My experience in this game mode the last time I tried it (recently).
Lose twice in a row. I should get a more adecuate opponent right now, right? My win/loss ratio is now worse.
Next match: Guardian of fortune champion, athena emmisary 5 and good boy set, the guy had "Legendary Hunter of Sea of Thieves" as a title, and had the gold curse.
Does matchmaking even work?
@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
My experience in this game mode the last time I tried it (recently).
Lose twice in a row. I should get a more adecuate opponent right now, right? My win/loss ratio is now worse.
Next match: Guardian of fortune champion, athena emmisary 5 and good boy set, the guy had "Legendary Hunter of Sea of Thieves" as a title, and had the gold curse.
Does matchmaking even work?
One of my favorite computer science quotes is, "a computer only does precisely what you tell it." So, yes? It's working precisely as it is programmed to do so. 🤣
All kidding aside, skill based match making is a spectrum. On one side you have very short queue times with the potential for incredibly lopsided matches. On the other side you have remarkably long queue times waiting for someone relatively close to your match making rank. Erring toward the close match side is a mistake because if you don't widen the net enough you could wind up with a dozen people all equally spaced in MMR that never match with each other because they just aren't quite close enough. Erring on the fast side is what Rare has done: you're matching quickly with incredibly over skilled crews.
It's a bad game of 'would you rather.' Would you rather wait a long time to get into a match with a closely skilled crew that may take a long time to resolve, or would you rather match very quickly and risk being severely outclassed or severely outclassing your opponent? This is why I keep saying player population should be our paramount concern. Skill based match making only works when your player base is large enough to allow a standard distribution of skills. The problem is, in Sea of Thieves there is a large contingent of "never PVP'ers" and PVEVP'ers that don't participate in hourglass that right-shift the standard distribution curve toward the highly skilled such that even "competent" and "above average" PVP'ers are considered "low skill" in hourglass.
You're probably not bad, hourglass is just filled with pirates that good.
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
My experience in this game mode the last time I tried it (recently).
Lose twice in a row. I should get a more adecuate opponent right now, right? My win/loss ratio is now worse.
Next match: Guardian of fortune champion, athena emmisary 5 and good boy set, the guy had "Legendary Hunter of Sea of Thieves" as a title, and had the gold curse.
Does matchmaking even work?
One of my favorite computer science quotes is, "a computer only does precisely what you tell it." So, yes? It's working precisely as it is programmed to do so. 🤣
All kidding aside, skill based match making is a spectrum. On one side you have very short queue times with the potential for incredibly lopsided matches. On the other side you have remarkably long queue times waiting for someone relatively close to your match making rank. Erring toward the close match side is a mistake because if you don't widen the net enough you could wind up with a dozen people all equally spaced in MMR that never match with each other because they just aren't quite close enough. Erring on the fast side is what Rare has done: you're matching quickly with incredibly over skilled crews.
It's a bad game of 'would you rather.' Would you rather wait a long time to get into a match with a closely skilled crew that may take a long time to resolve, or would you rather match very quickly and risk being severely outclassed or severely outclassing your opponent? This is why I keep saying player population should be our paramount concern. Skill based match making only works when your player base is large enough to allow a standard distribution of skills. The problem is, in Sea of Thieves there is a large contingent of "never PVP'ers" and PVEVP'ers that don't participate in hourglass that right-shift the standard distribution curve toward the highly skilled such that even "competent" and "above average" PVP'ers are considered "low skill" in hourglass.
You're probably not bad, hourglass is just filled with pirates that good.
Yeah, and the game mode is not attracting players into it, it is actually repelling and demoralizing those who try it.
No. Both ghost and skeleton curses are what community begged for years now. It is supposed to be a reward and not something everyone can grind in 2 days and forget about. There is no value in something you can get in no time. There is a reason LSDs are approached with caution and small dose of respect.
@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
My experience in this game mode the last time I tried it (recently).
Lose twice in a row. I should get a more adecuate opponent right now, right? My win/loss ratio is now worse.
Next match: Guardian of fortune champion, athena emmisary 5 and good boy set, the guy had "Legendary Hunter of Sea of Thieves" as a title, and had the gold curse.
Does matchmaking even work?
Yep, I ran into a similar situation a few days ago. I was solo queuing and I had just won my first match. My second match had me paired up against MixelPlx. I'm level 54 and working to get the ghost curse.
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
No. Both ghost and skeleton curses are what community begged for years now. It is supposed to be a reward and not something everyone can grind in 2 days and forget about. There is no value in something you can get in no time. There is a reason LSDs are approached with caution and small dose of respect.
I never expected to get it in two days, but at least within a reasonable time. I already invested a lot of time in this game mode and I am still level 30.
Also, it makes more sense to me to fear someone for their ship set as I can see that from afar, because by the time I can see the cosmetics on a pirate they are already close and it would be impossible to escape.
@dragotech123 I'm sorry my dude, but "A lot of time in this game mode" and "lvl 30" in the same sentence makes no sense xD. Unless you loose every single time.
Again though: This is supposed to be a big reward, somethng everyone begged for years. If anything, I think it's way to easy to get right now.
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 I'm sorry my dude, but "A lot of time in this game mode" and "lvl 30" in the same sentence makes no sense xD. Unless you loose every single time.
Again though: This is supposed to be a big reward, somethng everyone begged for years. If anything, I think it's way to easy to get right now.
I would argue my dude, that level 30 is a decent amount of time in the game mode. People just want their time to be respected.
@adara-haze Yes, I have invested a lot of time. Adn yes, I lose a lot, and after spending a lot of time sailing in circles and shooting the enemy in long battles.
Honest questions: how many matches do you think I have played? how many matches do you I've won? how much do you think my matches last?
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 I'm sorry my dude, but "A lot of time in this game mode" and "lvl 30" in the same sentence makes no sense xD. Unless you loose every single time.
Again though: This is supposed to be a big reward, somethng everyone begged for years. If anything, I think it's way to easy to get right now.
Can I ask your W/L ratio?
The only reason one could feasibly say it is too easy to get the curses is because SBMM is broken and you're probably matching against people much less skilled than you. If your W/L ratio were smaller you'd probably be seeing things from our perspective.
@lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 I'm sorry my dude, but "A lot of time in this game mode" and "lvl 30" in the same sentence makes no sense xD. Unless you loose every single time.
Again though: This is supposed to be a big reward, somethng everyone begged for years. If anything, I think it's way to easy to get right now.
Can I ask your W/L ratio?
The only reason one could feasibly say it is too easy to get the curses is because SBMM is broken and you're probably matching against people much less skilled than you. If your W/L ratio were smaller you'd probably be seeing things from our perspective.
Exactly this! The difference in time for the player who wins constantly and the one who loses constantly is abysmal! It is a really, really wide gap.
Again: Ghost and skeleton curses are supposed to be big rewards.
Użytkownik @lordqulex napisał w Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 I'm sorry my dude, but "A lot of time in this game mode" and "lvl 30" in the same sentence makes no sense xD. Unless you loose every single time.
Again though: This is supposed to be a big reward, somethng everyone begged for years. If anything, I think it's way to easy to get right now.
Can I ask your W/L ratio?
The only reason one could feasibly say it is too easy to get the curses is because SBMM is broken and you're probably matching against people much less skilled than you. If your W/L ratio were smaller you'd probably be seeing things from our perspective.
I don't circle around for hours. If fight is tough and looks like a long drag I just do the most risky thing. If it works, I win, if not, I'm in next battle in 5 minutes.
I invade and not wait for other people to invade me, which often lets you catch people of guard...
So yeah, maybe you are playing it a little wrong if the curse is your only goal.
Edit: Also I don't think getting these curses is effortless or very easy... but for what they are (literally top tier thing everyone begged rare for) these are not hard enough to get at the moment.
@adara-haze said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
- You have to board in pvp. No getting around it.
- You don't have to play solo, brigs, galleons and official SoT discord do exist. No need to endlessly spin around in a sloop.
- Clearly not that much if you are level 30.
- Use emissary, pick up enemy flag and sell hourglass only after two wins.
Again: Ghost and skeleton curses are supposed to be big rewards.
Edit: Can you please tell me how often do you win? What's your win/loss ratio?
I have been playing hourglass exclusively since S8 released. I am currently 53D and 26S. My W/L ratio bobs between 30-40%.
I have played most every night since November 22nd, 1-3 hours a night. Can you please explain to me in your opinion what you consider "playing enough" to get the curses? I don't want some pejorative "enough to get the curses" response. How many hours per day do you expect people to play for how many days for this to be an achievement? I understand HG is a permanent feature and will not sunset with S8, but we're getting new content in March (S9 scheduled but could be delayed I guess) so my expectation would be players who religiously grind HG the entire season should be much closer to getting them than I am...
So yeah, maybe you are playing it a little wrong if the curse is your only goal.
Also, the curse is virtually the only goal until level 100, the figureheads and titles are trash, so I question whether you have any idea what you're even talking about.
Lol I’m not gate keeping I’m in the grind myself, I want the curses I’m just willing to work for them. I too have a life and responsibilities. I don’t expect to become a doctor by saying cheat is ok because I have other things to do… and if you don’t think that what you are doing isn’t an exploit then don’t ever complain about double gunning or anchor mushroom caps lol. As far as the other dude, no I don’t think you should be punished because of these people but they are absolutely punishing you and I alike for actually going for the curses. This behavior is what is keeping new people from joining in, it’s throwing off the MMR and you’re right I actually wanna fight in the mode and it’s frustrating to have so many people just sailing out of bounds or setting themselves on fire. Most of you can win more fights than you think. Just give it a go, if the other dude is a god then don’t repair and sink to him, but at least try…. The justification of all of this solely for a pixel change is just mind boggling….. ya but…… ya but. Again gold curse cost me HOURS off of my life doing mindless tasks multiple times and I still did it. So there is no defense, I didn’t complain that it wasn’t fair I couldn’t just pvp for it. I have all the curses and had to do all the PVE to do it. Your excuse is invalid
@jj-h816 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Lol I’m not gate keeping I’m in the grind myself, I want the curses I’m just willing to work for them. I too have a life and responsibilities. I don’t expect to become a doctor by saying cheat is ok because I have other things to do… and if you don’t think that what you are doing isn’t an exploit then don’t ever complain about double gunning or anchor mushroom caps lol. As far as the other dude, no I don’t think you should be punished because of these people but they are absolutely punishing you and I alike for actually going for the curses. This behavior is what is keeping new people from joining in, it’s throwing off the MMR and you’re right I actually wanna fight in the mode and it’s frustrating to have so many people just sailing out of bounds or setting themselves on fire. Most of you can win more fights than you think. Just give it a go, if the other dude is a god then don’t repair and sink to him, but at least try…. The justification of all of this solely for a pixel change is just mind boggling….. ya but…… ya but. Again gold curse cost me HOURS off of my life doing mindless tasks multiple times and I still did it. So there is no defense, I didn’t complain that it wasn’t fair I couldn’t just pvp for it. I have all the curses and had to do all the PVE to do it. Your excuse is invalid
I've started doing exactly that some days ago, if I see that I cannot win in a reasonable ammount of time I go for the loss. But I still feel that I lost a lot of time already for a tiny portion. And if that's what is going to be happening constantly then why should I try anyway if loss farmers are getting the same ammount, and even faster because they don't even put resistance.
I want my time to be respected. Yeah, I admit I suck at PvP, and I try to improve, but I'm losing my motivation because the progress for a loser is slower, and it's even slower after trying just to get the same result. At least the shores of gold is much more constant ammount of time between those invested in the story and those who just want to get over with it quickly. But the hourglass will be relatively fast for those who win, while the losers goes at an extremely low pace that demoralizes. The gap is too wide.
This is probably the biggest reason to increase allegiance gains for losses. Every other curse in the game is relatively consistent in time investment to get. But hourglass is a zero sum game, every streamer with a hundred streak sunk a hundred crews to get that. It is incredibly lopsided to get and that is a problem.
This isn't a chess tournament. We're not playing for money we're playing for memes. It's not possible to "win" Sea of Thieves, only to play it. And the skill gap is what is making the play experience so vastly different in hourglass. I would have no complaints about the streak system if a loss rewarded the same allegiance as a win. But forcing lesser skilled pirates to get curb stomped due to a remarkably broken and exploitable SBMM system, and then insisting that winning get rewarded so much more than losing, Rare is fostering a vastly different play experience from player to player which should not be the goal for a sandbox game like this.
Rare should absolutely reward an equal amount of allegiance for wins and losses up to level 100. The current system is fine for the completionists who want the golden curses, they're volunteering for that nightmare. But for the base curses, this system is absurdly broken.
I feel like the developers should focus on rewarding more the ones who try and still lose, instead of focusing on punishing those who cheese the system.
I think it's better to reward the legit losers even if cheesers get benefits from that, than punishing cheesers even if that means that legit losers will be affected by that.
And if they want to reward legit losers AND punish cheesers then the a system where effort and performance is recognized must be implemented into the hourglass mode.
@lordqulex breeeeeeeeeh YOU ARE FORCING THE LOPSIDED MATCH MAKING TO THOSE LOWER THAN YOU!!!!! Just play and get better? I’m on at 79 still grinding homie, lost 3 times today with one in #NotSalty
@dragotech123 hey bro I’ll absolutely sail with you sometime and we’ll get you caught up and I’ll help you improve/just kick it add me on Xbox man
@jj-h816 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 hey bro I’ll absolutely sail with you sometime and we’ll get you caught up and I’ll help you improve/just kick it add me on Xbox man
Thank you, you have no idea how helpful it is to find someone willing to assist me in leveling up. I only happened to encounter one person so far who helped and that was for helping me level my Servant to 10 some months ago.
@lordqulex I agree, they should boost allegiance gains. I still think it should be one level for every ship you sink. If you lose a fight it should be a quarter of a level. One hundred ships is still a grind to get the base curse. I have sunk 72 ships and I'm only at level 54. I also don't like gambling away my winning streaks. So, I usually lower my hourglass once I've won a few matches, which makes the whole process take even longer.
The level 1000 curse is insane with the current allegiance system. Something needs to be done about it. It took me almost 3 years to get Legend of the Sea of Thieves (500 skelly ships sunk at a casual pace). The alliegance system should have never been implemented. There are way too many variables that make these curses unobtainable for a lot of the community. Variables like, sbmm, queue times, restocking after a loss, and long player battles. It makes the whole process way longer than it needs to be.
@jester1027 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
"There are way too many variables that make these curses unobtainable for a lot of the community. Variables like, sbmm, queue times, restocking after a loss, and long player battles. It makes the whole process way longer than it needs to be."
Also: difference in skills, difference in playstyles (boarding spam or preassure with cannonballs, and so on), cursed cannonballs held by you or the opponent, spawn locations, wind direction at the start of the match, volcanoes throwing random rocks, storms, ammount of supplies your enemy may have, if your opponent had a flag or not, hitreg, and getting attacked by a kraken after winning by very little just to have the timer for invasion reset because the game bugged.
@jj-h816 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@lordqulex breeeeeeeeeh YOU ARE FORCING THE LOPSIDED MATCH MAKING TO THOSE LOWER THAN YOU!!!!! Just play and get better? I’m on at 79 still grinding homie, lost 3 times today with one in #NotSalty
Unbashfully, yes, yes I am. That doesn't mean I don't want Rare to fix it to make the experience better for everyone. I will never ever ever apologize for progressing toward my goals in the most efficient means available. I want the curses. You know what I wouldn't do if losses awarded more allegiance? Lose intentionally. 🤷♂️
@dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@jester1027 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
"There are way too many variables that make these curses unobtainable for a lot of the community. Variables like, sbmm, queue times, restocking after a loss, and long player battles. It makes the whole process way longer than it needs to be."Also: difference in skills, difference in playstyles (boarding spam or preassure with cannonballs, and so on), cursed cannonballs held by you or the opponent, spawn locations, wind direction at the start of the match, volcanoes throwing random rocks, storms, ammount of supplies your enemy may have, if your opponent had a flag or not, hitreg, and getting attacked by a kraken after winning by very little just to have the timer for invasion reset because the game bugged.
100% agree!
They shouldn't have locked the PL weapons behind Arena, and they shouldn't have locked the base curses behind Hourglass.
That's not to say that PvP modes shouldn't exist. It's healthier for the game that they do. And that's not to say that they shouldn't come with their own cosmetic rewards & commendations; they should.
But it is unfortunate, imo, that these cosmetics were made so exclusive.
@jj-h816 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
@dragotech123 add me I should be able to play in the next few days I am central time zone my dude
I sent you a friend request.
Respectfully disagree, here.
PvE is not inherently difficult, yet there are multiple, very cool looking curses for anyone to go out and obtain. Some are more of just a grind than anything else, really. I don't have any issue with the Ghost and Skeleton curses being locked behind PvP, as it finally gives something very meaningful for PvP players to strive for, after Arena's closure. If you see someone with a Ghost or Skeleton curse, they're either really good at the game, and have something to show for it, or they're hackers lol.
Point being, I don't see any issue with PvP players getting something unique, and if players want the curses bad enough, they'll hone their skills and earn it like the rest of us. Heck, I'm only around 30 in each faction, and it's definitely a grind, but will be all the more worthwhile, once I finally earn it.
@lassidagreat said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Getting a curse should be an obtainable goal, achievable in a few play sessions. Those few sessions should be a showcase of why playing after obtaining the curse is worth it
Unfortunately I must disagree. I feel like something worth it requires effort. To get the gold hoarder curse, you must fully complete all the original 9 Tall Tales commendations completely. You can’t complete that in a few sessions unless you cheat using the checkpoints.
I agree that the PvP curses are difficult to achieve and they should be easier to obtain but they shouldn’t be given in a few sessions. If you do, it devalues the curses
@theblackbellamy said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
But it is unfortunate, imo, that these cosmetics were made so exclusive.
I'm fairly certain it was designed this way to get the larger end of the playerbase to engage with the content.
It's just... I think that while their approach meant well and satisfied the arena refugees that made newer players quit easily (as what happened in Season 6 and 7, pretty much 60% of SoT in 2022 for that matter), it's just so... insubstantial of a content update for the falsely advertised portion of the playerbase that only like doing voyages and fighting easy-to-kill PvE.
For what it's worth, it's good that there is a grind behind it, but it is brutal. Most we can do is just say "win more of your battles if you want the curses so badly". It ain't a good solution, but it's really the only one Rare is going to stick to, especially since their intended methods of leveling up have stayed the same for 3 months now.
@valor-omega said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:
Respectfully disagree, here.
PvE is not inherently difficult, yet there are multiple, very cool looking curses for anyone to go out and obtain. Some are more of just a grind than anything else, really. I don't have any issue with the Ghost and Skeleton curses being locked behind PvP, as it finally gives something very meaningful for PvP players to strive for, after Arena's closure. If you see someone with a Ghost or Skeleton curse, they're either really good at the game, and have something to show for it, or they're hackers lol.
Point being, I don't see any issue with PvP players getting something unique, and if players want the curses bad enough, they'll hone their skills and earn it like the rest of us. Heck, I'm only around 30 in each faction, and it's definitely a grind, but will be all the more worthwhile, once I finally earn it.
Ok, but, it's not... Loss farmers already have both curses so it's not a PVP player exclusive cosmetic. It's a PVP exclusive cosmetic, which admittedly is a small and nuanced difference. Any player can and have already earned it. So let's lose the pretense that this cosmetic is for PVP'ers because, it's not. It's for anyone who is willing to invest the time to get it. And unless you're independently wealthy, a troglodyte in mommy and daddy's basement, or a professional content creator, the time commitment to get these is just way too high.
I don't know if I'm a casual or committed player; I play Sea of Thieves most nights but only for 1-4 hours. I guess it makes sense that it would take me 2-4 times longer to get the curses than a content creator. But I would really expect to have earned them before the next season's new content is released. I don't know what they're releasing in S9 (not an insider), but it looks like I'm just gonna ignore it to keep grinding on these curses. I think that's a huge disservice to the team that is working so hard to release S9.
Honestly, as a PvE player myself I think it's fair to the PvP players to give them exclusive rewards as well. The Talltales that are so interesting to us may be incredibly boring to them cuz they rather play PvP so I don't see anything wrong with giving them a proper reward for their hard efforts in battles. I should also mention, Reapers are specifically a PvP based faction in it's core, so the skelly curse makes sense to be locked behind them through PvP
Available on:
WE ACQUIRED the NEW ATHENA CURSE!