Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost

@sshteeve said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:

@alienmagi said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:

Does this mean that anyone who makes 10 or 20 fake accounts can spam the community managers with some race-baity outrage and have any cosmetics of their choosing be removed from the game?

well... no, because IP addresses exist as a thing (sure, VPN, why not...) but also other things such as credible sources etc...

You cant see people's IP on discord and social media.

@alienmagi said:

I cant believe what I am reading, this is so ridiculous.... This beard wasnt an "asian" beard, it was just A beard. Just like how the bilge rat dreadlocks arent some specific race's property...

And if they released it as such, just a beard, and it wasn't tied to the set, and didn't have the item description that it did, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

See what I find ridiculous is people taking such a strong stance on this without looking into it any deeper than the surface, and blaming cultural appropriation or gatekeeping.

The item's description referred to the doctor, and if one googled said doctor, they'd find that the character was created by the author specifically to portray Asians negatively.

The full terms are restricted here, but if one searched the partial terms "manchu, peril," one would be able to educate themselves a little further on the topic.

This is the same as if Rare released a black face paint that covers the whole face. If they released it as "tuck face paint," or something similar, it'd be fine. However if they released it as part of the "19th century set" and the item's description referred to its use in minstrel shows... well that wouldn't go over too well, would it?

I never intended to use the beard, but I am in favor of more facial hair options (and cosmetics in general). Negative context aside, as you said, it is then "just a beard." They should re-release it as a standalone, maybe with a separate beard-tie, and definitely with a different description.

@theblackbellamy said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:

@alienmagi said:

I cant believe what I am reading, this is so ridiculous.... This beard wasnt an "asian" beard, it was just A beard. Just like how the bilge rat dreadlocks arent some specific race's property...

And if they released it as such, just a beard, and it wasn't tied to the set, and didn't have the item description that it did, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

See what I find ridiculous is people taking such a strong stance on this without looking into it any deeper than the surface, and blaming cultural appropriation or gatekeeping.

The item's description referred to the doctor, and if one googled said doctor, they'd find that the character was created by the author specifically to portray Asians negatively.

The full terms are restricted here, but if one searched the partial terms "manchu, peril," one would be able to educate themselves a little further on the topic.

This is the same as if Rare released a black face paint that covers the whole face. If they released it as "tuck face paint," or something similar, it'd be fine. However if they released it as part of the "19th century set" and the item's description referred to its use in minstrel shows... well that wouldn't go over too well, would it?

I never intended to use the beard, but I am in favor of more facial hair options (and cosmetics in general). Negative context aside, as you said, it is then "just a beard." They should re-release it as a standalone, maybe with a separate beard-tie, and definitely with a different description.

Wow.

The way you describe that almost makes it sound like it was a deliberately included by Rare that way, in which case: wth Rare?

@wolfmanbush it very well could all be a coincidence.

It's just the specificity that seems a little too unlikely...

@wolfmanbush I'm not sure if you looked up what @theblackbellamy was referring to, but it makes it pretty clear that if this was Rare's attempt at inclusivity it was horrendously short-sighted and unresearched, especially for a company based in Britain.

@thagoochiestman said:

it was horrendously short-sighted and unresearched

But that doesn't make it intentionally malicious.

This stuff isn't that common knowledge. I was familiar with the name in reference to the facial hair, but I wasn't aware of its history until I looked it up.

I think what Rare intended was innocent. Though I think it was, as you said, not researched fully. More importantly, I think they acknowledged it was a poor decision after they removed it.

I do think they could've provided a better, more transparent explanation to the playerbase than "our community managers had feedback." If they explained why exactly it was a bad idea to leave in the game as is, it may have diffused a lot of the unwarranted backlash.

@theblackbellamy said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:

@alienmagi said:

I cant believe what I am reading, this is so ridiculous.... This beard wasnt an "asian" beard, it was just A beard. Just like how the bilge rat dreadlocks arent some specific race's property...

And if they released it as such, just a beard, and it wasn't tied to the set, and didn't have the item description that it did, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.

See what I find ridiculous is people taking such a strong stance on this without looking into it any deeper than the surface, and blaming cultural appropriation or gatekeeping.

The item's description referred to the doctor, and if one googled said doctor, they'd find that the character was created by the author specifically to portray Asians negatively.

The full terms are restricted here, but if one searched the partial terms "manchu, peril," one would be able to educate themselves a little further on the topic.

This is the same as if Rare released a black face paint that covers the whole face. If they released it as "tuck face paint," or something similar, it'd be fine. However if they released it as part of the "19th century set" and the item's description referred to its use in minstrel shows... well that wouldn't go over too well, would it?

I never intended to use the beard, but I am in favor of more facial hair options (and cosmetics in general). Negative context aside, as you said, it is then "just a beard." They should re-release it as a standalone, maybe with a separate beard-tie, and definitely with a different description.

What's wrong with just changing the description then? This character that you've told me to look up didnt even have a beard, just a moustache, so it doesn't even look the same.

And you really don't get why people get worked up over it? Can you imagine Rare releasing a cool cosmetic that you really like only to be forever deleted a few days later? Because of some hardly known fictional character that was made up 100 years ago? At this point I'm just worried that the bilge rat hair and afro will get removed too, as soon as someone complains about those, since everything in the game is arguably portrayed in a negative light because we are pirates.

This is the same story as with the rainbow flag, some people just cant help themselves to see innocent cosmetics seen as political agendas. But hey, at least they actually left the rainbow flag in the game and im glad they did.

And before you say it's different because the beard had an offensive description, I ask again, whats wrong with just changing the description then instead of just removing it entirely?

@galactic-geek said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:

Half a swastika is NOT a swastika.

And the hairstyle, despite your thoughts on it was a REAL hairstyle. I waited so long for a Fue-Man Chu, and this is what I get (taken away)? 🙄

Pirates just need to get their heads out of their you know what. 😏

I've been corrected about it being a depiction of a rune, not (half) a swastika.

When used in the quest book, it IMHO wouldn't have any links to WWII-Germany, but if they would want to use the symbol in the future on flags or sails, I think they made the right choice in altering it now.

I didn't say anything about a hairstyle though, perhaps quoted / replied to the wrong person ?

@alienmagi said:

And before you say it's different because the beard had an offensive description, I ask again, whats wrong with just changing the description then?

Whats wrong with that? Nothing.

I said at the end of my first reply to you, that I think they should re-release it as a standalone, with a different description.

I said I feel we need more facial hair options. They could even add a toothbrush mustache if they wanted. But they should probably not reference a certain historical German politician in the description.