Sea of Thieves advertisement problems

@musicmee I think the real issue about the lacking in the advertisement is that it's not as brutal as it is in the game. Pirates are pirates and all that, but people genuinely find more entertainment in the adventure aspect.

Dealing with Pirates, utilizing different weapons, accepting inevitable failure, rude communications, this kind of stuff is seriously important to understand for a shared world adventure game, and the growing pains shouldn't be experiencing your first spawn camp before you turn in your first chest ever or tackle your first world event with people that don't know what to expect.

PvP isn't introduced in an ease like many other things, it goes hardcore based on the crew and their skills, new players that don't have a good enough idea of what they installed aren't ready for that, and no website explanation, official youtube video, or forum post will make preparations any better I find sadly.

I've said it sarcastic before but sell it as a pvp game that has other stuff to do.

The pvp aspect gets underrepresented in adverts I see. Unless they watch a twitch partner...

I mean a lot of games don’t advertise everything that could happen to them.

Halo doesn’t advertise that when I’m killed, the enemy would tbag me every time. :/

I think it's partly a by-product of the game trying to do so much. The devs have to advertise new content - that new content is inevitably not PvP focussed, so PvP doesn't get advertised.

@guyrza

I agree with this, the vibe most seen trailers give is just the idea "Pirate Adventure" part.

@scurvywoof

If they didn’t read the game description, that’s their fault. PvEvP!

I think this is very superficial.
A lot of player try the game for the pirate adventure stuff, get brutally killed, lose their loot and then won't open the game again. Not necessarily because they wouldn't enjoy that kind of experience but possibly because they weren't prepared for that, they had other expectations and feeling what a new player would feel as "lost progress" hits way harder.
"haha unlucky, it's their fault for not doing enough research about the product" in the meanwhile SoT has lost a player. It's Devs job to make the public perceive the game as it truly is, it's their job to make people prepared for what they are going to play (through ads and tutorials), it's not on the consumer or, to put it in other words, it won't be a problem for the customer.

If the consumer misunderstand the product, buys it and then ask for a refund when the product doesn't meet his expectations he just go find another game.
When Devs fail to attract a possible customer they lose him, possibly forever and that's not good for the game.

@wolfmanbush the problem is you have the average 9-5 person having issues with games like these because they pose unnecessary challenges and interactions that are funnily enough, caused by anonymous children with a CS:GO career behind them.

Game Pass Users also kinda jump into this game with only official trailers from the download page and that's about it. The game needs to do a better job of not only player retention, but also leaving good/correct first impressions asap, because you can have 3 good sessions and every other session is a spawncamp simulator that you know damn well will upset a lot of people who simply don't have the emotional capabilities of handling this game.

To add to that, this weaker player retention is also part of the overall player number statistic, we're reaching milestones in player numbers but the seas absolutely don't feel like that, and I know people in AUS/OCE can agree with me there. Something regarding that needs improving, and letting people know that despite this being an adventure game, it is also an intense combat game that you can't ignore. Something that needs to be somewhere obvious before you spawn in a tavern is only the slightest of recommendations I can suggest for something as simple as advertising and showcasing the game.

If your partnered content creators have to tell their viewers something important about the game's basic environment you don't even hint at in your official content, you might want to help drive a realistic perspective than reeling in Game Pass casuals that are too soft for this game to go ham on the Pirate Emporium.

I do think trailers for updates and the game in general should feature more PvP.

@scurvywoof

1. I personally disagree. On this matter is just about speculation since we both can't afford a big enough sample of players to analyze to be statistically relevant. I personally perceive casuals as a very big slice of the public which tends not to be really informed about the game they play, they simply get hyped by a trailer and buy the game, or try them on the game pass.

2. You don't need to guarantee me anything, you need to go on youtube, write "sea of thieves" and search only for the last month videos and order them by views.

3. I still think that saying it's "player's fault" is missing the point. As said, when a player leaves the game because it doesn't met his expectation it changes nothing to him, he'll just pick another game.
   On Rare side tho they've lost a customer, possibly for ever; since it's their job to make people discover the game, download it and stay, that's on them.
   Also it's not like people do not understand PvP is in SoT, they do not understand the implication of it, like: losing the loot you worked for or being disturbed even when you just want to chill.

Lots of popular games can be marketed as "Shared Adventure":

• GTA
• World of Warcraft
• Red Dead Redemption

Many of which PvP is usually flagged and optional in some way. Sea of Thieves is fairly UNIQUE and AWESOME because you can be attacked at any time but I can't say that new players are inherently aware that it's always possible. I also listed two M rated games that (laughably) despite their gangster portrayal actually pamper their player base and cater mostly to players who have little tolerance for losing.

@musicmee

What is your opinion on this link https://www.seaofthieves.com/game-info omitting the fact that players can actually thief from other players? Literally all it needs to say is STEAL FROM OTHER CREWS AT ANY TIME. But come on, Marketing straight up knew it was a bad idea.

One of the original trailers for the game, think it was the first gameplay trailer, literally focused on crew interactions and crew vs crew battles. Not to mention the game has always been mentioned as a "Shared world". According to psychology, you will have people who feel sore from the loss and instead of admitting fault, they will rather blame an external factor like the game or their opponent for their mistake in order to protect their ego.

@guyrza
The advertisements glorify combat. To those that don't want combat, they ignore those parts (usually subconciously).
Here is the E3 announce trailer for Sea of Thieves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z48qvGsA_0&t=109s

---

While not many see this nowadays, you can see right from the beginning that they had PvP advertised. And if a person decides to start playing SoT based on, say, the A Pirate's Life trailer, then it's not like their going to get an accurate description of the game, only the update.

In the end, I will always blame the players if they don't see this game for what it is before buying it. It's made clear if they only look in the right spot.

Goodness, all it takes is a scroll of the forums to find someone lamenting about PvP in some way...

@touchiertooth28

What is your opinion on this link https://www.seaofthieves.com/game-info omitting the fact that players can actually thief from other players? Literally all it needs to say is STEAL FROM OTHER CREWS AT ANY TIME. But come on, Marketing straight up knew it was a bad idea.

Go to that link. Hit the "Find out more" on the first topic, "Action and Adventure." Then scroll to the fourth topic, "Intense Sea Combat," which literally talks about learning how to defend yourself from other ships. It's not that the warnings aren't there, it's just that most don't look at what a game is about before buying.

A person reading in game info would most likely hit the first topic, then scroll as they read, eventually reading the "Intense Sea Combat" section. So if they were looking here, they would be seeing that aspect of the game. But it is 100x easier to find that anywhere else, if only you would look.

@burnbacon said in Sea of Thieves advertisement problems:

I mean a lot of games don’t advertise everything that could happen to them.

Halo doesn’t advertise that when I’m killed, the enemy would tbag me every time. :/

This gets an upvote because it's hilariously true.

Even if they better advertised SOT as a PvP game, it still won't prepare people for how helpless they're likely going to feel in their first loss.

That first time you know you're about to be in battle. This is it, this is not a drill. You realize you're taking a bad angle. Your mast gets taken down. You try to raise the mast just like they taught you in the maiden voyage. Thinking you're doing pretty good so far, you hear what sounds like the same audio cue you get when you come up the ladder. You try to prepare yourself for your first hand to hand combat and blam blam you get double gunned before you even get to swing your sword. Your assailant spams "Rolls on Deck Laughing" in the text chat. You hear cannon shot after cannon shot entering your hull before you realize you need to release your soul to the ferry. You wait patiently for the door to open thinking of what you could've done differently, how you wish you could've used all your other gaming skills on that crew. You walk through the doors and find yourself on an island with your ship sitting in front of you. No loot onboard. None of the supplies you remember gathering. It's your first loss. It is for some reason way more devastating than any virtual "L" you've taken in recent memory.

No amount of PvP advertising can prepare you for that.

@grumpyw01f

The point I was trying to make is that many games glorify combat, including games like GTA (Theft is even in the title), and those games don't have a persistent PvP system because quite frankly they cater to ... a more general audience. As a result, people may be surprised when they don't have a choice as to when another player is allowed to attack them. It is not made clear that you can battle any crew you see, at anytime you see them. That's literally 12 words that very clearly explain an integral part of the game but it's not explicitly stated.

Here is an excerpt:

EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED
The ever-changing world of Sea of Thieves can catch even experienced pirates off-guard. Uncovering a long-lost message in a bottle or spotting a cursed treasure in the sand can send you and your crew sailing headlong in a whole new direction.
Even a quick trip to an Outpost for supplies can be made chaotic and challenging when a storm rolls in or the fog begins to gather. You might find that your destination has been occupied by a deadly threat, leading to a life-and-death struggle before you can claim your hard-won loot.

They talk about storms, fog, lost messages, cursed treasure, but that "deadly threat" is pretty unidentifiable.

BATTLE OTHER PLAYERS
Whether it’s tussling over treasure or keeping your ship’s supplies safe from rival pirates, the time will come when you’ll want to take up arms against other players. You can lock blades in a head-on confrontation, or make clever use of your surroundings to gain the advantage.
Any pirate who falls in battle will be returned to the seas before long, so there’s no need to shy away from a good brawl. Your sword-fighting skills can also be sharpened in The Arena, a structured take on PvP combat that sees competing crews racing to claim the most silver in short, focused contests.

Oh, finally we've reached other players, near the end of the page, but thank goodness its at least there. But the time will come when I want to to battle other players presumably in the Arena, whatever that is. A more accurate account would be:

BATTLE OTHER PLAYERS
You may battle any crew you come across on the seas, so use your spyglass and make sure to notice them before they notice you! Every ship is equipped with cannons for firing, check that your crew knows where to point them. Pirates who fall in battle will be returned to the seas before long, so there’s no need to shy away from a good brawl. Your sword-fighting skills can also be sharpened in The Arena, a structured take on PvP combat that sees competing crews racing to claim the most silver in short, focused contests.

@guyrza This game has the most TOXIC community of any game I've ever played. 50% of the players i come across are absolute lowlifes

@touchiertooth28
So you reply to me with excerpts but none from the actual topic I was talking about?
Here's the excerpt from "Intense Sea Combat:"

A pirate’s ship is their home away from home, and you’ll need to defend yours! Learning to master your cannons, harpoons and sails can give you the edge in battle and prove the difference between a triumphant homecoming and sinking helplessly beneath the waves.

There are plenty of opportunities to practise tactics and cunning in any fight, whether you’re wielding valuable Cursed Cannonballs to incapacitate an enemy crew and their ship, toppling their masts with a precision chainshot strike or even launching a pirate boarding party from your cannons.

The point is clear.

this is what i see…very toxic community that hides behind “its a sandbox game” or “im a pirate” and thus say they can do whatever they want because there are no rules…sure you can do whatever you want doesnt mean its not toxic…some dont understand this concept. its just like real life; you can do whatever you want…doesnt mean what your doing isnt bad or good…rare is very smart by not showing so much pvp because it would just turn people away. majority of the player base are pve and thus they cater to those people more and more to get more player retention. they know they lose players because of the pvp

@madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves advertisement problems:

this is what i see…very toxic community that hides behind “its a sandbox game” or “im a pirate” and thus say they can do whatever they want because there are no rules…sure you can do whatever you want doesnt mean its not toxic…some dont understand this concept. its just like real life; you can do whatever you want…doesnt mean what your doing isnt bad or good…rare is very smart by not showing so much pvp because it would just turn people away. majority of the player base are pve and thus they cater to those people more and more to get more player retention. they know they lose players because of the pvp

Actually it means exactly that. Playing the evil pirate that sinks eveyone isnt toxic. Waiting till you have finished an event/quest to rob you blind isnt toxic. Killing another crew because I can or because they are in my way isnt toxic. I can also give you all of my supplies before getting off and isnt toxic.

Good vs evil is not the same as non-toxic vs toxic.

I have noticed a trend with people who complain about player combat in this game and getting sunk/losing the loot they stupidly stacked for 1+hours. They all come from single player or co-op primary backgrounds. They may have played some FPS games but mostly the offline campaigns or co-op campaigns. This game kind of melds a few different game styles in one and it is an online-only game. I also bet that they haven't spent much time in a multiplayer online environment of any kind if they complain about the vocabulary of others specific to this game. I have experienced that for decades at this point in all sorts of different types of online games that allow communication.

This is why people tell those types that this may not be the game for them if they just want relax and grind something. There are many games that allow this, hundreds if not thousands. If they stepped from this game into something like any other FPS game's multiplayer matches or even worse, Tarkov, they would have a stroke in the first match. If they truly like this game then they need to learn to take the good with the bad, learn to sell often and not try to hit grade 5 emissary every time or even raise it in the first place, learn good defense and selling on the move techniques, etc.

@grumpyw01f

It's clear that there is PvP. It's not clear that you can attack any crew at any time. needing to defend against what? It's really easy to read all of that without the context that you're going to be defending against another player and sometimes not with your consent to battle. I'm pointing out that it's a VERY simple thing to state--but on a page with many paragraphs it's never explicitly said, only hinted at.

Jeez!

@wolfmanbush this is where we disagree lol to me something can be toxic that doesnt break rules i.e. guy is driving in his lane of traffic…car tries to merge into his lane and the other car speeds up to block car from merging and causes an accident..,in law the car merging is at fault for failure to yield properly to merge safely. however, the guy speeding up to block is very bad (toxic) for what he did…but didnt break the law. nothing wrong with attacking another ship…its when you go the extra mile to say tuck on an island like reapers hideout with no boat or tuck behind an island and wait for someone to finish a world event…to me that goes into toxic territory.

@touchiertooth28 said in Sea of Thieves advertisement problems:

@grumpyw01f

It's clear that there is PvP. It's not clear that you can attack any crew at any time. needing to defend against what? It's really easy to read all of that without the context that you're going to be defending against another player and sometimes not with your consent to battle. I'm pointing out that it's a VERY simple thing to state--but on a page with many paragraphs it's never explicitly said, only hinted at.

Jeez!

The picture at that point on the site and the paragraphs make it clear that the threat you need to defend against is other players. And needing to defend means that you aren't complicit in the interaction.

And, again, this information is 100x easier to find anywhere else on the internet. All I am stating is that the site is not a half-baked view of Sea of Thieves. Combat is glorified and people who don't like combat often ignore those parts or read it as something entirely. But that's not the site's fault.

I don't know if there is anything else on the site. When you made your initial argument that the Game Info part of the site doesn't talk about PvP, I went there to check and found a paragraph about PvP in less than a minute.

There are no Sea of Thieves commercials. Then how are people being attracted to this game? The biggest attractors are probably friends to friends, viewership on twitch, and it being free on Game Pass.

1. A friend should be able to tell you if the game has PvP at all times.
2. Most streams have PvP, quite a lot of them are focused on it.

---

3. The first two videos on Xbox's SoT page have PvP.
   And here is the first two paragraphs in the description of SoT on Xbox:

Sea of Thieves offers the essential pirate experience from sailing and fighting to exploring and looting - everything you need to live the pirate life and become a legend in your own right. With no set roles, you have complete freedom to approach the world, and other players, however you choose.
Whether you're voyaging as a group or sailing solo, you're bound to encounter other crews in this shared world adventure - but will they be friends or foes, and how will you respond?

I think it's pretty clear what you should get out of reading that paragraph.

---

When people say that they didn't know about the game before purchasing it, it's either their fault or they're lying about that to make their argument more persuasive. Not to mention, they can get a refund as long as they haven't spent too much time in-game. By the way that everyone complains that they got spawncamped the first time they played, it shouldn't be too hard to see the PvP before that time has passed.

Just take the menus at the title screen, where on the title screen does it ask you if you want to be placed in a PvP or a PvE server? Most of this "not knowing about the PvP aspect of the game" is willful ignorance in my opinion.

@madfrito99 Still not toxic. Tucking is a valid gameplay strategy. If you lose your loot due to a tucker, it's your own fault for not keeping an eye out for mermaids and what not.

Looks like it's time to distribute copies of these once more: