PVP Server Alliance Exploit

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@goldsmen said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@lem0n-curry said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@goldsmen said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

A couple issues will come from this strategy, 1, it will keep boosting their mmr until they find an enemy that they cant deal with, and leave them with a high mmr, and it will take people forever to gain rep that way since only 1 invading ship can pop up per server to my understanding.

But they will be invaded quicker as they have four potential targets. Instead of waiting 20 or so minutes for the next one after they sink the one that invaded ship #1, there could be a ship invading #2 in just a few.

As well, the other day when a reaper came after me, then got invaded by some one else, we both fought, and only the person who invaded got any rep, i got nothing from it other than aim practice.

That seems to be how it's supposed to work, perhaps OP saw it wrong ?

They might get invaded quicker, but im pretty sure it does only give rep to the 2 paired up, which means you are waiting for it to be your turn each time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's how it works. I watched Phuzzybond yesterday get rep for helping another brig sink an invading Reaper. The Reaper wasn't matched to Phuzzy and he still got credit for the sink. I wonder if it has to do with participation in the fight, like when you help another crew finish an event, meg, kraken, fort, etc.

When i fought some one that got invaded by some one else, i got no rep, so i think it boils down to who they are paired to, but it could be like ancient skeles where the person who hit them last is who gets rewarded. Either case would be only be 1 person getting rep.

@metal-ravage said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

One way to solve this issue is to pit only one ship against another by making use of the battle zone. Only two ship can enter this area, any excessive vessel should be warned to leave that circle or sink (like an invert red sea to prevent ambush)

They specific stated they want people to get 3rd partied though, so this would go against their wishes for the game. Do I personally like the way they made it, no. But it isn’t my game, so I only get to decide whether I take part or not.

This was always going to happen and we've known it would happen for a long time. Unfortunately it never got fixed and its now in Live game like this. Hopefully the issue is large enough that Rare figures out a fix. I Imagine this will only ever get fixed if some big streamer loses their massive streak to this, because they'll likely cry on twitter which seems to be the only way to get a response from Rare. Blurbs tweeted one time and got multiple Rare responses and they immediately put his suggestion in game.

Not rewarding other Ships isn't the way to go as that completely removes the incentive for natural combat between factioned ships, you would only ever care to fight your specific target.

For one they should remove Alliancing as Factioned so theres no Cross Crew reviving.

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@goldsmen said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@lem0n-curry said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@goldsmen said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

A couple issues will come from this strategy, 1, it will keep boosting their mmr until they find an enemy that they cant deal with, and leave them with a high mmr, and it will take people forever to gain rep that way since only 1 invading ship can pop up per server to my understanding.

But they will be invaded quicker as they have four potential targets. Instead of waiting 20 or so minutes for the next one after they sink the one that invaded ship #1, there could be a ship invading #2 in just a few.

As well, the other day when a reaper came after me, then got invaded by some one else, we both fought, and only the person who invaded got any rep, i got nothing from it other than aim practice.

That seems to be how it's supposed to work, perhaps OP saw it wrong ?

They might get invaded quicker, but im pretty sure it does only give rep to the 2 paired up, which means you are waiting for it to be your turn each time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's how it works. I watched Phuzzybond yesterday get rep for helping another brig sink an invading Reaper. The Reaper wasn't matched to Phuzzy and he still got credit for the sink. I wonder if it has to do with participation in the fight, like when you help another crew finish an event, meg, kraken, fort, etc.

I sank a reaper champion brig I saw on the map with the help of an athena brig that invaded them in the middle of our battle.

We both got the reputation and the hourglass value.

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@mrat13 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

Pretty certain this mechanic follows the "tools not rules" philosophy. Same as server hopping Reapers greifing Tall Tale ships to get some sort of kick out of it. Rare won't do anything to stop it, because "tools not rules". And now maybe PvPers will understand where PvEers have been coming from...

The two situations are not the same. One is a natural part of the game and the other is a flat out exploit.

Since Rare is ok with outside interference it is a natural part of the game...

@pithyrumble said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@mrat13 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

Pretty certain this mechanic follows the "tools not rules" philosophy. Same as server hopping Reapers greifing Tall Tale ships to get some sort of kick out of it. Rare won't do anything to stop it, because "tools not rules". And now maybe PvPers will understand where PvEers have been coming from...

The two situations are not the same. One is a natural part of the game and the other is a flat out exploit.

Since Rare is ok with outside interference it is a natural part of the game...

I appreciate your opinion, but we'll respectfully agree to disagree. Organic outside interference is natural and perfectly fine for this type of encounter. I have no problem with that kind of situation, but I do have a problem with planned server alliances baiting ships into a trap. Just because something is natural, doesn't make it right. Spawn camping is natural, but it's still frowned upon in the community and can get you banned. Players coordinating server alliances to exploit a game mechanic is borderline cheating and should be ban worthy. If Rare is willing to ban spawn campers, then this situation definitely deserves the same treatment.

Just brainstorming solutions here... Make the rep only count for the matched crews and disable alliance flags when crews have allegiance to a faction. This more than likely won't stop people from coordinating server alliances, but it will make it less lucrative for them. You'll still have multiple crews working together to help fight the individual invader ship.

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

Just brainstorming solutions here... Make the rep only count for the matched crews and disable alliance flags when crews have allegiance to a faction. This more than likely won't stop people from coordinating server alliances, but it will make it less lucrative for them. You'll still have multiple crews working together to help fight the individual invader ship.

The main problem with finding a fair solution to this is keeping it from impacting other valid interactions. Like only giving rep to the crew you were matched with would mean no one could naturally 3rd party and get credit for their work. If someone 3rd partied both of you, sunk both of you, they wouldn’t get any rep for their work.

I think a fair solution would be to not allow alliance flags while in a faction, but that won’t stop people from alliance through words. Just means a flag won’t be raised. So won’t really solve the problem in the end. If they plan to tag team, they are gonna tag team. I don’t think there’s much they can do programming wise to stop it. I think best can be done is make an official statement to discourage it.

@artie said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@nighthawk32

@nighthawk32 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@jester1027 yeah I think I agree with you. Experience towards the faction should just be for the ships that got paired up.

Absolutely not, as then there'd be no point for Champions ships to be marked. If you are a Sevrant.. your job is to sink every Guardian ship you see.. and vice versa... Whether that ship comes up from below the sea.. or one you just stumble upon... it's doesn't matter... Sink them if they are the rival... with whatever help you can recruit. If you can't find a rival ship... Dive and the game will find one for you.

Common guys.. This is SOT.. Use the tools the game gets you and create your own stories.

Indeed... now the PVPers get to find out what resource management and adventuring is all about.. Maybe they will check the horizon a bit more often. No more scuttling at the start of Arena and be handed resources on spawn.

No, I disagree. I think you missed the point of the thread. Server alliances targeting a single ship is not an adventure, it's an exploit. I have no issue with ships of the same faction targeting Champions and getting rep for defeating them. The problem is that Rare has implemented sbmm for 1 on 1 combat. When you create a server alliance it throws all of that out the window. If server alliances are going to be allowed for this type of encounter, then get rid of sbmm.

This isn't an attack on you or your post, so please don't take offense. I don't understand why people have a tendency to think PvPers have no clue about adventure. Us PvPers love adventure just as much as PvEers. We just love ship and player combat a bit more. I'm sure there are some out there that skip the PvE stuff, but I'm not one of them. I've killed the Shrouded and got the t-shirt. I have the title, Legend of the Sea of Thieves (500 skelly ships) and I could go on and on about my commendations and achievements. Don't assume us PvPers have no clue what adventure is all about.

@artie said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:
the Shrouded and got the t-shirt. I have the title, Legend of the Sea of Thieves (500 skelly ships) and I could go on and on about my commendations and achievements. Don't assume us PvPers have no clue what adventure is all about.

500 skelly ships is not super hard. especially when you can get credit when it wasn't even your boat which participated in the kill.

It still requires a large amount of time to get. I never said it was super hard to get. It was more to illustrate the point that I'm not inexperienced in adventure.

@artie said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@nighthawk32

Using a feature of the game is not an exploit. Boats are ALLOWED to team in SOT. Just as a PVP boat is allowed to sink a crew just wanting to do a tall tale and yield zero benefit for the attacker other that streamer content or LOLs.

silent boarding and using unintended behaviors which were not intended are exploits.

That's big I DISAGREE. Exploiting a 1v1 match making system in order to get wins IS an exploit. You can try and defend your server alliances all you want, but it IS a form of exploiting the game in order to get a desired outcome. Just because you use in game tools doesn't make it right. Nobody is saying that alliances are bad, but intentionally luring single ships to a 3 or 4v1 situation is garbage and you know it deep down. You say that you can just server hop or leave, but it impacts the invaders streak and gives the exploiters the win. Essentially, there is no upside for the invading ship and nothing but advantages for the server alliance. How is that fair gameplay? You defend it, because you probably take part in this style of play.

@artie said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:

@jester1027 said in PVP Server Alliance Exploit:
You defend it, because you probably take part in this style of play.

It appears you've also become easily distracted to the response to the issue in the original point that only matchmade boats get rep and need to resort to personal attacks.

I made the original post, so I know what the thread is about. I wasn't trying to attack you personally and if it came across that way, I apologize. I made an assumption based on your responses. You seem to be defending this style of play, so it leads me to think you partake in server alliances. I could be wrong though.

You can't get upset with comments if you're going to make personal attacks yourself. You just made a comment attacking @NightHawk32.
Artie
Commander
InsiderFounder

@nighthawk32

"Yeah, your the typical person who complains that players who paid the same amount for the game as you...."

We got hammered by 2 reaper brigs waiting when we invaded. I agree it’s not a great time when one of the other ships doesn’t have a circle to play in or the fact 6 v 3. Lots of exploits seem to be going around.

@volta-sos the problem I see is I have to stay in a small circle one of those other ships don’t. I’ll fight 2 boats but I NEED room to reset and can’t do it in a small lil circle against a sloop and a larger ship. It different if it happened in adventure as we would have the entire map to fight. I think if another boat gets involved they should get map limited and I get more space in the circle. If I pick a solo sloop then invade and invite someone the would have to stay on the ferry until the fight was over as to not completely outmatch crews every time. It’s quite similar. I don’t mind fighting more ships IF I know they are there but invading and seeing an alliance coming at you is kinda OP.

@artie but it’s not PVP in adventure…. It’s opt in pvp with another OPT IN SHIP. I didn’t opt into a tiny circle v 4 ships 3 of which don’t have to mind the circle. I LOVE finding a server alliance via portal hop as I can reset and bail if need be. It’s like if an mma match had 3 other fighters come in on the side of 1 dude but they could leave the cage. It’s an exploit that need some attention wether make the circle larger, delete the circle or make other ships have to stay in it as well.