I mean, it can't be that hard, right? It's got to take more effort to /remove hours of dev time than to not do that, right? I mean, removing it makes it objectively worse. Just remove the cosmetic after 2 weeks. At least make it a month. Come on! Don't shoot yourself in the foot, rare! Just don't remove herald of the flame after 2 weeks. All I ask.
make herald of the flame a tall tale
Part of me hopes that these time-sensitive story progressions prove to be a failure and that they start making them a permanent fixture for the community. Then, maybe they could put their efforts into making good time-limited events again.
The other part of me doesn't care because I'm not convinced they could actually go back to events and make them any good.
Meh.
@sweetsandman said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
Part of me hopes that these time-sensitive story progressions prove to be a failure and that they start making them a permanent fixture for the community. Then, maybe they could put their efforts into making good time-limited events again.
The other part of me doesn't care because I'm not convinced they could actually go back to events and make them any good.
Meh.
Sure seems like a tremendous amount of time and effort to release things that range from eh feedback to dramafest with some positive feedback lightly sprinkled around
but we never really know the numbers we just generally see the feedback.
When they wanna do something they will stick with it, from a creative perspective I respect it, I think people should stick with what they want to create, from a gaming/environmental/experience perspective, eh
Creatively I'd personally rather be indifferent about something than them be miserable about what they do while trying to please people.
@wolfmanbush Agreed.
These things are right in Rare's wheelhouse from a marketing perspective. FOMO content that they can do Cinematic story driven trailers for? Yeah, not surprised that we got to this point.
I just wonder if (or more likely when) it will run its course and what will replace it... And then all this story content (and dev work) will either have to be lost in time or made available for on-demand consumption.
I like adventures, it's a great way to progress the story faster and without as much work as a tall tale.
It works to introduce more Ancients, bring cool battle with merrick, But important chapters like the return of Stitcher Jim and a plot directly involving flameheart should be developed more carefully in a tall tale.
I hope Rare finds a balance.
@lleorb said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
I like adventures, it's a great way to progress the story faster and without as much work as a tall tale.
It works to introduce more Ancients, bring cool battle with merrick, But important chapters like the return of Stitcher Jim and a plot directly involving flameheart should be developed more carefully in a tall tale.
I hope Rare finds a balance.
it could always lead to a tall tale as well
get people back into the lore with with a lil teaser, get 'em excited again and wanting more and then release a full on tale after
which really could be a darn good way to lead up to tall tales being released imo
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
If they make it a tall tale, that will cement the areas that are used in it to the general state they are currently in, meaning if they have plans for future adventures going through the same areas, then they would have to change their plans
With that logic, why is Briggsy not always in the game? Because she gets spawned when the tall tales are activated. Why does the shroud not always shrink like during Lords of the Sea? Because it shrinks when the tall tale is activated.
@boeing7876500 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
If they make it a tall tale, that will cement the areas that are used in it to the general state they are currently in, meaning if they have plans for future adventures going through the same areas, then they would have to change their plans
With that logic, why is Briggsy not always in the game? Because she gets spawned when the tall tales are activated. Why does the shroud not always shrink like during Lords of the Sea? Because it shrinks when the tall tale is activated.
Thats not how that works, they arnt locked in the state of the tall tale constantly, the areas are locked in their state to keep the tall tales working, if you look at the shroudbreaker quest, because it relies on a set list of possible vaults, they cant change those vaults, they are permanently fixed.
Any drastic change to those vaults, destroying them, turning them into something more, or anything of the likes, and suddenly it messes up the tall tale, thus... the vaults are cemented in their current state.
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@boeing7876500 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
If they make it a tall tale, that will cement the areas that are used in it to the general state they are currently in, meaning if they have plans for future adventures going through the same areas, then they would have to change their plans
With that logic, why is Briggsy not always in the game? Because she gets spawned when the tall tales are activated. Why does the shroud not always shrink like during Lords of the Sea? Because it shrinks when the tall tale is activated.
Thats not how that works, they arnt locked in the state of the tall tale constantly, the areas are locked in their state to keep the tall tales working, if you look at the shroudbreaker quest, because it relies on a set list of possible vaults, they cant change those vaults, they are permanently fixed.
Any drastic change to those vaults, destroying them, turning them into something more, or anything of the likes, and suddenly it messes up the tall tale, thus... the vaults are cemented in their current state.
Hmm...
I swear I remember the vaults in the shroudbreaker for another use...
I just can't remember it...
I dunno...It would be really cool if they used a vault for a gold haorder mission which you have to find pieces of the map which show you where the key to the vault is. Then you could open the vault and get loot inside. You could even do a puzzle like in the shroudbreaker to get a special chest.
@boeing7876500 His point still stands, you couldn't do the entire Golden Sands arc as a Tall Tale, at least without it being instanced which removes the entire shared world sandbox story telling thing this game is going for.
If any Tall Tale were to completely drastically change an existing environment in the way the adventures did with Golden Sands then that location would have to remain like that for the rest of this games lifespan so that the Tall Tale could remain replayable. Meaning no real meaningful developments can happen over time in the world.
Adventures definitely need a lot of work to reach the potential they have and not all of the adventures have done a great job of proving themselves worthy of being time limited and there absolutely needs to be an in game and engaging way to catch up on Adventures but making the Adventures permanent is not at all an option.
It's the same reason The Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, everything that happened with Duke overtime, and Reapers Hideout being slowly built overtime can't be permanent replayable Tales in game
While I agree with people saying making this a tall tale will limit creativity...
The adventure post literally says this is the continuation of the "Heart Of Fire" arc.
I would not have a problem if this was just a normal story mission but they spesifically say that it is the continuation of an already existing arc.
So they are making the last (?) part of the arc time limited while keeping the first 2...
@thorumsu That I can understand, finally getting a proper continuation to Heart of Fire but it being time limited I can totally see and understand being frustrating and annoying!
Not just that. All adventures should be tall tales. They added milestones to go do what like 100 tall tales? We already had to do 45 to get our gold curse and they know if we have the gold curse that we did indeed complete it 45 times but like with everything else captaincy 0 respect paid to our past progress.
They are spending hundreds of hours of development time and money making temporary 2 week adventures just to throw it all away after the fact... None of these adventures count toward milestones. Yet if they were all added as tall tales then it would not only be creating permanent content but also give us stuff to work on, when we want to.
Herald of the Flame is a continuation of the Seabound Soul and Heart of Fire tall tales.... If we aren't going to continue this story as a tall tale then maybe just delete seabound soul and heart of fire since you guys love deleting your hard work so much? That may have come off in text a little harsher than I mean for it to sound but its a legitimate argument. You have tall tales which are starting a story that future players will never be able to take part in the conclusion of due to this extreme FOMO design. You already have seasons and community days and twitch drops how much FOMO does this game need?
@magus104 Please lay out exactly how the entire Golden Sands adventure arc would work as permanent Tall Tales. Please explain how that at all would be possible or functional.
Criticism against Adventures are always the same two things. "They are all recycled garbage" or " They spend so much time and money from other things to work on time limited stories". Which is it?
@peony7185 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@magus104 Please lay out exactly how the entire Golden Sands adventure arc would work as permanent Tall Tales. Please explain how that at all would be possible or functional.
Criticism against Adventures are always the same two things. "They are all recycled garbage" or " They spend so much time and money from other things to work on time limited stories". Which is it?
It's always going to be one of the two, or the combination of them.
The gist of the matter is that 1: most of us cannot handle change, or at least, certain developments that are uncomfortable to us, and 2: They sadly have a point.
Heart of Fire (before APL) was the last tall tale that kicked off the remainder of the Ashen Age plotline. It started with Seabound Soul, which led to Heart of Fire, then the appearance of Ghost fleets, and then the rituals of Ashen Winds, like a few other things happening in the background, to the attack on Golden Sands (which caused Flameheart's Ghost fleets to disappear due to going into hiding), the imprisonment of the GS residents post-attack, grabbing the Veil of the Ancients, saving (or destroying) Golden Sands, waking up the Great Warrior, and now what appears to be, the real followup on Heart of Fire.
Herald of the Flame, a 2 week time limited event that only players who have been staying attached to the game since March 2020 can really only keep up with, are going to be interested in what's going on. This isn't an event to welcome in new players to the game's lore, this is basically doing what some veterans want for once, and it's done in a way that they have to be online between two weeks to see the long-awaited followup instead of being bored out of their minds chasing a Reaper all across the map while they fail boards and scream to leave them alone. Like, I dunno, this followup is great, but such a bad way to approach a followup to something that we haven't seen a proper full followup from for 2 and a half years since it was released and relevant.
@nex-stargaze Oh don't get me wrong, I get that the genuine follow up to lore from 2 years ago being in a two week time limited adventure is frustrating I get it, it makes sense to be a bit annoyed with that.
I just don't agree with this sentiment that Adventures should or even could be just made into permanent Tall Tales, they just can't.
I do agree this particular Adventure does feel like it could fit in nicely with the TT's as it does say its a continuation of the Heart Of Fire story.
What would be great would be the chance to have these adventures put into the game as TTs but don't have the time limited cosmetics or titles from when it was live available again, but have another cosmetic and/or curses to collect. That way, new and old players can experience the story themselves (possibly again) and have an incentive to complete them.
@peony7185 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
I just don't agree with this sentiment that Adventures should or even could be just made into permanent Tall Tales, they just can't.
Some very well can.
Siren's Prize is a heavily shortened version of the "Legend of the Sunken Kingdom" voyage. Forts of the Forgotten, Forsaken Hunter, and even A Hunter's Cry can be tall tales, as their relevance to the main world is so ineffective, that you could have redone these at any time and gain similar lore that people under the original time limit had gained under their pressured play sessions.
Shrouded Islands, Shrouded Deep and Lost Sands are events based on situations taking place at the time, as all of the shrouded islands are no longer shrouded, and Merrick is gone from the Sea of Thieves.
If Herald of the Flame involves a world-altering event, then it would be understandable as a time limited event. Otherwise, this could be heavily criticized as "could have been for a tall tale instead".
@nex-stargaze Again like I already said earlier I agree that not all have been great examples of this or have used the Adventure format to its potential but at the same time making most of these Adventures permanent replayable Tall Tales could easily limit the changes the game could make to previously used locations in the future and cause bloat and issues the game otherwise wouldn't have to deal with with time limited Adventures. There's a reason why pretty much every new Tall Tale has used entirely new locations.
Not to mention making something like, for example, Forts of the Forgotten permanent would be entirely silly giving it's a very small chunk in the middle of a story that can't be replayable, it'd be entirely useless to keep in the game. I can agree with Forsaken Hunter and especially Hunters Cry though. That was my personal biggest criticism against them, Hunters Cry didn't seem thought out in any capacity to me.
But yeah some of the Adventures not really feeling like they've earned that timed exclusivity regardless of it being better for the game is definitely a criticism that I can agree with. I do believe all Adventures should hinge on some sort of noticable world change wether it's massive or small. As, well, that's kinda the whole point of these things.
@peony7185 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@magus104 Please lay out exactly how the entire Golden Sands adventure arc would work as permanent Tall Tales. Please explain how that at all would be possible or functional.
Criticism against Adventures are always the same two things. "They are all recycled garbage" or " They spend so much time and money from other things to work on time limited stories". Which is it?
Where in my post did I say anything about making any other adventure a tall tale?
@boeing7876500 Did you happen to notice I was replying to someone else in this thread in that quote?
@peony7185 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@boeing7876500 Did you happen to notice I was replying to someone else in this thread in that quote?
...
@boeing7876500 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@boeing7876500 said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
@goldsmen said in make herald of the flame a tall tale:
If they make it a tall tale, that will cement the areas that are used in it to the general state they are currently in, meaning if they have plans for future adventures going through the same areas, then they would have to change their plans
With that logic, why is Briggsy not always in the game? Because she gets spawned when the tall tales are activated. Why does the shroud not always shrink like during Lords of the Sea? Because it shrinks when the tall tale is activated.
Thats not how that works, they arnt locked in the state of the tall tale constantly, the areas are locked in their state to keep the tall tales working, if you look at the shroudbreaker quest, because it relies on a set list of possible vaults, they cant change those vaults, they are permanently fixed.
Any drastic change to those vaults, destroying them, turning them into something more, or anything of the likes, and suddenly it messes up the tall tale, thus... the vaults are cemented in their current state.
Hmm...
I swear I remember the vaults in the shroudbreaker for another use...
I just can't remember it...
I dunno...It would be really cool if they used a vault for a gold haorder mission which you have to find pieces of the map which show you where the key to the vault is. Then you could open the vault and get loot inside. You could even do a puzzle like in the shroudbreaker to get a special chest.
They have another use, yes, but that use does not rely on physically changing the vaults, filling the vaults with gold physically changes nothing about them... Why the condescension?
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