I'm posing as a solo slooper, so expect a bit of salt.
Why is the final mission a beacon to the whole map? I've tried this three times now, on a different server each, and I simply cannot get beyond the final mission because everybody swarms it. I understand the inherent risk in the game, especially if one goes at it solo, but isn't a 'come hither' sign a bit much?
@a-ravens-cry You are playing solo (hard mode) and you are choosing a high risk and high reward activity. You have several options, but none of them will involve your being able to complete this activity solo on day one without knowing how to fight off other players on your own. I would suggest finding a group. You have a good chance of finding others interested in completing this with you.
@a-ravens-cry It's a legendary voyage. And as a pirate legend you should be capable of defending your vessel from threats.
Plus how else am I supposed to know you are running it so I can steal it from you lol.
I think allowing legends to create world events is a step in the right direction, but there should be some mechanic that encourages an "uneasy" cooperation until the very end.
Maybe the event is active only if the legend vessel remains afloat, and maybe the main treasure at the end is only available if the legend ship receives the final stone? Then, add a ton more ghost ships like flameheart, and now the rest of the vessels will be invested in protecting the legendary ship.
Second, reward the legend ship directly. Some of the treasure materializes on the vessel directly after placing the last stone, providing a base level of reward. Everything else you go after once the voyage is done would be an additional risk.
The way it currently stands, you stand to gain everything by sinking and stealing from the athena ship, and need to risk nothing. Like FoF, these voyages will only be done on alliance servers / dead servers, and risk alienating a large portion of the community who want more repeatable content, but don't want the constant PvP without feeling like they are being rewarded for it.
Better game design would be creating a dilemma for attacking ships. They want to sink the athena ship since it has a flag and some loot already, but if they created a mechanic like I am suggesting above, any ships that want to participate in the event would be incentivized to keep the athena ship alive, and so must strive to push them off the event without killing them to steal the treasures right out from under them. Or, board and steal the treasure that way / gain hand-to-hand superiority on the forts themselves.
The point is that the objective for would-be attackers is no longer just wait to the end and steal, it is now make sure we are in a good position when this event finishes to get as much treasure as possible from the forts, and ideally be ready to attack the athena vessel too. That takes a combination of diplomacy, positioning, skill, and discipline which make for a more engaging event, and gives the defending ship more opportunity to cut their losses if they feel outgunned, or even promise to cede treasure by only taking what materializes on their boat. They could lie of course, but that's part of the fun! You are the invader after all, attacking a legendary crew! So they can freely fire upon and sink you, but you are in a pickle because you don't want to sink them (right now at least), or maybe not at all. But good luck convincing them of that if you start stealing their stuff right away.
This is all what Rare originally had in mind for skull forts. They were pitched as these events with so much treasure that one vessel couldn't possibly get everything out themselves. It was going to be more of a free-for-all in which you get whatever you could get your hands on and make your escape. That is decidedly not how these events turned out. Requiring pirates to transport the loot on foot, making the forts too small to where you can easily fire upon one another, and locking all the treasure behind the final door encourages a winner-take-all approach / zero-sum game, which is more competitive, but ultimately a less complex kind of equilibrium. This actually provides less freedom by making the winning strategy apparent and binary. It is boring because it is predictable, and I predict that these voyages will suffer the same fate.
@calicorsaircat Some good ideas, there. This is the kind of stuff I think they need to work on if they want to keep the game vibrant and healthy, while still retaining the core essence of it.
@lethality1 Agreed! My idea isn't perfect, but directionally, I'd like to see less of the new content result in binary winners and losers out on the seas. To accomplish this, the event must be designed to counter human nature because people don't like sharing, and they don't like taking needless risks or trusting others without purpose. The best players can still get the "most" treasure, and of course, you can still PvP when the event is over. But my idea is basically to encourage others to ensure that the initiating ship gets treasure onboard, so that from there, a more complex decision needs to be made of do I stay and get the rest or leave the rest behind and make my escape. That is a choice I believe should be afforded to the ship who initiates the legend voyage since they put in the work. Usually, that choice is made for them on things like FoF and skull forts since it takes so long to load up, you have almost no choice but to fight.
That being said, I've yet to play through the new voyage, and so maybe there is already enough reward that the final mission is just the cherry on top.
So uh, nevermind the fact that you're doing one of the potentially riskiest, NEWEST voyages as a solo sloop, one of the worst/toughest ships to win a tough PvP fight in, ON THE FIRST DAY THE VOYAGE WAS INTRODUCED AND RELEASED.
Why on EARTH do I see people criticizing the risk/reward gameplay like that's an issue now because of a new player-activated "world event"?
Binary winners and losers? Yeah I don't buy that for a second. You either defend yourself or you don't. You know what your crew size is, and you should adjust your playstyle accordingly, none of this forced "keep everyone around till it's over" kind of nonsense. People want to steal and plunder, so they CAN and WILL.
Messing with the freedoms of the pirates that sail these seas in any way will crush the balance and general game sense people have spent years trying to learn and maintain.
Look at it like this as far as this new voyage goes: Once people start hitting Athena 30, you'll see less Athena Emissary Athena hunters, and more actual hunters who are only going after the glowing blue chest that you NEED to guard yourself with a trusty crew. Don't solo this voyage, it's not worth the frustration, get a crew.
@nex-stargaze said in Why is the final mission in the new Athena seen map wide?:
So uh, nevermind the fact that you're doing one of the potentially riskiest, NEWEST voyages as a solo sloop, one of the worst/toughest ships to win a tough PvP fight in, ON THE FIRST DAY THE VOYAGE WAS INTRODUCED AND RELEASED.
Agreed, its always way harder to do the new content on the first day. It will calm down, but it still doesn't invalidate OPs question as to why this was made to be visible map wide. Granted, he was solo slooping, but he acknowledges that and really doesn't complain, just asks whether the community thinks it really was a good idea to make the final mission a world event.
Why on EARTH do I see people criticizing the risk/reward gameplay like that's an issue now because of a new player-activated "world event"?
Risk/reward gameplay has always been challenged for whether it offers a good balance. And just like your argument above, it is usually when the content drops that it is first discussed. But we also have a lot of history with the game, and so can lend our experience and thoughts. That's what the forums are for, deal with it.
Binary winners and losers? Yeah I don't buy that for a second. You either defend yourself or you don't. You know what your crew size is, and you should adjust your playstyle accordingly, none of this forced "keep everyone around till it's over" kind of nonsense. People want to steal and plunder, so they CAN and WILL.
"You either defend yourself or you don't" is the binary state of the game right now, so you nailed it. So it's a bit hard to see how you can't buy that. Think you just want to disagree to disagree personally. It's apparent you like the status quo, and that's great! I like the game too. But we already have enough of that with most every other event in the game to varying degrees. It's getting a bit tired and predictable, and so progress means trying new ideas. You can still steal and plunder after the event is over if you really can't cope, but what I'm saying is that if they designed this one differently, you wouldn't be able to. And that is not a restriction of your "freedom," that would just be the rules. And making other vessels feel like they have a shot at some treasure without having to sink every boat might attract more people, not less, meaning even better naval battles. That's why I think it is a good idea to have content that encourages "uneasy cooperation" until the end, but you are free to attack anytime you want, but it probably won't be in your best interest.
Messing with the freedoms of the pirates that sail these seas in any way will crush the balance and general game sense people have spent years trying to learn and maintain.
Binary "you defend yourself or you don't" offers less freedom. Nobody is crushing the balance and "general game sense" whatever that means. Hyperbole much?
Look at it like this as far as this new voyage goes: Once people start hitting Athena 30, you'll see less Athena Emissary Athena hunters, and more actual hunters who are only going after the glowing blue chest that you NEED to guard yourself with a trusty crew. Don't solo this voyage, it's not worth the frustration, get a crew.
Probably true, but basically saying "don't worry they will only be after your athena chest in the future nothing else" isn't really reassuring for anyone who has genuine concerns about whether the voyage will be appealing for the community as a whole, or if it will be ignored and so nobody wins. Not the people who would want to do them, and certainly not you who wants to be a freedom pirate whose general game sense is to steal and plunder because they can and will. Hopefully I personified you about as fairly as you characterized the ideas in this thread, because I think I nailed it.
@a-ravens-cry Solo sloop'er here. As I was about to do the 3 forts of the final part of the Voyage (public build) I noticed a lurking sloop at an island with sail down. I sailed over and offered up 2 chests with a total of 6 Athena items. As well offered loot when I completed it if I was left alone to do so. The player took the 2 chests and during the last part with the bigger fort they sailed through the battle not engaging with my ship whatsoever. Kept my end of the bargain after completion. Left everything but the Chest of Legends and 2 Athena skulls.
As commented by MintHarp, this is a newer activity for players to do or be aware of so odds of not having engagements are greatly decreased. Give it a week or so and the initial hype will have eased off a wee bit.
There is this thing called Risk = reward
Want to earn more gold/reputation, that is possible in multiple ways:
do voyages in the roar; risk is higher due to volcanoes but the value of the ashen loot is double the regular loot
raise an emissary flag, the higher the grade your flag is the more gold/rep you gain for the loot you sell but you will have a target on your bag due to that and the higher the grade the bigger the target
do world events, lots of loot in a small condensed area but the event is being broadcast server wide
do the most rewarding athena voyage there has ever been but be prepared to show your prowess as a PL, being a pl should show mastery of the game and pvp is part of that
See every boost you can get comes with the risk of getting attacked / sunk, the bigger the reward something is worth the bigger the risk
And as the most reqarding athena voyage and with the fact that athena’s fortune should be kept in high regard (although the gameplay was kind off left to the side for so long sadly) it also means that that the end battle will and should be broadcast, it is upto you as a PL to safeguard the loot you have been working for and if you cant… then you weren’t worthy to have it in the first place
I have done the event many a time and I have had 3/5 uncontested. It is never guarantee if you'll be able to do it in peace or not. That is the name of the game. I did it as a gally one day and a sloop snuck right in throwing chainshot at us and cursed balls/flameheart balls at us. It became a 30 minute battle against them and all the ghost ships. The advantage of being there in any ship type is that EVERYONE is being shot at by the competent ghost ships so it's a game of "How many supplies you have" vs "how many supplies they have before either of us have to duck out.
Some times you get lucky and people wish to alliance too.
