Reaper runners = toxic?

Opinions aside, "Tools, not rules". The Reaper faction takes in and allows the selling of any treasure, even that earned via PVE. People are not obligated to fight, you are not owed a fight, etc etc.
BUT! Honestly Reaper Runners deserve to be the meme they are, and shouldn't complain about that. It is a PVP inclined faction, and lore-wise it's bloodthirsty, however the tools and possibilities given means that yes, Reaper Running is a valid strategy, but you can't complain when you're chased for raising the most lucrative flag and gold farm in the game.
I think it's all just a matter of decorum. Getting chased and chasing are both frustrating for different kinds of players, but at the end of the day, whatever happens, that "GG" has to still be present. If you don't have anything nice to say, it ain't worth saying. A bit of banter or moderate trash talk is fine, as long as it doesn't cross any lines. (e.g. using the phrase Reaper Runner, or using pirate lingo to taunt them is a fun one)

@timedsatyr79799 This is definitely the source of frustration, chasing and chase mechanics are just way too barebones and simple in this game. The Reaper faction does come across as "Low risk, High reward" for a lot of people because of the fact that with just enough of an understanding of wind mechanics, you can avoid any altercation to your benefit. There does need to be a better chase and run system in the game, something to actually spice it up and make it a game of strategy and wit, not attrition and luck.
At the moment chasing is a little too favourable to the runners side. As long as you stay in front, at the same speed or faster, you can get away, AND you have the opportunity to jump overboard, board the chasers boat, and drop anchor/kill, etc. The chaser can only chase. I've always liked the idea of adding "wakes" to the back of the ships, that could function as a slipstream of sorts (or "stealing" the ship in fronts wind). That way, the runner can try and board, but the chaser has a chance to catch up and harpoon or jump aboard, etc. It just personally feels like that would be a little more balanced.

@cinnumann

It turns to attrition when chaser just won't give up even if you make it obvious to them that they will never catch you

This is my point. Two incredibly determined crews makes a long chase, and the luck comes in with the "they will never catch you". An unfortunate wind change, the meg or kraken, a skelly ship are all luck/RNG based, not skill.

Just hanging behind someone for hours doesn't take skill. It takes skill to catch someone and you really should consider every failure as opportunity to learn.

Again, if they're NEVER gonna catch you, no amount of skill is going to matter. It's what i meant by chases are too barebones. You can't run FOREVER, you will have to turn at the red sea eventually (unless you wanna use that, but thats not the topic here) hence making it a battle of attrition. Eventually either the chaser will give up, or the runner will lose their edge and the chaser will take that chance. There are things that can be done, such as cannon boarding and rowboat plays like you mentioned, but when a default back and forth chase begins, that's when things grind to a halt, and is what i addressed.

@cinnumann

No one will escape you if you have the right approach and a little bit of luck on your side

But you shouldn't NEED a little bit of luck. Welcome, sure, but i wish it were more in-depth is all. Right approach i get, but there are just the ships that will drop sails and take the best wind course they have the moment they see you point your nose at them. After that, nothing can be done, because chase mechanics don't exist.

If you fail to catch it is just insane to try and chase for hours.

Now this i will actually agree on. I believe on both sides of the camp, running continuously for hours and chasing continuously for hours are both just not worth it. In that time, both parties could have left and gotten what they wanted elsewhere, e.g. a quieter server for the PVEer, or a spicy ship for the PVPer. Some people enjoy chases, sure, but doing them for hours is drivel.

True skill, knowledge and wits are on knowing when to push on and when to give up.

Disagree. Skill doesn't come from giving up, it doesn't take skill to disengage or to turn off, it is simply out of convenience.

I would like to differentiate, i see a difference between retreating, and running. Retreating involves board attempts, rock plays, cannon angles, island drive-bys etc. I respect a good skilled retreat, with ingenuity and quick wit. I fail a chase because someone employed one of these on me? GG to them, well done.
Much like how you said it takes no skill to chase for hours, it takes no skill to run for hours. Simply dropping sails immediately and using your ships best wind advantage is not skillful. They are on the same level. Thus, it becomes attrition, and luck, waiting for something to change to give either crew a chance to break the stalemate.

@prorunnerr many would disagree, but isn't chasing/running in and of itself PvP?

Like it's two groups of players competing over who can do something (in this case sail) the best - that's literally the definition of PvP.

but reaper is a PVP faction and it's really not hard to understand because it's literally written on every reaper achievements.

Ive read this and cant help but think...WHERE does it say, Reapers are a PvP only faction. That like saying Athena Emissary cant do normal GH voyages or OoS.

If you know how the wind works, it's sometimes impossible to chase ships and you keep turning around the map for years.

Then think outside the box or leave them alone.

Chasing a ship is part of the game but not like this

Okie..what? It okie to chase, but not okie to run?

Its really annoying for pvp players and its ruinning the game experience.

What is annoying? how are Reaper flag players ruining the game for you?

There is a lot of other factions which are safer if you don't want a fight.

DO...TELL. Because I can find people who play GH Emissary complain about Pvp...Nothing is Safe

Reaper is the only way to pvp with arena closing and majority of reapers just run a soon as they see a ship, without even trying to fight.

Dont play Reaper? Just sail as a normal ship and attack unexpecting ships. DUN DUN! :o
(Another Arena player upset they can't PvP)

Rare litteraly created this faction for pvpers and pvers refuse to play it like it should be.

Find me where they said this. "Reaper Faction is for PvP only"

Its really ruinning the game experience and i thought this game was "high risk, best rewards"

For who? You? or the ones playing the game normally. It is High Risk, =Reward. They risk wearing a flag that marks them on the map 24/7 and you know where they are all the time, so sneak up on them and catch them. Reapers tend to hoard loot.

Now you just can play on empty servers or chase a ship for 2 hours for a 2min fight. Or join a boring server alliance.

I dont think the game allows you to be on a empty server.
Chase a ship for 2 hours? That on you.
2min fight? Maybe they weren't that good or if you sunk, you didnt
Or dont join one....idk.

• Rant by a Arena player who cant find PvP

@sshteeve Not what i was trying to get at.
I never said you shouldn't run because it takes no skill, i stated that, like simply mindlessly chasing, dropping sails and sailing into the wind isn't a skill gap. Sure you can be better and more efficient at it than others but it isn't a game of absolute precision.
I said in my original comment "tools not rules" and that no ones owed a fight, you can run, you can chase, but at the end of the day, say GG and be respectful. I have not told anyone how to play the game, nor that they shouldn't play it a certain way, i have simply stated my own views on the subject.

The point i was trying to get at is that i see it like the runner is able to board, do island drive-bys, potential keg plays, while the chaser is only really able to chase, or disengage and try again later, lest the ship in front gets krakened, megged, skellied, or hits the red sea, all pretty RNG based. I personally just see that as unfair, and i feel there should be more mechanics to make the overall chase more engaging, especially for BOTH parties, i wouldn't mind a "feature" for both sides of the coin, one that aids the chaser, and one that can aid the runner. I don't personally chase often, if at all, despite how my viewpoint may have come across, i just wish there was more to it than what we have now.

@cinnumann You're right on the first point, given the opportunity, blocking a ships path of best exit is a viable strategy, i was just stating that there are ships out there who once you're within any kind of moderate distance, will immediately turn tail, sometimes to the point that you won't get the chance to chainshot or board.

No one said skill comes from giving up. It takes skill and knowledge to know when to give up. Its like weightlifting. As starter you get 5000kg deadweight. Will you improve just by trying to lift even if you know it aint gonna happen? Will you get better or just bitter? Wise man would say that you fail and next time you have smarts to start with lower weight. Improve. Try new ideas.

I think i simply worded what i said wrong, my apologies, but what i drew from what you originally said was that it takes skill and knowledge to give up a chase, a la "I know i have very little chance of catching this person, i will disengage" which i just disagreed with, however that is a good call to make, but not one that requires skill. Knowledge of chase mechanics however, sure.

Usually people use these tricks cause they see no other way out. Which means the chaser is more skilled and will catch eventually. You are just downgrading yourself telling that you are simply outplayed by lowering sails and heading to one direction.

I see it more as the runner understands the tools at their disposal, that the chaser has limited or no access to. I wouldn't say they use these tricks because theres no other way out, because these are ways out, and that's what i meant by retreating. A conscious, active effort using whats at their disposal to stay ahead and on top, while also making an effort to stop the chasers in their tracks, thus winning said encounter. There isn't much of a counter on the chasers part to lowering sails and keeping with the wind.

@cinnumann 100% would not "nerf" running, i agree that its a tool, not a rule, and a completely viable one at that. I just believe chasing, or the entire style of encounter itself, needs a buff.

As i said, runners/retreaters can board/anchor, keg play, harpoon round islands and rocks, and generally stay ahead. Chasers really cannot do much aside from keep chasing, wait for an opportune moment (Meg/krak/skel or a blunder on the runners part), or disengage/come back at a better angle/time.
I mentioned wakes/slipstreams before to help the chaser, an old concept i liked was having the wind inside/at the edge of a storm be stronger, and sailing in it is a dramatic speed boost, but can be a damaging risk.

Say for example a chasing ship was given a method of catching up, the running ship in front can still use that to better board their ship and slow them down (jump on to the ship closer, or even directly from their own ship), or a good play could be hard stopping the ship and letting the chaser sail by (like an anchor handbrake turn).
I cannot recommend or suggest back or front facing cannons, as that would be way too much, but as the runner has a fair few options available to them to slow the chasers advances, it personally feels unfair the chaser has less options available.

At the end of the day, i want the whole encounter more engaging, not just a nerf to running. I think running is honestly fine, hell i've had some runs/retreat plays im proud of, but at a base level, it's one of the few areas of the ship gameplay i feel lacks.

@cinnumann The difficulty is adding more engaging chase methods without making one side too powerful, making it too complicated, or taking away what makes it a chase in the first place. I also try to think within the confines of the pirate feel, i wouldn't want a magical solution to all this.
The chase scenes from PotC come to mind honestly, how cool and tense they were, but honestly perhaps it's just not possible to capture that feeling without players themselves taking risks that probably aren't worth it, and no gameplay changes will illicit that feeling either without throwing balance.

Honestly though, you do raise a good counter argument with the chase begins on the chasers whims, and a runner is forced into that encounter, i was too busy factoring gameplay and not the experience behind it. The risks posed by the runner are that which you face when you decide to chase the players. That, on top of yes, the red sea is a risk, i suppose kind of balance the chasers prerogative to begin said chase.
It may be a different topic to discuss but that does loop back to the issue with the red sea. I do believe red sea-ing loot, while currently a tool, is something that hurts the balance/experience more than anything. Nobody wins, it's just a bandaid for the runners that the chasers don't get their loot either (though again, chasing is one prerogative, red-seaing is another) but thats a discussion that isn't at all relevant to this thread.
Ultimately, chasing just feels lackluster and isn't completely fun for everyone involved, but i concede there really isn't a visible alternative. As long as everyone GG's at the end and it's not game breaking or trolling, anything goes.

They ain't toxic.

It's just really sad to see that this is what the game has come to

Think back to the older versions when people went and did small voyages and then had memorable interactions and epic naval fights to defend their "haul" of 5 captains chests

Rare did a stupid move and tried to make the game good for everyone. In doing so, obliterated all the game mechanics that made it good.

Now the game is full of people who insist that redseaing and running is a good part of the game. The attempt at reviving PvP via the Reapers backfired and became a get rich quick scheme.

Then everything just started pandering the new players. Giving them a Battle Pass so they would quit whining about losing "work".

The older, better, version of SoT is gone forever unfortunately. :(