There is an obvious incentive to plunder another ships loot. I don't like it. I would never attack another ship unless I knew they wanted to battle and that they would also enjoy themselves. It seems like that in RAREs desire to increase PvP, they incentivized actual piracy (their words, not mine). But the only incentive to fight back against actual piracy is to keep what loot you already earned. Sometimes hard earned.
Before folks quote the name of the game, I would like to say the narrative of the game seems to be adventure, freedom, and getting loot you didn't take from other players. Even in the movies only the bad guys are actually seen pillaging, though I could be missing a tall tale or story in the game where wrongfully stealing is the in game directive.
Maybe I wouldn't dislike it so much if incentivized piracy didn't attract such toxic players. But either way, getting something for winning against the aggressor would nice. Or at least an easy way to say please leave my ship alone, like a colored flare than means just that and can be signaled very far away, would be a nice addition.
Incentive for repelling PvP attacks
@jrtad "There is an obvious incentive to plunder another ships loot. I don't like it."
That is the game you are playing, if you don't like it, then stop, but don't be selfish and try to spoil everyone else fun for your benefit.
@jrtad said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
There is an obvious incentive to plunder another ships loot. I don't like it. I would never attack another ship unless I knew they wanted to battle and that they would also enjoy themselves. It seems like that in RAREs desire to increase PvP, they incentivized actual piracy (their words, not mine). But the only incentive to fight back against actual piracy is to keep what loot you already earned. Sometimes hard earned.
Before folks quote the name of the game, I would like to say the narrative of the game seems to be adventure, freedom, and getting loot you didn't take from other players. Even in the movies only the bad guys are actually seen pillaging, though I could be missing a tall tale or story in the game where wrongfully stealing is the in game directive.
Maybe I wouldn't dislike it so much if incentivized piracy didn't attract such toxic players. But either way, getting something for winning against the aggressor would nice. Or at least an easy way to say please leave my ship alone, like a colored flare than means just that and can be signaled very far away, would be a nice addition.You realize that's the point of the game, right?
@jrtad people try to use white flags, white flares etc or alliance offers to signal their wish to avoid fighting. Some might respect it, others might be encouraged moreso to attack as being that passive usually advertises that you are relatively easy pickings. Ultimately everyone has a choice in how they interact with others. Try not to take pvp personally or assume toxicity though, there are some bad eggs out on the seas but there's plenty of chill people who just enjoy the thrill of the fight and will offer a gg regardless of outcome
@jrtad said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
But the only incentive to fight back against actual piracy is to keep what loot you already earned. Sometimes hard earned.
Self-defense. Survival. A basic human reaction.
For some reason, you've been falsely lead to believe this game is a PVE game, and not a PvPvE game. On top of that, pirates are usually the "enemy" character in most media, because their MO is stealing things. We might have Pirate Heroes like Jack Sparrow, but he's still being hunted down by the "law" as if he were a crook, because by law, he is one, regardless of his good deeds for the greater of humanity/pirate-kind.
Players will usually be "toxic" towards you when you fail to show good sportsmanship in a PvP scenario in a PvPvE game. That doesn't mean all pirates are looking for good sportsmanship, some are looking to conquer for their own fragile ego and such. Most you want to do is ignore them, unless they start saying slurs and genuinely offensive language, which should be recorded, and reported to SoT Support.
Defend yourself! You have weapons and cannons on your boat just like your enemy, you can use them to shoo them away, or sink them so they stay far away from where you are for a while.
Keeping what you earned should be all the incentive you need. For me, my incentive is fun, i dont care if i have no loot, or an entire gilded onboard, naval is my favorite part of the game! If i lose, at least i had fun, and the winners earned what i had since they did better than me, and if i win, i had fun AND keep my loot. (That being said, if you ever see the silver hound on the seas, feel free to come and fight!)
As for the narrative, its not about getting loot you didnt take from others, its about getting loot through any means, be it pve, or pvp. Loot is what drives the whole pvpve aspect, if there wasnt loot gathered from pve, there would be little reason to pvp and sink some one.
If you want a flag that asks people to leave you alone, that would be the white flag, but seeing as freedom to do as you please is part of the game, you can still be attacked.
Defend yourself! You have weapons and cannons on your boat just like your enemy, you can use them to shoo them away, or sink them so they stay far away from where you are for a while.
That is something a surprising number of people dont realize, and some who do worry about larger ships, not realizing that every ship has strengths and weaknesses that can put any size ship on the top of a battle! Many sloop crews say its unfair to fight a 4 man ship because they sat in their broad side rather than using their sharper turn radius, and flat out dont realize the sloop is the slowest ship to sink in the game.
While I get what you're saying I also understand the responses to this post. The lore of sea of thieves though does have two groups, one wanting to pirate and steal the loot from each other and one who wants to stick to adventure. (Hence pirate lord stories etc at least from what I've found so far)
In regards to incentive for repelling, I think it would be nice to have something more than the spoils of a sunken vessel as a reward if they shot first. Not sure what especially after HG.
Otherwise it is all about finding your ships strengths vs someone else. I was solo slooping tonight and actually turned around to find a brigg of 3 chasing me. Solo I really didn't stand much chance even if they sucked hard at PvP so I played to what I had.
Sailed with the wind to get them chasing really fast and then sharp turned around. Their crew was truly bad (not adjusting sails well to keep up) and as I passed by I managed a few good shots in their hull. By the time they got turned around I was sailing into the wind and put good distance between us. Since I kept sailing into the wind they had no hope of catching up and just gave up.
If you can learn your ships strengths vs another you can still do ok
I've always felt that ship speed should increase the more loot you have (maybe just a 10-25% increase)
This would prevent ships with NOTHING from being able to attack ships with a lot of loot as the ship with a lot of loot could easily outrun them.
It would also encourage hostile players to stack loot and therefore have something to lose if they choose to then hunt other players.
Personally loot has more value when I've had to fight for it, both as an attacker and defender.
Me and buddy were doing skele fleet out of boredom the other day on duo sloop. A gally came and attacked us, had to play somewhat defensive as they were getting consistent boards we had to repel. We managed to sink them in the end so selling that loot was much more satisfying than if we hadn't been bothered, and if they'd beaten us and gotten it, fair play to them.
Honestly half of the enjoyment of the game comes from your own mentality and how you choose to react.
You have zero control over how others choose to interact with you in the game. You can try to negotiate, fight, run,ally. But regardless of outcome I'd say your expectation is what will make you frustrated. If you choose not to pvp that is fine but assuming that makes it unfair for others to attack you, or projecting onto them it makes them bad people etc won't ever end well.
I don't mind a bit of roleplay, if I'm doing emissary and I see someone raise reaper I default to ok you're my enemy here but honestly it's never personal me attacking people win or lose its just the most unique and varied feature in the game.
So a lot of people seem to be not reading the OP, or cherry-picking sentences to fit their perspective.
OP is not asking for PVE servers. They are not asking for PvP to be removed. They are seeking to fix an inherent imbalance in the system which I actually agree with.
In a vacuum this is the situation that we have:
Ship A spends time doing a Gold Hoarders Vault or Skull Fort or something. Completes the voyage/event and collects the loot. This will take time (depending on the voyage and crew), but we'll say minimum a half hour.
Ship B logs on, buys some supplies, and heads out. They see Ship A on the horizon and sail off in pursuit, wanting to take Ship A's loot.
Ships A and B engage.
Now there are two outcomes possible.
1). Ship B sinks Ship A. This could take some time depending on crews, but we'll say 20 minutes. So Ship B gets all of the loot from Ship B while having spent less time overall. They now have all the loot and can sell it, along with any emissary flags dropped by Ship A. Ship A gets nothing.
2). Ship A sinks Ship B. Again, we'll say 20 minutes. Ship A gets to keep their loot and... that's all. Maybe an emissary flag from Ship B, and having spent additional time that they could have been selling loot and heading off on a new voyage/event.
So who has the most to lose in this situation? Ship A has now spent almost an hour of their time getting loot and fighting off Ship B. Ship B has spent 1/3 of that time and their only investment has been a few thousand gold for supplies (honestly not even really necessary if they spend like 5 minutes plundering the outpost and launching onto islands as they pass by).
All OP is asking for is some kind of reward for defending their loot, beyond just keeping it. Ship A has now done 2 events minimum, a voyage/world event/whatever to get the loot, and a second event to defend their loot. Ship B has only done one event, for less time. Ship A should get something additionally for defending their loot besides just getting to keep it. I don't know what that would be or how to do it. I don't know to accomplish it without opening the game up to exploits with Alliances or anything. But I feel like there can be some reward for defending your hard-earned loot besides just...keeping it.
@maximusarael020 said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
Ship B logs on, buys some supplies, and heads out. They see Ship A on the horizon and sail off in pursuit, wanting to take Ship A's loot.
How long does it take for Ship B to find Ship A with enough loot to bother going after? The way you've worded it here makes it sound like this is guaranteed to happen and in very little time spent aimlessly sailing around.
@d3adst1ck But that's kind of the point. It absolutely can happen that way. You can spawn in, see a ship on the horizon, bee-line for them, and engage. But more than "time", there's risk vs reward to consider. Basically one player, ship A, has put in all the risk. They have done the voyage or the world event, or multiple. They have spent time investing in the server. Ship B, however, has basically zero risk. When they attack Ship B, they basically are only risking supplies, which in the current environment are ridiculously easy to come buy, either through purchasing or just finding everywhere. So the risk vs reward for ship B is "small amount of time and resources" vs "Loot pile". The risk vs reward for Ship A is "lose all their loot" vs "keep their loot". Basically Ship B has the chance to improve their status with very little risk and Ship A really only has the chance to keep the status quo, with more time spent. I don't think it's asking anything extreme to have some kind of additional reward for defending your loot.
This problem became very apparent with portal-hopping Reapers (though they at least in general had to put in effort into getting to Grade 5). They could portal-hop to a new server, attack the first Emissary they saw, potentially sink it, and profit. In general all they were risking were supplies and their Grade 5 flag. But they had much less risk and much greater reward than normal emissaries. If we take emissaries and Reapers out of the equation, the risk vs reward of defending your loot vs you pirating someone else's loot is just imbalanced, especially when supplies are so plentiful and getting Reaper Grade 5 is fairly quick with how plentiful loot is these days.
@slickwillywonka I would argue that all people should have a level of respect for each others wishes to left alone, but you are right, in this world that's not generally going to happen. Especially in an environment with very little accountability of one's actions.
@foambreaker I don't claim to want to spoil everybody's fun. Maybe just those who want to ruin other peoples fun time in the game who are minding their own business and obviously don't want to fight. Also, Reapers don't seem to mind spoiling anyone's fun for their own benefit. So it seems to me, reapers tarnish more peoples experiences in the game than other players.
@captain-coel The point of the game is to steal from other players you say? Then why would they craft such interesting stories to just steal the rewards from each other. I would say Rare has made a dichotomy. The story as I have seen it, including in the glitterbeard journals, lends itself to respect one for another. Which would include respecting others wishes to left alone.
@hiradc You say not all are bad eggs, and not to take it personally. I agree with that. But I have met just one reaper who wasn't either rude, condescending, angry using foul language when he lost, or have an over inflated opinion of himself, or a combination of the said above or worse. Now, they can't hurt me, it's just a game. So, it's hard to take it too personally really. But I do believe this game would be more fun were there not such poor sportsmanship like what I have been seeing in the some of these folks.
@nex-stargaze No sir, I believe you have misinterpreted my original idea. It was more to level the rewards, than eliminate PvP. I enjoy PvP sometimes.
I have met one or two reapers who wasn't either rude, condescending, angry using foul language when he lost, or have an over inflated opinion of himself. Most of these interactions I think would be labeled as toxic. I really don't use that word myself, but I see it a lot, so maybe the shoe fits here. Perhaps I have been unlucky in this regard though.@goldsmen I am not sure I see it that way, but I do thank you for the invite. I do enjoy PvP, but I prefer not to lose what I spent time on, nor take what others have spent time on. I even left one reaper ships loot to float when they lost, but I think they left the game. Sadly, they seemed to have an overinflated ego, and probably quit out of embarrassment. I hope I am wrong because it was a fun match with nothing to be embarrassed about.
@burnbacon said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
would never attack another ship unless I knew they wanted to battle and that they would also enjoy themselves.
That your choice. Your pirate way.
But it won’t stop others.Except I don't think what I do would be considered piracy. I don't attack and rob ships at sea, or steal from people. When I just want to fight, and I was attacked first, I even leave the loot behind so the loser can hopefully recover something.
Playing such that the other crew enjoys themselves is key to my point here.@insane-weird-1 I agree with everything you say my friend, and am glad you are enjoying yourself. I too enjoy PvP, but I would still like more reward than just keeping what I worked for when I just want to play adventure.
I can't say the others guys enjoyed themselves tonight. One crew lost to mine, and seemed to just leave the game even though they were the aggressors. They talked big, and they may have been embarrassed. Too bad, they put up a mighty fight against much greater odds. While the others were cursing us when we got into a boarding tussle but escaped by the skin of our teeth and luck.@paparug420 said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
I've always felt that ship speed should increase the more loot you have (maybe just a 10-25% increase)
This would prevent ships with NOTHING from being able to attack ships with a lot of loot as the ship with a lot of loot could easily outrun them.
It would also encourage hostile players to stack loot and therefore have something to lose if they choose to then hunt other players.
Interesting idea my friend.@hiradc Reading arguments like this one you present does help my enjoyment in the game. Thank you.
"...projecting onto them it makes them bad people etc won't ever end well."
Though I may not ever want to judge people as good or bad because I am not qualified to judge another person, over inflated ego, cursing at my crew because we escaped, condescension towards my crew, and other such things I would call bad actions. Sadly, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception to my experiences with piracy.@maximusarael020 I thank for reading and carefully considering my argument. I don't say I couldn't be wrong in this, but I do appreciate your consideration.
I thank you all who responded. Even those who, just in my opinion, didn't seem to want to help still actually helped me to understand this all more. Thank you again.@d3adst1ck said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
@maximusarael020 said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
Ship B logs on, buys some supplies, and heads out. They see Ship A on the horizon and sail off in pursuit, wanting to take Ship A's loot.
How long does it take for Ship B to find Ship A with enough loot to bother going after? The way you've worded it here makes it sound like this is guaranteed to happen and in very little time spent aimlessly sailing around.
Even though I am not a fan of stealing from another, your point does have some merit in my mind. Kind of like cops and robbers, the dynamics there do add a certain value to the game. Conflict, resolution, victory... Maybe it would better if the vast majority of encounters didn't have such display of poor sportsmanship. Cursing upon losing, condescension...
@maximusarael020
Basically Ship B has the chance to improve their status with very little risk, and Ship A really only has the chance to keep the status quo, with more time spent. I don't think it's asking anything extreme to have some kind of additional reward for defending your loot.I do believe we agree on this. Though I do admit, I have no idea if Rare could effectively implement a fix for this if they even wanted too. They may like it just how it is.
I do see some merit in the struggle to keep your loot. My crew and I just play PvP sometimes for practice, with no loot on board (no risk). Though we always present a target first. We try very hard not to be the aggressors.@jrtad said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
@lordqulex I am not aware of anything to do with the hourglass. Would you mind explaining friend?
Sure!
When you raise the hourglass, you can continue to PVE as normal, but sign up for (what is hopefully repaired as of today) skill based match making PVP. You can be invaded by another ship at any time, and if you successfully defend your treasure you get rewarded with faction allegiance and gold. Faction allegiance will unlock cosmetics including the phantom and skeleton curse. There's your incentive for repelling!
@jrtad said in Incentive for repelling PvP attacks:
@captain-coel The point of the game is to steal from other players you say? Then why would they craft such interesting stories to just steal the rewards from each other. I would say Rare has made a dichotomy. The story as I have seen it, including in the glitterbeard journals, lends itself to respect one for another. Which would include respecting others wishes to left alone.
They created ways for loot to be generated for pirates to fight over. Respect here is about treating other pirates fairly. Stealing from eachother is a core concept in Sea of Thieves. You consented to pvp the moment you logged on.
