Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels

  • Arch iDeall
    Marauder

    The mode is designed to work around 50% win rate. Now look at the streamers. Do you see all those streaks? From where are those comming from? Yes. Someone has to lose for them to win. So the situation is that the great pvp players hog all the wins while average and bellow average players are left with sometimes not even pity reward. The curse rate is usually somewhere around 200 - 250 wins. Wins give 8x more progression (+ hourglass, + emissary flags + streaks) so for a player to get it through losing that's 1600 - 2000 lost battles. If you fight generous 4 battles an hour, that's 400 - 500 hours. With good matchmaking time and throwing games maybe you can get to 10 battles per an hour. 160-200 hours of mindless losing - and you have to do it twice! Don't even think about the rewards above 100.

    Grind in Season 8 is the most player unfriendly progression Rare has done by far. It's not designed to be fun and rewarding. It's the peak unrewarding frustration SoT can offer.

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @arch-ideall Yeah, I have to agree. Also time can be different on how fast you get a match while underwater, if you decide to resupply or not, how stubborn can be the enemy and keep their ship afloat if you are close to a victory.

    Please Rare, consider this: Letters of recommendation, 5 levels for 250 blue doubloons each month. That would be a good boost to progress, and it would not directly replace the game mode unless someone wants to spend near 2 years to get the curses with letters only.

  • Mouse N Keybord
    Castaway

    @sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    Only 80 hrs? I've got 100+ hrs on just pvp and got 20 wins so far... i'm only lvl 21. if it took only 100 hrs to get the base curse I don't think anyone would be complaining.

    100+ hours and only level 21 with only 20 wins? The math isn't mathing here. Even just losing you gain 560 XP. Unless you're counting sitting under water on a bugged queue. Which would be kinda your own doing for sitting there for so long or your region is dead.

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    I think they tend to exaggerate a little. Mouse N Keybord actually experienced 100 levels as a lower-level user as he repeatedly lost. It's true that Season 8 is very difficult, That's why I think it's enough to reduce the experience required for levels 1 to 100 by 30 percent or change the conditions for entering a new hideout to about 50 levels. The actual battle alone takes about 80 to 100 hours of play time, which reduces to about 56 to 70 hours. If that happens, you can get it within a month. Or I think you can give a base ghost and skull curse at level 50. Because other cool custom options are available at level 100 or higher anyway. There are things that you can get from simple achievements, but they're not very cool the time of lifting simple achievements, Athena only provides a recolored set of pirate legends, and the skull curse only provides simple cosmetic, such as red or burning bones, and iron bars. Something like a really cool Mysterious Stranger outfit or a skull coat or bucket head or lobster skull requires 100 levels up to 170 levels. So I think it's okay to release the basic curse at a lower level

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    대체 텍스트
    Wearing a skull curse or a ghost curse alone in a ship is not very pleasant. I want my friends to get it at a lower level and have a skull pirate concept and have fun playing. Like this picture

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    And there are not many rewards from level 1 to 100. There's only one type of figurehead. In addition, it is only given once every 20 levels. By comparison, from 100 to 200, a new reward is given for every 10 levels. What this means is that there is a high risk of derailment in the game because entry users at levels 1-100 are so hard, and after levels 100, In the long run, there's enough reward to invest more time in the game. In general, you need to distribute the losses to many new users over the wins that high-ranked users will take. We need to create a pyramid of triangles, and now these game designs reduce the number of sub-users that need to be distributed the most. For other factions, the final level is level 75 and constant rewards are given at short intervals to reach. It's permanent and it's not a PvP system, so there's no risk of not being able to play because the population has decreased. But this on-demand PvP is desperately in need of population numbers.

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @fretfulelk45403 I agree with everything you just said, and in addition to this some commendations want require to have the curse on yourself, there are a few that require you to do that with a teammate who also has the curse, and one commendation where your adversary has to have the opposite curse.

  • Mewds D Jolly
    Ship Mate

    @mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    @sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    Only 80 hrs? I've got 100+ hrs on just pvp and got 20 wins so far... i'm only lvl 21. if it took only 100 hrs to get the base curse I don't think anyone would be complaining.

    100+ hours and only level 21 with only 20 wins? The math isn't mathing here. Even just losing you gain 560 XP. Unless you're counting sitting under water on a bugged queue. Which would be kinda your own doing for sitting there for so long or your region is dead.

    I would also toss in that he might have got sunk due to the enemy sailing him out of bounds a couple of times as well. (you get no xp if your ship sails out of bounds in case the reader of this comment in the future didn't know about this)

  • Mouse N Keybord
    Castaway

    @mewds-d-jolly said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    @mouse-n-keybord said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    @sir-sniffils said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    Only 80 hrs? I've got 100+ hrs on just pvp and got 20 wins so far... i'm only lvl 21. if it took only 100 hrs to get the base curse I don't think anyone would be complaining.

    100+ hours and only level 21 with only 20 wins? The math isn't mathing here. Even just losing you gain 560 XP. Unless you're counting sitting under water on a bugged queue. Which would be kinda your own doing for sitting there for so long or your region is dead.

    I would also toss in that he might have got sunk due to the enemy sailing him out of bounds a couple of times as well. (you get no xp if your ship sails out of bounds in case the reader of this comment in the future didn't know about this)

    That would be an insane amount of times to be driven out each match practically. Even losing at 40+ hours you should be at least at level 30 on the extreme low and level 50ish on the average according to my data I was able to get basically giving away free wins for 560 XP per. But level 20 at 100+ hours!? ....no way unless he is scuttles over and over gaining nothing.

    That would mean he would be sailed out over 100+ times, lost the other half or won a tiny bit. I'd love to see his rep page cause that sounds weird how he's losing so much and not gaining in over 100+ hours.

  • Slashclaw547
    Sailor

    That would be an insane amount of times to be driven out each match practically. Even losing at 40+ hours you should be at least at level 30 on the extreme low and level 50ish on the average according to my data I was able to get basically giving away free wins for 560 XP per. But level 20 at 100+ hours!? ....no way unless he is scuttles over and over gaining nothing.

    That would mean he would be sailed out over 100+ times, lost the other half or won a tiny bit. I'd love to see his rep page cause that sounds weird how he's losing so much and not gaining in over 100+ hours.

    I can't say for sure how many times i've been driven out of the circle, but over the last few weeks of trying to do PVP it feels like ever 1 in 3 games someone tries to board and drive me out because they are better at boarding then at navel, i only hit rank 16 last night with 15 ships sunk and given the SBMM seems to be designed to keep the winners winning and the losers on suicide watch i wouldn't doubt after 100 straight hours of better crews and terrible match making you will lose more EXP then you get

  • urgedsniper0009
    Ship Mate

    In the season of giving updates we are getting more levels not sure how much But I hope it helps And I hope they keep it for a while But the only problem is it's near Christmas how many people are going to be on Christmas lol

  • Mouse N Keybord
    Castaway

    @slashclaw547 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    That would be an insane amount of times to be driven out each match practically. Even losing at 40+ hours you should be at least at level 30 on the extreme low and level 50ish on the average according to my data I was able to get basically giving away free wins for 560 XP per. But level 20 at 100+ hours!? ....no way unless he is scuttles over and over gaining nothing.

    That would mean he would be sailed out over 100+ times, lost the other half or won a tiny bit. I'd love to see his rep page cause that sounds weird how he's losing so much and not gaining in over 100+ hours.

    I can't say for sure how many times i've been driven out of the circle, but over the last few weeks of trying to do PVP it feels like ever 1 in 3 games someone tries to board and drive me out because they are better at boarding then at navel, i only hit rank 16 last night with 15 ships sunk and given the SBMM seems to be designed to keep the winners winning and the losers on suicide watch i wouldn't doubt after 100 straight hours of better crews and terrible match making you will lose more EXP then you get

    See that sounds on par. At the start 1 win = a level and a loss is a quarter. While later levels taper off and 1 win is about a quarter and 7.5 losses = 1 win. Taking about 30ish losses for a level or 4 wins.

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    @mewds-d-jolly
    I think that should be patched too. It is not very honorable to scuttle a ship by driving it out of the circle. I don't think the winner should be given any experience points, as the losers are not allowed even the minimum amount of experience points. And I think even if you do this, the users of the top rank are going to try to be coaxed so that the bottom users don't get anything. Because they like very wrong behavior in the first place.

  • Mewds D Jolly
    Ship Mate

    @fretfulelk45403 I agree with you that it feels very toxic to sail someone's ship out of bounds knowing that you're denying them even the small amount of loss xp that they can get from this battle towards the gargantuan grind ahead of them.

  • urgedsniper0009
    Ship Mate

    @mewds-d-jolly The only option that we can do to stop that is if we have the power to pull up the ladders so they don't get on our ships They will have to get a deck shot in order to get on our ships

  • Mewds D Jolly
    Ship Mate

    @urgedsniper0009 they can get a kill from the ladder, or the sea then launch them selves to get on your ship while you're getting back from the ferry of the damned, these guys can be VERY persistent.

  • Mewds D Jolly
    Ship Mate

    @urgedsniper0009 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    @mewds-d-jolly The only option that we can do to stop that is if we have the power to pull up the ladders so they don't get on our ships They will have to get a deck shot in order to get on our ships

    Oh and this also reminds me that there was this one time that I bumped into this guy that can shoot him self perfectly on my ship and not only that, he anchored my ship and kept double tapping me with his double guns for like 10 mins straight, I couldn't kill him once at all, his weapon switching speed was inhumane, and honestly he forced me to scuttle my ship just to move on after spawn camping me for a while, not sure if that guy was a cheater or just a toxic Arena refugee that had to compensate in the game the lack of what he has IRL

  • urgedsniper0009
    Ship Mate

    @mewds-d-jolly Well there is one idea they could do for theat as soon as you get in the arena the ladders go up and you can't fire yourselves out of a cannon Until there arena battle is over And anybody that comes in fight Has the same thing happened to them That could make it into a navy Battle Instead So people will actually learn how to operate a ship instead of trying to board people instead Because it's Suppose to be a ship to ship battle not a land battle Like in the old See dog days

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    Yes, in general, the top users exploit this. And persistent sub-users learn this and do this to themselves and to the same sub-users. It's a very bad method for the system, but I use it as a tactic while learning this. Because there are no restrictions. And since they get euphoria from doing this, they will repeat it just for fun, even if they don't get any experience points at all. In fact, I saw a new user wearing nothing but a basic cutlery throwing himself over and over again just to get on top of my ship without shooting a cannon at all. The reason they repeat these actions is because the ship was taken away by a superior user and forced to sink outside the circle. And he's repeating to others what he's been subjected to. This is really not good.

  • urgedsniper0009
    Ship Mate

    @fretfulelk45403 When I was just playing today we had One person with the ghost curse and 1 normal person and he had this other guy on board from somewhere The woman with the ghost curse was a cheater the other 2 guys kind of not good We had no chance against this cheetah so we just let them sink us but the cheetah won't let us sink That is basically bullying I reported her for it Because this woman was telephoning here there and everywhere And she somehow was faster than us I tried to defend but she was too fast for me And she Went right through me How ridiculous are these cheats People will do anything to cheat Or exploit. If I had my own gaming company I won't have exploits or cheetahs

  • E3pos
    Master
    Insider

    If anything, I would like to see base curses be harder to obtain than they are now.

  • FretfulElk45403
    Marauder
    Insider

    @papatankers2041
    In fact, I heard that 100-1000 levels have become more difficult.

  • Da German420
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    sot lost me here , idk if i will play it again, this gamemode is so boring n when i sweat n get 3 time winstreak but losing the next match i lose all my gold just to get back gathering n buying supplies to wait 10 minutes for a new match n losing again its time to close the game ,its a bit silly invest so much time with a mode that is fun for 3 rounds , just to show how skilled i am with a curse,for me its long enough to reach rank 100 n people wanna have longer grinds behind 100 ,honestly whats wrong with you guys?

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    Yeah, the grind to 100 seem to be insane for some of us. We have to invest a lot of hours into losses or try to get better into a mode that we don't enjoy. We are talking about the base curse, the base ones. I don't think they should be the end game goal, or the ultimate trophy, for that the golden ones should be enough. With the base curses being necessary to do commendations and keep unlocking stuff I think they should be the beginning, not the end game.
    Pirate Legend was considered by some players to be a status of elite, when the Pirate Lord says in game that the journey is not over, if anything it is just the beginning. Maybe the curses should be the same, a moderately difficult journey that everyone can achieve but it marks the beginning of something greater.
    I don't enjoy this journey, and I tried to fight before but I never felt I progressed at a reasonable rate. So I decided to start losing fast and move to the next battle. If someone says "Then the curses are not for you" that would be against what the song of season 7 says: "Everyone is welcome in this game".

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    I mean, they should be late-mid game curses though, yes?

    This curse is supposed to be the blessing of your faction bestowed upon you by the leader of that faction. Maiden voyage swabbies shouldn't have these because they're not Reaper 75/Pirate Legend. Look at the stats, most players aren't even pirate legend. And while I agree that the level 100+ rewards are the "late game" rewards, these curses should be a reward for veterans of the Battle for the Sea of Thieves. What we're arguing about is how easy/hard should it be to earn and the definition of "verteran".

    I think the problem here really is that the people grinding right now are already 75/75/75/75/50/30 or close to it. And on top of being in the late-mid/late game the grind is still challenging for us. Maybe it should be easier for those of us who have been playing for years....

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @dragotech123 said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    Yeah, the grind to 100 seem to be insane for some of us. We have to invest a lot of hours into losses or try to get better into a mode that we don't enjoy. We are talking about the base curse, the base ones. I don't think they should be the end game goal, or the ultimate trophy, for that the golden ones should be enough. With the base curses being necessary to do commendations and keep unlocking stuff I think they should be the beginning, not the end game.
    Pirate Legend was considered by some players to be a status of elite, when the Pirate Lord says in game that the journey is not over, if anything it is just the beginning. Maybe the curses should be the same, a moderately difficult journey that everyone can achieve but it marks the beginning of something greater.
    I don't enjoy this journey, and I tried to fight before but I never felt I progressed at a reasonable rate. So I decided to start losing fast and move to the next battle. If someone says "Then the curses are not for you" that would be against what the song of season 7 says: "Everyone is welcome in this game".

    Everyone is welcome in Sea of Thieves. Buy if something isn't fun, then don't do it. That just sounds like torture.

  • DaBomb139
    Master
    Insider

    @lordqulex

    An idea I thought of to help benefit us who have been playing forever AND still make it a grind is what if you get a slight allegiance multiplier depending on your level within the main faction?

    Meaning if I’m a level 1 in RB I could PVP my way to the top, but if I’m struggling one thing I can do is start to level up my RB. That way those who have already put in the grind to max their factions get more benefit from the update. Now it shouldn’t be like “if you are 75 you get a 75% allegiance boost” but something to give players a little motivation.

    Let’s say after a long day of grinding SoF I am not motivated to keep going because of loss after loss. Well, I need to level up reapers in order to access the new areas, so why not level that up a little bit, and then I get an allegiance boost next time I fight because I have a higher standing with RB?

    That way if people are saying it takes too long to get the base curses, then if they max out their faction (which as some know is quite a grind for AF and admittedly easier for reapers but still a grind) then you get a benefit for putting in that work.

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    @dabomb139

    I think the same-faction battles that they just announced will make a huge difference, but that's coming early 2023. I'm sad that we will then lose out on emissary bonus selling enemy flags, but it sounds like they have good ideas to shorten queue time coming soon and that's a step in the right direction.

    I've always said that I don't mind losing, I mind losing 1) after an obscenely long queue time or 2) by getting intentionally driven out of the boarder, thus negating any allegiance gain. As long as those two things are fixed I'll be a happy camper.

  • Slashclaw547
    Sailor

    @lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    I mean, they should be late-mid game curses though, yes?

    This curse is supposed to be the blessing of your faction bestowed upon you by the leader of that faction. Maiden voyage swabbies shouldn't have these because they're not Reaper 75/Pirate Legend. Look at the stats, most players aren't even pirate legend. And while I agree that the level 100+ rewards are the "late game" rewards, these curses should be a reward for veterans of the Battle for the Sea of Thieves. What we're arguing about is how easy/hard should it be to earn and the definition of "verteran".

    I think the problem here really is that the people grinding right now are already 75/75/75/75/50/30 or close to it. And on top of being in the late-mid/late game the grind is still challenging for us. Maybe it should be easier for those of us who have been playing for years....

    you are right just like how if i start a new account right now the ashen curse is locked behind rank 75 reaper....no wait
    i mean how the Gold curse is rewarded to you for rank 75 Gold Hoarder....no wait
    i mean how the Order cure is rewarded to you for rank 75 Order of souls.... no wait
    i mean how the Curse of Sunken Sorrow is rewarded to you for Rank 50 Hunter's call... no wait
    must be nice to have been playing this game for so long you get to say something is "these curses should be a reward for veterans", meanwhile all it takes to get every other curse is a copy of the game and a guidebook, it's still hard to believe one updated has devalued all other curses to nothing because someone though the two most requested curses should be PVP only

  • LordQulex
    Captain

    @slashclaw547

    Fair. I think it suffices to say that an army walks on its bellies, and reconnaissance is important, spies are important, et cetera. There is a lot more to war than the battles and the fact that you can only gets these via battle is a design choice, not a reality.

  • Slashclaw547
    Sailor

    @lordqulex that sure sounds like someone who's not very often on the losing end of a battle Because they only did Arena and PVP to rank up their factions rather then doing Tall tales and voyages

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @slashclaw547 dijo en Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    @lordqulex said in Make it EASIER to GET BASE CURSE or MORE WAYS to get ALLEGIANCE levels:

    I mean, they should be late-mid game curses though, yes?

    This curse is supposed to be the blessing of your faction bestowed upon you by the leader of that faction. Maiden voyage swabbies shouldn't have these because they're not Reaper 75/Pirate Legend. Look at the stats, most players aren't even pirate legend. And while I agree that the level 100+ rewards are the "late game" rewards, these curses should be a reward for veterans of the Battle for the Sea of Thieves. What we're arguing about is how easy/hard should it be to earn and the definition of "verteran".

    I think the problem here really is that the people grinding right now are already 75/75/75/75/50/30 or close to it. And on top of being in the late-mid/late game the grind is still challenging for us. Maybe it should be easier for those of us who have been playing for years....

    you are right just like how if i start a new account right now the ashen curse is locked behind rank 75 reaper....no wait
    i mean how the Gold curse is rewarded to you for rank 75 Gold Hoarder....no wait
    i mean how the Order cure is rewarded to you for rank 75 Order of souls.... no wait
    i mean how the Curse of Sunken Sorrow is rewarded to you for Rank 50 Hunter's call... no wait
    must be nice to have been playing this game for so long you get to say something is "these curses should be a reward for veterans", meanwhile all it takes to get every other curse is a copy of the game and a guidebook, it's still hard to believe one updated has devalued all other curses to nothing because someone though the two most requested curses should be PVP only

    Yes, I agree. And guidebooks and videos explain the fastest shortcuts, the journal locations and how to cheese certain fights.

    I am just curious about why you relate the Sunken Sorrow curse to the Hunter's Call. I don't find a connection as strong as the other factions to the curse. Not arguing, just asking.

  • Slashclaw547
    Sailor

    @dragotech123 because it's the closest faction to a Siren based curse, Merchant's Alliance doesn't fit, Athena now has a Ghost curse to mock people who can't PVP, Sovereigns are not a faction and the Bilge rats don't really have a rep to grind, so i went with the Hunters call since it was all that was left

  • Landonfirewing
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @dragotech123
    How many consistent losses do you think it will take to hit 100 in either faction? I consistently sink 3 times a day, sometimes I get lucky with randoms and get a win, I'm genuinely curious what number of sinks.

  • Dragotech123
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @Slashclaw547 Yeah, makes sense. The are looking for fish and the curse is fish-folk like so it is the closest.

    @Landonfirewing I have no idea, but I started to use a method from Mouse N Keyboard to let others sink my ship, and it seems it is the best option for now since a long battle will award the same xp as a short one, and I'm not confident in my PvP skills. I tried a lot before giving up, I sunk like 4 or 5 times for a full level the first levels after fighting as much as I could. But from now on I'm going to keep a track on the PvP milestones of my logbook and check how many battles it takes for a level. I'm curious just like you, so I'll try to see how many losses would take to get to 100.

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