One hour of the same Hourglass match

@theonetruederp Agreed - a timer would solve the problem.

I've been getting so many matches like this lately. One match ended because a Brigantine decided to join in the fight, while the opponent I was supposed to be fighting kept running.

It's apparently the current meta to just "hit and run" and hope the other opponents just quit in frustration.

I acctually love battles like that, they really brake the 'meta' and the most creative and 'thinking out of the box' crew wins, the problem is that the XP gained makes you frown, especially for the one loosing such battle. I still feel sorry for the crew we battled for 2.5h+ before the update hit where you get nothing for sailing out of bounds (accidentally)

If you’re fighting and dancing around each other for an hour, the problem isn’t Rare and their mode, it’s the players not being aggressive enough to sink the other ship. You have to get creative, position the ship smartly to force a nose dive from the other side, bring curse cannonballs for insta anchor drops etc. Short fights are won by being skilled and creative and predicting what your opponent is going to do next, not just cannon from a distance while sailing parallel whilst a square apart on the map.

both crews (2 per Sloop) could only resort to boarding to try and swipe their supplies.

Or ram into each other and there was known supplies that float in the water you could of grabbed.

Seriously tho. People wanted a pvp fight and a lot of these pvp players would chase players for hours! Just to sink and let the loot sit

But hourglass pvp..once the fight reaches past 30min it too long.

Just get hunted/defend and sit by an island or have a secret rowboat with extra supplies and watch how much faster the matches end

I agree. Matchmaking is great in many ways, but it does tend to increase the duration of each fight. Since the last update, I didn't get many fights that were below 20 min. It gets grindy and annoying quiet fast. Even winning does not seems to be worth my time this much. I am not sure what the best solution would be. Arena was better with this respect because after 15 min. the match was over and whoever had the most points won.

@x-revolver-81-x a dit dans One hour of the same Hourglass match :

@theonetruederp Agreed - a timer would solve the problem.

What if some people ENJOY hour-long fights ? Some people do it for fun, not for the rewards (Those are the ones that WILL pop up to tell you you're playing it wrong if you just want to level up)

The system is fine. The players are the issue. The "never giving up" mentality.

And again, it's tied to rewards. No wonder people won't give up, seeing the ridiculous amount of rep they'll get if they lose.

Increase allegiance rewards. Again. After 15 minutes it becomes more WORTH to crash into a rock and sink rather than sweat for another hour. And people who do it for fun just continue. Problem fixed.

Seems like preaching in the desert but then again, I'll say it :

Rewarding more allegiance for losses would solve pretty much all the issues this mode has.

@theonetruederp said in One hour of the same Hourglass match:

Seriously. One whole hour of my sloop and the enemy sloop basically slap-fighting. Neither was willing to concede, we both ran out of cannonballs and both crews (2 per Sloop) could only resort to boarding to try and swipe their supplies. This is well past the point of idiocy. RARE has made a mode WORSE than Arena.

Venting aside, after that nightmare I'm convinced the Hourglass needs a hard time limit. 20-30 minutes seems fine, just like Arena. Gives crews enough time to fight proper but the battle won't last until the heat death of the universe when both teams are relatively evenly matched. If neither ship can best the other, at the 5 minute mark their hourglasses start pulsing to signal the fight nearing its end. When the time is up, both ships explode. No one wins and a draw is declared. Both sides get Loser Allegiance in the event of a Draw and both get pushed to other servers.

Now flame me with "battle of attrition" banter.

Edit: I should have mentioned that the only reason the fight ended was because my crew mate and I realized we had been at the fight for well over an hour and just let our boat sink to get the damn match over with.

I had a match like this just the other day. Both of us were out of supplies after fighting for over an hour. We turned to the ram strat. At one point I saw my opponent swim up and try to bail water into my ship. We were both laughing about it. We ended up rolling a D20.

@lordqulex I could see this being a more kind method of approach with a time limit. But I really think something needs to be changed to prevent these extremely long battles from happening. Its one thing to fight for that long in Adventure over a hoard of treasure, but with the Arena XP being completely static it just doesn't justify the long as hell time.

You could OoB and take your loser rep and get on with your day...

Honestly this is why I'm against ship sinking giving rep. If it's going to be 1v1, then rep should be given based on the amount of hits on a ship, that way people will need to fight to gain that rep.

@red0demon0 said in One hour of the same Hourglass match:

Honestly this is why I'm against ship sinking giving rep. If it's going to be 1v1, then rep should be given based on the amount of hits on a ship, that way people will need to fight to gain that rep.

Now I could get behind this...except I'm a bad shot. Effort should be rewarded and it's not.

It would be easy to have both crew merge into a specific instance made for pvp and have a timer and arena style rules to determine the winner if no one has sink after 15 min.

The problem is that Rare has a firm position about having the pvp on-demand mode organic to adventure mode.

The slap fighting is on both of the crews. I don’t understand the full sails jousting matches, drive by shoot twice full rep, repeat. Just stay in the orbital and put some hurt on them. If about to sink peel out, but boom boom run gets OLD.

Here we go….. “MORE REP FIXES THIS” noooooooope! Doesn’t and won’t.

At the most more rep would maybe increase participation for a month… then, look above, “when I get my curses I’m out” people dip and it’s even more dead or worse. The rep is not the problem it’s the unwillingness to possibly lose.

Time limits for sure. Or as above “No rep for losses, however earning rep for actually engaging” I’m ALL FOR THIS! 100000000 times over!

@jj-h816 a dit dans One hour of the same Hourglass match :

At the most more rep would maybe increase participation for a month… then, look above, “when I get my curses I’m out” people dip and it’s even more dead or worse.

Do you want to encounter people willing to fight or dice rollers/loss farmers/runners ? As soon as these people get their curse, they're out. Leaving only people like you who are here for the fun of a good fight. Don't you want this ?

Yes you want this. But you prefer those people not having the curse rather than your own enjoyment.

The rep is not the problem it’s the unwillingness to possibly lose.

Question : Where does this "unwillingness to possibly lose" ? Hint : reputation.

Time limits for sure.

Would it solve the issue ? No.

Or as above “No rep for losses, however earning rep for actually engaging” I’m ALL FOR THIS! 100000000 times over!

You makes no sense. That, what you suggest, means more rep for losing too.

@jolly-ol-yep no it means rep for engagement not losing. It’s been said over and over more rep for losing will no discourage loss farming! Also if you are just here for the curse, most people, how does increasing rep for losing keep them engaged after they have it? Again Nothing! So stop chanting more rep for losing keeps people around, more rep for losing stops loss farming!

@jj-h816 a dit dans One hour of the same Hourglass match :

@jolly-ol-yep no it means rep for engagement not losing.

But then engagement lead to winning or losing so.... Ok I might have read "engagement" as "participation" here. I guess you were suggesting counting the use of supplies and actions.... People said this would turn HG into Arena when people "traded" kills. We proposed to count what the other crew used. No updates.

It’s been said over and over more rep for losing will no discourage loss farming!

Saying something doesn't make it true. Ask US former president.

And didn't we agree loss farmers are a strawman ? It's like 5% of solo sloopers. It's a non-issue. As @LordQulex said, the issue is that they put the curses behind PvP. What are people who hate PvP but want the curses gonna do ? Loss farm. Tweak the system however you want these guys are gonna continue farming losses. Anyway, they're gonna be matched vs each other now...

Also if you are just here for the curse, most people, how does increasing rep for losing keep them engaged after they have it?

These people DON'T want to stay engaged after they have the curse. You're not gonna turn them into sweaty PvPers if Sea of Thieves is their Sunday chill game...

Again Nothing! So stop chanting more rep for losing keeps people around,

It does, I personally have been fed up and haven't played for a week (not only HG, SoT as a whole). After years into this game I'm considering leaving. Not become the game isn't fun, but because the company abuses our time and peace of mind. I'm not PLAYING to ffeel like I'm WORKING.

@jolly-ol-yep if you don’t like the particular grind then don’t do it. It’s amazing that people that want the curse act like Rare is twisting their arms and making them do it. You don’t have to participate, you are choosing to do so. Loss farming is not a strawman it simply isn’t. It exists and won’t change regardless of the amount of rep rewarded. I don’t care if people are pvp sweats, I’m not a pvp sweat. Yes people will abuse engagement tactics as well and as such loss rewards shouldn’t be a large amount.

I have said this and I’ll say it again the new loss farm meta is raising sails and giving away the win, but wanting to be invited to the other ship so that you get the win rep as well. So please tell me how giving 10x the rep will not encourage this behavior and other loss farming. Socialism doesn’t work homie

@jj-h816 a dit dans One hour of the same Hourglass match :

@jolly-ol-yep if you don’t like the particular grind then don’t do it. It’s amazing that people that want the curse act like Rare is twisting their arms and making them do it. You don’t have to participate, you are choosing to do so.

"Hey guys ! New update for you after empty s6 and buggy s7 ! Awesome new environments under Reaper's, cool new curses and cosmetics. Too bad this is reserved ONLY for the top-tier players and streamers. What we're after is a "Shrouded Ghost" effect where it takes literally years for people to get anything so that they continue play our game. I bet this update isn't for you, don't you dare bother participate in it, you'll burn yourself, this is too hot".

Great argument. Rare communication is ALL about inclusivity and accessibility. They are the BEST when it comes to think of new accessibility options so that EVERYONE can participate. There was even a thread about how they should probably at least mention PvP in their trailers...

Yet they come up with the most brutal, elitist, exclusive grind I've seen in 20 years of video game history.

Point is : you don't tell people "don't participate it's not for you" when ALL your communication is about how EVERYONE can enjoy this game.

Loss farming is not a strawman it simply isn’t. It exists and won’t change regardless of the amount of rep rewarded.

Let's agree it won't lower NOR RAISE the amount of loss farmers then, I'm tired to give them so much importance.

I don’t care if people are pvp sweats, I’m not a pvp sweat. Yes people will abuse engagement tactics as well and as such loss rewards shouldn’t be a large amount.

See it the other way round. Everyone gets the same allegiance, whether it's a win or a loss.
The winner gets :

• streak bonus (let's increase this ? This can be the "incentive to win" maybe. What about the "champion" system noone uses cos' it's too "risky" ? Prevent aversion to losses and people will become champions more.)
• possible flags
• opponent's supplies
• can dive immediately
• hourglass value ++ (again maybe buff this instead of nerfing elsewhere)
  While the loser :
• has to resupply
• loses hourglass value
• loses streak (key concept here. It's incompatibble with an ELO system so "reasonable" players are not encouraged to do them. Make streak the main way to progress, but by buffing rep gained from streaks, not by nerfing rep for losers)
• loses time

Now imagine it has been presented like this right from the start. Would have people complained that losers and winners get the same rep in the first place ? I'd say no.

I have said this and I’ll say it again the new loss farm meta is raising sails and giving away the win, but wanting to be invited to the other ship so that you get the win rep as well.

Really ? Is it even possible ?

Well why not.... Still a clear sign that this is more FUN to these people than actually playing, which is saying something. I won't blame them, I blame the game.

So please tell me how giving 10x the rep will not encourage this behavior and other loss farming.

who said 10x ? And yeah we've been discussing precisely this for the last 2 and a half months, that's lucky. All I said is still out there, not gonna repeat myself.

Socialism doesn’t work homie

Lol.

Has it ever been really tried anywhere or is it just a name people use to qualify dictatorhips regimes to discredit it ?

And sure, the opposite - capitalism - is working perfectly fine and has led everyone to be happier in a healthier and healthier environment.

But again, and as pointed out above, I'm not sure how all this relates to our pirate video game conversation.

Pirates were more anarchists anyway. What if I wanted to give my curse to a noob ? That's something I'd very much like to do, just to annoy some sweaty people.
Can't we imagine I lied to Ramsey everytime I sold him a flag or lowered my HG ? Giving the credit to a random pirate ? Let me do this, Rare ! Why can't I give my rare jacket/hat/whatever that I won't use to a fellow pirate ?

See the flaws in bringing in politics to game design ? Some tried. Remember Monopoly was made to denounce the absurdities of capitalism ?

@theonetruederp Better solution instead of making both crews lose imo would be to make both ships start taking damage as if they were in the red sea after 24 minutes (a full ingame day). Then it becomes a battle of who can bucket and repair longer and the pressure adds up until someone slips.

@theonetruederp we need a closing circle battle of attrition is not a fun game mechanic. The winner of the fight being the person willing to waste the most time is not a good mechanic.

@pithyrumble said in One hour of the same Hourglass match:

@red0demon0 said in One hour of the same Hourglass match:

Honestly this is why I'm against ship sinking giving rep. If it's going to be 1v1, then rep should be given based on the amount of hits on a ship, that way people will need to fight to gain that rep.

Now I could get behind this...except I'm a bad shot. Effort should be rewarded and it's not.

Well in that case, maybe we can do a little bit of both, slight rep gain for hitting a ship and more rep gain for sinking it. As it stand you can have people willing to run for hours on end, maybe that will be an incentive to get back in a fight.

@lafrules said in One hour of the same Hourglass match:

It would be easy to have both crew merge into a specific instance made for pvp and have a timer and arena style rules to determine the winner if no one has sink after 15 min.

The problem is that Rare has a firm position about having the pvp on-demand mode organic to adventure mode.

It's not very organic right now, it feels way too distinct of a mode. Rep gain and gameplay is strictly limited, restricted exclusively to itself. pve components, as it pertains to treasure, does not have much of an effect on the mode, and is limited to only the defending mechanic