Making cursed cannonballs more interesting and interactive

  • I personally think the design of cursed cannon balls could be made more interesting.
    Right now some cannonballs are almost useless and others can totally change a fight: stuff like anchorball on galleons, peaceball when taking a broadside from bigger ships and obviously the jig and weary balls.
    I don't personally like the way these works, I don't think these are fair, specially if you get to stack them by playing for long session. When me and my friend who I duo on the sloop with play reaper, we tend to play for at least 3 hours, stacking resources and server hopping when needed. Quite often we got enough cursed cannonballs to anchor our opponents and stun-lock them until i boarded an killed at least one or two people on their crew. We tend to keep these balls just for strong opponents and this usually gives us quite an edge at the start of the fight. Since all you need to use the effect of a cursed ball is to hit the shot, we can easily get close to the enemy ship for an easy shot and don't care about the ship diff as it doesn't matter if we are on their broadside as long as we got a ball to prevent them from firing (peace, weary and jig balls).

    I think that new cursed balls should be added (or the current one be reworked) keeping in mind two aspects:

    1. The cursed cannon balls should decay over time, let's say you drop them in specific occasions and after then the magic inside the cursed cannon balls starts to slowly deplete until it turns into a normal cannon ball (would take about 2 hours i think? would need balance). This would prevent hoarding these balls and incentivize players to use them and not just hold them until they log off.
    2. The user would need to play properly in order to benefit from the cursed ball.
      For this I'll make an example of what I mean, don't necessarily take this example as a suggestion or something that I think it's already balanced as this might even be a little weak right now, just get the idea:

    Frostball: upon hitting a ship the frost ball freezes a small area of the hull while also slowing players who were to close too the hit (optional idea, also: being on fire prevents this).
    The part of the hull which is frozen for a bunch of seconds will be more fragile, a cannonball hit on a frozen part of the hull will instantly open a tier 3 hole.
    Basically hitting the ball by itself doesn't do anything, you also need to hit the same area again during that small window in order to benefit from its powers. Let's say the area is large as two holes, if you play correctly you can open two tier 3 holes with a total of three cannonballs (the Frostball+2 cannon balls).

    Another idea is to give more interactions or some kind of counter-play for the opponent, little examples:

    Ballastball becomes the Heavyball:
    Upon impact, an Heavyball penetrates the hull and land inside the ship (basically upon hitting the enemy ship a bigger, black opaque cannonball spawns inside the enemy ship). The cannonball is now treated as a chest (you can pick it up and drop it, but can't get it in your inventory or stick it inside a cannon again. This said, it would also be cool to see two ship exchanging the same ball until someone misses), it also emits a specific sound to help players finding it. As long as this cannonball stays on the ship it has similar but weaker effects to the Ballastball, slowing down the ship and allowing for more water to pour into it. Players should try to quickly spot it and try to get it off their ship as fast as possible.

    Helmball becomes the Vineball:
    Upon hitting a ship, the Vineball allows for vines to grow from the base of the anchor, cannons and capstan (maybe just one part if that's too powerfull, or even extend this to barrels too to also replace the Barrelball, depends on balance), making it impossible to use them. In order to free these parts of the ship from the vines you'd just have to damage them enough (60 HP?). Also, using a firebomb to set the vines on fire would instantly destroy them; this way Galleons would be able to instantly free a broadside at the cost of momentarily setting on fire 1 or 2 cannons.

    We could also make Phantom cannon balls more interesting: these are basically just a reskin of base cannonballs that looks like phantoms, what if, upon hitting a ship and in addition to opening one hole, this cannonball also spawns one phantom on the opponent ship? This might get too broken tho, with the quantity you get form an OoS voyage: imagine facing a Galleon that got like 8 of these lul.

    What do you guys think? I foresee people complaining about the cursed cannonballs decaying and I can see why, even tho I think it would be more balanced. But I hope that you guys like the idea of making these more interesting to use and have a more interactive counter-play.

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  • I'm not sure if i like the ability for the cursed cannonballs to basically rot like a fruit. A lot of these ideas are well thought out and balanced, but would simply be too drastic for it to be received well by the majority of players.

    One thing i do like is the loot/cannonball idea for the Anchorball. I've wanted more pvp items like ashen winds skulls for a while now. I also would love that vineball idea to be a thing!

  • Right now some cannonballs are almost useless and others can totally change a fight: stuff like anchorball on galleons, peaceball when taking a broadside from bigger ships and obviously the jig and weary balls.
    I don't personally like the way these works, I don't think these are fair,

    Useless. Name a few. They all have there uses.
    “Fair”?

    It unfair a skeleton ship can fire these and other normal cannon balls with no sign of ending. Unlimited.
    It unfair a skeleton can eat more banana then I can carry.
    Yet we deal with those.

    How is it unfair to meet a crew who happen yo either play longer then you or happen to get lucky and collect them form outposts?
    Or how is it fair to sneak on a ship and steal them while the crew is on land. Unaware?

    I see no issue with the current and adding new ones. Atm doesn’t seem to far off from happening but doubt. It’s needed or required.

    And come on….decay curses…
    Someone upset they got taken down by another ship using curse balls yet in the same post told a story of them doing the same thing

  • @burnbacon

    Useless. Name a few. They all have there uses.

    Riggingball is almost completely useless, it lasts so little that it almost changes nothing thanks to inertia, it's just a much worse version of the anchorball.
    Barrelball is also completely useless, the situation where this has any impact at all are so little that it's statistically irrelevant.
    Helmball has also little to no impact and the situations were this could be impactfull are very specific and rare.
    Venomball is basically a glorified firebomb which applies its DoT to everyone at the cost of not setting a tile on fire. Usually just cost the enemy team 1-2 fruits per crew member so it's just annoying tbh, can cause some panic on bad crews but it's not game changing as the truly strong cursed cannon balls.

    These ones above are useless, on the other hand limpballs and grogballs can cause some pressure but, even tho these are useless, they also aren't remotely strong as the others.

    “Fair”?

    It unfair a skeleton ship can fire these and other normal cannon balls with no sign of ending. Unlimited.

    It's not, as you can board a player a steal their cannon balls (like you state later in the post) you can board a skeleton ship and kill the skeletons, but boarding a skelly is much much easier than boarding a player ship. You could also shoot at the skeleton on the cannon with both guns or cannon an it won't react as players do. It's easy to deal with, why would it be unfair?

    It unfair a skeleton can eat more banana then I can carry.

    Why is it unfair tho? the AI is so easy to deal with.

    Yet we deal with those.

    Yes, that's the point. Those things aren't unfair as you can easily react to them and deal with them. PvE is based on the entities having more power compared to the player because players have brains which are not limited like scripts.
    Unfair is something you can't deal with or that puts you on an insane disadvantage without it needing any kind of skill:
    Boarding is very powerful but boarding a good crew isn't easy to board as they will be aware of boarders and act accordingly, you gotta earn the chance of boarding by putting enough pressure.
    Weary and jig balls allow you to have a free board chance that can grant you both at least a kill and lowered anchor, which is an insane advantage.
    A weary/jig ball + an anchor ball against bigger crews gives you a free chance of getting the masts down while positioning your ship out of their cannon range, which is huge for a sloop vs galleon for example.
    Firing a ballast ball right after hitting multiple shots on a galleon and following it with a weary or jig ball is a death sentence.

    These cursed ball ARE unfair because they private their targets of their tools without any kind of counter play. Weary and jig balls literally prevent you from playing and can be chained, how is it fair to have the power to make your opponents go Afk for many seconds? I don't care if no one used that against me, if it's possible to do that and it's easy to do that just sounds wrong to me.

    How is it unfair to meet a crew who happen yo either play longer then you or happen to get lucky and collect them form outposts?

    They had the time to collect those resources, I hadn't. When a fight starts between a decent crew that has been playing for 2-3 hours and a freshly spawned decent crew the first will always have a big advantage over the other even tho they didn't earn that edge by playing better than the other crew.

    Or how is it fair to sneak on a ship and steal them while the crew is on land. Unaware?

    Why wouldn't it be fair? o.O There are much easy way to prevent that, boarding is hard. A decent crew won't get boarded as easily, personally we even keep the good cursed balls in our inventories to prevent any bad situation were an enemy player somehow successfully boards us.
    As said: unfair means what said above: lack of counter-play or a very big gap created by tools and not skill. I can't se a reason why sneaking on a ship isn't fair. But anyway, if you meant this as "it's a way to counter cursed cannon balls" no, that's not a reliable strategy to counter cursed cannon balls as boarding a decent crew is not easy, as said before: you gotta earn that chance.

    And come on….decay curses…
    Someone upset they got taken down by another ship using curse balls yet in the same post told a story of them doing the same thing

    I don't know why people have this trend going were as soon as someone is complaining about something they assume he must have lost to that. No, I don't recall me and my friend sinking to people stacking cursed cannonballs in the last month. I don't think it's common to find good crews that know how to capitalize on cursed cannon balls, the fact it doesn't happen often because player don't know how to capitalize on it/don't play longer sessions doesn't mean it isn't a thing. One thing I'd understand is "currently there's no need for a fix because, since more than 90% of players do not know how to abuse these unfair strategies, it occurs very rarely" but even tho I understand that, I still think it should be fixed for skilled players fights. That's the same for blunder bombs, I think those are utterly broken but still... I encounter a player who abuses them only like once every 3 months. It doesn't happen often to me, but I do it all the time so I know how blunder bombs are unhealthy and powerful.

    yet in the same post told a story of them doing the same thing

    The fact I think a strategy is unfair it doesn't mean I shouldn't use it nor that I shouldn't think it's healthy.
    Take very competitive games like League: sometimes some very unique and unhealthy strategies take a huge part in the META, whether you like to use/be "victim" of those strategies or not doesn't matter: if you want to have the best chances of winning the match you must use them.

    Specially against good crews I will do my best to win by using every strategy I know in order to make my chances of winning as high as possible, even do I think a strategy is unhealthy for my opponent I have no reason not to use it as long as it can give me an edge over my opponent.
    The only thing I think is so disgusting and wrong that I personally do not abuse is the glitch that allows you to teleport around under water: it is so easy to do and just gives you an insane advantage at dodging bullets underwater that I think it's wrong, I will never use it; An other exception was that I refused to farm points with cannons while spawnkilling a crew in Arena on my road to 240 wins, that just wasn't the way I wanted to win and me and my friend refused to use that strategy unless we were about to lose to someone who was abusing that same strategy. If we were losing against "honest" crews (whether abusing that strategy was is honest or not is debatable, we used to think it wasn't honest) we would accept that and keep playing without farming points while spawnkilling the crew.

  • I like the idea of that, very good ideas. I think throwing some ideas for new cannonballs or updates to current cannonballs would be a great asset to this post as well!

  • No, but there are a few cases where out of a 3 man crew, only 1 or 2 or no one takes effect after being hit with a jig or weary ball. Cursed cannonball reg should be fixed. Great ideas.

  • @el-spaniardchi said in Making cursed cannonballs more interesting and interactive:

    I'm not sure if i like the ability for the cursed cannonballs to basically rot like a fruit.

    Rotball! Good idea! It'd destroy enemy fruits in barrels.

  • @timedsatyr79799

    there are a few cases where out of a 3 man crew, only 1 or 2 or no one takes effect after being hit with a jig or weary ball.

    It gets weird, I don't think it's cause of the hitreg and we usually fir at least two of those cursed balls in rapid succesion to avoid that issue.
    Me and my friends actually tried to test this a bit and it looks like that if you are not touching the ship with your feet you are not victim to a cursed ball effects. This means you could technically dodge a green cursed ball debuff by jumping at the right moment, it is just really hard to do in the middle of a fight and even harder to coordinate with your team so that even who can't physically see the cannon ball, who is repairing for example, can jump when you say it. Also it is still very close to impossible trying to dodge one by jumping if fired at close range as you don't have the time to dodge nor can afford to allocate your "mental RAM" to keeping an eye on your opponent cannons looking for a green glow so that you can predict it, it's not worth it.
    The thing is some players like to jump a lot while moving around the ship and can get lucky on a cursed cannon ball hit.
    I don't know if this is intentional or not because I think the game knows when you are on a ship, you get the same momentum as the ship so the system should some how know it. You can also try to jump off a ship right before anchor turning and see with your eyes that you'll move and rotate like if you still were on the ship for like 1 second.

    PS: Bonus thing about cursed cannon balls: the effect applies in a small AoE range, you can actually try this by docking your ship very close to a surface (a rock or some parts of a dock) and fire a cursed cannon ball, you'll see that even if you hit the object your ship still get the curse, as long as you are close enough.

  • I quite like the idea of them rotting away.

    But maybe an idea could be to make it inconveniently longer to load one (I'm talking 10-20seconds)
    This way, you load them before you start fighting and can use it to begin, but you can't just spam it over and over.

    Then it's something special to turn the tide of the fight, as opposed to putting your victim in an infinite loop of limping posion and dancing while their barrels are permanently locked, cannons facing the sky and boat spinning around because you jammed their wheel.

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