Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.

  • Sea of Thieves is a good game. There is a ton about it that I love. I think it's some of the best cooperative experiences I have ever had in an online game. As the game has grown I have enjoyed much of the new content, and I really love to do tall tales, working with others, and sharing knowledge with crewmates both known and randomly met.

    I also really love the atmosphere and setting. It's really colorful and vibrant. All the NPCs are cartoony and interesting, and the storylines even when they get dark have a jolly, swashbuckling, good-versus-evil tone that I love. Everything about the game seems really welcoming and about building comradery and helping each other against the odds.

    All this said, I will never suggest this game to a single person. The amount of tools a player has to show friendship and cooperation on the seas is basically nil. The player base is incredibly confrontational, which I have been informed in the past is part of the dev's vision for how they want interactions between players. I understand until recently there was an arena, and in that arena people who wished to engage in ship to ship combat had an outlet to throw themselves at each other. This has since been closed, and those players are now back in the general populace. I don't know if that has anything to do with how awful my experiences have been, but it seems odd that the devs would close an outlet for people to seek out consensual competition and just have to find an outlet for it in the greater game.

    The confrontational nature of other players seems to even go against the design of other aspects of the game. I recently acquired the sunken curse, which requires you to traverse the map multiple times visiting mermaid dungeons, leaving your ship basically helpless or requiring one of your teammates to babysit it the entire adventure. Though I was able to earn it, and I have attempted it twice since, none of my friends have been able to finish the voyage. We are always sunk while in the depths of a mermaid dungeon. This was bad enough that customer support even refunded me the dubloons on the voyage. I have been jumped and attacked during voyages, tall tales, adventures, and even just wandering around collecting journals. I am not a pacifist, but I refuse to ever strike the first blow. I always send up fireworks when I approach another ship. I will call out and play music. I want to make friends out there. I want to have a good time with others. I really can't blame the community for their reactions, as the trained response to almost every situation seems to be "attack, remove the threat" or just "harass until they quit". I have been chased across a map on an empty ship, and had insults hurled at me for not wanting to react aggressively to people I have never met. This seems to be the general mindset of almost everyone I meet.

    The way players act is so incredibly different than anything the devs have created. If the devs designed any aspect of the environment with the hostility and vitriol that the players show, I doubt this game would be as appealing to me as it is.

    I know the devs will never make a less competitive/PvE mode, and honestly I've given up hopes on the private servers coming out before I am completely burned out. I just really wanted to love this game, but I think I have had enough of the treatment I get in it. I know this means the game, as it stands, is not for me. I just really wish it could be? I would love to be in more alliances. I would love to keep sailing and having fun and interesting interactions, maybe even earn the dozens of commendations related to spending time with people you meet (which are an incredibly poor way to foster togetherness.)

    I guess I am just writing this because I am frustrated. I honestly don't think I can keep playing and I am very sad and disappointed. There are a lot of things I would still like to do, but I really can't take the behavior I meet in this game anymore.

    Calm seas and great rewards to all you pirates.

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  • I hope it works out for the best in the end.

    It's how you feel and what you have experienced so it is what it is. You should be able to express that.

    If you leave, you are always welcome back
    If you stay, I hope sessions improve.
    If you ever want help on something, let me know

  • I don't really understand these posts. I see this game the same way i see something like DayZ, people are hostile until proven otherwise. And even then, they will possibly betray you. With this in the back of my mind, i have a blast and am never disappointed.

    It doesn't mean there haven't been friendly interactions. Most people are wary and when i have co-op experiences, it's because i initiated them by talking to them through the megaphone from my ship. Some respond, some don't. But that's the nature of the game, and if they go hostile, that's just as fine for me as i get to practice my PvP skills.

  • Maybe it is not the kind of game for you or maybe you just need to take a break and come back later. The shadows over the horizons is what makes this game and its pve fun for many, including myself. If you get attack and sink as often as you seem to indicate, maybe you are doing something that entice people to attack you. Do you put on an emissary flag often (like when doing shrines)? Is your loot clearly visible to other players?

  • Just got off a 5 hour playing session. Joined random sloop. New player, got game last week.

    Met a galleon crew. Scared us but they wanted to join our merchant alliance. For remaining time, they acted like our bodyguard and let us do all the voyages and loot gathering.

    Reapers attacked, we sunk them and moved on.

    Met a brig that lost there ship to the Legend of veil quest, we finished it for them and, gave us the chest of legends (new guy never got one before)

    Brig joined our alliance next.
    Spent remaining time doing world events and devils roar.

    All this was random chance and nobody acted out or attacked one another.

    Good things happen. Not everyone are out to sink you for the giggles. You stay with these negative thoughts and believe that all there is, bad players. Of course your gonna encounter them because maybe you are a bad player to them way you act and think.

  • I still can't believe people find ships that want to PvP! The most I've ever found is several Alliance Servers that just started. To be fair though, their toxicity was incredibly funny as me and my friends dominated their 5 ship server...

    Ah, the good days when you could find people... in Oceania only apparently ;(

  • @lafrules said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    Maybe it is not the kind of game for you or maybe you just need to take a break and come back later. The shadows over the horizons is what makes this game and its pve fun for many, including myself. If you get attack and sink as often as you seem to indicate, maybe you are doing something that entice people to attack you. Do you put on an emissary flag often (like when doing shrines)? Is your loot clearly visible to other players?

    People don't need incentive to attack. They don't care about loot they just want to fight and sink lol. I think I can count on one hand how many times someone has actually taken the loot on my ship.

  • @scurvywoof Must be your play hours it's rare for me to go anywhere with out having to fight anyone before I even leave the dock. Typically it's load in the tavern go outside ship being shot up or burned down lol. Usually with some 12 year old screaming insults. :D

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    The player base is incredibly confrontational, which I have been informed in the past is part of the dev's vision for how they want interactions between players.

    This is not entirely true. It would be more accurate to say that they want to encourage interactions between crews. These can be hostile, friendly, both depending on the moment. You have tools to communicate that you are friendly. There are no rules that the other crew has to be friendly in return. Their hostility does not conflict with the game any more than a generous crew would.

    I want to add, if you look through many of the threads created by people angry with PvP you often see something about them losing hours of work to another crew. This usually means they were left alone for hours before another crew engaged them in a fight. This suggests that the game allows for a wide variety of experiences. Some people may just notice the parts they didn’t like, ignoring the amount of time they were solving riddles, completing tasks, etc.

    I understand until recently there was an arena, and in that arena people who wished to engage in ship to ship combat had an outlet to throw themselves at each other. This has since been closed, and those players are now back in the general populace. I don't know if that has anything to do with how awful my experiences have been, but it seems odd that the devs would close an outlet for people to seek out consensual competition and just have to find an outlet for it in the greater game.

    The arena was not a popular game mode. A small percentage of game time among the player base was spent there. It was not worth Rare continuing to support. The impact of arena’s closing on the general game was almost unnoticeable. Why? Because arena accounted for a very small proportion of game time. Arena players would have had to be incredibly good at SoT PvP to have a meaningful impact on the much more popular adventure mode. Some were great. Most were not.

  • @greaves8721
    I don't understand your post. What about this game looks, on the surface, like Day Z? or Rust? Or any of the other highly confrontational games that I avoid? Though I should say that at least those games give players options, like private servers and ability to adjust server settings, that this game doesn't.

    This is sold as fun pirate freedom game. It's not sold as a desperate resource gathering hardcore survival experience.

    I am very happy that you are able to get into a mindset/playstyle that allows you to have fun. I wish the game just accommodated people who are never going to be good at the confrontational aspects between players in some way besides making me just hate every time I see others. I don't like being scared to meet people. I don't want to turn into the people who just attack others with no provocation.

    @lafrules
    I've taken to just playing in the default skin, as I have had people in voice comment rudely on the purchased/earned items I put on my ship before and assumed that was part of why I was being attacked. I get attacked if my lamps are on, or off. I don't do emissary unless someone else I am playing with wants to take on that risk. I've been sunk with literally no loot on my ship as often as when I have loot, and I never stockpile loot and sell quickly so I am never sitting on a lot of lost progress. When I get attacked by someone persistent at this point I just throw whatever I have overboard out of spite and make them chase me off the map. Considering the number of times I have been sunk while still docked at the start of journey I really think it's a bad look to imply I am doing something to make others want to sink me.

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @greaves8721
    I don't understand your post. What about this game looks, on the surface, like Day Z? or Rust? Or any of the other highly confrontational games that I avoid?

    He's right about it being like DayZ though. It had a pretty big influence on the design of the game:

    You're placed into a world with other players, some tools to do with what you like, "needs" that you have (collecting gold, commendations, etc ..) and conflict focal points (e.g. world events, similar to crashed helicopters) which draw players together.

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    I really think it's a bad look to imply I am doing something to make others want to sink me.

    I didn't mean this in a bad way. It's just that sometimes newer players do things that may attract more pvp without them realizing it, like flying the reapers mark or raising an emissary. For me, in about 850 hrs, I can count on one hand the number of times I've been attacked as a fresh spawn at an outpost. So for you to say that you can't count how many times it happened and that you are being attacked all the time everywhere makes me wonder why?

    I've taken to just playing in the default skin, as I have had people in voice comment rudely on the purchased/earned items I put on my ship before and assumed that was part of why I was being attacked.

    Maybe don't stick with the default skin. I know when I was grinding for the gold curse, I was not putting cosmetics on my boat, and I noticed an increase in PVP encounters, mostly from poor to very average players. My guess is that when people want to start learning pvp, they are usually not going to start by attacking the sweaty-looking brig with the NAL sails. They want to practice on an easier and more reasonable target (at least that's how I started), so it is why the default skin appears more dangerous to me if you want to avoid pvp. I think there is a better chance a real sweaty crew will leave you alone if you have no skins, however, the majority of average players will probably do the opposite and look for default skins that appear easy targets.

  • @scurvywoof, Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them. içinde yazdı:

    I still can't believe people find ships that want to PvP! The most I've ever found is several Alliance Servers that just started. To be fair though, their toxicity was incredibly funny as me and my friends dominated their 5 ship server...

    Ah, the good days when you could find people... in Oceania only apparently ;(

    [Mod Edit]

  • @scurvywoof, Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them. içinde yazdı:

    I still can't believe people find ships that want to PvP! The most I've ever found is several Alliance Servers that just started. To be fair though, their toxicity was incredibly funny as me and my friends dominated their 5 ship server...

    Ah, the good days when you could find people... in Oceania only apparently ;(

    Since my last post was rightfully edited, I will say it in a diffrent way. How do you avoid getting mass reported?

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    [...] Considering the number of times I have been sunk while still docked at the start of journey I really think it's a bad look to imply I am doing something to make others want to sink me.

    How long are you spending on the outpost though ? Your other actions (no emissary except in company or not stockpiling) seem to be good for avoiding other crews or at least much treasure when you do get sunk.

    Most of the time you'll be spawned at an outpost with no other ship or crew in sight, while exceptions happen I think they're very rare. If you linger long or stock up "too much", though, there will be other crews that may need the use of the outpost as well or think you're probably full of loot, full of supplies or both.

  • @d3adst1ck
    If this is the case then their marketing people really haven't read that article in the last 4 years. It doesn't sell itself like that. It also doesn't present itself like that in the tutorial/npc interactions.

  • @lem0n-curry
    I do take my time with things. I (used to) like to buy a storage crate, check all the barrels on the island for fireworks, buy my own fireworks if I didn't find enough. I don't raise emissary solo. I know emissary is for people who want to fight.

    I am not fast. I am not skilled. I don't want to be spoonfed but I do want to be able to have fun. I am basically physically incapable of being good at the PvP of this game, and even if I could change that I would not enjoy going around hurting others.

  • @myrilla the game in many ways is akin to Rust and Dayz quite literally all the games involve being in a large open PVPVE world where you gather stuff (weapons, resources, treasure...) from both PVE and PVP encounters. The main difference between the 2 is the longevity of your session with games like Rust and Dayz requiring far more time commitment than SoT does due to all combat related progress getting reset between sessions.

    In Rusts case private and custom servers exist but you can only get achievements in the official servers which I can promise make SoT look friendly in comparison. This would equate when private servers come (still waiting on that to be fair) to permanent rewards (rep, renown, commendations...).

    That being said the biggest advantage Dayz and Rust have with other servers is they have deathmatch and UKN servers respectively to allow players to practice PVP so they don't have to risk it all just to practice. SoT desperately needs this to help close the skill gap between players.

  • As much as its going to annoy folks in here when I say it - sounds to me like you need to find an Alliance Server to play on. Betrayals will still happen from time to time but for the most part you'll be able to sail around and do what you want.

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @lem0n-curry
    I do take my time with things. I (used to) like to buy a storage crate, check all the barrels on the island for fireworks, buy my own fireworks if I didn't find enough. I don't raise emissary solo. I know emissary is for people who want to fight.

    I am not fast. I am not skilled. I don't want to be spoonfed but I do want to be able to have fun. I am basically physically incapable of being good at the PvP of this game, and even if I could change that I would not enjoy going around hurting others.

    I didn't mean you have to race your way across the island - perhaps be more efficient. I generally take 3-4 runs across (almost) all the barrels and then sail away. With putting up the cosmetics onto the ship, I'm on the seas in 5 minutes or so.

    Some people like to wait until the barrels have respawned. I would advice against that.

  • @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    Double for me, and many, many others. It's a shame because, as I've said over and over, it could have been a great game. Instead it's just on GamePass life support.

    People try it out because it's on gamepass

    people don't spend thousands and thousands of hours of their time because it's on gamepass.

    great or not great is subjective but it'll go down as the top gaming experience for many out of all of their experiences. If not the top then the top 2 or 3, ever.

    what else can a game try to achieve? they all come and go but creating a product where many spend a very significant amount of time absorbed in the lore and environment and community is about the best a game could ever do.

    Who knows how many lives where improved by this game being available during a pandemic where it was difficult for people to live their lives as they would prefer. People got to pirate with their friends, meet new friends, find new connections during a time when there was universal struggle and hardship, socially and personally.

    I dunno if it makes it great but I think it easily makes it special and important to many.

  • Thank you for all the insight here. This really was just my last hurrah before I quit, though. I know I am just one player, and that means little in the wider world, but the experiences with this were enough for me to remove the game and drop my gamepass. I explored the forums enough to see the writing on the wall, as it were.

  • @myrilla said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @d3adst1ck
    If this is the case then their marketing people really haven't read that article in the last 4 years. It doesn't sell itself like that. It also doesn't present itself like that in the tutorial/npc interactions.

    Nearly every trailer, including the announcement trailer from 2015, has players killing each other or ships shooting at each other.

  • @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    It is good, but as many have indicated it isn't one you recommend to a friend.

    That's between people and their friends I suppose

    When it comes to an experience that isn't clearly harmful generally or specifically I recommend that my friends try something out without putting my personal feelings into it.

    In my view they are their own person with their own preferences and likes and dislikes. I think they are more qualified to make those decisions by trying things out.

    It's an adventure game, they might like it, they might not. A few sessions will give them enough of a sample to make a decision that they feel is best for them.

  • I am in complete agreement with the original poster of this thread. I understand that the dev's wanted some PVP elements to the game for people who enjoy that side of things, but I would really like some other options for avoiding PvP. My suggestions would either be a passive mode, where you can neither attack nor be attacked, or the alternative would be some sort of matchmaking system.

    The reason I mention matchmaking system is that I often find myself getting completely dominated by other players to the point that it can't have been a fun fight for them either, I imagine the most fun comes from fighting someone who is of a similar skill level, as it would be for me too. A fairer fight would make me enjoy this game so much more, or the option to just play passively. I don't care if my reputation gain and gold gain are reduced by 33%, 50% even 66% whilst in this passive mode, I would enjoy the game so much more even then.

    I really hope the devs listen to these suggestions and don't just focus on the ones wanting more PvP, I feel like my concentrating on those, you are losing new players and players who just want a more casual experience.

  • Recently I've been dealing with many bad behaviors, most of those players were insulting us (in loop/nonstop) when sailing next to us before shooting at us, or insulting and trashtalking us when they sank us and "repaired" our boat in order to insult and kill us in loop (as if it was so funny) etc..
    We probably should just ignore them but still; I'm same frustrated that we don't have much options: Yes we can mute them and report them but huh not everyone streams when they get insulted?
    And seeing them not being always punished for that is even more frustrating since they roam free and act this way towards anyone without reason

  • @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @wolfmanbush said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    Double for me, and many, many others. It's a shame because, as I've said over and over, it could have been a great game. Instead it's just on GamePass life support.

    People try it out because it's on gamepass

    people don't spend thousands and thousands of hours of their time because it's on gamepass.

    great or not great is subjective but it'll go down as the top gaming experience for many out of all of their experiences. If not the top then the top 2 or 3, ever.

    what else can a game try to achieve? they all come and go but creating a product where many spend a very significant amount of time absorbed in the lore and environment and community is about the best a game could ever do.

    Who knows how many lives where improved by this game being available during a pandemic where it was difficult for people to live their lives as they would prefer. People got to pirate with their friends, meet new friends, find new connections during a time when there was universal struggle and hardship, socially and personally.

    I dunno if it makes it great but I think it easily makes it special and important to many.

    Seriously?

    This game wouldn't crack my top 20. Now, I've been gaming a LONG time...since Atari 2600..so I've played all the legendary titles. But best game ever? No way possible.

    It is good, but as many have indicated it isn't one you recommend to a friend.

    I wouldn't even rate this as the best Rare title. That would be Goldeneye followed by Conker.

    Yet here you are obsessing about it.

  • @myrilla Hey, don't give up on the game. You just need to find a group to play with. I've met a lot of great people playing this game. All of the players that I currently sail with were met in open crew. We've been playing together now for two years. Yes, there are a lot of toxic players out there. I remember having a lot of the same feelings when I first started playing this game. It can be very frustrating at times, but that's half the fun. I love the fact that you always need to watch the horizon and think about what if scenarios. There are a lot of great videos on YouTube to help you with tips and tricks to improve your gaming experience. I would recommend checking out Phuzzybond's videos on YouTube. You just need to hang in there and give it more time. Hey, if you want, you can always come sail with me and my crew. We'll help you get stuff done.

  • @like-500-ninjas, Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them. içinde yazdı:

    @wolfmanbush said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    Double for me, and many, many others. It's a shame because, as I've said over and over, it could have been a great game. Instead it's just on GamePass life support.

    People try it out because it's on gamepass

    people don't spend thousands and thousands of hours of their time because it's on gamepass.

    great or not great is subjective but it'll go down as the top gaming experience for many out of all of their experiences. If not the top then the top 2 or 3, ever.

    what else can a game try to achieve? they all come and go but creating a product where many spend a very significant amount of time absorbed in the lore and environment and community is about the best a game could ever do.

    Who knows how many lives where improved by this game being available during a pandemic where it was difficult for people to live their lives as they would prefer. People got to pirate with their friends, meet new friends, find new connections during a time when there was universal struggle and hardship, socially and personally.

    I dunno if it makes it great but I think it easily makes it special and important to many.

    Seriously?

    This game wouldn't crack my top 20. Now, I've been gaming a LONG time...since Atari 2600..so I've played all the legendary titles. But best game ever? No way possible.

    It is good, but as many have indicated it isn't one you recommend to a friend.

    I wouldn't even rate this as the best Rare title. That would be Goldeneye followed by Conker.

    You also said you dont play the game anymore. Why are you still on the forums then? You are an active member too. I am just curious.

  • @like-500-ninjas said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    That would have saved this game millions of players. But, alas, Rare went with toxicity over substance and here we are.

    They chose risk/reward and random unpredictable interaction which both contain substance

    Risk/reward creates an environment where the inexperienced can overcome and thrive

    Random and unpredictable interaction creates the opportunity for far more than hostility it creates opportunity for meaningful moments between people. Short or long term.

    Those that value toxicity are few and far between. The devs don't condone it or encourage it. Most of the players on the sea don't condone it or encourage it.

    Enjoying sinking ships, immersing in fantastical piracy, engaging in combat, these aren't indicators of anything about a person's character or beliefs, as it is escapism where everyone involved is aware of the risk.

  • @thorumsu said in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    @scurvywoof, Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them. içinde yazdı:

    I still can't believe people find ships that want to PvP! The most I've ever found is several Alliance Servers that just started. To be fair though, their toxicity was incredibly funny as me and my friends dominated their 5 ship server...

    Ah, the good days when you could find people... in Oceania only apparently ;(

    Since my last post was rightfully edited, I will say it in a diffrent way. How do you avoid getting mass reported?

    I honestly don't know xD
    Must be luck. I'm surprised I was never mass reported once, given how angry they were, lol

  • I genuinely believe that a big part of the problem with interactions in this game is Rare's fault for making the communication - even amongst your own crew - so terrible.

    Most every crew is in a private Discord or Xbox party now for that reason.

    1). The audio quality when switching from crew chat to an Xbox party or to a Discord jumps up exponentially. They need to make the quality of communication IN GAME better.

    2). They need to introduce a "crew chat"/"open chat" option in the menu that is easy for everyone to access. Nobody wants to put themselves at a disadvantage. Competent crews - even ones that would otherwise be OK with the reduced audio quality of using the ingame chat - don't want to have their communications be projected out for strategic reasons. So they use a private Discord/Xbox party now.

    3). There are so many communication bugs where players can't hear one another in game. Could be any number of reasons that it happens, and I get that it's always going to be a struggle when you're trying to keep multiple different playing venues open and a good portion of it could be user error. However, I can't tell you the number of times that I've tried communicating with another crew and they're just left there holding up their speaking speaking trumpet and I can't hear a single thing they're saying. Probably in part because of #2.

    4). The game really needs a 2 way overriding communication alert. When you are communicating in game, you get the little speaking bubble in the upper right. When you are typing or using pirate chat, you get to see what you've sent in the upper left...but if they have both of those things turned off (from other crews), they have no idea you're even trying to communicate. Just have another tiny little symbol that shows up that tells you if another player is trying to communicate with you.

    5). Even text and pirate chat doesn't seem to be consistent. I was playing the other day and I could hear and see everything that this other player was saying/typing...but he couldn't hear or see a single thing I was saying or typing. I'm guessing he had some setting turned off...but he seemed like a very savvy and skilled player so I can't imagine he didn't know how to check those settings. This plays into the need for the comms alert suggestion in number 4.

  • This game is by no means for everyone, its intended to have pve for you to have something you earned, and as a tool for other people to try to steal from you, but because your loot is an intended tool to cause others to steal from you, often people take preemptive measures and deal with anyone who is too close for comfort, but i cant say sinking some one at a shrine who is clearly not on their ship is 100% a cheep trick, but everything you gather from a shrine is safe even if you get sunk. Best of luck in what ever future games you may find, hopefully something suits your wants!

  • @scurvywoof sagte in Really frustrated by the behavior of other players and the limits of my options for dealing with them.:

    I still can't believe people find ships that want to PvP!

    And i cant believe there are ppl. that doesn't... Not a single ship ive Met in the Last weeks joined an alliance... I was Killed before i even could ask in a Hailstorm of Cannonballs...

  • @burnbacon Met a brig that lost there ship to the Legend of veil quest, we finished it for them and, gave us the chest of legends (new guy never got one before)

    Unless I'm mistaken, you can't finish someone else's Veil and receive loot from it. It's just an empty platform. So....

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