occasional twitch drop, etc.

    Gone are the days of actually fighting FOR LOOT.

    Any year 1 player will remember the good old days of having to fight for a single fortress that rewarded maybe 20k for selling everything. Nowadays I'll be doing good to even see a single solo sloop in the general area as I complete an Ashen Winds or FoF.

    Any year 2 player will remember the (what I would call best times of this game) days of having to fight the entire server for a single FOTD, because of the athena reward and extreme profit from one run. Once again, nowadays I rarely see FOTDs at all, and when one is up there's usually maybe 2 ships there, almost always in an alliance. Athena chests are... pretty worthless, they're so easy to get anymore, sprinkled around randomly just to make things appealing, like the FoF.

    Personally, I would like to drive things back towards that actual "risk = reward" playstyle, because it's so easy to get anything and cash in without any risk. I've been playing a lot of Hunt Showdown recently and have compared a lot of that game to this (especially cosmetics, they got more pirate-y cosmetics over there despite being a cowboy game...), and one of the biggest things I've noticed is the cash-out reward for successfully extracting; maybe it's not massive or gives you tons and tons of stuff, but it FEELS satisfying knowing you've just survived the entire server, whether it was a mad dash to extract or fighting off everyone on your way out, when you get that reward it feels good. SoT has so many ways to get so many rewards it doesn't even feel that good to finish a session after making like 200k because of how easy it is.

    To balance out a couple of things and bring back that feeling of success when defending your goodies until you get a chance to sell, I propose;

    • Making world events a lot rarer. Currently it's maybe 10 minutes tops between world events spawning, as soon as you complete one, there's another one ready on the horizon.

    • Making Reaper Chests a lot rarer, and raising the reward for them. I simply cannot remember the last time I actually cared about going to get a reaper chest in the past 2 years. Splitting their doubloon/gold value between 2 chests and just making them overall kinda pointless in terms of reward for having to go out of your way for them was just not a good move. Merge their rewards back into one chest again, or buff them considerably.

    2 fairly simple changes, right? Just making things rarer. Sure there are still voyages and sea forts people can do if they wish to avoid the risk of combat as much as they can, but with the high value of World Events and increased value of Reaper Chests, hopefully that would encourage some more interaction between crews when one spawns. This doesn't necessarily mean it will make it extreme pvp either, just bringing more crews together on one location as world events were designed to do can lead to both positive and hostile interactions, making the game a whole lot more interesting at the end of the day, because be honest; PvE with nothing different gets boring after a while.

    Something else to consider, I would also like to see a "regional loot value" added to the map; increasing the chance of more valuable loot and rewards towards the centre of the map (excluding the Devils Roar, cause that's just unfair). The centre of the map is where people are most visible to everyone else, so why not make it so if you want the better reward, you have to take the chance of being seen more? How it is right now just leaves players scattered around the edge of the map making tens or hundreds of thousands of gold, same as those risking it all right in the heart of the storm.

    So what I'm trying to say here with this is basically:

    When the servers are this small and can only support a very small number of crews, it is important to bring interaction, risk, and reward, to the play sessions in such servers. Otherwise, the session feels static, unexciting, and in the long run, boring.

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  • tldr; Has played a long time and is bored, the old stuff got old.

  • this sounds like you want world event things out of the sky for screen shots lol

    it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for generating higher risk activity

    people stopped taking risks because pvpers started cheesing rather than investing and pvers adapted as content increased

  • Any year 1 player will remember the good old days of having to fight for a single fortress that rewarded maybe 20k for selling everything.

    Yup.

    Athena chests are... pretty worthless

    When were they ever not worthless?

    I rarely see FOTDs at all, and when one is up there's usually maybe 2 ships there, almost always in an alliance.

    and if you attack these kids, they complain about it. Or if the alliance betrays each other :p

  • @gallerine5582 Also another personal issue: World Events and Reaper chests are an absolute eyesore when you're just trying to get a nice screenshot. I'm not sailing from Golden Sands to Old Faithful to pick up a 10k chest just to get rid of a rainbow beacon.

    When these are your reasons, not wanting to move your thumb stick or mouse slightly left or right for a screenshot..... The ego on some folks....Smh

  • @r3troraccoon said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 Also another personal issue: World Events and Reaper chests are an absolute eyesore when you're just trying to get a nice screenshot. I'm not sailing from Golden Sands to Old Faithful to pick up a 10k chest just to get rid of a rainbow beacon.

    When these are your reasons, not wanting to move your thumb stick or mouse slightly left or right for a screenshot..... The ego on some folks....Smh

    The fact THAT was your main takeaway from all this concerns me.
    Plus sometimes "just moving your thumb stick or mouse slightly left or right" isn't enough or doesn't get the right angle so don't hit me with "errr the ego of people..!"
    Tell me you've never even attempted SoTshot without telling me you've never attempted SoTshot.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    this sounds like you want world event things out of the sky for screen shots lol

    it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for generating higher risk activity

    people stopped taking risks because pvpers started cheesing rather than investing and pvers adapted as content increased

    aaand again someone's main point against me is the screenshot thing... I never should've mentioned it...

    But yes, making the best money-gaining methods rarer will drive more people to want to do them as soon as they pop up, which in turn, will make more people come together because they'll learn that's where people are going more often for money, whether they want combat or an alliance. PvP or PvE whatever, people stopped taking risks because the risks got lesser and lesser until it's at where we are now.

  • @foambreaker said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    tldr; Has played a long time and is bored, the old stuff got old.

    Unfortunately, that was the wrong answer! Thanks for playing!

    Yes, I am a long time player, yes, pve content got boring, but, that will happen to everyone and everything no matter how long they're around the game if there's nothing there to make the experience unique, and what better way to make a unique experience than other players. Nothing is more unpredictable than someone else's goals and thought processes.

  • @gallerine5582 I've never taken an EGO shot in SoT no, sorry, can't say I have. I have never gotten so angry over not being able to get a silly screenshot perfectly. So, in kind, please tell me your still in grade school without telling me your still in grade school. "Mom, SoT won't let me take a good PicTure!!! Make them stop!!!"
    Yeah, sorry, I can't relate friend. There's actually issues I'm this game, not whining over perfect screenshot angles.

  • @gallerine5582 aaand again someone's main point against me is the screenshot thing... I never should've mentioned it...

    Well, yes, it's does come off as whiny sweaker with a touch of "mom, make them stoooop" syndrome. But the fact you DID put it in the post mean it does mean a lot to you. Especially glossing over such other major issues to complain about. You pick something in your screenshot background as the hill you fall on.... Do you arrange all your loot to look prettiest right before you sell for a photo alot? Always posing in new emotes in front of a sell spot, loot spread out? How many do you need, one to remember every loot haul? I'm talking of game killing issues where if they don't address them you won't be able to take your "SoTshot"

  • @foambreaker said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    tldr; Has played a long time and is bored, the old stuff got old.

    I wouldn't say that.
    I've only played about a year and I can still say the game has a lot of dead content that shouldn't be, just because the time investment isn't worth the reward compared to newer content.

  • I don't agree about making activity rarer as I believe that would backfire in people being bored with the game. You can't expect solo sloopers to go after Ashen winds if they see a galleon and brig going for it.

    FoTD lost its charm I agree, but that's because it takes a crew of 3-4 to do it properly and the rewards are not the same anymore. I would only increase the reward value and people would once again be going after it.

    I love the idea of increasing the loot value in the center of the map.

    It's really hard to find balance that would fit everyone, without having dedicated servers, divided by crew size.

    A lot of your mentioned ideas would be perfect if everyone had the same mind set and same crew size.

    But reducing rewards is not the way to go, if you play a lot only the trinkets on your ship that normally can seen by yourself cost millions. So if players would spend days on end to just upgrade one thing or get one cosmetic the grind would feel unrewarding. Now we are overwhelmed in choices of where to spend hard earned gold. If anything I would boost the rewards in hopes that more of expensive cool items would be added.

    For example, I don't even really like the Ancients ship set (athenas) but one piece costs like 500k? I would still like to have it as the road to level 30 took many hours, I really dislike the costume tho.

    So I think the new players have hundreds of options in where to spend their gold, perhaps the variety of choices is lacking for rich old timers.

    One thing I would like to see tho is more cosmetics added for things that are hard to earn. What those would be can only be limited by imagination.

  • @r3troraccoon said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 I've never taken an EGO shot in SoT no, sorry, can't say I have. I have never gotten so angry over not being able to get a silly screenshot perfectly. So, in kind, please tell me your still in grade school without telling me your still in grade school. "Mom, SoT won't let me take a good PicTure!!! Make them stop!!!"
    Yeah, sorry, I can't relate friend. There's actually issues I'm this game, not whining over perfect screenshot angles.

    Again, the fact that you're insulting me based on a single sentence in my entire post tells me all I need to know. IIt is clear you're so blind to not see beyond my PERSONAL PREFERENCE BENEFIT part and just want to be as immature as you wish to call me, twisting my words against me has got to be the most pathetic means of insulting me.

    This post was made to benefit the entire game, reading anything more than the big bold letters would tell you that, but it's clear you're stuck to a joke comment I made along the side. Please take a walk outside or even attempt to make constructive criticism against my post if you so have the means to do so.

  • @gallerine5582 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @wolfmanbush said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    this sounds like you want world event things out of the sky for screen shots lol

    it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for generating higher risk activity

    people stopped taking risks because pvpers started cheesing rather than investing and pvers adapted as content increased

    aaand again someone's main point against me is the screenshot thing... I never should've mentioned it...

    But yes, making the best money-gaining methods rarer will drive more people to want to do them as soon as they pop up, which in turn, will make more people come together because they'll learn that's where people are going more often for money, whether they want combat or an alliance. PvP or PvE whatever, people stopped taking risks because the risks got lesser and lesser until it's at where we are now.

    I wouldn't say using it against you as I would support making world events and reaper chest lights a toggle on/off if that is possible

    I'm a big supporter of screen shot taking in the game and understand how some things are an eye sore in that process.

  • @gallerine5582 That's what I was kind of getting at. To find such balance is really difficult, I believe when they talk about them in the office and things make a lot of sense, some pirates here will always find an angle that they did not think exists. But taken into consideration I think the rewards for new and old are better than ever. When I started I really did not care about majority of cosmetics as there was nothing I wanted that would not take a good crew to get. Now even a solo slooper can get cool stuff.

    P.S. Insiders is like Vegas, what happens there, stays there. Perhaps you wanna edit that bit out, as you might loose the privilege. They take the protection of that content rather seriously. Just a friendly tip, almost got into trouble over it once myself :)

  • @wolfmanbush said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @wolfmanbush said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    this sounds like you want world event things out of the sky for screen shots lol

    it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for generating higher risk activity

    people stopped taking risks because pvpers started cheesing rather than investing and pvers adapted as content increased

    aaand again someone's main point against me is the screenshot thing... I never should've mentioned it...

    But yes, making the best money-gaining methods rarer will drive more people to want to do them as soon as they pop up, which in turn, will make more people come together because they'll learn that's where people are going more often for money, whether they want combat or an alliance. PvP or PvE whatever, people stopped taking risks because the risks got lesser and lesser until it's at where we are now.

    I wouldn't say using it against you as I would support making world events and reaper chest lights a toggle on/off if that is possible

    I'm a big supporter of screen shot taking in the game and understand how some things are an eye sore in that process.

    yeah I gotcha now, dw. In the long run, I would just like to see them add a mode similar to Warframe's "Captura mode" so I can just load up private servers, free cam, in-game editing such as depth of field, custom lighting, all that jazz.

  • @zig-zag-ltu said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582

    P.S. Insiders is like Vegas, what happens there, stays there. Perhaps you wanna edit that bit out, as you might loose the privilege. They take the protection of that content rather seriously. Just a friendly tip, almost got into trouble over it once myself :)

    yeah I know about the rules of insider, but what I don't really get is what was breaking those rules? I only know as much as what is mentioned in the podcast episode, but for safety I suppose I'll just get rid of what I suspect was an issue 🤷

  • @gallerine5582 Not sure about what could be an issue and what not, but I think its best to be on the safe side ^^

  • I would tend to agree. Personally, I think that they just need to buff defending HG a ton. Maybe even make the treasure grades act as a second emissary flag. Also, reveal all hourglass players on the map, they're seeking PvP, and currently, reaper HG is literally worse because of how the emissary flags work. Rework FotD and FoF to add more loot. Maybe even make Veils visible across the whole map. And perhaps even make a PvP-based WE. Also, buff the rewards for sinking and becoming a faction ship to encourage more HG uptime. I don't think WE need to be rarer, or not spawn as often. I think making defending significantly better and revealing players creates more PvP situations, for example, currently, it takes about 1 WE and a Sea Fort to get to grade 5 Reaper. Defending takes a minimum of 3 world events or like 10 sea forts. It encourages stacking and when people stack, it encourages PvP. Lots of loot on the line. 2.5x extra gold and rep for the treasure grade 5 on top of 2.5x for the emissary flag. Lots of benefits to defending with HG on top of being able to get extra allegiance on every faction sink. This encourages stacking loot, doesn't devalue WE, and with the addition of being revealed on the map, makes these HG defenders easier to spot, track, and promotes PvP. Seeing a grade 5, faction streak 4, treasure grade 5 reaper on the map obviously is going to draw the servers attention.

  • @gallerine5582 oh Gallerine, the forums... this is why I rarely say anything here...

  • @gallerine5582

    I think the challenge here is the (un/intentional?) effect hourglass has had on adventure mode. You know where everyone who wants likes PVP is? Hourglass. You know where everyone who is capable of stealing treasure is? Hourglass. You know where all the Reaper 5's who can see emissaries on the map are? Hourglass. Or running PVE reapers...

    The truth is, very few pirates outside of hourglass want to fight over a world event. FoF takes too long so it isn't time efficient. Reaper WE is still the fastest way to make money, but Merchant lost shipments is a very close second. If you want players to interact we need to go back to simple voyages. Rare made it so that voyages concentrate ships in the same general area. The way to get more ships in a smaller area is to get them to do voyages instead of WE. So buffing voyages may be better than nerfing world events.

  • The sessions feel boring now because almost everyone is diving for hourglass pvp, and those who don't are basically new players that don't want to approach world events because they fear to get sunk or just feel overwelmed with all the stuff they could do.

  • From a PVE-focused player's perspective:

    The seas have been flooded with other ways to earn gold easier and quicker than doing world events. PvPers (especially tuckers and hoppers) have made world events just not worth the time investments vs risk. Essentially, PvPers have over-fished the seas and the fish have adapted.

    PvEers are not stupid, we're not going to bother to do an event that is highly likely to be lost to a bigger/better crew... and we know there are a lot of highly-skilled PvPers out there that we don't stand a chance against. There's no SBMM in Adventure either.

    If there are commendations tied to the event (particularly ones that unlock cosmetics), we might do it just for that and then never touch it again. When I needed Ashen Winds, I often did them without a ship, because I didn't care about the loot/gold, just the completions. I usually buried the loot and posted the map.

    If you want to get PvEers to go near world events then lower the risk and time, and increase the rewards. Having some sort of "consolation" prize just for taking part would also be an incentive.

  • @crowedhunter Comparitively yes

  • @fysics3037 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 oh Gallerine, the forums... this is why I rarely say anything here...

    yeah this place to me has always been a good spot to suggest something, but I always have to prepare myself and remind myself that there will always be a handful of people that pick apart everything to, what I call "Find 100 ways to disagree with you.", even if it's something that literally cannot be a negative change to easily 95% of the active playerbase. I'm not saying this specific post is that change, but one of my QoL recommendations in the past.

  • @gallerine5582 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @fysics3037 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 oh Gallerine, the forums... this is why I rarely say anything here...

    yeah this place to me has always been a good spot to suggest something, but I always have to prepare myself and remind myself that there will always be a handful of people that pick apart everything to, what I call "Find 100 ways to disagree with you.", even if it's something that literally cannot be a negative change to easily 95% of the active playerbase. I'm not saying this specific post is that change, but one of my QoL recommendations in the past.

    Exactly why I have a good chunk of the forum just blocked at this point. There's plenty that it's impossible to have a constructive discussion with no matter how hard you try.

  • About bringing players together. I often wonder about things behind the scenes.

    Like if I'm doing a gold hoarder voyage, is the server aware of perhaps another crew that is maybe doing OoS voyages, and then send us to the same island, prompting interaction?

    I like the idea of a valuable sector in a risky area

    As for world events, increased rewards is always good BUT I want RNG to play a bigger part. Have a chance for a chest of legends, or a chest of grog, or even chest of tributes to spawn. Some highly valuable, rarer items

  • @scheneighnay said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @fysics3037 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582 oh Gallerine, the forums... this is why I rarely say anything here...

    yeah this place to me has always been a good spot to suggest something, but I always have to prepare myself and remind myself that there will always be a handful of people that pick apart everything to, what I call "Find 100 ways to disagree with you.", even if it's something that literally cannot be a negative change to easily 95% of the active playerbase. I'm not saying this specific post is that change, but one of my QoL recommendations in the past.

    Exactly why I have a good chunk of the forum just blocked at this point. There's plenty that it's impossible to have a constructive discussion with no matter how hard you try.

    ha, constructive criticism, more like the same 3 guys going to every post saying "idea bad because it doesn't apply to MY exact playstyle"
    but yes for the sake of not getting this thread locked for just ranting off topic, I should probably utilise blocking people more and move on with it lol

  • @paparug420 said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    About bringing players together. I often wonder about things behind the scenes.

    Like if I'm doing a gold hoarder voyage, is the server aware of perhaps another crew that is maybe doing OoS voyages, and then send us to the same island, prompting interaction?

    That is actually quite an interesting idea I can't say I've put a lot of thought into, ngl.. I reckon it would be good to see something like that implemented in the more advanced voyages as players progress their factions, allowing new players a bit of breathing space to learn the game before being thrown into the mix...

    I like the idea of a valuable sector in a risky area

    As for world events, increased rewards is always good BUT I want RNG to play a bigger part. Have a chance for a chest of legends, or a chest of grog, or even chest of tributes to spawn. Some highly valuable, rarer items

    I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of the idea of more rng tbh, but as long as it's only rng for getting extremely good stuff I reckon that'd be good to get people to take their chance at doing it, but if there's rng to give worse than usual I feel like it would've been better to just leave it as is

  • @gallerine5582 definitely NOT worse rewards. RNG would just be a chance to spawn higher value loot.

    Like how sometimes a dig quest will reward a chest of sorrows

    RNG

  • @lordqulex said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582

    I think the challenge here is the (un/intentional?) effect hourglass has had on adventure mode. You know where everyone who wants likes PVP is? Hourglass. You know where everyone who is capable of stealing treasure is? Hourglass. You know where all the Reaper 5's who can see emissaries on the map are? Hourglass. Or running PVE reapers...

    The truth is, very few pirates outside of hourglass want to fight over a world event. FoF takes too long so it isn't time efficient. Reaper WE is still the fastest way to make money, but Merchant lost shipments is a very close second. If you want players to interact we need to go back to simple voyages. Rare made it so that voyages concentrate ships in the same general area. The way to get more ships in a smaller area is to get them to do voyages instead of WE. So buffing voyages may be better than nerfing world events.

    The problem is everyone is diving, clogging slots, not that they are DOING hg.

  • @honestauntyelle said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @lordqulex said in Over-crowded horizons and worthless loot:

    @gallerine5582

    I think the challenge here is the (un/intentional?) effect hourglass has had on adventure mode. You know where everyone who wants likes PVP is? Hourglass. You know where everyone who is capable of stealing treasure is? Hourglass. You know where all the Reaper 5's who can see emissaries on the map are? Hourglass. Or running PVE reapers...

    The truth is, very few pirates outside of hourglass want to fight over a world event. FoF takes too long so it isn't time efficient. Reaper WE is still the fastest way to make money, but Merchant lost shipments is a very close second. If you want players to interact we need to go back to simple voyages. Rare made it so that voyages concentrate ships in the same general area. The way to get more ships in a smaller area is to get them to do voyages instead of WE. So buffing voyages may be better than nerfing world events.

    The problem is everyone is diving, clogging slots, not that they are DOING hg.

    That's a problem that will fix itself. Between dice rolling and invite peddling, it's only a matter of time before pirates get cursed and get out of hourglass. Plus once season 9 drops, all the seasonal pirates will return to earn the new rewards.

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