FOMO content is bad game design

  • Magus104
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    4 years ago i bought into Rares bad game design ethics. All my friends quit Sea of Thieves never to return but I was stupid enough to buy into the FOMO design. This ruined gaming for me because I HAD to play sea of thieves or I would miss out on the TIME LIMITED cosmetics. Designing cosmetics, and content costs the company money. So making these resources time limited to where all that work gets deleted from the game 2 weeks later is not just bad game design but insanely poor business practices. Now 4 years ago the game desperately needed content. So deleting all the commendations to unlock the doubloons and also deleting the things from the event just seemed silly. You had a huge list of temporary things added to the game that returning players or even new players could engage with. Instead after 1 year of temporary updates people who would return to SoT would find the game hadnt changed at all. Same shallow game lacking content because all the content you had been putting out had this silly time limited FOMO mentality behind the design.

    Look at Halloween.... Even then you added pumpkins to the islands by hand. They have only appearing in game like every other year because you didnt make it a simple toggle on or off option you hand crafted it all to then just delete it all by hand after..... Work smarter not harder....

    Now here we are again. For some reason were resetting back to the old mind set of temporary content. Well between work and having planned on playing another game for the month of feb into early mar I dont have time to play SoT which means I would miss the first FOMO event which then in all likely hood means I cant complete any cosmetic set it might have rewarded which then means why bother playing any of the other FOMO events?

    This is just dumb game design. Whoever keeps thinking this is a good idea really needs to be "promoted" off the team.

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  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    If you don't have time to play Sea of Thieves, why do you care about a compass and title you'll likely never use?

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    The seas are very salty…

    In before lock 🔒

  • Captain Coel
    Commander
    Insider

    @magus104 Ive been here since the beginning. I miss the old short run events. And even better these new events are not only short, but packed with story.

    I am more excited than ever to watch the world evolve and see the new content come onto the game. Rare is also taking care to consider the more casual player, this adventure only require 45-90 minutes to complete. the next adventure is in like 5 weeks.

    If you dont like this, maybe its time to miss something or take more time away from the game. For me it felt good to get the gang together and go on an adventure.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    FOMO in general can go either way imo

    a couple of weeks for some simple and non grindy gameplay isn't too much to ask of people in an online experience that thrives on activity. It's within the sweet spot imo

    It's gone too far in the past but it's improved noticeably and significantly for the better imo.

  • Musicmee
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @scurvywoof There's a lock?... I only know anchors...

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    FOMO has been built into the game design since day 1 and has remained heavily present since. if its not this story content which will disappear in 2 weeks as you say its mini events which happen over the weekend, or forcing you to watch a twitch stream every day for a week to them instilling fear in players minds about them removing an aspect of the game and not giving people time to finish commendations etc off before its gone.

    it probably shouldn't come as a surprise to you by now.

    i agree with you that FOMO game design is terrible game design but you nor i get a say in its development and its the way SOT is so you just kinda have to deal with it if you want to play it.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @musicmee said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @scurvywoof There's a lock?... I only know anchors...

    I only know of capstans, which are known for not being centered!

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    because I HAD to play sea of thieves or I would miss out on the TIME LIMITED cosmetics.

    You DIDNT have to do anything. It only ingame rewards which you can play the game without.

    Unless your one of those kids who feels inferior to others when they show off

  • Cpt Redmane
    Ship Mate
    Insider
    Founder

    @burnbacon

    Actually, FOMO content by design instills a sense of "I MUST get this thing now if i have even the slightest interest"

    It's an incredibly predatory way to get an active playerbase.

    The only mechanic more predatory is the lootbox, which is just gambling. And even that can be made worse with FOMO time-limited boxes.

    In a perfect game, they'd design content that would get people excited to play, Rare went a different way.

    They implement shallow mechanics/things to do, where you'll do them a couple of times and then be done forever.

    Where the major draw each season isn't the actual content for most people but rather the FOMO items.

  • CGallerine
    Commander
    Insider

    Actually, quite the opposite: FOMO is good for business, it only sucks for those people unfortunate enough to miss out. The only times it sucks is when you have less than a day or two.

  • Minhoca SoT
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    The vast majority of time-limited items can be acquired in a short time, this Adventure, even playing solo without any tutorial can be done in less than an hour.

    So, if you don't have an hour to play in a two-week period, I suggest managing your time better or simply looking for a game with fast enough matches.
    Although I don't know of any current game where the game, including the waiting time before it and the time to start the game, is less than half an hour.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    @cpt-redmane said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    In a perfect game, they'd design content that would get people excited to play, Rare went a different way.

    This current adventure approach is exactly that.

    It's not random annoying objectives like it has been before. It's a full on tall talesque mystery with new environmental happenings and implemented lore

    Many people have played this game for thousands and thousands of hours and still get excited to sail.

  • Cpt Redmane
    Ship Mate
    Insider
    Founder

    @wolfmanbush

    If you enjoy it that's great, i'm happy for you.

    I found it to be pretty shallow honestly.

    It was good for the lore/story but gameplay wise i was pretty let down.

    If it didn't have those FOMO items i probably would've quit before finishing it.

    And i'm saying that as someone whose favorite content in the game IS the talltales.

  • RedheadedSquid
    Sailor

    I disagree. I like the FOMO when it’s small stuff. It took me and my crew maybe an hour to complete this and it’s staying for what 2 weeks? I personally wouldn’t want the islands shrouded forever so I think it’s fine

  • Ninja Naranja
    Champion
    Insider

    @cpt-redmane how long have you been playing? Because the amount of permanent content they’ve added over the years is quite a bit. The points you bring up is only really a problem for collectors or completionists, which are a small minority. Most players won’t care about getting everything done. I know most of my friends don’t.

    And in reality, way more stuff gets added to the game than taken away. Just look at last year:
    -5 new Tall Tales
    -1 new voyage
    -1 new event
    -9 new locations
    -Tons of new gameplay features
    -And the most cosmetics we’ve received in a single year over the game’s entire lifecycle.
    And all that is staying permanently.

  • Cpt Redmane
    Ship Mate
    Insider
    Founder

    @ninja-naranja

    Quite awhile, little before season 1 i think. And with cosmetics being the main progression in the game, ofc having FOMO cosmetics will be a problem.

    And while i agree a lot gets added, most of it only takes doing it once or a couple times before it starts getting repetitive.

    Once i completed those 5 new tall tales i really have no reason to replay them, nor do i really want to. I've done them, i've seen what they have to offer.

    And while voyages ARE great they do tend to wear out their welcome after awhile.

    events don't really apply to me as a solo player, i rarely do them.

    9 new locations...? the siren shrines? i do like those, but once you do them a couple of times they lose their magic.

    I do like the new gameplay features, for the most part anyway.

    Honestly my main problem with sea of thieves is the same problem i've always had with it. They add all these neat sounding mechanics/voyages/events but most of them are as deep as a puddle and they get boring after doing them a couple of times.

    You may think that i hate the game from that but i don't, for the most part i enjoy it. Doesn't mean i don't have some very real issues with it though.

  • JaegerDelta3465
    Marauder

    If you try to be a completionist. I mean I guess? it's a continuous service game, of course there are limited time events, that's how all continuous service games work. If things weren't temporary how immersion breaking would the world be? Merrick camped out, the reapers hideout being built, and the reapers hideout being finished all at the same time?

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @cpt-redmane said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    Honestly my main problem with sea of thieves is the same problem i've always had with it. They add all these neat sounding mechanics/voyages/events but most of them are as deep as a puddle and they get boring after doing them a couple of times.

    Tbh i think this is just human nature. Doing anything a few too many times makes one bored of it. Not much Rare can do about that.

    What Rare can do, however, is perhaps make more harder commedations and link cosmetics to them, as even the somewhat newer "hard" commendations like handing in 30 Breath of the Seas is not that difficult. Same goes with posting 25 maps with 5 pieces of treasure.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    Time limited content definitely has its place in gaming. WoW is probably the most guilty of time limited content creators...I'd say they have made it a pretty successful model. The answer is definitely somewhere in the middle. If there's one thing this game doesn't need more of, it's overly grindy and repetitive commendations. Something can be challenging and offer a reward without making you do it 25, 50, 100+ times. I think THAT is the content that's missing from this game.

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    @magus104 said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    4 years ago i bought into Rares bad game design ethics. All my friends quit Sea of Thieves never to return but I was stupid enough to buy into the FOMO design. This ruined gaming for me because I HAD to play sea of thieves or I would miss out on the TIME LIMITED cosmetics.

    This is not a sign of bad game design. This is a sign of problematic thinking on your part. Enjoy the parts of the game that you want to, during the times that you want to play, and appreciate the cosmetics you earn. Meanwhile, find acceptance that there are items you don’t have. Not having them does not make you less powerful. You have your own stories and the keepsakes you collected during those stories. Your collection of items is unique to you. I feel confident that at the end of your life, you will not be concerned that you never earned the full set of sails from the Cursed Sails or Festival of the Damned events. But you might regret feeling compelled to collect them if doing so is not enjoyable for you or it leads you to neglect things that you would have valued more. The game won’t exist in a few years. Acceptance can be very powerful.

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
    Insider

    I agree with you to a certain extent, like it depends on the circumstance. With cosmetics it's acceptable, but the problem lies in adventures and story. The reasoning is that basically, it's time wasted on the devs and the base game doesn't really see any improvements with these type of content. The FOMO belief system shouldn't be front and center because the game doesn't really progress, content removed after a season doesn't add anything new, it's just replaced by different elements and if the game lacks content, will still continue to lack content. The idea of creating time limited stories is horrible because players who aren't part of the experience might miss out, then they are lost when new story elements are added into the game.

    @ghostpaw it depends on what part of the game design has the FOMO ideology. If it's a voyage or adventure, then yes, it is a horrible game design

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    @red0demon0 said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    I agree with you to a certain extent, like it depends on the circumstance. With cosmetics it's acceptable, but the problem lies in adventures and story. The reasoning is that basically, it's time wasted on the devs and the base game doesn't really see any improvements with these type of content. The FOMO belief system shouldn't be front and center because the game doesn't really progress, content removed after a season doesn't add anything new, it's just replaced by different elements and if the game lacks content, will still continue to lack content. The idea of creating time limited stories is horrible because players who aren't part of the experience might miss out, then they are lost when new story elements are added into the game.

    So the game should remain static from day one? That’s a no from me. Stories in this world occurred before we ever stepped foot into the game. Things are going on elsewhere beyond what we witness. It gave us a chance to ask what happened to Captain Warsmith, where did Merrick go, and what is Duke up to? Piecing all that together gives us a mystery to solve and gives the game depth. Some players were not there for the Hungering Deep or Cursed Sails events, but they can hear about them from others and from sources across the Internet. I am not interested in the game just remaining stagnant year after year. I want to see the story unfold and the world to evolve. It feels more alive that way.

  • Ninja Naranja
    Champion
    Insider

    @cpt-redmane that’s completely fair. While I don’t get burnt out on new content quite as fast, some things in the game could use more replayability. I could see as well that as a solo players there’s less to do. I was a solo player for a lot of the first 2 and a half years, and there were certain things I felt like I couldn’t do.

    I think part of it too is perspective. I’m a ship cosmetic collector. I’ll do anything and everything to get ship cosmetics. Sure it can be a grind but I’ve limited myself to a reasonable grind. Unlike collecting every cosmetic would be.

    In terms of limited time cosmetics I’ve definitely missed some. Never ship cosmetics thankfully but I try to weigh the time investment with wether or not I think I’ll actually use it. The Ruby Eyepatch from last year is a good example. I didn’t think that soloing Thieves Haven Runs was worth an eyepatch I wasn’t going to use. So I didn’t. This compass from the adventure looks sick IMO and the adventure takes about an hour so in my eyes that’s absolutely worth it.

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
    Insider

    @ghostpaw FOMO ideology, removes content, it keeps the game in a static state. Imagine if everything in the game was FOMO. The megladons out at sea used to be a FOMO design. It was the 1st update the game had, and was removed after the event was over. Devs didn't add them back in until much Later, around the 3rd or 4th update to the game. Can you imagine if they, nor the cursed ships were added to the game after the event was over? Or if all the world events never came back after their event was over? Most of the "pieces" of lore used to be actual experiences, before they were replaced by lore books. Yes, necessary to move the overall progress of the lore, which is fine (As is changes to islands), but one can't deny that the content was replaced by a less stimulating experience. It's not black and white, like I said, it depends on where it is used. Tall tales and voyages should not have FOMO content ideology because what we need is more choices to go on different adventures, more adventures where we as players get to experience them and create our own unique stories in them. That should be what moves the game along.

  • Ghostpaw
    Legend

    @red0demon0 You do realize the events you mentioned were used to introduce new elements into the game, right? The events were time limited but their impacts remained. I am glad that the devs took time to put these new aspects into the game in a way that felt like it was actually happening.

  • Nitroxien
    Captain
    Insider

    The problem with time limited cosmetics were for them to exist in the first place. I would be more than happy for all time limited cosmetics to return to the game and stop this FOMO entirely HOWEVER this cannot just be implemented now.

    It is no surprise players like to brag and show off time limited cosmetics which is natural, but the problem comes in when new players cannot have their own time limited items and only vets can. Vets claim that it is important to keep time limited items to tell their pirates story and to remove that now would just mean new players stories don't matter as much and they are worth less than Y1 players.

    If they stop time limited cosmetics now new players will never get anything to brag about on their own and returning Y1 players who may have stopped playing would be able to return and make up everything they missed while newer players cannot.

    Now Rare kind of shot themselves in the foot with this with the PL curse which is the ONLY good "time limited" item from early seasons and the only good way to show players were there. Now when Rare brings it back S1 players are gonna feel like their time did not matter since they did not get a single good time limited cosmetic while Y1 and Y2 players can still brag of all the time limited stuff they got.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @nitroxien said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    The problem with time limited cosmetics were for them to exist in the first place. I would be more than happy for all time limited cosmetics to return to the game and stop this FOMO entirely HOWEVER this cannot just be implemented now.

    It is no surprise players like to brag and show off time limited cosmetics which is natural, but the problem comes in when new players cannot have their own time limited items and only vets can. Vets claim that it is important to keep time limited items to tell their pirates story and to remove that now would just mean new players stories don't matter as much and they are worth less than Y1 players.

    If they stop time limited cosmetics now new players will never get anything to brag about on their own and returning Y1 players who may have stopped playing would be able to return and make up everything they missed while newer players cannot.

    Now Rare kind of shot themselves in the foot with this with the PL curse which is the ONLY good "time limited" item from early seasons and the only good way to show players were there. Now when Rare brings it back S1 players are gonna feel like their time did not matter since they did not get a single good time limited cosmetic while Y1 and Y2 players can still brag of all the time limited stuff they got.

    I believe this is why Rare has stalled the rerelease of all these free season cosmetics. They know that there will be a ton of people who'll be mad about them being added back, and know they have to walk a very fine line to try and appease most of these players, which still won't work. Should've just made recolors of the Battlepass sets, and keep the og stuff exclusive

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @nitroxien said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    The problem with time limited cosmetics were for them to exist in the first place. I would be more than happy for all time limited cosmetics to return to the game and stop this FOMO entirely HOWEVER this cannot just be implemented now.

    It is no surprise players like to brag and show off time limited cosmetics which is natural, but the problem comes in when new players cannot have their own time limited items and only vets can. Vets claim that it is important to keep time limited items to tell their pirates story and to remove that now would just mean new players stories don't matter as much and they are worth less than Y1 players.

    If they stop time limited cosmetics now new players will never get anything to brag about on their own and returning Y1 players who may have stopped playing would be able to return and make up everything they missed while newer players cannot.

    Now Rare kind of shot themselves in the foot with this with the PL curse which is the ONLY good "time limited" item from early seasons and the only good way to show players were there. Now when Rare brings it back S1 players are gonna feel like their time did not matter since they did not get a single good time limited cosmetic while Y1 and Y2 players can still brag of all the time limited stuff they got.

    I believe this is why Rare has stalled the rerelease of all these free season cosmetics. They know that there will be a ton of people who'll be mad about them being added back, and know they have to walk a very fine line to try and appease most of these players, which still won't work. Should've just made recolors of the Battlepass sets, and keep the og stuff exclusive

    Every person being mad at them added back in shops and/or behind commendations is being "silly", it's been known from the start that all those things (except for the Season named ones) would return. People who progressed during the Seasons got first use of those items, not exclusivity.

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @lem0n-curry said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @el-spaniardchi said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @nitroxien said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    The problem with time limited cosmetics were for them to exist in the first place. I would be more than happy for all time limited cosmetics to return to the game and stop this FOMO entirely HOWEVER this cannot just be implemented now.

    It is no surprise players like to brag and show off time limited cosmetics which is natural, but the problem comes in when new players cannot have their own time limited items and only vets can. Vets claim that it is important to keep time limited items to tell their pirates story and to remove that now would just mean new players stories don't matter as much and they are worth less than Y1 players.

    If they stop time limited cosmetics now new players will never get anything to brag about on their own and returning Y1 players who may have stopped playing would be able to return and make up everything they missed while newer players cannot.

    Now Rare kind of shot themselves in the foot with this with the PL curse which is the ONLY good "time limited" item from early seasons and the only good way to show players were there. Now when Rare brings it back S1 players are gonna feel like their time did not matter since they did not get a single good time limited cosmetic while Y1 and Y2 players can still brag of all the time limited stuff they got.

    I believe this is why Rare has stalled the rerelease of all these free season cosmetics. They know that there will be a ton of people who'll be mad about them being added back, and know they have to walk a very fine line to try and appease most of these players, which still won't work. Should've just made recolors of the Battlepass sets, and keep the og stuff exclusive

    Every person being mad at them added back in shops and/or behind commendations is being "silly", it's been known from the start that all those things (except for the Season named ones) would return. People who progressed during the Seasons got first use of those items, not exclusivity.

    Agreed! Doesn't mean people won't be pleased, and not understand Rare does try their best to make it fair for everyone. Although I still stand by my reskin idea, at least as a way to change up the current very boring pattern of admiral, bilge rat, sea dog e.t.c reskins.

  • Nitroxien
    Captain
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi yeah I agree definitely why we have not seen the PL curse returned yet and players have the right to be mad tbh due to their being no other good time limited items for the time for some reason...

  • El Spaniardchi
    Marauder

    @nitroxien said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @el-spaniardchi yeah I agree definitely why we have not seen the PL curse returned yet and players have the right to be mad tbh due to their being no other good time limited items for the time for some reason...

    The only really good guaranteed time limited season reward imo, is the scar at the end, but that's because i am obsessed with them lol. All the other guaranteed exclusives (flag, sails, makeup, tattoos, titles) are meh imo. Rare should add some better season exclusives like for example, a weapon themed around the season. Like a Shroudbreaker sword, or Ancient Gold EoR

  • Lem0n Curry
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @el-spaniardchi said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    @lem0n-curry said in FOMO content is bad game design:

    Every person being mad at them added back in shops and/or behind commendations is being "silly", it's been known from the start that all those things (except for the Season named ones) would return. People who progressed during the Seasons got first use of those items, not exclusivity.

    Agreed! Doesn't mean people won't be pleased, and not understand Rare does try their best to make it fair for everyone. Although I still stand by my reskin idea, at least as a way to change up the current very boring pattern of admiral, bilge rat, sea dog e.t.c reskins.

    People won't be pleased if the devs comes to their houses and hand deliver their items ... let's not even try to please them.

    They can't go back on the items from S1-S5 though, or they would be facing people who would be legitimate mad at them. If in the future they put reskinned/recoloured items in the shop - fine by me - hopefully they do it right after the season ends as there is no need anymore to keep people away from those for one or more seasons ...

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