Has the weapon quick switching been acknowledged by Rare as a problem? Pretty upsetting to board someone's ship in PvP to be immediately blunderbuss/sniped in a split second.
Thanks,
Weapon quick switching
I wouldn't consider it a problem because it's skill based
people that have the skill are consistent with it and people that don't, aren't
it's like camping a boat, people are pulling that off because of skill and/or numbers, same thing here, if people are pulling it off it's because they are consistent performers
The outcome won't change in nearly all of the scenarios. They aren't doing it because it's the only way they will win, they are doing it for style point attempts for their social circles, a good shot is a good shot.
This of course doesn't include people that use macros, which would be a violation of the rules, but macros also don't necessarily mean hitting targets.
@wolfmanbush
Campers have the advantage of hoarding food whenever they get a kill, compared to the player getting camped that have no way of getting food during combat, unless they spawn close to the food barrel upon respawn.Also campers get advantage of positioning themselves better + knowing spawn spots. One common suggestion was having a shield/godmode for people respawning for like 1-3 seconds where it enables them to position themselves better upon spawning back in. But as buggy as this game is, I won't be surprised if actual bugs involving inconvincibility crop up.
On to the double gunning, im 100% certain they are aware of it being a mechanic, it's been there for ages now. and as WolfMan stated, it still takes a bit of skill. Also quick switching introduces more bugs then normal switching, such as the ADS bug which have different variations of it (Zoomed out where you can't shoot for a few seconds when switching to say your pistol/ sniper where it looks like you have FoV, quick switching then reloading your Eye of reach full animation sometimes bugs the gun out where you have to reload it again (Twice) etc.)
''Has the weapon quick switching been acknowledged by Rare as a problem?''
Don't think they see it as a ''problem'' to be honest.
I see it as just another detail in close quarter combat to get better in. Really fun, and the best sloop fights I had where against quick switching/swapping double gunners, keeps you on your toes.@pixel-the-hero said in Weapon quick switching:
The part I was referring to is exactly what a few of you have mentioned. The fact that the animation can be skipped, which isn't as intended, then it's an exploit, right? Like the bucket and shovel used to be. People could scuttle a ship and bucket cancel fast enough to keep it from sinking.
They nerfed the double gun, if you were around a few years ago. That was the equiv of double tap speed-bucketing. Now the DG is similar to the speed bucket now, it's not unlike doing two sprint bucket-cancels with a switch in between
@pixel-the-hero said in Weapon quick switching:
The part I was referring to is exactly what a few of you have mentioned. The fact that the animation can be skipped, which isn't as intended, then it's an exploit, right? Like the bucket and shovel used to be. People could scuttle a ship and bucket cancel fast enough to keep it from sinking.
That part is intended. When exiting a sprint, you’re supposed to be able to go into aiming in without a wielding animation. This was added in to patch notes a few years ago shortly after the wield animations were introduced. This in 2019 had reintroduced very fast double shots. They counted this by adding a coded delay that won’t let you shoot two bullets in under 1 second. It is not possible to fire two shots faster than this delay. Wether or not the coded delay should be increased, I don’t know.
@illbushido305 said in Weapon quick switching:
@pixel-the-hero said in Weapon quick switching:
The part I was referring to is exactly what a few of you have mentioned. The fact that the animation can be skipped, which isn't as intended, then it's an exploit, right? Like the bucket and shovel used to be. People could scuttle a ship and bucket cancel fast enough to keep it from sinking.
That part is intended. When exiting a sprint, you’re supposed to be able to go into aiming in without a wielding animation. This was added in to patch notes a few years ago shortly after the wield animations were introduced. This in 2019 had reintroduced very fast double shots. They counted this by adding a coded delay that won’t let you shoot two bullets in under 1 second. It is not possible to fire two shots faster than this delay. Wether or not the coded delay should be increased, I don’t know.
Not to be too ticky-tacky, but you can definitely shoot two shots in under 1 second. It's like 1/2 second for me :o
@wolfmanbush "I wouldn't consider it a problem because it's skill based"
...and mouse based, you can't do it on controller. Of course when it comes to controller versus mouse that is just the tip of the iceberg.
@foambreaker said in Weapon quick switching:
@wolfmanbush "I wouldn't consider it a problem because it's skill based"
...and mouse based, you can't do it on controller. Of course when it comes to controller versus mouse that is just the tip of the iceberg.
A few streamers I watch play on controller and they seem to do it without an issue
they are better at it than I am on mouse lol
@unleet1 said in Weapon quick switching:
@illbushido305 said in Weapon quick switching:
@pixel-the-hero said in Weapon quick switching:
The part I was referring to is exactly what a few of you have mentioned. The fact that the animation can be skipped, which isn't as intended, then it's an exploit, right? Like the bucket and shovel used to be. People could scuttle a ship and bucket cancel fast enough to keep it from sinking.
That part is intended. When exiting a sprint, you’re supposed to be able to go into aiming in without a wielding animation. This was added in to patch notes a few years ago shortly after the wield animations were introduced. This in 2019 had reintroduced very fast double shots. They counted this by adding a coded delay that won’t let you shoot two bullets in under 1 second. It is not possible to fire two shots faster than this delay. Wether or not the coded delay should be increased, I don’t know.
Not to be too ticky-tacky, but you can definitely shoot two shots in under 1 second. It's like 1/2 second for me :o
If you can do it record it and show me. It is not possible to shoot faster than the hard coded delay. You could sprint cancel and shoot faster than one second around 2019 but not anymore. It’s very noticeable when comparing 2019 clips and trying it now.
@illbushido305 said in Weapon quick switching:
@foambreaker you can do it on controller.
...as long as the target stands still...
@foambreaker yeah no lol. I play on controller and have been doing it fine for years. You can be good controller player.
@illbushido305 The difference in mechanics between a mouse and a controller/keyboard arrows is such that it is impossible to move the controller as fast as even the average human can point and click. That has been known for decades. It is not an accident that computers use mice and touchpads instead of joysticks. Google clickers versus turners in games. Turners are fodder, accepted fact.
Double gunning with sprint canceling is a complicated topic imo. If you are fighting a competitive crew you want your sniper for when you loose angle, get pressured off cannons or are on a high wave and the blunder for ladder guarding. So you are (again in my opinion) putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using sniper/blunder. Many pirates overestimate how good double gunning actually is in boarding situations. It usually takes two hits to kill one pirat and after that you are defenceless for three seconds if you reload only one gun or six if you reload both. The top pvp pirates use blunder/sniper for its versatility not necessarily for the quick time to kill. When less skilled crews get whiped they tend to blame double gunning when in fact they were just outmatched. Also, what people discribe as a "split second" is more like 1 to 2 seconds in reality. Over all I think people make a way bigger deal out of it than it actually is.
But! To say it politely the weapon swap animations aren't optimal. If you swap weapons the "normal" way you can't shoot for what feels like an eternity even after the swap animation and the sound cue have finished. Sprint canceling "fixes" that, but feels super awkward until you practiced enough for it to become muscle memory. I see why people don't want to learn a video game skill that doesn't feel good for the first hours you use it.
The only solution that wouldn't make huge portions of the playerbase mad, would be a complete rework of the swap animations and I don't think that's where rare shoud spend it's limited resources.@rhod3nklotz said in Weapon quick switching:
Double gunning with sprint canceling is a complicated topic imo. If you are fighting a competitive crew you want your sniper for when you loose angle, get pressured off cannons or are on a high wave and the blunder for ladder guarding. So you are (again in my opinion) putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using sniper/blunder. Many pirates overestimate how good double gunning actually is in boarding situations. It usually takes two hits to kill one pirat and after that you are defenceless for three seconds if you reload only one gun or six if you reload both. The top pvp pirates use blunder/sniper for its versatility not necessarily for the quick time to kill. When less skilled crews get whiped they tend to blame double gunning when in fact they were just outmatched. Also, what people discribe as a "split second" is more like 1 to 2 seconds in reality. Over all I think people make a way bigger deal out of it than it actually is.
Bingo. It's so often a skill match issue, rather than an exploit issue. I almost exclusively double gun but rarely take advantage of the quick swap because the shot changes too often. That doesn't mean people don't think I don't quick swap them. The deadliness of dg comes from accurate shots rather than swapping quickly.
@rhod3nklotz The problem i have with people saying that animation cancelling is a "Skill" based thing, that can be said about Ladder Launches, DPI switching, and other things that are considered exploits. Rare patched out the animation cancelling when it came to digging up chests, and bucketing the ship.
I think the main reason they still haven't removed the quick weapon swap thing is because it would change the fluidity of sprinting, so there isn't an easy fix. It is still technically an exploit and I am pretty positive a LOT of people are using Macros to accomplish it so consistently... not saying that a lot are doing it with actual button presses, but with there seemingly being a noticeable rise of cheaters doing predictive cannon shots, ESP, Aim-bots, and cosmetic unlocks Macros seem to be the least of the concerns.
@reverend-toast said in Weapon quick switching:
@foambreaker Which is why there is aim assist when using a controller.
Not in this game.
@reverend-toast I mean what is an exploit? Unintendet "exploits" becoming a staple mechanic isn't uncommon and happening since videogames were invented. Bunnyhopping and rocket jumping in the early days of fps games weren't intendet by the developers. Those things became absolutally necessary to play at higher levels of pvp. Compared to that quick swapping is inconsequential, since it only gives the tinyest of advantage. A lot of thing a harder to do and more important to win. Hitting cannons for example.
Also I'm certain that people who quick swap don't need a macro for that. I have been quick swapping for exactly 3 weeks now and I have it pretty much down 100%. I know because I recorded myself trying it for the first time.
That said at the end of the day it makes the game less accessible. At least if you want to play at higher levels of pvp. IDK I wouldn't be mad I rare would rework the swap animations and remove quick swapping.As for cheaters. I have been playing on Eu-West and never encoutered people were I was sure they were cheating and something suspicious maybe every 1 out of 100 matches. But again, I'm not opposed to an anti cheat.
Some exploits in SoT did becomes staples: most noticeably was adding free hide emotes.
Some people figured out that if your head was obscured by geometry your gamertag would disappear when using the sleep emote, so tucking became a thing. And instead of making a fix, Rare embraced it by adding free hide emotes so anyone could do it without the need for understanding how the rules could be broken.
The ladder launch is a HUGE exploit that needs to be patched... because it is a mechanic that isn't intended. Same with the quick weapon swap. If weapons were meant to be swapped that quickly, then why can't they just do it inherently instead of the Street Fighter combo of Swap, Sprint, Aim, Fire?
As for cheaters... I can tell when someone is just better at the game... but when a kid who was in our Discord group started sharing his screen and we saw all the text and boxes from some ESP overlay... after he had been boasting about all the FOTD steals he and his crew have been getting... then a member of his crew sharing a video of getting a 360 Sniper spin, on someone underwater fighting the Kraken, we started realizing that cheating is more widespread than we thought... and even one of your usual crew-mates could be using them without your knowledge.
NOTE: The kids discord account ended up getting compromised... not sure if it was from the SOT Hacks he bought though.
@wolfmanbush They purposely removed it a while ago, but didn't account for people who sprint-cancel, and they haven't acknowledged it since. They need to reassess, the meta is nothing but double guns, and the skill ceiling - although low and easy to do if you figure it out / can aim - is far too effective compared to using anything else.
@rhod3nklotz said in Weapon quick switching:
The only solution that wouldn't make huge portions of the playerbase mad, would be a complete rework of the swap animations and I don't think that's where rare should spend it's limited resources.
The swap animation does NOT need to be reworked. All they have to do is fix the issue when an action is canceled the effect is the ACTION IS CANCELLED... Not immediately completed with full effect. If the user cancels the swap animation intentionally or because they need to start sprinting... When they wield a weapon they should still be holding the original gun until they can perform the swap without interruption. If you cancel eating a Pineapple... You don't get instant health... Anything less is just poor design or a software edge case that the devs are unable to prioritize as core features which are the focus of their marketing efforts for each update/event is where they spend their time. Yes, PVP can happen as one of the possible choices players can opt for with the forced engagements of the various events that made up the Adventure timeline... BUT PVP as the primary encouraged engagement was never pressed with the sole exceptions of what we saw in Arena and now S8....
Justifying sprint canceling as a reasonable skill gap is utterly laughable. Yes, it will get exploited by the try-hards and seal clubbers as long as it remains. Software is hard... So these things exist... it doesn't mean it should be celebrated as the expected mechanic the target audience of the game should be expected to know to not be wrecked on their first spawn into Adventure. Heaven forbid we forget this is a game that includes a DESIGNED combat mechanic to barf into a bucket and toss at the opponent..... So much so the players are incentivized to use those mechanics via achievements and periodic challenges and seasonal trials.
The DEVS should be given credit for keeping their game as true to their design methodology as possible and yet trying to serve their diverse (and likely surprising) populations. They should be credited for the design of S8 to maintain the integrity of the discovery of the adventure sandbox yet let those motivated for PVP/TDM etc to self-segregate into their corner of the world as much as possible. However no matter how well designed any feature is... Critical defects ruin the implementation. As well designed S8 is... it's failing because the core mechanism of SBMM and 50-50 win rate targets have failed. A ship of brand new pirates who dive get matched with the champion on a double-digit steak that only serves to feed the seal clubbers, and now those crews don't even need to restock between battles. Prior to S8, Janky and unpolished combat mechanics were and continue to be contributing factors to why previous PVP forced interactions ultimately lost the interest of the majority of the casual player base weeks after launch. Sadly without rapid corrections, we likely will see the hourglass use wane once the completionist who will grind even if they lose thier way to 100/1000 or whatever they can tollerate is reached... And we have Arena like lobbies and wait times once again.
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