@ardyason Ok, I now see the problem, you are not defending "loot", you are defending a faction. Defending loot is a misnomer.
Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile
Did you just imply the Q should be longer so you can get more loot?
No... Just no. I implied that you need time to gain some loot for it to have a purpose. If I'm invaded every 5 minutes then that just defeats the whole purpose of defensive mode, I may aswell just dive, this is the whole point of why it's pointless. Give a grace period for PvE to be completed, win/lose gain your allegiance bonus. Rinse repeat. The attractiveness of defensive mode should be that you are able to play a session similar to how you would normally with the periodic invasion increasing your risk of sinking. If you want a battle right now, dive for it.
That kills it, I am going to start server hopping to find "Hourglass" ships that are really PvE ships collecting loot.
Please do, you'll find nobody.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@ardyason said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker
Hum... It may have changed and perhaps I'm mistaken but you can get invaded when you are near land. At least at the beginning of the season it happened to me. Stocking up at a skeleton fort while defending, got invaded by someone, sunk (but that's on me).
Perhaps Rare changed it. But still, the huge problem with defending is that you can sail for 4 hours straight and never get invaded, meanwhile on your map you see Invader vs Invader battle pop up now and then at the edge of the sea...You are still in the world, anyone can still attack you without diving, they can see you on the map. Especially if you are parked at a fort.
Rare disabled allegiance gains for organic battles in adventure mode as a way to disincentivize alliance defending. And you can only seen on the map if you are a faction champion, which you are not if you are not invaded four times.
@a10dr4651 said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Did you just imply the Q should be longer so you can get more loot?
No... Just no. I implied that you need time to gain some loot for it to have a purpose. If I'm invaded every 5 minutes then that just defeats the whole purpose of defensive mode, I may aswell just dive, this is the whole point of why it's pointless. Give a grace period for PvE to be completed, win/lose gain your allegiance bonus. Rinse repeat. The attractiveness of defensive mode should be that you are able to play a session similar to how you would normally with the periodic invasion increasing your risk of sinking. If you want a battle right now, dive for it.
That kills it, I am going to start server hopping to find "Hourglass" ships that are really PvE ships collecting loot.
Please do, you'll find nobody.
There is (an alleged) 20 minute timer between invasions when defending faction treasure. That is enough time to sail from A to B, do a sea fort, or do a world event if you're crew is large/skilled enough. I would bump that up to 40 so that there is actually faction treasure to defend between invasions.
@foambreaker
I think you do not see the problem in reality.
Defending as it is now will not allow you to level up your allegiance and this is because of one thing. The game prioritize Invader vs Invader battle. Defender seems to be at the bottom of the queue line every time.
Once again, you can sail for 4 hours (I did it multiple times) and never get invaded yet you get less than 10 sec of waiting time (solo sloop in EU for me) if you dive.
That is the problem with defending, you actually never defend because you never get attacked by an invader.@lordqulex I don't know what the official number is. I've timed mine and had 13 minutes, over an hour and another time 2 hours with nothing so I dived. 30-40 minutes seems like a nice figure to me.
@sweetsandman as much as I agree that defending should be worth it.
Look at the facts you really think rare will do this? They should have already done it but haven't. Mode is just full of sweats now. Just let the mode die.
@ardyason said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker
I think you do not see the problem in reality.
Defending as it is now will not allow you to level up your allegiance and this is because of one thing. The game prioritize Invader vs Invader battle. Defender seems to be at the bottom of the queue line every time.
Once again, you can sail for 4 hours (I did it multiple times) and never get invaded yet you get less than 10 sec of waiting time (solo sloop in EU for me) if you dive.
That is the problem with defending, you actually never defend because you never get attacked by an invader.Yes it will, if you sail into open water and wait you will get a pop in a few minutes, what you are doing it causing the wait.
Try it.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@ardyason said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker
I think you do not see the problem in reality.
Defending as it is now will not allow you to level up your allegiance and this is because of one thing. The game prioritize Invader vs Invader battle. Defender seems to be at the bottom of the queue line every time.
Once again, you can sail for 4 hours (I did it multiple times) and never get invaded yet you get less than 10 sec of waiting time (solo sloop in EU for me) if you dive.
That is the problem with defending, you actually never defend because you never get attacked by an invader.Yes it will, if you sail into open water and wait you will get a pop in a few minutes, what you are doing it causing the wait.
Try it.
I just tested this to be sure, sailed into open water, started hourglass and waited, got a battle in less than 2 minutes. Killed the invite spamming Athena, went back to port, sold my hourglass logged out and here I am.
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Isn't that...like...the idea behind defending?
Also, I'd challenge "being at an island" as the reason for a wait...the handful of times I've actually been invaded as a "defender", I've been parked at a Sea Fort stocking up.
@sweetsandman said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Isn't that...like...the idea behind defending?
Also, I'd challenge "being at an island" as the reason for a wait...the handful of times I've actually been invaded as a "defender", I've been parked at a Sea Fort stocking up.
The idea for defending is you get to choose the battle location.
Even if you are near land you can still be attacked by other defenders or adventurers, because you are visible on the map, but a "diver" will not surface when you are near land.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
I just tested this to be sure, sailed into open water, started hourglass and waited, got a battle in less than 2 minutes. Killed the invite spamming Athena, went back to port, sold my hourglass logged out and here I am.
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Being near land has nothing to do with it. I've invaded ships parked at an outpost and been invaded while doing the same. I've been invaded fighting or just finishing a sea fort.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@sweetsandman said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Isn't that...like...the idea behind defending?
Also, I'd challenge "being at an island" as the reason for a wait...the handful of times I've actually been invaded as a "defender", I've been parked at a Sea Fort stocking up.
The idea for defending is you get to choose the battle location.
Even if you are near land you can still be attacked by other defenders or adventurers, because you are visible on the map, but a "diver" will not surface when you are near land.
You do realize that only faction champions appear on the map right? Unless you exclusively raise Reapers no one intrinsically knows where you are.
You can be attacked by adventurers but since they disabled allegiance gains for non-invasions there is no hourglass rewards for fighting them. You need to be invaded or turn in the hourglass to get the rewards, but both are some pretty poor rewards.
I'm thinking that the inconsistency of defending is more likely due to server capacity rather than where you are positioned. If the matchmaking doesn't use the 6th ship slot as a temporary, there is no room to add an invading ship if the server is full. One of the ships would need to dive away or quit in order to open up a new slot for an invader first.
Defending should be top priority match for an invader if it isn't already. Defending bonus also needs to be increased substantially for win or loss, based on the amount of hoarded treasure since you are taking increased risk over just diving and the additional time required.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@sweetsandman said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Isn't that...like...the idea behind defending?
Also, I'd challenge "being at an island" as the reason for a wait...the handful of times I've actually been invaded as a "defender", I've been parked at a Sea Fort stocking up.
The idea for defending is you get to choose the battle location.
Even if you are near land you can still be attacked by other defenders or adventurers, because you are visible on the map, but a "diver" will not surface when you are near land.
This is blatantly incorrect and false information. I've literally been on islands doing dig quests and been invaded, having to sprint back to my ship to prepare for battle
I've been doing fort of fortune and been invaded.
Being at sea or land has no bearing on whether you are invaded or not.
I've played a lot of defender and if you are here actually legitimately trying to state it is "fine" as is. Try leveling up exclusively by playing defence.
It will take 10x times longer than by simply diving. Defence needs tweaking and improving
@d3adst1ck said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
Defending bonus also needs to be increased substantially for win or loss, based on the amount of hoarded treasure since you are taking increased risk over just diving and the additional time required.
Yes! Such a simple solution but exactly what could make defending viable. Buff the XP rewards for losing AND winning depending on faction grade.
The amount of loot it takes to reach grade 5 is still too high. By reaching gold hoarder emissary 5, then doing the emissary quest, you'll still only be somewhere between rank 3 or 4.
That is nuts
@d3adst1ck said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
I just tested this to be sure, sailed into open water, started hourglass and waited, got a battle in less than 2 minutes. Killed the invite spamming Athena, went back to port, sold my hourglass logged out and here I am.
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Being near land has nothing to do with it. I've invaded ships parked at an outpost and been invaded while doing the same. I've been invaded fighting or just finishing a sea fort.
Being attacked by an hourglass ship that was also defending, or some random reaper, is not the same as having a ship that dived come up in front of you.
If you are not near land the wait is the same for diving or defending. Plain and simple. Sail out in the middle of the water away from land and "defend", you will get a pop in a minute or two.
I tested this just this morning.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@d3adst1ck said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
I just tested this to be sure, sailed into open water, started hourglass and waited, got a battle in less than 2 minutes. Killed the invite spamming Athena, went back to port, sold my hourglass logged out and here I am.
Your wait is self inflicted because you keep going near shore to farm loot.
Being near land has nothing to do with it. I've invaded ships parked at an outpost and been invaded while doing the same. I've been invaded fighting or just finishing a sea fort.
Being attacked by an hourglass ship that was also defending, or some random reaper, is not the same as having a ship that dived come up in front of you.
If you are not near land the wait is the same for diving or defending. Plain and simple. Sail out in the middle of the water away from land and "defend", you will get a pop in a minute or two.
I tested this just this morning.
I'm talking about ships that dive out of the water. You are wrong, and can be invaded while parked at an island.
Here's a video where you can see someone getting invaded while parked at Plunder Valley to try to do Glitterbeard at 1:45s. You can see them sitting right beside the island again at 6:55 when setting up the second attempt.
@d3adst1ck that ship came up when they were in the rough seas, not right in the island calm area.
In the end it doesn't matter for this topic, if the pops are taking longer for defending near islands then that is something they should fix, not pile rewards on something broken, file a bug report.
You all can have the last word.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@ardyason said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@foambreaker
I think you do not see the problem in reality.
Defending as it is now will not allow you to level up your allegiance and this is because of one thing. The game prioritize Invader vs Invader battle. Defender seems to be at the bottom of the queue line every time.
Once again, you can sail for 4 hours (I did it multiple times) and never get invaded yet you get less than 10 sec of waiting time (solo sloop in EU for me) if you dive.
That is the problem with defending, you actually never defend because you never get attacked by an invader.Yes it will, if you sail into open water and wait you will get a pop in a few minutes, what you are doing it causing the wait.
Try it.
I am afraid you are mistaken, there is nothing that stops any player from being invaded once the hourglass is activated. Only the war map for diving will not work until a ship is in open waters. A player with the hourglass active, next to a dock, an island or any piece of land can be invaded. Not being on open waters is not required to be invaded. It never was, it is only necessary for diving and going into the offensive.
@d3adst1ck said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
I'm thinking that the inconsistency of defending is more likely due to server capacity rather than where you are positioned. If the matchmaking doesn't use the 6th ship slot as a temporary, there is no room to add an invading ship if the server is full. One of the ships would need to dive away or quit in order to open up a new slot for an invader first.
Defending should be top priority match for an invader if it isn't already. Defending bonus also needs to be increased substantially for win or loss, based on the amount of hoarded treasure since you are taking increased risk over just diving and the additional time required.
That's a very good point and I never thought of that... jeese why did they put in defending as a feature when they're own limitations prevent it!?
@dragotech123 It doesn't really matter, going back to the topic, it is not a reason to buff rewards.
@foambreaker said in Hourglass Fix: Make Defending Worthwhile:
@dragotech123 It doesn't really matter, going back to the topic, it is not a reason to buff rewards.
I disagree, I think it is important since it can be used to avoid a PvP battle or not and the system can be exploited if that were the case. Also, I think rewards should be buffed.
@dragotech123 that's right. It COULD be exploited if the system could be cheesed by avoiding invaders by staying near islands.
But that isn't how it works lol
Defence definitely needs some love. No-one is doing it, and rightfully so. It's inefficient and unbalanced.
Hopefully RARE have the analytics and are adjusting things behind the scenes because making defence a more viable method of leveling will drastically help keep the mode alive by ensuring there are good numbers of players diving AND playing defence
@paparug420 I totally agree. Just think about it logically. You get the same ammount of allegiance by losing. If you lost by loss farming you get a tiny bit; if you lost by diving, giving a good fight but still sinking you get the same tiny bit; if you stack loot and reach grade V, you get invaded and still sink you get the same tiny bit. It doesn't care about anything that players do when they lose. If they lost, they lost and will always be the same ammount of xp. Not everyone is confident enough to win PvP, we know that we may sink and lose. Some of us are still in the process of learning PvP so we don't expect to be victorious every single time. So when the outcome is the same, the exact same ammount allegiance regardless of what happens, it's obvious that players will not choose an option that wastes more time for the same result.
Why stack loot if you are unable to defend it? You would get the same ammount of allegiance as diving and losing normally. Defending is not worth it and it only consumes more time for the same outcome.
It is exactly the same reason why loss farming exist, or why champion battles against larger crews are not worth it. Loss farming is faster than trying and still losing. Champion battles against larger crews give the same ammount as battles against the same crew size, the difference is just a larger difficulty, but the gain is the same.
Players are looking for the most efficient way to do things, is what we do as humans, we look for things to be faster and waste less resources when we are doing a repetitive task. If all these activities give the same result we would obviously look for the path that consumes less resources (time is also a resource).
If defending is not worth at all then a great portion of the season's content is ignored. Winning a defending battle only gives a small boost. In the same ammount of time a player could be spending stacking loot they could have be diving and going for streaks and would get a larger boost in allegiance.
Right now the most optimal way to get allegiance is to dive and go for streaks (if the player can win consistenly) or start farming losses (if they can't win consistenly).
Completing Glitterbeard is EASY with this TRICK | Sea of Thieves
56 out of 61
