People struggling with match making already.
PVP allegiance should be greater no doubt.
If PVP allegiance is rabbit , PVE should be at least a tortoise. Right now, it's a snail.
If we get 20 mins matchmaking on day 2 , I assume that it will only increase as we move to later seasons.
Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?
It is possible one might be able to argue that the wait times for Defender/Passive play in the new system might not equate to the bonus that the Loot stacking for this style nets you. It should be equally appealing both ways, from an Allegiance gain potential standpoint. Alternately the cool down period for the Defender/Passive style might be lowered if we don't want the bonus tweaked. Maybe both are needed, since people have been noting that the wait times to find fights have been getting bigger - maybe we are holding Defenders up too long and also not providing them enough incentive to play that way.
Granted, some might see it as fine the way it is, but I would be curious as to how the community is feeling generally on the matter. It is pretty critical that both sides of the coin are appealing options for everyone so that we get a nice mix of things going on and keep production moving along.
@mage741 if you have a grade V loot haul on board your ship and then get invaded and win the gain is actually pretty big, so as long as you hoard loot its fine. (risk v Reward)
if you dont hoard... well not that much gain
If I have a grade v haul and no one is invading me while I am working my way to grade 5 , I feel like I deserve allegiance I would have gotten if I had won the PVP fight.
@mage741 but you don't, though. The Allegiance is rewarded for the PvP specifically. If you did not engage in PvP then what you are entitled to is the money you make from cashing out your Loot at Grade V. Yes, you opted in, but you didn't get the PvP.
Thus why I noted maybe the Multiplier needs to be more powerful if those opting to be Defenders have to wait so long (assuming the balance isn't there already for this, I have not done much Defender so far to tell). Otherwise maybe the cooldown needs to be lower so you get the PvP in a faster timeframe so you have a better chance to earn that Allegiance while stacking your Loot.
Either way, the Allegiance is what you get for PvP, Coin and Reputation with a Faction is what you get for Loot. Having Loot while you PvP can give you a bonus for likely having to wait longer than you would if you went the Attacker route to compensate. But if you don't PvP then all you have is your Coin and Reputation. If you're running an Emissary and ranking that up you get that bonus to the Coin and Reputation.
@mage741 no because your loot was never put at risk, and thus your reward is the gold for selling.
If it would work the way you would envision alliance servers would have grinded it out to 1000 in mere days.
It would be detrimental to the pvp focused update if you could increase it with doing ove only, fewer people would dive and try too matchmake, which means fewer people would get invaded on and the whole feature would die out
I’m sure if they wanted too. Add more define pve element without removing the pvp
- Athena/Reaper: Talk to mysterious strange or Masked stranger for a single X map, the destination is always very far and you only get this voyage by hourglass activation. As you travel you can still be invaded and if you turn off the hourglass voyage ends. The X will be any high value item or just a new crate made for the faction. Once dug up. New location, find bell or Agent of the flame. They will spawn in a new island far away, more sailing. Now you have loot on board to defend or be stolen.
if your lucky, maybe nobody will invade you and you can turn in some pve loot for some exp?
Or defend and increase value?
Idk shooting spit balls here@mage741 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
If I have a grade v haul and no one is invading me while I am working my way to grade 5 , I feel like I deserve allegiance I would have gotten if I had won the PVP fight.
No, you didn't fight or defend against anyone. The entire purpose of the system is to pvp. If you don't do that you don't get the rewards plain and simple.
@burnbacon this sounds like it would be cheesed by alliance servers super hard. At least right now even if people are making bait lobbies we have been sinking them which forces them to hard reset and wastes a tone of time.
Like the fact you need to pvp to get the rewards. Would not be opposed to maybe making it a bit easier especially for higher mmr where we are now hitting 30 min queues.
@nitroxien said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@burnbacon this sounds like it would be cheesed by alliance servers super hard. At least right now even if people are making bait lobbies we have been sinking them which forces them to hard reset and wastes a tone of time.
Like the fact you need to pvp to get the rewards. Would not be opposed to maybe making it a bit easier especially for higher mmr where we are now hitting 30 min queues.
Really? Lobbies are being made to cheese the PVP side of things and bait 1v1 into like a 2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1?!
Who would have thought?
Laughs in Insiders
We knew this was going to be a problem and Rare went ahead anyways...@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@mage741 no because your loot was never put at risk, and thus your reward is the gold for selling.
If it would work the way you would envision alliance servers would have grinded it out to 1000 in mere days.
It would be detrimental to the pvp focused update if you could increase it with doing ove only, fewer people would dive and try too matchmake, which means fewer people would get invaded on and the whole feature would die out
Lovin the grog-filled fear mongering of Alliance servers from you.
Its always the same with you "But Alliance Servers"Get over it. Its been years. Alliance servers are a thing. They grinded out gold, commendations, everything.
Big freakin.. deal dude..Alliance servers are even cheesing the PVP side of this update ganging up on unsuspecting ships prepared to do a .. 1v1 .. battle.
You do realize you can form an alliance while having the hourglass on, you do know this, right?..
So if you can get a whole server together, then everyone goes passive.. then kill all invading ships... easy peasy.
Heck there are people cheesing the TT going to shores of gold already waiting in the Red sea and getting people to quit their matches for easy wins..Lol but here you keep going into threads worried about the 'cheese' that people have already exploited and have been doing for years in this game..
Alliance servers are not going anywhere bud..
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@mage741 no because your loot was never put at risk, and thus your reward is the gold for selling.
If it would work the way you would envision alliance servers would have grinded it out to 1000 in mere days.
It would be detrimental to the pvp focused update if you could increase it with doing ove only, fewer people would dive and try too matchmake, which means fewer people would get invaded on and the whole feature would die out
Lovin the grog-filled fear mongering of Alliance servers from you.
Its always the same with you "But Alliance Servers"Get over it. Its been years. Alliance servers are a thing. They grinded out gold, commendations, everything.
Big freakin.. deal dude..No fear mongering but the truth, dont make this personal now…
Alliance servers are even cheesing the PVP side of this update ganging up on unsuspecting ships prepared to do a .. 1v1 .. battle.\
Yes they can BUT they still need to get into ovp, and of even one of their ships sink… guess what gone alliance server
You do realize you can form an alliance while having the hourglass on, you do know this, right?..
Yes i do know, its still a sandbox game and all and stop trying to be condescending
So if you can get a whole server together, then everyone goes passive.. then kill all invading ships... easy peasy.
Again, one of their ships sink gone is the lockdown, because instant server merge so most coordinated alliance servers will think twice to risk this. Since for them losing the lock down on a server costs alot of time and effort to set it back up again.
And another thing is, 9/10 players in those coordinated alliance servers will sink within 5 minutes of coming into contact with an enemy vessel.
Heck there are people cheesing the TT going to shores of gold already waiting in the Red sea and getting people to quit their matches for easy wins..
Yep known issue and being looked into and i guess since its actually an exploit since you cant normally vote on that tall tale when you have opted in to the hour glass or vice versa i guess it might even be a bannable offense
Lol but here you keep going into threads worried about the 'cheese' that people have already exploited and have been doing for years in this game..
Am i? I do on some occasions when i see stuff that doesn’t match with the general view of the game that the devs themselves have put out there
Alliance servers are not going anywhere bud..
I am well aware and not saying they should go away but since they are a thing when the devs are working on stuff like this you can be sure that either them or a part of the community point out the flaws in some of the systems
They noticed what went wrong after they introduced the reapers bones faction that while being a pvp focused faction the pve gain was extreme (hence most alliance servers being filled with reaper v’s)
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?
Cause all I see from you is whining/crying constantly about alliance servers.. when they already exist and killing invading ships 1 at a time...And at least if they tried to cheese the mechanic to PvE and not try to PVP.. players can invade an alliance server. Isn't that what you want in the end? Lol so its a win-win imo..
A slow passive reward as loot accumulates is a good idea for the game.I actually think they should do this, and that they should make it more profitable gold wise, and add an incentive for people to do it with the standard emissary factions as well (not just reaper/athena). It would mean more people opening themselves to invasions.
I know people have views on how you should only be able to progress through the PvP system through PvP but the thing is in order to do this you still need to open yourself up to invasions, which means more people in the matchmaking pool and more longevity for the gamemode (assuming they ever fix/remove the SBMM)
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?Not all elements in a pvevp or pvpve game have to offer both sides of the coin.
Where is the pvp element in almost any adventure, where is the pvp element in tall tales.
You cant pvp your way into completing them just as much as you cant pve your way into completing the new factions
Cause all I see from you is whining/crying constantly about alliance servers.. when they already exist and killing invading ships 1 at a time...
It seems to be the only thing you notice from me, i have added much to these forums over the years, since before its release if that seems to be what only stands out about my comments here then that is on you not me.
And at least if they tried to cheese the mechanic to PvE and not try to PVP.. players can invade an alliance server. Isn't that what you want in the end? Lol so its a win-win imo..
A slow passive reward as loot accumulates is a good idea for the game.There could always be some new faction/mechanic that adds this i would not be against it, i have (for instance) always been a strong proponent to loot becoming more valuable the longer it is on board (emmisary somewhat does this)
However this specific update/featureset is not that time or place
Over the years most updates have catered more to the pve side of things then the other way around and now one specific update drops that is pvp only (the first real one since arena dropped in 2019 might i add) and there is whining that there is no pve only way to grind this….
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?Not all elements in a pvevp or pvpve game have to offer both sides of the coin.
So you support PvE only servers? Whats the difference for years of arguing against such things when you just come out and say... na na we can have PvP only things...
No. Its a PvEvP sandbox game. This mode can include more PvE to it, like I said, to add incentives and add to rewards after someone wins..
And what do you call Arena? That was a PvP only addition before. Just like this one that you're harping about.
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?Not all elements in a pvevp or pvpve game have to offer both sides of the coin.
So you support PvE only servers? Whats the difference for years of arguing against such things when you just come out and say... na na we can have PvP only things...
You are trying to strawman things here, being against pve only servers is not the same as being against a pve only update (an update that adds only a pve element)
Likewise with this updateNo. Its a PvEvP sandbox game. This mode can include more PvE to it, like I said, to add incentives and add to rewards after someone wins..
And by definition of the update it has a pve element, if you have loot on board you can opt in to defend it from pvp, if you successfully defend it you get a boost in allegiance to the faction you opted in for.
It doesnt need more pve then that, not for this uodate
And what do you call Arena? That was a PvP only addition before. Just like this one that you're harping about.
Which i referenced and which show me you only respond to half of my comments, and now trying to use it as a strawman argument when i said that was the other pvp update (which got added along side with a full on tall tale campaign so it was far from pvp only that time) and its a strawman because it was added almost 4! Years ago
So in the games (almost) 5 year life span it has a whopping 2 pvp focused additions inbetween the plethora of pve only and pvevp updates and almost 4 years apart.
I am a pvpve or pvevp gamer for this game by heart i indulge in both and enjoy both.
And after multiple polls across multiple platforms this update is generally loved by all sides of the pve and pve argument.
And I would agree that the PvE only content additions like Adventures or Tall Tales (though they can be nice) go against the vision of a PvEvP sandbox game.
Whats your point?And woopdie doo people enjoy the content.. thats not an arguement... I can show you pages of bugs and problems that give people reasons not enjoy this update...
The only thing youre arguing is Alliance servers because thats all you can say about it. But it isn't a problem. And with on demand PvP.. alliance servers are now under threat with this mode if they did so.. But you don't see that.
On another note about your 'Alliance Server Cheesing'... whos to say they are not flagging for Passive PvE, and swapping Reapers/Athena and getting rep that way? Is that possible? I think so, cause you can have two opposing ships in a server without actively looking for a battle...
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
And I would agree that the PvE only content additions like Adventures or Tall Tales (though they can be nice) go against the vision of a PvEvP sandbox game.
Whats your point?Thats the thing it doesnt, As pvevp/pvpve game you are not mandated to add only featuresets that always cater to both infact if you would do that it would HIGHLY limit whatever you can do and would increase development time exponentially for each and every feature
As a pvevp/pvpve game you just have to keep an overarching balance and add features that add to the overall view. Sometimes that is pve only, sometimes its pvp only and sometimes its both at the same time.
And woopdie doo people enjoy the content.. thats not an arguement... I can show you pages of bugs and problems that give people reasons not enjoy this update...
Another strawman argument, yes there are bugs, yes there are problems and they will be fixed, this has nothing to do with the genral idea/vision behind the update/featureset.
The only thing youre arguing is Alliance servers because thats all you can say about it. But it isn't a problem. And with on demand PvP.. alliance servers are now under threat with this mode if they did so.. But you don't see that.
No that wasnt my argument it was an example, same as i used reapers bones as an example and the case that it is being used by alliance servers as a gold/rep booster instead of its original intent by the devs as the opposition to the other emmisaries in a hunter/hunted kind of way.
And if you look a little further this actually adds somethingelse for the olayers that dont want to pvp, more piece of mind since more of the attacking forces are not hunting them (as long as they dont vote on the hourglass)
Also it allows players that were too affraid to get into pvp a way to dip their toes in without much effort, vote, dive and learn
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
On another note about your 'Alliance Server Cheesing'... whos to say they are not flagging for Passive PvE, and swapping Reapers/Athena and getting rep that way? Is that possible? I think so, cause you can have two opposing ships in a server without actively looking for a battle...
That would be stupid of them tho. When a ship that activated its hourglass sink (even to PvE threat) is immediately merged out of the server, making it open to outsider. That's the reason PvE Alliance servers forbid the use of this feature.
Since the only way they can gain Allegeance is by sinking another boat, win trading wouldn't work.
Buddy look up what a Strawman arguement is..
And I basically replied to your fluff piece of 'oh the polls.. people love this update'
So you used a strawman yourself? Lol...
@grog-minto said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
On another note about your 'Alliance Server Cheesing'... whos to say they are not flagging for Passive PvE, and swapping Reapers/Athena and getting rep that way? Is that possible? I think so, cause you can have two opposing ships in a server without actively looking for a battle...
That would be stupid of them tho. When a ship that activated its hourglass sink (even to PvE threat) is immediately merged out of the server, making it open to outsider. That's the reason PvE Alliance servers forbid the use of this feature.
Since the only way they can gain Allegeance is by sinking another boat, win trading wouldn't work.
A losing ship in a battle (triggered by the MMR system) and creating a circle... yes that would be correct.
But normal Passive mode hourglass on a server with no circle, does it kick you out?
If no, then theres a potential for a lot of cheesing, I think..
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
@grog-minto said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
On another note about your 'Alliance Server Cheesing'... whos to say they are not flagging for Passive PvE, and swapping Reapers/Athena and getting rep that way? Is that possible? I think so, cause you can have two opposing ships in a server without actively looking for a battle...
That would be stupid of them tho. When a ship that activated its hourglass sink (even to PvE threat) is immediately merged out of the server, making it open to outsider. That's the reason PvE Alliance servers forbid the use of this feature.
Since the only way they can gain Allegeance is by sinking another boat, win trading wouldn't work.
A losing ship in a battle (triggered by the MMR system) and creating a circle... yes that would be correct.
But normal Passive mode hourglass on a server with no circle, does it kick you out?
If no, then theres a potential for a lot of cheesing, I think..
It does kick you out.
Any sink, even to PvE with no other crews around merges you out and breaks your streak.
Source : I sunk to a kraken after a fight while I didn't have much supplies left.@grog-minto said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
@grog-minto said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 a dit dans Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain? :
On another note about your 'Alliance Server Cheesing'... whos to say they are not flagging for Passive PvE, and swapping Reapers/Athena and getting rep that way? Is that possible? I think so, cause you can have two opposing ships in a server without actively looking for a battle...
That would be stupid of them tho. When a ship that activated its hourglass sink (even to PvE threat) is immediately merged out of the server, making it open to outsider. That's the reason PvE Alliance servers forbid the use of this feature.
Since the only way they can gain Allegeance is by sinking another boat, win trading wouldn't work.
A losing ship in a battle (triggered by the MMR system) and creating a circle... yes that would be correct.
But normal Passive mode hourglass on a server with no circle, does it kick you out?
If no, then theres a potential for a lot of cheesing, I think..
It does kick you out.
Any sink, even to PvE with no other crews around merges you out and breaks your streak.
Source : I sunk to a kraken after a fight while I didn't have much supplies left.Okay then to farm Allegiance, they can have ships not opt into the system and keep farming Reaper or Athena flags.. then sell them with the hourglass up.. that works too..
See how easy it is to figure out the cheese for this game?
So, Alliance servers.. null and void for arguing in this matter. You can cheese it without any pvp necessary.
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?
Cause all I see from you is whining/crying constantly about alliance servers.. when they already exist and killing invading ships 1 at a time...And at least if they tried to cheese the mechanic to PvE and not try to PVP.. players can invade an alliance server. Isn't that what you want in the end? Lol so its a win-win imo..
A slow passive reward as loot accumulates is a good idea for the game.As i have stated in one of our previous debates, having a pvp centered update doesnt mean it isnt pvpve. This pvp update has a mechanic that boosts rep the more loot you have on board, which relies on pve.
Imagine that same argument in reverse, imagine if they added the gold vaults and people said "they are just adding pve content, but the game is pvpve!", that doesnt make much sense, does it? pvpve does not mean all content has to be accessable by pve just as well as pvp, it simply means that pve and pvp are tied together, and with this update they are still tied together.
@goldsmen said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@lord-spark-0 said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
@callmebackdraft said in Can we increase the PVE allegiance gain?:
Now they added a PVP centric update and made sure that PVP was required to gain progress in the new factions.
Its simple, want to progress in these factions and get access to all the new shiny cosmetics, good then get into battle and fight for it.
Its a PvEvP game. Not a PvP game..
Wheres the 'PvE'vP element to this mode?
Cause all I see from you is whining/crying constantly about alliance servers.. when they already exist and killing invading ships 1 at a time...And at least if they tried to cheese the mechanic to PvE and not try to PVP.. players can invade an alliance server. Isn't that what you want in the end? Lol so its a win-win imo..
A slow passive reward as loot accumulates is a good idea for the game.As i have stated in one of our previous debates, having a pvp centered update doesnt mean it isnt pvpve. This pvp update has a mechanic that boosts rep the more loot you have on board, which relies on pve.
Only IF you get a match.
I just did a solo sloop 3-4 hour adventure. Got to Grade 5 hourglass. Had 3 athenas. 2 LOTV's completed. I only had 2 matches..
1 right away out of the outpost.
1 after the first LOTV...So again, it depends on the system... which shouldn't be the case. If someone is risking their ship at any time, they should be rewarded..\
And that argument about vaults isn't a thing.. because thats PvE in the open map that anyone can come and steal...
With this mechanic.. you risk your loot with zero chance of getting it back on a loss..So again, it depends on the system... which shouldn't be the case. If someone is risking their ship at any time, they should be rewarded..\
Which you are by gold AND reputation in all the other factions for which you sold the loot to.
If you played it smart you could even use the won battles to boost your athena emmisary to get an extra grade V voyage since two ships sunk is grade v emmisary
So dont tell me you weren’t rewarded maybe not the way you personally like to be.
@callmebackdraft Yes but you have to waste your time grinding PvE to risk losing everything as where an invader just clicks que and is fighting in 5 minutes with nothing to lose but supplies. The PvPers can gain massive money from streaks and their ques are shorter while defenders have what a 30 min wait period before they can be invaded because the intent is that they are out grinding PvE to level their hourglass for the defense bonus. It's only been a week and this modes already getting stale for some.
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