Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.

  • @grog-minto

    (I know, right? Look behind you, a three headed monkey!)

    @triheadedmonkey

    I absolutely agree, these should absolutely be long term goals and rewards. But I believe there is a large part of the community that doesn't feel like they are long term goals, but in fact a sisyphusean display of futility.

    That's not evening considering the PVE community whom I am passionately advocating for that as far as I'm concerned deserve these curses as much as any pirate on the seas. I think putting these curses behind PVP content was either a severe oversight, or a complete a total disregard for a large swathe of the community who loves and supports you. Just my opinion I guess. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

  • For the record, I am generally the person to avoid a fight if I can.

    A heart condition tends to make any unexpected PvP a bit of a bother šŸ˜‚.

    The On-demand part of it though I don't mind as I know what I am getting into.

    Sea of Thieves has always been about, "what is that ship doing....friend or foe?" and that is part of the reason I started playing it.

    Knowing that you are going into a fight, win or lose, you can still earn progress towards the goal, makes it a lot easier.

    Don't focus on the grind, just play how you want and enjoy! Otherwise it is no longer a game and it becomes work!

  • @triheadedmonkey What about going in fight knowing you are getting sailed out of bounds earning no progresion but wasted time? That's the mindset I am going in pvp. The progression is so messy that even the 2000 losses curse is not guaranteed when half the losses don't count as losses. It got to the point I just turn the game off the second of being boarded by player who doesn't use naval at all.

    PvE grind can be considered work.
    PvP grind, especially in its current version, is a labor camp for PvE players, casuals who like variety, and players for various reasons bad in pvp.

    One of the main issues with SoT has always been that devs underestimate how much negative experience PvP is. Season 8 progression, instead of making the situation less painful, makes it much worse by requiring unhealthy amount of PvP that scales radically with skill (or lack of).

  • @arch-ideall said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    One of the main issues with SoT has always been that devs underestimate how much negative experience PvP is. Season 8 progression, instead of making the situation less painful, makes it much worse by requiring unhealthy amount of PvP that scales radically with skill (or lack of).

    I feel like people like you live in a vacuum where you're stressed to get cosmetics for content that was designed to be long-term. You're not supposed to be hard grinding these items, especially if you're not having fun attempting to get them. The whole point of these items being locked behind one of the game's toughest grinds is a motivator to get into the other side of the game's content that you lot like to rush to avoid.

    I'm sorry a PvPvE game is having you do PvP to earn rewards, but you either earn these rewards at your own pace, or you just... don't get these rewards specifically?

    I'm sure that with the occasional times you decide to swear allegiance to a faction, you could have a decent experience, learn a few things to do in PvP that PvE doesn't usually prepare you for (e.g. boarding, chainshots, different weapon combinations).

  • The thing I guess I don't get is why the mode claims to have an immediate matchmaking option that just seems to be making people furious the whole time. The queue times and such seem to be largely insufferable, but I would argue that to be because they represent a sort of broken promise. I don't get why the system isn't basically that you turn the hourglass on and then go about your business and are automatically matched and put into battles whenever someone suitable gets lined up. Then some people would still just sit there and wait to be thrown into it without playing until being matched, but they would know that they're doing something as not intended so they wouldn't feel so ripped off.

    The big issue for players who are pro the way the current mode is long term is what @LordQulex calls burning the candle bottom up (I've heard it referred to as Grognard Capture) which essentially means that unless players can be maintained in this play mode queue times are only going to get longer and longer as fewer and fewer players choose to participate and matches will get harder and longer as the remaining players are of more and more similar high levels. Unless your position is that the mode at the moment is perfect except you think the queue times are way too short, this should be something that, even if you don't like the solutions currently being offered, you should want fixed, and shooting down the solutions offered without suggesting an alternative is only going to eventually contribute to a mode you profess to enjoy decaying until either you don't want to play it or Rare don't want to support it.

    Personally, I think there are a couple of issues, and I say this as someone who couldn't give a damn about the cosmetics (Pretty much the only cosmetic on my pirate I care about are my hands, because that's what I spend hours staring at). First is that its not so much the grind of the PvE version of the hourglass, its the grind plus stress of it. SoT is replete with grinds for achievements/cosmetics etc. often insane levels of grind, but flipping the hourglass to start grind puts you in the position of both grinding very slowly and being a PvP target. Its like if all company progress had to be made with an Emissary flag flying. If even a tiny amount of progress could be made quietly and with pure PvE grinding, then I think the response would be quite different. Like, if the mysterious stranger gave you an extremely incremental amount of progress for something pretty rare, like a chest of ancient tribute or something, then I think the feeling would be different, that its something that will happen by playing how you enjoy eventually, even if its very slow.

    One of the other big issues seems to be that its really kind of just not much fun. It seems to be getting called grind by more people than most parts of the game, even by some people who like it. It seems to lack the epic-ness and interest that you might expect from the story and the background. It seems to be, hit the hourglass, wait for an excessive time, be in a quite arbitrary one on one scrap that has a chance of being too easy/too hard/too quick/too slow to be satisfying and very rarely generates an interesting story. SoT is so rich, broad and emergent that this version of play just feels relatively flat, and it takes a lot of the tools that the game gives you to curate your experience away. In normal play I can spot a sunken treasure map on a tall tale and go from what I thought I was doing, hitting a check point and then diving below the waves in a very free and freeing experience. With this, I hit the hourglass and wait, and wait, for one sort of experience that comes in one form. Maybe if it offered more of a breadth of options, like a solo sloop alliance against a high grade galleon, or an alliance on alliance match, then players could get an incremental level of reward from how their side does rather than just a flat win or loss. Then that idea of interacting with other players with things other than cannonballs could be paid out a little since you might actually chat with your alliance partners. Maybe if the PvP weren't just one sort of PvP? There are lots of potential ways to compete with someone on SoT, why is PvE a hundred parts of the game and PvP just the same part over and over? Ships can race, pirates can duel, treasures can need to be gotten to a certain point, PvP could be richer. I think a simple fix would be rewarding damage caused as well as simply winning or losing, that way marathon matches of attacking and patching up would be worth more than quick sinkings and valiant losses could be worth as much as easy wins.

    For that matter, on the tools not rules front, if it just matched its description I feel like that would be a move in the right direction. I mean, on the blurb it says "Use the War Map to seek out ships of the opposing Faction." when I read that I thought, ah! When you hit the hourglass all other people who have opted in become visible, and everyone has epic, emergent, chases around the map, battling in hit and run! Oh, and the tunnel option from server to server makes so much more sense now! You hit the hourglass, see no-one on your server has opted in, and off you go, seeking action on the digital waves, that makes total sense. Then I tried it, and the war map isn't a map, doesn't use the in game structures, isn't emergent, can't build natural stories and is just a button you push to join that most epic and enjoyable of gaming experiences, a queue.

    The mode just seems not part of the overall SoT ethos is the big thing for me.

  • @lordqulex said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    @targasbr

    But preference is not stopping you from doing it. You may not enjoy tall tales but skill is not preventing you from getting the gold curse.

    A PVP skill ceiling literally prevents players from getting the curse.

    Rare is essentially gatekeeping the curses and gaslighting the players by offering a pittance for losses and pretending like faction treasury makes a difference.

    I could be delivering animals and get sunk by a Kraken.
    Do you get any rewards for being sunk and not delivering the animals? No.
    That prevents players from getting the rewards? No.

    I can be doing a Fort of Fortune and get sunk by a skeleton in a tower I forgot to kill.
    Do you get any rewards for being sunk and not opening the vault and delivering the treasures? No.
    That prevents players from getting the rewards? No.

    Nothing prevents you from getting the curses of the Hourglass factions, because even if you lose the battle you still gain experience, a little, but you do.
    I particularly find this very unbalanced... Rewarding the loser makes no sense to me.

    Anyway, for the first time nothing prevents players from getting the curses, even if it takes time, both because of the player's lack of skill and because of the matchmaking that makes me wait an hour for a game that lasts 1 minute... You can literally vote for the hourglass, wait to be sunk, and repeat the process until you get the curse you clearly didn't deserve, without firing a single cannonball, without doing anything in any battles.

  • @nex-stargaze You see, the thing is when you say ā€œif you hate it that much why not just not get these rewards specifically,ā€ is that if it were literally any other type of reward I wouldn’t even bother with the mode in the first place. But it’s not any other reward, it’s the two of the most requested cosmetic items the game has had since curses came out (and actually probably before that too.)

    Like at the very least why isn’t a win equal to one level and a loss equal to half a level? I could look at someone with the base curse or even someone with the gold variant and be like ā€œoh wow that guy beat over 100/1000 people to get thatā€ but with the way the system is now if I ever see someone with the golden skelly/ghost curse I’d probably be closer to disgusted that I’m even in a lobby with someone who no-life’s the game that hard. 75% of the commendations in these new factions are only even able to be WORKED TOWARDS AFTER you unlock the base curse at 100. Like come on.

  • Where is this notion that:

    lose = still get meaningful progress

    even coming from?

    SoT has always been a tough game, and if you lose a fight with your treasure on your ship you dont get a percentage of it back. You get nothing, you lost it all.

    Its a big part of why its so much fun to win in this game. If losing would give the same rewards, you drive out all the feeling of success out of winning a fight.

    But I say once again: The problem is not in the rewards, its in the mm putting you againts crews of higher skill. These issues are being worked on already and should greatly improve the hg experience.

  • @targasbr You’re acting like the pity xp for losing is the most overpowered thing but I’d literally be willing to bet it would take years to get both curses via only loss xp. You have to lose like 30 matches to get one level (assuming you’re like level 1, and it’s only increasing every time you level up) And with matchmaking times the way they are you’re probably looking at hundreds of hours of doing absolutely nothing, and if you think any single person is going to subject themselves to that I’m sorry to say but you might be high.

  • @nex-stargaze said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    I feel like people like you live in a vacuum where you're stressed to get cosmetics for content that was designed to be long-term. You're not supposed to be hard grinding these items.

    I am a mmorpg player by nature. Whenever level cap gets increased, I am hard-coded to finish the the vertical progression first before I can move on to do roleplaying in taverns. Unlike Sea Dogs that were basically stand-alone mode, Allegiance is vertical progression that unlocks new zones so I have to finish it first before I am allowed to do horizonal content or smell sea water playing shanties. Content being long-term, or short-term doesn't matter - unless the check-box gets checked off, doing anything else than Battle for Sea of Thieves is waste of time.

    @nex-stargaze said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    The whole point of these items being locked behind one of the game's toughest grinds is a motivator to get into the other side of the game's content that you lot like to rush to avoid.

    Why do players rush and avoid pvp content in SoT? The answer is simple - it's not fun. I can spend whole day losing in Overwatch playing support of all roles and still have fun doing it, because combat itself feels rewarding. Being two tapped in SoT doesn't feel fun. It's like being deleted by console command.

    @nex-stargaze said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    I'm sure that with the occasional times you decide to swear allegiance to a faction, you could have a decent experience, learn a few things to do in PvP that PvE doesn't usually prepare you for (e.g. boarding, chainshots, different weapon combinations).

    The decent experience I get is ruined by progression that cares only about winning. What's the point of fighting half hour battle, when the only thing it does is delay losing? And even if I do manage to win somehow, it doesn't feel rewarding. I am just feeling bad for making the progression worse for the enemy. There are no "different weapon combinations". Either you are good with two-tapping and animation cancelling, or you pray Blunderbuss hits all the pellets through the Hit reg.

    The combat is lost cause - otherwise there would had been rework by now. The progression on the other hand can be quite easily made much more player friendly than it's current gambling streaks version.

  • @lordqulex said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    @red0demon0

    I say "significant part of the community" because I don't know the specific percentage but a number of people who post here or have told me over voice chat from the official LFC Discord that they want another way to unlock the curse. No one asking for PVE servers has any interest in hourglass self evidently.

    I say half the community is below average because that's the definition of average; 50% of the people are below average, and 50% are above average. That's quintessential to the definition of average... I suppose yes technically that's the median and not the mean but I didn't think anyone here would split hairs over mathematical terms with me...

    I would like another way to unlock the curse too, that doesn't mean I have no desire to participate in the game mode. I'm sure many people feel the same way too, they just want a more complete experience. Seems a bit biased on how u stated it, and not representative of the community. As another example, you made the argument that half the community are below average, knowing what you mean now, your basically stating the obvious of any game, like yeah, half of the player base in any multiplayer game will end up being below average, since the average is collected based on the gameplay of the players themselves. I think lots of people enjoy the new game mode, it's a welcomed addition so far.

  • @triheadedmonkey said in Increase faction rep gain or reduce curse requirement level.:

    For the record, I am generally the person to avoid a fight if I can.

    A heart condition tends to make any unexpected PvP a bit of a bother šŸ˜‚.

    The On-demand part of it though I don't mind as I know what I am getting into.

    Sea of Thieves has always been about, "what is that ship doing....friend or foe?" and that is part of the reason I started playing it.

    Knowing that you are going into a fight, win or lose, you can still earn progress towards the goal, makes it a lot easier.

    Don't focus on the grind, just play how you want and enjoy! Otherwise it is no longer a game and it becomes work!

    I guess one of my primary criticisms revolves around calling the paltry allegiance earned by a loss "progress." I get one to three hours a night, and my sessions come in one of two forms:

    • Solo sloop, queue for a few minutes (solo sloop times are short I will admit), probably lose them all, walk away with maybe a quarter level.
    • Look for a crew on discord for 10-30 minutes since basically everyone want to be carried and demands you be TSD/LSD to join their crew, buy supplies, lose, get yelled at by one guy for being the reason they lost, they quit, spend a few minutes trying to replace them, repeat three to four times, gain 1/8 of a level.

    If that was the intended experience, then nailed it! But honestly I can't imagine that was the goal and super excited for the cross-stamp match making. The main issue is that the curses are only obtainable in what many consider to be a reasonable time by winning, which as the grognards get herded is becoming harder and harder for many of us. Making the so-called "progress" given to a loss a misnomer IMO.

    I honestly don't see the harm in expanding faction treasury allegiance rewards. Please, someone, anyone, give me one good, well thought out reason why these curses shouldn't be earned through PVE content. And I will not accept "because pvp deserves its own exclusive cosmetics" because though I agree, I disagree it should be two of the most requested cosmetics in the game.

  • @targasbr sounds like you don't even like any aspect of the game

  • its very true to make the fights go quicker the out of bounds area while doing an hourglass should close in so the fight goes quicker but this guy is so right about the pvp aspect of the game

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