Re-work Mermaids, please.

  • TLDR: From a Pver and a Pver stand point: Pvper and Pvers should not need a player present early warning system (mermaids). FYI I do not "tuck on ships" and if I did it would be to steal loot or sink the ship (not grief).

    I understand players stating that they need (I disagree with this opinion of need. For the record, also I pve mostly, but will take a fight from time to time) mermaids to warn them if someone else is an island or outpost. If the pvper just sunk your boat they should be aware that you may still be on the island already and don't need a mermaid telling them or where you are at (the mermaid looks right in the direction of the player, why ?? Why is this needed in a pirate game ?

    A simple rework of some of the features of the mermaid could be removed or added features to get those functions (ie. bribing or threatening the mermaids to get them to talk and tell you if they saw something, etc.).

    As it is now mermaids are supposed to be separate from the pirates and wild in their way and in that they would not actively aid in an attack on a player unless they are the evil ones and in this case they would attack any and all players equally and help none of them.

    Example Scenario: Players' ship is sunk while the player is questing, searching, or simply exploring an island. The players' that is attacking is busy looting the wreckage (floating loot), and can now rest easy knowing where the other player(s) are simply seeing if there is a mermaid around and on top of that they also know in exactly what direction they would need to go to track down and attack those player(s).

    The player(s) whose ship has been sunk now only have limited options. The element of surprise is gone because the mermaid killed that by simply being present and literally staring in the direction of the player(s) who lost the their boat (could we at least change this??) . Those player(s) can try to attack and advantaged constantly informed other player(s) on the other ship or simply take the mermaid to get another ship or wait for the other players to decide if they want to hunt them down easily.

    How is this good or fun for gameplay for the attacker or the attacked ?

    Why can't players be expected to watch and protect their own ship? I get that mermaids are a mechanic to help you back on your ship and to get back to another ship if yours is sunk preventing you from being stranded on an island, but honestly why any other use beyond this is necessary ??

    Pvper and Pvers should not need an early warning system (mermaids).

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  • Stealth boarding would simply be too easy without mermaids giving you away. You can't expect players to be on high alert looking for barely-visible swimmers at all times.

    However I do like the idea of being able to be on a big island without a mermaid giving you away. If you're far enough away from shore, a mermaid shouldn't spawn yet.
    I know the chances of the mermaid spawning where someone will see it are slim, but it opens the door wider to more interesting plays.

  • @scheneighnay yeah, though again we have rope ladders we can not draw up and wooden ships on water that don't groan or creak when people climb the ladders so...

    Thieves swimming under water to quietly approach should always be a concern when not under way and I would think they would not be in the habit of lighting torches or hehe flares....

    No and should be no substitute for watching ones own ship or ones own destination.

  • We can't draw the ladders up. It would be real nice if we could to stop people boarding this way and doing the ladder dancing.

    Got to have that smoke sign to ward of people hiding and tucking.

  • Mermaids best scouts for those who can't be bothered to do it themselves.

  • @sairdontis4317
    Drawing your ladder up? and you say other people are lazy for not wanting to keep an eye out for someone popping up for air for half a second in any direction?

  • @scheneighnay That is not what I said at all. Please read the post again. Thank you.

  • I can’t tell if your mad that your stealth was foiled by the mermaid that was worried you were too far from your ship

    Or that you can’t find a better tactic to board a ship while far or near your ship.

    Any case. Just change your fighting style. After all, SoT keeps changing everything anyways.
    Some good some bad but the mermaids are not the ones are fault and don’t need a change.

  • @burnbacon "Some good some bad but the mermaids are not the ones are fault and don’t need a change." There is no other npc or player who are responsible for assisting one crew or player to locate another artificially (not organically, as the player tracking them down) so who else would you fault besides the mermaid ? Also not angry just baffled why is allowed or a feature of the game that has pvp in it. And "don't need a change", opinion pure and simple same as mine and just both are valid and up to the developer to decide .

    And I am glad SoT developers are looking at the game and I hope they take another fresh look at mermaids and their purpose and possible unintended or after time decided that the feature could use a tweak here or there.

  • @sairdontis4317 It is there to alert the players there are people hiding or trying to board.

    For the very reason you are baffled by it, is the very reason it is there.

    Other than the canon reason that the Pirate Lord made a deal with the Merfolk to always help pirates that have fallen overboard.

  • @personalc0ffee Help pirates who have fallen overboard not pirates that are not overboard (ie. on ship (at least they relent on this one, but, not on land). I do not see how highlighting a pirate helps them at all especially if because of very again visible presence of the mermaid that everyone can see there is a very good chance that the pirate never makes it back to the ship alive and is killed trying to get to the flare carrying "helping" mermaid.

    "For the very reason you are baffled by it, is the very reason is there", please explain how this is so. This statement makes no sense and at the very least needs clarification, because I have given reasons and haven't listed all the scenarios where the mermaid in its current form advantages one set of players over others. And I hope that developers could consider this advantage again and maybe find a way to balance the advantage in some way.

    Only the developers in the end, get to decide if this advantage continues in its current form as they are looking to improve the player(s) experience and expand the game opportunities. I am simply asking that they take another look at the scope of the advantage, please.

  • @sairdontis4317 said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    @personalc0ffee Help pirates who have fallen overboard not pirates that are not overboard (ie. on ship (at least they relent on this one, but, not on land). I do not see how highlighting a pirate helps them at all especially if because of very again visible presence of the mermaid that everyone can see there is a very good chance that the pirate never makes it back to the ship alive and is killed trying to get to the flare carrying "helping" mermaid.

    "For the very reason you are baffled by it, is the very reason is there", please explain how this is so. This statement makes no sense and at the very least needs clarification, because I have given reasons and haven't listed all the scenarios where the mermaid in its current form advantages one set of players over others. And I hope that developers could consider this advantage again and maybe find a way to balance the advantage in some way.

    Only the developers in the end, get to decide if this advantage continues in its current form as they are looking to improve the player(s) experience and expand the game opportunities. I am simply asking that they take another look at the scope of the advantage, please.

    Put simply;

    The mermaids are there to give players away and to help them back to their boats. That is what they are for.

  • @personalc0ffee "The mermaids are there to give players away" Yep, this in a nutshell. Clear case of giving advantage to one party over another . That is precisely the issue that I would like the SoT developers to look at and balance out so there is no advantage to either party (the definition of balance) and allow both the opportunity for/at success . The mermaids getting players back to their ships so that they may continue fighting in that mode (ship to ship) is balanced. As of now land to ship battle is not and again that is what I would like to draw attention to and ask the developers to please consider taking another look at.

  • @sairdontis4317

    Tl,Dr: I want to control the merfolk so I can be sneaky.

    Get out. Merfolk are a foil. And worse a safety floatie. Ohhh I missedsoIgettotryagain
    Ohh there'ssomeonenearmyboat...

    You try to hide behind a wall of benefits, but your playstyle tells on you as much as the request.

    Tucker.

  • @sairdontis4317 said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    @personalc0ffee "The mermaids are there to give players away" Yep, this in a nutshell. Clear case of giving advantage to one party over another . That is precisely the issue that I would like the SoT developers to look at and balance out so there is no advantage to either party (the definition of balance) and allow both the opportunity for/at success . The mermaids getting players back to their ships so that they may continue fighting in that mode (ship to ship) is balanced. As of now land to ship battle is not and again that is what I would like to draw attention to and ask the developers to please consider taking another look at.

    They will most likely not.

    They are there for balancing and for spawning.

  • @CeeofDeez You raise some other good points about mermaids. I would love to see your ideas added to their function as they would help keep the teams balanced even before a ship gets sunk.

    @personalc0ffee It is the "most likely part" that causes the issue in this case.

    @PithyRumble I am sorry that is how you misread my post(s) . I don't hide on a ship I fight on a ship be it mine or theirs with the goal of killing the crew to protect my crew and ship from being sunk by their crew or sinking their ship which serves the same purpose. I am not trying to make "tucking" easier as the definition of that slang seems to indicate stowing away on a ship for the purpose of camping . That is not the issue raised on the OP at all . Tucking is not the focus at all as the mermaid doesn't appear while you are on a ship so in this case the term "tucker" doesn't even apply. The issue is the advantage given to the crew on the ship that already has a massive advantage over the crew on the land especially after their ship has sunk. The crew on the ship does not need another advantage.

    Looting is the most dangerous part of a fight (imo) as you need to leave your ship to gather up the loot or even to complete a quest (map, fort, etc) and this is part can be make safer by clearing out all the crew left on the land after their ship has sunk. Again the crew on the ship does not need another advantage over the crew with no ship . The crew with a ship has better fire power and better mobility in that they can sail away faster than swimmers and swim towards them. This is game is about fighting over loot all I am asking for is to keep this fight over the loot even with not outside (npc) scouts helping one team over the others.

  • @sairdontis4317
    Mermaids do appear when you're on another player's ship so long as it's away from yours.

    My crew has on multiple occasions ridden with other crews and hosted other players on our ships. Their mermaids do show up and follow the ship around.

  • @ceeofdeez a dit dans Re-work Mermaids, please. :

    It shouldn’t be faster to die to get back on your ship than it takes to find and use a mermaid.

    Thanks !

    I can't believe I didn't think of this.

    Now I have a secure way in HG battle to get back to my sloop spinning around my sinking prey without having a merm pop/depop and sink myself in the process of getting another one to spawn. Just carry 2 blunder...

  • @scheneighnay never really noticed this . Thank you! When I am on another crews ship I am usually fighting them unless we are alliancing.

  • @scheneighnay said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    @sairdontis4317
    Mermaids do appear when you're on another player's ship so long as it's away from yours.

    My crew has on multiple occasions ridden with other crews and hosted other players on our ships. Their mermaids do show up and follow the ship around.

    That's weird, I don't think they are actually supposed to do that. It was my personal understanding that when you're on a boat or rowboat, they don't spawn until you touch the water.

    Islands are an exception because it is used to show someone is there for balancing.

    That might be a bug.

  • @personalc0ffee "used to show someone is there" unnecessarily in my and many others opinions on both sides of the subject and issue of the feature in respect for it achieving balance (as to say it does the opposite and imbalances the interaction in favor of one side over the other)..

  • @sairdontis4317 said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    @personalc0ffee "used to show someone is there" unnecessarily in my and many others opinions on both sides of the subject and issue of the feature in respect for it achieving balance (as to say it does the opposite and imbalances the interaction in favor of one side over the other)..

    Sir, it is so you can not hide as easily.

    It is designed to balance sneaky and hiding gameplay. So you can't just be somewhere and players don't know you are there. If they see a mermaid, they know you're there SOMEWHERE. It is very general. It does not give away your exact location.

    Rare have confirmed this is their purpose.

    About the only changes it needs are spawning when you're trying to get back on the boat, at times it takes too long or spawns too far out.

    When it comes to giving away the enemy, it works perfectly.

  • @personalc0ffee "Rare have confirmed this is their purpose."

    Fine, however others and I are submitting out feedback that this purpose imbalances interactions and favors one side over the other. It is my and others hope that Rare reassesses this feature of mermaids.

  • Rare has done enough for the tucking play style and aggressive play styles. IMO, they have done too much and have tipped the game in too far an aggressive pvp oriented play style. The overall tone and hostility of the seas has changed.

    So if you're trying to convince me that you should be able to hide easier so you can troll the enemy or do w/e, then I'm going to be against that.

    I think people can hide too easily as it is, especially on islands.

  • @personalc0ffee said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    Rare has done enough for the tucking play style and aggressive play styles. IMO, they have done too much and have tipped the game in too far an aggressive pvp oriented play style. The overall tone and hostility of the seas has changed.

    So if you're trying to convince me that you should be able to hide easier so you can troll the enemy or do w/e, then I'm going to be against that.

    I think people can hide too easily as it is, especially on islands.

    Please, I have stated numerous times I do not "tuck" on a ship.

    If I am on an opponents ship I am fighting them on it or setting it on fire . I do NOT hide on an enemy ship as that would be incredibly boring to me as I enjoy action. If I board I am fighting my way up the ladder or getting there with a cannon if I still a ship to do this from. I do not think in my opinion that players should be allowed to be unobservant to the point of needing a mermaid scout helper doing their scouting for them.

    Mermaids are not supposed be taking sides after all .

    Again if I am on an opponent's ship it is to sink it outright not hide away on it like a coward (imo) and bore myself to death waiting for other pirate to come back aboard, borrrrrrring.

  • @sairdontis4317 said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    @personalc0ffee said in Re-work Mermaids, please.:

    Rare has done enough for the tucking play style and aggressive play styles. IMO, they have done too much and have tipped the game in too far an aggressive pvp oriented play style. The overall tone and hostility of the seas has changed.

    So if you're trying to convince me that you should be able to hide easier so you can troll the enemy or do w/e, then I'm going to be against that.

    I think people can hide too easily as it is, especially on islands.

    Please, I have stated numerous times I do not "tuck" on a ship.

    I never said you did. I listed two play styles that I feel have gotten too much lean towards.

    If I am on an opponents ship I am fighting them on it or setting it on fire . I do NOT hide on an enemy ship as that would be incredibly boring to me as I enjoy action. If I board I am fighting my way up the ladder or getting there with a cannon if I still a ship to do this from. I do not think in my opinion that players should be allowed to be unobservant to the point of needing a mermaid scout helper doing their scouting for them.

    It is DEFINITELY boring.

    Mermaids are not supposed be taking sides after all .

    The Pirate Lord specifically has an agreement with the Merfolk, so yes they take his side. Read or listen to Athena's Fortune the novel. He saved two Merfolk from some nasties in a cave and reunited them with their people with the help of Mercia. In return, the Merfolk agreed to help all those who have fallen overboard. At least, I think I have that right.

    Again if I am on an opponent's ship it is to sink it outright not hide away on it like a coward (imo) and bore myself to death waiting for other pirate to come back aboard, borrrrrrring.

    If I get on a boat, my intent is to disrupt the activity so it sinks.

  • @personalc0ffee Agreed. I appreciate the mermaids for help player playing on their ships while the float I just don't see the need to have them scout for me too as that is abusing their purpose and using them unjustly also it seems according to the pirate lords respect towards them . They (mermaids) are not our servants after all.

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