Double gunning solution

  • Okay so I think I came up with the perfect solution for all the double gunning in sea of thieves ! Please give this idea a chance!

    I propose that we try and use a primary secondary and tertiary weapon system meathod as seen before in previous games like titanfall and titanfall 2

    Elaboration :

    ● primary: the cutlass (fixed primary weapon, cannot be switched out for a firearm)

    ● Secondary: firearm of choice (optional on if you want to have the blunderbust, flintlock, or eye of reach)

    Here's were it gets interesting

    ● tertiary: this weapon is also optional (blunderbust, flintlock, or eye of reach) but when switching to your tertiary the speed in wich you switch to this weapon is punished and extensive. you have to hold the button in order to switch to this weapon , making it punishable if you don't succeed in landing your shot. This way if you switch from your secondary to your tertiary weapon it HAS to count or it will be fatal !

    I think this is a great idea and would love to see it at least make its way into testing with insiders !

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  • What do you mean, solution? It isn't a problem, it is a choice. I'm a sword/flintlock pirate most of the time, sometimes changing it up based on circumstances, and see no issue with people who choose to double gun.

    Just one of many loadout options one has, nothing to be solved here.

  • @redeyesith
    It has become a major issue , weather you are for it or against it , if your being honest about the gameplay differential there is an advantage to it especially if you are a sweat or someone that thrives on pvp

  • @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @redeyesith
    It has become a major issue , weather you are for it or against it , if your being honest about the gameplay differential there is an advantage to it especially if you are a sweat or someone that thrives on pvp

    Disagree on all counts.

  • @doritos-1996
    There is no issue. If you think double gun is op use it yourself and find the cons.

  • @doritos-1996 way more about sprint cancel than using two firearms. There is zero problems with varied loadouts, it's more about a select few who take advantage of some mechanic bugs.

  • Nobody wants the sword to be prime.
    Unknown really why but all the DG will throw a fit and that be a whole new issue.

    Besides. If they first fix the Hitreg then they can tweak the guns.

  • [mod edit]

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  • @doritos-1996

    Lol... can see all the sweaty double gunners with this suggestion.

    I like this solution 😇😁...
    So do you favor 5 shots per gun or 5 shots total?

    3 weapons is the solution. DPH pirates will hate this idea because it balances dph/dps

    I'm in favor of 5 shots per gun, but having a melee forced backup. If we're triple gunning, keep the delay on the 3rd.

    Any opposition to this idea makes you one of the problematic dg players and you should be nerfed. This would also eliminate Blundie/Sword nerf requests by said sweaty double gunners.

  • @doritos-1996
    What's dph and 5 shots per gun still , if this suggestion is balanced CORRECTLY it could really work !

  • @doritos-1996
    Whats a dph pirate

  • @doritos-1996

    dph is a general term for Damage per hit.

    dps is damage per second.

    One hits harder and one hits faster.

    In cooperation situations they're complimentary. In pvp situations they're usually dependent on the dev's preference. TTK (Time to kill) is balanced in IDEAL situations. SoT is a game that should be TTK, but skews in favor of dph.

    Simply put:

    Double gunners can do more damage in a shorter amount of time in pvp situations.

    Mixed players are good against bad players and endurance events.

    This suggestion requires a mixed play.

    (In B4 propaganda:)
    pvp fans are gonna hate it because it takes the TTK advantage away.

  • @pithyrumble
    That makes alot of sence no wonder everyone in here is getting all upset so far they probably know it will make it a little more difficult to get there pvp done so effectively

  • Lots of bold assumptions above (and a bit of masked derogatory language) considering I remain against this, have never been a double gunner in the entire lifespan of the game, and I'm pretty bad at PvP and typically flee since I mostly play solo. Yet, I remain opposed to this idea. I'm also sure I'm not the only one in this position.

  • @redeyesith I'm in the same position.
    I'm too lazy to ever really "git gud" at pvp. I use pistol and sword cos its cool and piratey.
    I have never really seen the issue with double gunning (at least todays variant, not ye old variant that was busted as hell). DG give up mobility, flexibility and only have 10 shots (they still have to hit those shots).
    I like that pirates have options, options are good.

  • I have a big opinion on this so I'll just keep it short, bad idea.

  • This is a solution to a non-existent problem. Highly skilled players will still kill those who are not highly skilled regardless of weapon choice, if you took all their weapons away they would gnaw you to death with their teeth.

  • @twisping
    I love how much everyone keeps saying this , it's not changing (taking) anything for the pvp ers they are not going to be worse off after something like this by any means, this doesn't change there accuracy by any means it just gives people WHO DONT double gun a fighting chance instead of getting instant killed 5 Seconds after spawn

  • @doritos-1996
    The problem isn't that its nota problem. Because it IS A PROBLEM! it's that people depend on it way to much and abuse it ! if your saying that it is not a problem it's probably because you never played the arena , or that you did and were one of those tdm players , it's toxic af

  • @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @twisping
    I love how much everyone keeps saying this , it's not changing (taking) anything for the pvp ers they are not going to be worse off after something like this by any means, this doesn't change there accuracy by any means it just gives people WHO DONT double gun a fighting chance instead of getting instant killed 5 Seconds after spawn

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996
    The problem isn't that its nota problem. Because it IS A PROBLEM! it's that people depend on it way to much and abuse it ! if your saying that it is not a problem it's probably because you never played the arena , or that you did and were one of those tdm players , it's toxic af

    Literally the scenarios you are describing are sniper/pistol or blunder quick swap. It has nothing to do with having two guns equipped. Also, at least you get 5 seconds after respawn and not constantly one-blundered. Count your blessings.

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  • After seeing how disgusting the meta with 2 weapons were, especially with the Eye of Reach and Blunderbuss combo. I kinda wish our weapon choices went back to SoT E3 2017, Cutlass, Flintlock and Blunderbuss were all weapons already on your person and you could slay out with a good short range damage dealer, a great mid-range weapon, and a fine wide area-range weapon that does a lot of damage.

    Would seem fun to me but at the same time, when a game has a meta, you can't change it, you either play with it, or against it. If you play against it, good luck lol. This suggestion will do nothing to help your issue with double gunning, and on top of that, the sword already ticks players off equally anyways, just spam the attack button and hold forward and you'll very likely win.

  • A Better "solution" to the non existent problem would be to remove sword and make it sea of double gunners or let us double gun with sword by allowing us to throw it.

    On a more serious note, if anything needs a rework its the sword.

  • @kommodoreyenser said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @twisping
    I love how much everyone keeps saying this , it's not changing (taking) anything for the pvp ers they are not going to be worse off after something like this by any means, this doesn't change there accuracy by any means it just gives people WHO DONT double gun a fighting chance instead of getting instant killed 5 Seconds after spawn

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996
    The problem isn't that its nota problem. Because it IS A PROBLEM! it's that people depend on it way to much and abuse it ! if your saying that it is not a problem it's probably because you never played the arena , or that you did and were one of those tdm players , it's toxic af

    Literally the scenarios you are describing are sniper/pistol or blunder quick swap. It has nothing to do with having two guns equipped. Also, at least you get 5 seconds after respawn and not constantly one-blundered. Count your blessings.

    The quick swap isn’t an issue regardless either because you can’t shoot any faster than the game allows. Quick swap only lets you ADS er and this is an intended design. Rare added this after wield animations were introduced to be able to ads after exiting a sprint for when you’re in a battle. I believe it has been measured and the difference between a regular swap and a quick one is that the quick swap is about 0.20 seconds faster so a fraction of a second. If you could actually shoot faster than the one second coded delay, THEN it would be a problem for which the solution would be increasing the the delay that doesn’t let you shoot.

  • @redeyesith

    Choices do in fact come with a lot of problems and, while I do not agree with the suggestion, I do think double gunning is a problem for multiple reasons, now more than ever as it was stated that hitscan will make its way into the Sea of Thieves. This will probably have an heavy impact on the game and its META.

    You can just eat bananas to heal, play on a rowboat or CHOOSE whatever play style you like, but freedom of choice doesn't mean all the choices are equal.
    Choices need more balancing, you should make sure that all the choices are balanced, which are currently not. It's even harder to balance Sea of Thieves choices for combat because the opponent crews size can vary. On top of all there's one thing even more important: balancing the game at all level of play which is what I think is the issue here: on an average level of play the META is fine as player do not abuse Double gunning the proper way, but there's a reason if like 90% of the sweaty PvP players use double gun and it's not necessarily a "choice" for all of them.

    Let's speak for high skilled matchups on 1v1:
    The issue with double gunning is that Blunder+EoR is a pretty powerful combo, an enemy with a cutlass has very low chances of outplaying its opponent:
    A. If the Sword player rushes the DG, the latter will shoot with the Blunder before he can get in sword range, as the role of the blunder here is not just to one shot people but mostly to set up the sniper kill by at least dealing 30 damage. At this point the sword player is completely at the mercy of the DG and his accuracy, cause he's one sniper shot away from death and won't be able to heal in time.
    B. If the Sword player somehow get in sword range, the DG will have two attempts to kill him as the Blunder can shoot, reload and shoot again before a sword can land enough hits to kill a player. The Sword player can jump around to make himself harder to hit but a good player do have high chances to hit you.
    C. If the Sword player has a Blunder as secondary Weapon he will still be on a big disadvantage because it won't change anything for the DG, the strategies above will still work.
    D. If the Sword player has an EoR (which is just the stronger version of the Flintlock, you see... you got the choice here too but one gun is just stronger than the other) he still has low chances, if you start aiming at the DB he'll probably rush at you with the blunder, putting you on that one-shot thresh hold, but you'd have a chance of winning here if you are able to side-dodge the blunder after hitting the DG with sniper, as it takes just two hits to kill him and he won't be able to reload; if he's too far away you'll exchange shots, probably heal back while the DG will try to slowly get closer enough to apply his strategy, which usually ends up in the DG win.

    This analysis doesn't consider the strongest weapon in the game: blunder bombs.

    So, DG (Blunder+EoR) role is to stay close range enough while still staying out of sword range which is pretty easy to do on 1v1, it's harder to kite multiple opponents but you also have the advantage of being able to one-shot one of them. A Flintlock+EoR instead wins automatically if he's far enough from the sword player (unless his aim is very bad), which usually makes it harder to do on sloops but works fine on galleons and is op on islands/underwater.

    The only game changer here are blunder bombs, while I am usually able to outplay medium leveled DG with my sword play, by doing the side dodge right when I think he's going to do the blunder shot and then rushing and spamming (if he gets me with the second blunder shot I'd still die, so I need to jump around as much as possible; this said), very good DGs won't allow you to do that, here Blunder bombs can be useful to disrupt, to get enemy's HP at 60 or lower and/or actually just kill with two good hits. But the DG can do such as well. (God Blunder Bombs are broken af)

    So yeah, on 1v1 situation DG is better than Sword IF the player has good aim, this is why I mentioned "balance at ALL level of play": Double gunning is a worse strategy FOR Low or medium skill pirates because of its difficulty and is not needed AGAINST low or medium skill pirates as they are not good enough to even counter the sword. DG is good for and against high skilled players.

    We could start going in-depth on multiple players fights too but that's where I think it's even more obvious how, for good players, DG is indeed better.
    On a 2v2 the Double Gunners will have to focus one of the players and, if done right, they will almost instantly find themselves in a 2v1 situation.
    On a 1v2 situation it starts getting harder to talk about high level of play, as in both instances the 2 opponents can try a one-shot by both shooting with their EoR, with the difference being that if they miss a shot DG could follow up with the blunder to easily kill the single guy, but the Sword players won't probably reload in time before the DG gets at least one of them. Even here both crews can coin flip it with blunder bombs.

    I don't think there's a point in talking of 1v3/4 at high level as that is really hard to win for anyone. But on low-medium skill level even I, who usually prefer to use the sword, feel forced to Double Gun when boarding Galleons. 1v4 with sword is the hardest as, out of blunder bombs, you do not have enough DPS to to get quickly rid of one player at a time and it is super hard to find an opening with the sword against multiple enemies: the best way to fight sword with sword is to wait for the opponent to miss his slash and instantly attack so that he gets staggered until the end of the combo without any chance of retaliation (but server issues). Against multiple enemies who will attack at slightly different moments it's almost impossible to find an opening and stagger them all together, while it's easier to one shot one and then kite while reloading, specially because the galleon has many tricks to disengage the fight (easiest of all: jump on the balcony from the wheel area, makes 90% of the average pirates think you fell).


    This said I also think that jumping around while shooting doesn't look great in a game like Sea of Thieves, it feels out of place for me. But this is just personal.

    PS: Also read the comment under this. TY

  • All of the above said, I think balancing the game could be done by reworking the Combat System all together, without having to limit Double Gunners (or Sword players, for who ask for this for reasons I still do not understand).

  • Sword can stun lock, prevent eating, knock you off ladder in one swipe, has infinite ammo, has the highest mobility in the game and on other players' screens it looks like you're hitting them from the other side of the boat, double gunning requires aim, knowledge of quickswapping and x cancelling just to be efficient, even then you could argue it falls behind sword even at peak "double gunning performance" (frame perfect quickswaps and x cancels). While I wouldn't mind seeing a third weapon slot, the way you try to justify adding a third slot I don't agree with. Double gunning in its current state is pretty bad with hitreg being so persistent that you can recreate it on an afk player, there is no need to nerf double gun really.

  • @chooboquay There's no need to nerf sword, either, except maybe slightly make the stun less. Damage wise, the sword is fine. Any less damage and it would be a wet noodle, and wouldn't compete at all in a largely two-gun-dominated meta.

  • It seems pretty balanced.

    A double gunner is going to beat a sword player in most long range situations.

    A sword/insert weapon player should be able to beat a double gunner in close range situations (like defending ladders).

    The issue is not double gunning but taking advantage of wonky mechanics for advantages (sprint glitch, DPI glitching, etc.).

    The fact that double gunners complain about sword players and sword players complain about double gunners makes me think balance is pretty close.

  • @illbushido305 said in Double gunning solution:

    @kommodoreyenser said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @twisping
    I love how much everyone keeps saying this , it's not changing (taking) anything for the pvp ers they are not going to be worse off after something like this by any means, this doesn't change there accuracy by any means it just gives people WHO DONT double gun a fighting chance instead of getting instant killed 5 Seconds after spawn

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996
    The problem isn't that its nota problem. Because it IS A PROBLEM! it's that people depend on it way to much and abuse it ! if your saying that it is not a problem it's probably because you never played the arena , or that you did and were one of those tdm players , it's toxic af

    Literally the scenarios you are describing are sniper/pistol or blunder quick swap. It has nothing to do with having two guns equipped. Also, at least you get 5 seconds after respawn and not constantly one-blundered. Count your blessings.

    The quick swap isn’t an issue regardless either because you can’t shoot any faster than the game allows. Quick swap only lets you ADS er and this is an intended design. Rare added this after wield animations were introduced to be able to ads after exiting a sprint for when you’re in a battle. I believe it has been measured and the difference between a regular swap and a quick one is that the quick swap is about 0.20 seconds faster so a fraction of a second. If you could actually shoot faster than the one second coded delay, THEN it would be a problem for which the solution would be increasing the the delay that doesn’t let you shoot.

    It’s been proven to death so I am not gonna continue but who shoots who faster:

    The one who’s quick swaps, aims, and shoots when the hard timer expires, or

    The one who swaps normally, aims after animation allows, then shoots?

  • As someone who doesn’t use double guns ever I don’t see the problem on what other players use we are pirates and no one said pirates fight fair I say we all fight dirty blunder bombs fire bomb double gun blade and gun run what you want everyone losses fight at some point

  • @kommodoreyenser said in Double gunning solution:

    @illbushido305 said in Double gunning solution:

    @kommodoreyenser said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @twisping
    I love how much everyone keeps saying this , it's not changing (taking) anything for the pvp ers they are not going to be worse off after something like this by any means, this doesn't change there accuracy by any means it just gives people WHO DONT double gun a fighting chance instead of getting instant killed 5 Seconds after spawn

    @doritos-1996 said in Double gunning solution:

    @doritos-1996
    The problem isn't that its nota problem. Because it IS A PROBLEM! it's that people depend on it way to much and abuse it ! if your saying that it is not a problem it's probably because you never played the arena , or that you did and were one of those tdm players , it's toxic af

    Literally the scenarios you are describing are sniper/pistol or blunder quick swap. It has nothing to do with having two guns equipped. Also, at least you get 5 seconds after respawn and not constantly one-blundered. Count your blessings.

    The quick swap isn’t an issue regardless either because you can’t shoot any faster than the game allows. Quick swap only lets you ADS er and this is an intended design. Rare added this after wield animations were introduced to be able to ads after exiting a sprint for when you’re in a battle. I believe it has been measured and the difference between a regular swap and a quick one is that the quick swap is about 0.20 seconds faster so a fraction of a second. If you could actually shoot faster than the one second coded delay, THEN it would be a problem for which the solution would be increasing the the delay that doesn’t let you shoot.

    It’s been proven to death so I am not gonna continue but who shoots who faster:

    The one who’s quick swaps, aims, and shoots when the hard timer expires, or

    The one who swaps normally, aims after animation allows, then shoots?

    What’s been proven to death? My info comes from Twitter where someone posted a side by side of both ways and it is in fact a fraction of a second so there’s no argument there if there’s video evidence with a timer.
    Now, in response to your question, the person that quick swaps would shoot the fraction of a second faster which isn’t even noticeable. In my experience, lobbies usually have almost all cutlass users and maybe one or two people using two guns in a tuck outfit jumping around missing shots. If it were actually op I’m sure most would use two guns instead but currently the cutlass wins most fights in the right hands. I personally use both cutlass and double gun load outs simply depending on what I’m doing. In a meg encounter for example it’s pointless having a cutlass. That’s my take anyway.

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