Veil quest and fort can be despawned

@super87ghost said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

You need to adjust your tactics then. Either sneak on the main fort while they are destroying it and tuck there, or wait untill they defeated it before you come in.

And it is not silly if you ask me. The loot is not theirs untill they hand it in, but the voyage is. The loot is only given out to the world when the voyage is completed.

'normally' as pirate also wouldn't know where to get the loot without a treasure map (voyage). There is normally no giant tornado to signal where to go, so without the voyage you wouldn't even know where te find loot.

SoT is not that realistic, but the voyage (and cancelation) is trying to mimic that a bit. The giant tornado is not only for the story, but also to lure in some possible PvP. But if you don't be smart about it, you might be able to sink them, but you won't get any loot.

I don't know why this forum has such an obsession with telling people they need to play different or be better. This post has nothing to do with the tornado.

The Legend of the Veil allows you to despawn the loot if you aren't going to get it yourself. OP is right, the loot should stay a while after cancellation.

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

The Legend of the Veil allows you to despawn the loot if you aren't going to get it yourself. OP is right, the loot should stay a while after cancellation.

That's not accurate. The loot isn't accessible until after the final fortress is taken down. You aren't despawning loot, you are despawning an active fortress. If someone cancels a "Lost Shipment" voyage can you still raid that ship for its goods? No.

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

The Legend of the Veil allows you to despawn the loot if you aren't going to get it yourself. OP is right, the loot should stay a while after cancellation.

All voyages cancel loot if they are cancelled before being completed. The ones that don't are open to exploitation (see: Shipwreck Graveyards) and get disabled or changed. This isn't an issue specific to the Legend of the Veil, it's how all voyages work.

It doesn't matter if its how all voyages work. That point is literally mute. Unlike a shipwreck, the veil spawns a server wide visual notification to attract other players. The shipwreck should also stay a while after cancellation. The problem with the shipwreck was the ship despawned and the loot floated to the surface. This shouldn't happen with ANY quest. Both events should stay a while after cancellation and despawn after a timer, taking the loot with them at that point.

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

Both events should stay a while after cancellation and despawn after a timer, taking the loot with them at that point.

But why?

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

It doesn't matter if its how all voyages work. That point is literally mute. Unlike a shipwreck, the veil spawns a server wide visual notification to attract other players. The shipwreck should also stay a while after cancellation. The problem with the shipwreck was the ship despawned and the loot floated to the surface. This shouldn't happen with ANY quest. Both events should stay a while after cancellation and despawn after a timer, taking the loot with them at that point.

It's not a moot point, it's how the game works. They aren't going to modify how player voyages work so that other players can still attempt to complete them after they are cancelled, because that is part of the garbage cleanup.

That is simply not true. It is a moot point as the game gets changed with every patch. Just because its the way something works now does not mean it has to work that way in the future.

If you take that out, it would be insanely easy to start-cancel voyages repeatedly to generate a number of loot points on a single server that could very easily degrade performance or outright crash the server.

There are plenty of other ways around this. Throttle players spamming quests. Send you back to the same event you already spawned. Only keep the spawn if a ship has come within a certain distance of it. Its a program. Programs can do anything.

@super87ghost said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

The Legend of the Veil allows you to despawn the loot if you aren't going to get it yourself. OP is right, the loot should stay a while after cancellation.

All voyages cancel loot if they are cancelled before being completed. The ones that don't are open to exploitation (see: Shipwreck Graveyards) and get disabled or changed. This isn't an issue specific to the Legend of the Veil, it's how all voyages work.

It doesn't matter if its how all voyages work. That point is literally mute. Unlike a shipwreck, the veil spawns a server wide visual notification to attract other players. The shipwreck should also stay a while after cancellation. The problem with the shipwreck was the ship despawned and the loot floated to the surface. This shouldn't happen with ANY quest. Both events should stay a while after cancellation and despawn after a timer, taking the loot with them at that point.

And now you just look like you are just looking for arguments, because the post before this you said it wasn't about the tornado, but now suddenly it is....

The point being the veil summons other players to compete for the treasure unlike the shipwreck. The post is not about the tornado, that reply was in regards to the similarity between shipwrecks and veils, which are two very different things.

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

There are plenty of other ways around this. Throttle players spamming quests. Send you back to the same event you already spawned. Only keep the spawn if a ship has come within a certain distance of it. Its a program. Programs can do anything.

Or just remove everything that was cancelled and then you don't have to worry about potential exploits. Problem solved.

But then you have the problem of players deleting loot from the game when they lose, which is a worse problem.

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

The point being the veil summons other players to compete for the treasure unlike the shipwreck. The post is not about the tornado, that reply was in regards to the similarity between shipwrecks and veils, which are two very different things.

Order of Souls Ghost Fleets do the same thing as the Veil voyage; it's a globally visible "event", and all parts of the voyage and all loot not yet spawned gets removed when it gets cancelled.

No it doesn't. Ghostships floating above water are just more visible than sunken ships. The tornado is designed as an indicator such as the skull above the fort of the damned. Even if it did, just add it to the list.

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@d3adst1ck said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

There are plenty of other ways around this. Throttle players spamming quests. Send you back to the same event you already spawned. Only keep the spawn if a ship has come within a certain distance of it. Its a program. Programs can do anything.

Or just remove everything that was cancelled and then you don't have to worry about potential exploits. Problem solved.

But then you have the problem of players deleting loot from the game when they lose, which is a worse problem.

None of the loot at the garrison exists when it gets cancelled. It only gets spawned when the voyage is completed. The only one that had loot generated before it was finished was the Shipwreck Graveyards, which made them exploitable once the ability to have multiple voyages available via captaincy was introduced.

Fine. Delete the event.

Players should not be able to delete events just because they are contested by other players. The events should remain for a period of time after cancellation.

With the veil in particular, you can't even start the event in question without doing the prerequisites. So the server lag exploit is not even in question.

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

Players should not be able to delete events just because they are contested by other players. The events should remain for a period of time after cancellation.

But WHY?!? You keep saying this as though it is fact, but why?

The whole thing about this game is "it's never your loot until it is sold." That is here as well. You sunk someone's ship prematurely. That doesn't make the loot yours. The person who sunk someone on a Veil voyage has no more right to that loot than anyone. It's not a world event. It is also a lot less visible than a world event, and certainly not a "server-wide beacon". It's not nearly as visible as a giant glowing Skull in the sky. In general I can spot ghost ships at almost the same distance as I can reasonably spot a veil tornado.

Or...or...as a Voyage maybe it can work as a Voyage. Sure it is a more advanced Voyage that can make it easier for people to see what you are up to, like a Ghost Fleet compared to hunting Skeleton Captains, but it isn't a Server Event like the Skeleton Forts or Skeleton Fleet. It is a Voyage, and like all Voyages you have the power to cancel them when you see fit. Do that before it is done and you get rid of the potential Loot, for you and for anyone else, but that is your call cause you spent Gold on it (unlike a Server Event that you opt into for free for the potential of Loot).

So, to steal that, you need to be coordinated. The game is great for offering different ways to approach things. Server Events work just fine with brute force, Voyages require finesse and cunning. Different ways to do stuff, different ways to play. If you want to brute force it, use the gameplay option that exists exactly for that style. Don't request something that exists as a different optional playstyle to be changed and taken away so you can have it for your style. If anything, suggest something new with a similar flare to it so you can have a brute force option for it (or raid someone at a Sea Fort, those are kind of in the vein of this, and are open to brute force).

@tenriak can't say I agree. Sure. Sure. My opinion is meaningless. That's fine.
I'll state this. If they cancel the Voyage, all assets pertaining to said Voyage should go away too. Unless you want another Veil Shipwreck exploit again...

I find it funny that because the easier it is to find loot to steal, the more complaints there are about people unable to steal it their own way.

I want to say having a world event-type of voyage is a genuine flaw in design geared towards introducing a new element to the game loop. Though, at the same token, it's the newest event of its type. Goodness knows if there are more voyages set up to be treated like world events.

Just like the original Athena voyages in the game that were terrible in comparison to Legend of the Veil, you have to approach this voyage in a way you're not comfortable in, because while I can't say most of the playerbase are cunning fighters, they play their voyages out in the safest ways possible. Sometimes they're willing to throw away the possibility a chest people so desperately want to steal in order to not sink, and you're bet your damn skippy people will dip from a server if you attack them before the loot from the garrison spawns.

This doesn't seem like it will be changed, so you're going to have to think about how you play vs how the opposing crew(s) could play. LotV might be the most fun Chest of Legends you will be obtaining voyage-wise, but it certainly isn't the easiest to steal (if the crew is at minimum, an experienced solo slooper).

When you go and steal a veil fort from someone they can lower the quest and then the fort becomes inactive.

And?

I know it is a quest that can be lowered and raised but it seems a bit silly that they can deny you the loot you beat them for.

So your saying it a Problem to prevent people from loot you yourself didnt do any work to gather?
hahaha, sounds like a pity cry to someone who doesn't think outside the box.

• Wait til they finish
• Load there ship
• Surprise them as they get ready to sail away.

@scurvywoof said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

It’s not always about speed and power, regardless of what Jeremy Clarkson says

Blasphemy!

@maximusarael020 said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

@tenriak said in Veil quest and fort can be despawned:

Players should not be able to delete events just because they are contested by other players. The events should remain for a period of time after cancellation.

But WHY?!? You keep saying this as though it is fact, but why?

The whole thing about this game is "it's never your loot until it is sold." That is here as well. You sunk someone's ship prematurely. That doesn't make the loot yours. The person who sunk someone on a Veil voyage has no more right to that loot than anyone. It's not a world event. It is also a lot less visible than a world event, and certainly not a "server-wide beacon". It's not nearly as visible as a giant glowing Skull in the sky. In general I can spot ghost ships at almost the same distance as I can reasonably spot a veil tornado.

Because the voyage literally baited you there by advertising itself in the sky. Because the gameloop is designed around fighting for treasure. Because players should not be able to despawn loot when they lose.

@captainmorgn566 then find something else to steal. There is a lot of opportunity to steal Loot of all varieties in the game. Don't like what you need to do to actually get this one, find something else.

@captainmorgn566 if you aren't willing to take a more tactical approach, yes. Instead go hit up a Fort, Fleet, FotD (or start it yourself and let fights come to you). Those can't be cancelled, cause they aren't Voyages. Those are the beacons you're looking for if you want to use brute force. Stealing a Voyage has always been a thing that needs to be more planned, cause until they have the Loot there is no Loot there - and the Loot on this doesn't even exist until the end fight is over. So if you go early, and they decide they are done, that is on you not them. There was never Loot there to begin with, so they didn't despawn any Loot. They just decided to never spawn it to begin with because you scared them off.

You chose to attack a Ship without Loot because it wasn't done actually getting the Loot to exist, and now are mad they didn't have the Loot you wanted and they didn't feel like sticking around. The tornado is meant to get your attention so you know an opportunity exists, if you play your cards right, not that there is for sure Loot there (in fact, if it is still up, there assuredly isn't really Loot there yet).

Again, there are other things in the game that allow for the brute force approach. You choosing not to do them is a you problem, not a game problem.