I hate pvp but really want the curses

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Dinyou know how many chickens I had to sell to get to PL? Catching and selling chickens WAS NOT FUN. But I did it. For months. And months. And I didn't have cargo voyages. Or ancient bone dust crates. Or sunken ships. I had.... Chickens. But I wanted PL so I sucked it up.

I'm not clear on your point here. You shouldn't have been made to have that experience, that's a pity, if you complained about it, I would agree, and I believe that people did complain about it, and now they have cargo voyages, and bone dust crates and sunken ships. You point here seems to be, don't complain about the game, they might improve it, here's an example of how it sucked for me, and they improved it, so, beware!

Some people HATED the FotD. It's very concept invites PvP, and moreso early in its life. You'd have to be very lucky to grind the FotD successfully without PvP, and there are cosmetics behind then grind.

Lucky, yes, but you can, right? So, that's different from not being able to?

Any and all players have to decide is thing x worth grind y" and act to their own ideas of worth and fun. But nobody is entitled to these curses because they bought the game.

The question isn't they are entitled to the curses, the question is whether they're entitled to do something they don't hate, even grinding something they don't hate, to get it, and more to the point, if the game is better or worse if they can. For example, do you consider the game better or worse now that you don't have to grind catching chickens to get to Legend?

If that were the requirement, might as well say that every PvE cosmetic, every time limited item, and every title should be unlocked from the moment the game is started. I bought the game. I should have it all.

Only if playing the game isn't fun. The point is, you should have a route to accessing everything via fun, the more things you hate you are forced to do, the worse. Saying that everything should be unlocked is like saying you hate the whole game.

Edited to add: Also, the post I made was in response to the idea that people are complaining because they don't want to access the challenge of that part of the game, and that's just not the case, its about the content rather than the challenge.

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Except that it is a PvEvP game and always has been. In more direct terms, any thread that is started or descends into the territory of asking for arena back or asks for PvE servers gets locked with links back to the dev update describing devs vision for the game. PvP has never been an anecdotal part of the game. It has always been a major component and anybody who feels gaslit that significant cosmetics are behind it never read the game description or any of the years worth of forum posts where the devs have been quite consistent on this.

Sorry, where's the logic behind saying "the game is PvPvE, that's why sometimes its pure PvP"? Where's the vE part there? The request isn't to make PvP anecdotal, its to stop making the vE anecdotal.

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness

I believe I understand what your saying, and I never once said anyone is entitled to the curses. It should be a long term goal for people to earn and there will always be the die-hards who grind it out in one redbull fueled weekend, I get that.

You do seem to be saying that PvErs should be entitled to them though. And "entitled" is where I get hung up on the arguments being made. If Rare offers a PvE way to do it, so be it. But if they don't, so be it! Nobody is "entitled" to it unless there were spelled out conditions, the players met those conditions, and they still didn't get it. People who were at lvl 50 seadogs when the announcement was made that arena was closing are "entitled" to the good buy ship set. Because those conditions were spelled out. And if they didn't get it, they should file a bug report. Simple. But other than that, the vision of the game is what it is, and it morphs and evolves. and we don't know what will come. But there is this tone in this thread that it is fundamentally wrong what Rare did: Gaslighting. Bait and switch. Etc. And that I take issue with. Not that you don't like PvP. Not that you want the curse. Not even that some changes aren't welcome. But that Rare is wrong (and apparently evil) for deciding what they did. I'll argue against that all day.

I think the challenge here is that I find it very disingenuous to say "we've created a PVEVP sandbox where you can choose your own path, unless you want this stuff. If you want this stuff you've got to suck it up buttercup and grind pvp wins against crews vastly more skilled than you while they're shouting toxic and racist stuff at you."

What's disingenuous is that argument. Rare has never said that (that is what "Quotes" means....) And more specifically, it is making disingenuous argument because that isn't even Rare's intent, which they have been clear on. Let's break it down.

Do they want you to suck it up and play PvP? Apparently, yes.
Against crews vastly more skilled than you? No. They put in an ELO system that they wrote a dev update about, and are actively working on improvements to make that work better. Matching across stamps should be HUGE. And matching same crew types will be moderately helpful as well. Willfully ignoring their update on this is disingenuous when you say they "want" you to fight significantly more skilled opponents. When working properly, you'll be fighting similarly skilled opponents, and that is even true for those who have a significant "skill ceiling" as has been previously brought up in this thread.

Do they want you to do so while shouting toxic and racist stuff? No. That blatantly is bannable, and Rare has consistently said so. They have followed through on their statements with actualy, verifiable bans. So this argument is not being made in good faith. No need for me to expound further. If you are going to debate, debate in good faith on the merits of your argument. Here is a term similar to gaslighting and bait-and-switch: Strawman. You built one.

Fine yes, I suppose that's bait-and-switch not gaslighting. Whatever you choose to call it, I don't believe it is inclusive to the community nor "respecting pirates and their voyage" to lock something everyone wants behind merely half the game's content. It feels like Rare is breaking the pirate code locking these curses behind PVP wins like this.

Except it isn't. Rare never said "Buy this game, get all cosmetics all the time. Plenty of cosmetics are locked behind PvE grinds that some people don't find fun. That's the fundamental point I made in my last reply that you chose to ignore. There is no way...non...zip....zero...that a sandbox game can have 100% of their activities appeal to 100% of their playerbase. People have complained about time-limited items behind events. When they were on vacation. And how that doesn't "respect" a real-life balance. And yet, we still have time limited cosmetics in seasons, and even attached to shorter two-week adventures. I myself was unable to slay mermaid statues when they were introduced. Back then the black market operated on limited-time cosmetics bought with limited-time dubloons. If you missed the event, you couldn't get the cosmetics or and duobloons to save up for the next event. It as basically a 1:1. I am not complaining about that. This game was not, and is not, and never will be, for completionists. Do what you find fun, and you get rewards to show off that you did it. They are rewards. Nobody is entitled. And if you want a reward bad enough, make a life choice: Grind, or give up the reward.

The time investment disparity between faction treasury allegiance and pvp win allegiance rewards is vast. That is disrespectful to a pirates' time in my opinion. Many players have justified fears that hourglass participation will fall just like arena, making the curses nearly impossible for all but the best of the best to obtain, just like arena. It should be a long term goal, absolutely, but making these curses reasonably obtainable by everyone should not be a contentious topic.

"Faction treasure allegiance" ....?
It isn't disrespectful to a pirate's time. There are players (non-streamers) that have already gotten to 100 by losing 100% of the time. I may not think that is a way to play, but they "earned" that reward nonetheless. They engaged in the content in the manner the devs spelled out, met the conditions, and committed to their choice. And that's the crux, they made that choice. They chose the reward was important to them enough to lose. If people can do that in the 1st momth of the update, they can do so for years to come casually. You bring up arena often, but arena was alive for years. Three years. And while the drop-off was steep, it was never dead. I liked Arena 1.0. I despised arena 2.0. And when it announced its closure, and I still played once a month or so to casually tick up commendations, and always found matches. IT was never truly dead until Rare killed it. The hourglass may or may not suffer the same fate, but this fear that nobody will lose their way to 100 is not founded in the history of the arena. If it lasts 3 years like arena did, any casual can pull it off. In fact, I won matches in arena because I'd land ina lobby where every other ship was TDMing, so I had the chest and sell point to myself. If players are losing on purpose in the HG, similar things will happen. Even the most die-hard anti-pvp person will occasionally span into a match where the other person decides to lose even faster. You'll win a match or two. Its inevitable.

I feel the contention is that some people feel the PVP grind is reasonable, and others see it as unreasonable. That's fine, you can't please everyone all the time. But in this instance I honestly feel like there are many, many more pirates that view the grind as unreasonable. I want people to be able to enjoy the game their way and gain the curses, that's all. It shouldn't be fast or easy, but it should be enjoyable. That's all I'm advocating for. Some people just don't enjoy pvp, so give them a way to get the curses. Don't make it fast, don't make it easy, just make it reasonably possible. (I don't personally feel grinding losses is reasonably possible nor enjoyable.)
Your tone shifted halfway through this paragraph. If you are arguing that you should get slightly (or significantly) more rep for winning and/or losing matches, that seems to be a segment of the population that agrees with you. Plenty of other forum posts are asking for similar. I don't think its the majority, but it isn't an unheard of request. But then you sortof subtly shift to talking about "enjoyable." And that's where we are back to the above. Nothing will be enjoyable to everyone. You even started saying you can't please everyone all the time. But then want these to be earned by doing something enjoyable by everyone. And that's not possible. People will have to accept that some cosmetics and rewards will be locked behind tasks they don't enjoy.

I haven't missed grogmanay yet, but those tasks are often more obnoxious than enjoyable. And this year appears to be no different. Do you know how hard it is to kill a shark while staying drunk? I think that took me two hours last year before it popped. One challenge; two hours. Most HG PVP matches don't last nearly that long. And that is for a tiny change (one notch) on an existing cosmetic. That nobody else will even see! When is the last time you saw a pirate with a grogmanay tankard equipped. And when is the last time you bothered to count the notches.

And yet, it exists. Its a reward. Behind tasks that many won't find fun. That has been and will be the nature of this game. So yes, put me in the "suck it up buttercup" camp. Politely suggesting changes is fine. But this sense that Rare is doing something wrong (gaslighting, bait-switch, etc) is that bridge too far that I lose what little empathy I had, and will politely, but firmly, call out entitlement mentality regardless of its disguise.

@gtothefo said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Dinyou know how many chickens I had to sell to get to PL? Catching and selling chickens WAS NOT FUN. But I did it. For months. And months. And I didn't have cargo voyages. Or ancient bone dust crates. Or sunken ships. I had.... Chickens. But I wanted PL so I sucked it up.

I'm not clear on your point here. You shouldn't have been made to have that experience, that's a pity, if you complained about it, I would agree, and I believe that people did complain about it, and now they have cargo voyages, and bone dust crates and sunken ships. You point here seems to be, don't complain about the game, they might improve it, here's an example of how it sucked for me, and they improved it, so, beware!

No, you missed the point. I should have been made to have that experience. I made PL that way, and have no problems that I did. I made the choice to grind it out. And had many great and unexpected adventures doing so. The stories of solo slooping, catching snakes, and hearing cannonballs against my ship, just to run back; snake still in hand, and hearing the other crew go "oh no, poor guy is catching snakes!" and repairing my ship as I still climb the latter, then them feeding the two pigs that managed to survive the cannonball blasts? Only in Sea of Thieves to foe turn friend that fast.

So if you are still confused about my point, my point wasn't that I suffered in vain. My point was that long grined have been a part of this game since day one. They made some grinds easier, and introduced new hard grinds to replace them. We don't know what the future of the HG battles. We know from the orb that some sort of scheme is afoot as Ramsey looks to unite the current traders. Maybe guilds. Maybe something else. And maybe that changes the HG; more than two factions battling? Who knows! And sure, thinking the grind is too long (or too short) are valid opinions to have. But accusing Rare of acting in bad faith or gasp "ignoring their fans" or disrespecting pirates is that bridge too far. Nothing they've done deserves that level of vitriol.

So yes, maybe, just maybe, players could try embracing the grind and have new stories to tell. You might lose 90 fights, and then spawn into a well-matched fight that goes on 15 minutes when a galleon that shares your allegiance swoops in and makes for an epic three-way ship fight, and then y'all sail off after sinking that dastardly reaper and open up glitterbeard's vault. And you find yourself occasionally sailing with a few members of that galleon crew that you've befriended, because filling a galleon is hard and they always have an open slot or two with a rotating group of friends. God forbid THAT happens because people actually embraced the grind a little.

Do you know people have gotten married who met on SoT?

Am I beating this point to death yet since you missed it the first time?

Some people HATED the FotD. It's very concept invites PvP, and moreso early in its life. You'd have to be very lucky to grind the FotD successfully without PvP, and there are cosmetics behind then grind.

Lucky, yes, but you can, right? So, that's different from not being able to?

So is there some sort of code block I missed that prevents someone from voting on the hourglass, then anchoring as soon as they surface or running around then anchoring, and securing their own loss in a way that still gets the rep?

Anyone. ANYONE. Can grind to 100, or even 1000. It may be unfun. I'd never advocate it. But "not being able to" is not a real argument. For people who hate PvP or are not good at it, they may get 9 out of 10 FotD's stolen and make no progress on those commendations and those cosmetics. They could send an hour killing colorful skellies for an hour and have the key stolen from them with a blunder to the back as they get the final kill on Graymarrow, and therefore get ZERO progress for their hour of time. This is not a false equivalence that I made. Its one of the most directly comparable types of activities and challenges that non-PvPers may face. And, in fact, might even be harder becuase unlike the hourglass, there is no matchmaking. You just get rolled up on and lose. At least with the HG, you shuold have a reasonable chance of winning if you engage and matchmaking does its thing. Is that true right now? No, but we know for a fact that changes are coming.

Any and all players have to decide is thing x worth grind y" and act to their own ideas of worth and fun. But nobody is entitled to these curses because they bought the game.

The question isn't they are entitled to the curses, the question is whether they're entitled to do something they don't hate, even grinding something they don't hate, to get it, and more to the point, if the game is better or worse if they can. For example, do you consider the game better or worse now that you don't have to grind catching chickens to get to Legend?

This game will always have activities some players hate. Some players HATE fishing. But to get some of the cosmetics and titles in hunters call, griding fishing is the way.

To directly answer your question, more types of activities make the game better. Fishing, even if someone hates it, makes the game better because it appeals to a type of player that might otherwise not play the game at all. If PL was still locked behind catching chickens, I'd be 100% fine with that. The easier griend is noehter good nor bad to me. It is an evolution of the game, and the HG will undoubtedly evolve too. Even arena evolved. I hated ...HATED....Arena 2.0. I thought the single chest was painful, ugly, and took away a lot of the tactical decision space that arena 1.0 had. But it appealed to some players more than 1.0 did. So be it.

Unlike arena though, the HG exists in adventure and therefore can evolve with adventure, whereas Arena was fundamentally limited by the competition space that they had created. They could tweak points for chests, cannon hits, times of matches, etc, but they couldn't change its core without breaking what it was. And ultimately running a second game mode was too burdensome based on their posts. HG won't have that problem, so if activity dies, they can change it. They may even add PvE content to it. Who knows. I'm not arguing against that. The OP asked how many games he'd have to lose to grind it out. And some others took it upon themselves to say Rare was evil for putting cosmetics behind a PvP grind using the OPs post as a basis to argue their own arguments. So I am providing counterpoints. I am not opposing change. I am opposing a shift in this topic to "Rare is evil,"

If that were the requirement, might as well say that every PvE cosmetic, every time limited item, and every title should be unlocked from the moment the game is started. I bought the game. I should have it all.

Only if playing the game isn't fun. The point is, you should have a route to accessing everything via fun, the more things you hate you are forced to do, the worse. Saying that everything should be unlocked is like saying you hate the whole game.

"The point is you should have a route to accessing EVERYTHING via fun"

No. THAT'S not right. Because there is no way to make something fun for everyone. Different activities will be fun for different personality types. And those people should have that item to show off that they did their kind of fun. If you don't find PvP fun, that's FINE!!! If you don't find fishing fun, THAT'S FINE!!!!! If you don't find catching chickens fun.....you're WEIRD!!!! (joking!) and that's FINE!!!!! But you don't get the things to show off that you caught 1,828,242 chickens.

Not everything should be fun to unlock for everyone. It'll be fun for some people, and the others aren't forced to participate. But they should accept that their unwillingness to participate means they don't get those particular rewards. Its a subtle but important difference.

Edited to add: Also, the post I made was in response to the idea that people are complaining because they don't want to access the challenge of that part of the game, and that's just not the case, its about the content rather than the challenge.

@gtothefo said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Except that it is a PvEvP game and always has been. In more direct terms, any thread that is started or descends into the territory of asking for arena back or asks for PvE servers gets locked with links back to the dev update describing devs vision for the game. PvP has never been an anecdotal part of the game. It has always been a major component and anybody who feels gaslit that significant cosmetics are behind it never read the game description or any of the years worth of forum posts where the devs have been quite consistent on this.

Sorry, where's the logic behind saying "the game is PvPvE, that's why sometimes its pure PvP"? Where's the vE part there? The request isn't to make PvP anecdotal, its to stop making the vE anecdotal.

It isn't pure PvP. Never has been, never will be. It is PvPvE. A ship might roll up on you during your PvE adventure and try to force PvP, and you might run. Then they might get kraken'ed and you get away. A PvE event interrupted their attempt to force PvP. The game has always had unexpected events that can mix PvPvE in unique ways. Neither is anecdotal.

More specifically with the S8 feature-set, PvP isn't more forced. Nobody forces you to vote on the hourglass. I'd argue that the type of player that used to server hop, checking emmy tables for wooden ships, can now vote to fight other players also looking for PvP, which makes the waters CALMER for PvErs, and somewhat safer for those players to vote up an emmy flag while doing their adventures for more gold, giving them more opportunities to get other cosnetics that may have previously been harder to get. While S8 didn't introduce any new PvE mechanics, they still impact PvE in a way that enhances PvE, not detracts from it.

Im pretty sure its around 130 wins. I have 40 wins and 37 level, and Im getting 1 level per 2 wins. Or does it change in the future to 4 wins/1 level? And if it does then at what point?

@guyrza It does indeed change along the way, levels require more allegiance as you go up. It seems to be gradual tho (or at least I couldn't pin-point the exact moment where it increases). It's difficult to say exactly how much wins are needed tho since winstreaks and selling big hourglasses heavily influence the allegiance gain.

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Not everything should be fun to unlock for everyone.

Why not? Why is this not an acceptable mission statement? Why should the developer not try to make unlocking any given cosmetic as fun and accessible to as many players as possible? What do you gain from other people's disengagement? I would think everyone gains when everyone's engagement increases.

Because not everyone enjoys the same activities...how hard of a concept is that to grasp? You can NEVER make everyone happy, and when you try you usually end up with a mediocre product.

You also infer that the majority of people agree with you, thinking that somehow this update isn't popular and may die out. Where is the proof of this? Hmmmm?

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@dlchief58 said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Not everything should be fun to unlock for everyone.

Why not? Why is this not an acceptable mission statement? Why should the developer not try to make unlocking any given cosmetic as fun and accessible to as many players as possible? What do you gain from other people's disengagement? I would think everyone gains when everyone's engagement increases.

Because not everyone enjoys the same activities...how hard of a concept is that to grasp? You can NEVER make everyone happy, and when you try you usually end up with a mediocre product.

You also infer that the majority of people agree with you, thinking that somehow this update isn't popular and may die out. Where is the proof of this? Hmmmm?

Exactly! Not everyone enjoys the same thing! So why not open a more PVE friendly way to gain allegiance?

The proof is arena mate. If you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it.

Arena does not apply as even most PvP oriented players did not enjoy it - they wanted something more akin to what Season 8 brought which was direct ship to ship combat (or Team Deathmatch as many Arena sessions later devolved into), not farming cannon shots and turning in chests. Learn WHY something failed so you look less foolish when you try to use it as a justification for your own agenda and you get schooled on the subject. It did not fail because no one wanted PvP (that is a stupid, narrow-minded assumption), it failed because it was not the form of PvP that players wanted (and long queue times certainly didn't help its longevity either, yet you also ignored that fact because it doesn't suit your narrative that "PVP is BAD").

You made quite a leap in logic there to, changing the conversation to suit your needs while ignoring the point made. We were talking about the fact that games oftentimes have goals that do not appeal to others, yet you try to twist it with your circular logic as a justification of your point. Rare made the decision to lock some of the few cosmetics behind a PvP grind when everything else is locked behind a PvE grind. This is service to a long ignored segment of the community, yet you have this sense of entitlement that you think you should get them via an easier PvE grind. If everyone can easily get these, they are no longer special.

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

Exactly! Not everyone enjoys the same thing! So why not open a more PVE friendly way to gain allegiance?

Because as we have seen with the Emissary system, PvP becomes an optional endeavor, which kills the whole point of engaging in PvP content in the first place.

Having to only PvP to grind one aspect of the game is the only way PvP is at least acknowledged and accepted on the seas, especially in Adventure Mode. Right now, this is villainized as an activity you shouldn't be engaging in, let alone wielding 2 guns for. For some people, the PvP is some of the most exciting post-grind activities to engage in. This game's world combines both aspects of PvE and PvP into a single world and because it's emergent, it can happen to anyone, at any time, under any conditions, in the name of chaos.

If people PvE-grinded these factions, it would be no different to how people grind Reaper's Bones or Athena's Fortune these days, it would remove the whole point of the factions being created in the first place. The new curses/areas being a dangling carrot for you lot to actually go after and learn that getting involved in content you do not enjoy is perfectly optional, should be the wake up call y'all need to realize that not everything is made for everyone, and you will need to adapt to get what you're seeking, regardless of how ridiculous the grind can be.

Pre-Checkpoint grinding for Gold Curse was totally optional that very few people were able to achieve within a certain amount of time. Of course, eventually the checkpoint system was created and the checkpoints have introduced an unexpected exploit to get through the grind, but this Hourglass grind? Not much to exploit (as of now), so the only option you have is to do it the normal way as most of everyone else, and start winning your battles. Get involved in PvP combat, or don't. It's not that hard to decide, and you can still do your own PvE grinds in (mostly) peace without having to force yourself through a grind just to be a playable dead character.

@lordqulex

You're justifying it because you simply want it. Well, instead of doing the same old content you've been spoon fed for 7 seasons, now you can do some NEW content in the form of previously implemented mechanics that usually go unused/ignored in an equal/fair scenario and >eventually< earn some cool rewards in for your efforts.

You guys are complaining about something Rare isn't even going to improve until 2023. On top of you lot looking more like PvE server enthusiasts, which I will have NO part in arguing against, You're coming around to the same conclusions that are consistently being argued against. At this rate, trying to not result into telling you lot "skill issue" or "get better" is getting even harder to deal with. Just... chill.

Alternatively, Rare could release 2 recolors of the base curses (let say an Ancient Skeleton themed curse and a purple ghost curse) and put them behind a PvE grind. That should be good for the most PvP averse players and wouldn't interfere with the Sea of Bones' ones.

@lordqulex

You've used this "I suffered so now its your turn to suffer" statement and attributed it to your debate opponents multiple times now. And yet nowhere have I actually seen anybody write such a statement, or any statement that could reasonably be construed as such.

It is also telling that you have now said multiple times that you are fine with PvP'ers getting "their own" cosmetics to show off, but it shouldn't have been THESE cosmetics. And there is the crux of the matter. You want THESE cosmetics, so you shift the goalposts based on the debate (as I've pointed out rationally in previous replies.) If the argument, in principle, is valid that people get exclusive cosmetics for committing and succeeding at a playstyle, then which cosmetics truly becomes irrelevant. You can say that they are the most requested items in the history of the game, but I also previously pointed out that this wasn't accurate. People have requested many ways to PvE the original pirate legend weapons from arena, but that didn't change. People have lamented that various original colorations be brought back of time limited items, because other items are not time limited and its somehow "unfair' that they can't complete a set. People have complained, quite loudly, that some items were locked behind preorder only, or expensive time limited accessories (controller, hard drive) and all have, at one time or another, had MUCH more traction than the requests for a ghost or skellie curse. I still see posts once a week here, on reddit, and twitter, about the obsidian capstan being rare gifts from twitch streamers and how they shouldn't have to watch twitch and be part of some streamer's community for days on end just to "complete" their obsidian/onyx set.

If not getting a cosmetic is "suffering" (it isn't) and you think that those of us who are pointing out that exclusive cosmetics are "normal" is advocating for "suffering" (we are not) then your perception and ability to step outside of your own confirmation bias is astoundingly limited. I truly believe you need to take a step back and have some introspection because, as I just mentioned, you seem to agree with the concept in principle, but are getting frustrated with which cosmetics were chosen. And once you start down that path, there will be someone who would make your arguments against you (or the concept) for any cosmetic that was put behind the PvP grind because there will always be someone who decides that was their favorite (new or old) cosmetic. It is inevitable.

This falls under "you can't please everyone all the time" and your stance has really become one of degrees, which is a losing proposition.

@lordqulex said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

@strangeness

I agree, but again you have to look at the prize. Most everyone wants one or both curses. You can't say that for pvp. I feel it's irresponsible to irk a significant portion of the population by locking the most coveted curses behind a contentious game mode.

Some people love pvp, some hate it, some tolerate it, some like the ever-present threat of it, emotions run the entire spectrum. Everyone wants the curses. I don't mind them being hard to get, they should be, but what many players mind is forcing us into one specific play mode to get them; a play mode many players avoid at all costs. You can't claim your game is a PVEVP sandbox then put the prize everyone desires behind only a fraction of the game. That, in my opinion, is gaslighting an large swathe of players you attracted with the other fraction of the game.

The way i see it, the more something is wanted, the more it is desired by many people, the more challenging it should be to get. Until now the gold curse was the most desired curse in the game, and it was the hardest grind for anyone to get, so it makes sense that curses that are vastly more desired than that be put behind something vastly more difficult to do.

@goldsmen said in I hate pvp but really want the curses:

The way i see it, the more something is wanted, the more it is desired by many people, the more challenging it should be to get. Until now the gold curse was the most desired curse in the game, and it was the hardest grind for anyone to get, so it makes sense that curses that are vastly more desired than that be put behind something vastly more difficult to do.

Most of the curses seem to be behind pretty difficult challenges, minus Ashen Curse.

• Sunken Curse is difficult without the usage of a guide, and if you did this prior to S8, the seas would be FAR from kind to you on this voyage due to going down into shrines for keys and solving puzzles, leaving your ship unguarded and easy to be sunk.

• Gold Curse requires doing 45 unique runs of tall tales in the main world while also finding lore journal during the tall tales, all in static but hard to find locations if you're not observant of the journals at all.

• PL Curse is a weird one, because it was (always) a timed exclusive cosmetic that could be easily obtained Season 1, and did not return until Season 8, under new conditions not related to leveling up your renown, but instead getting to Level 105 in Guardians of Fortune, which is astronomically more difficult than leveling the Season 1 pass. Though, this makes the exclusivity of the cosmetic even more pure as those who missed out on that particular cosmetic, like many cosmetics that returned from time limited events, will now have to undergo much more difficult and time consuming grinds not proportionate to the original means to obtain it.

All that being said, Ghost and Skeleton curse perfectly fit the trend of how pure curse grinds are meant to be, people just don't like it because they're getting outskilled with the few matches they get against other, more seasoned players. Hopefully things will lighten up when the devs return and give us our January emporium update that will also hopefully feature a few changes they are looking into regarding matchmaking.

@lordqulex

Getting them took some players days, others weeks, will take me months, and will take some years. That is not a fair and inclusive rule set. Unfair and exclusive rule sets decrease engagement and discourage participation.

I understand the frustration but wasn't this true before? Getting sunk on a voyage in Adventure slows down your progress. So those with more PvP experience are going to progress faster in anything... It's not 1:1 by a long shot, but the idea of playing better to progress faster has always been a part of this game.
It took me 2 months to become a Pirate Legend, and of course those who were better at PvP did it earlier, because they were able to win more skeleton forts.

That alone doesn't mean it's a good thing, I know...

The problem is it takes much, much, much more cumulative time due to circumstances out of our control. The rules are written against us.

For me it always comes down to this: There just aren't enough rewards on the way to 100. The curses are a reward that's really far off for everybody and the long grind is demotivating. It would have been so much better if there were plenty of rewards on the way to 100. I remember when I was grinding for Pirate Legend in Year One, and it seemed that just about every level had something new tied to it. You'd gradually unlock special company clothing and equipment and then ship parts. That was a great grind. Wide options to level up, and plenty of rewards to distract you from the goal.

S8 needed that. If there were rewards on the way to 100 people would be less focused on that goal and less demotivated in the 50-75 range where they already spent a lot of effort and it's only getting harder to level up. In my case, I was in that demotivation range when I dumped my free time during the Gold and Glory weekend into SoT. I raised 40+ levels and got to 100.

@nex-stargaze

All that being said, Ghost and Skeleton curse perfectly fit the trend of how pure curse grinds are meant to be

Yeah I never thought about that. I wonder how many players found all the journals without using the internet? That would have taken a lot of time for the shores of gold.