Sea Dog Faction - Complete Concept

  • It’s time to bring the Sea Dogs into Adventure mode! My proposal brings elements of Arena 1.0 while giving PvP lovers an appropriate home.

    • This new faction would have its own Emissary, Voyage, and unique Emissary Quests.
    • Loot would be handed in at The Glorious Sea Dog tavern. Exact NPC location would change as the voyages change. Lesedi is busy!
    • Sea Dog emissaries would appear on the map to all players similar to how the Reaper emissary works.
    • Sea Dog Emissary can be lowered at outpost as well as at The Glorious Sea Dog tavern, but it can only be raised at outposts. This is to prevent crews from going to the highly centralized Glorious Sea Dog tavern and waiting for crews to come into view before raising their emissary.
    • Sea Dog Emissaries cannot see Reapers on the map. Sure, you could get a last known location before you decide to represent the Sea Dogs, but that’s it.
    • Sea Dog Emissaries cannot alliance with any crew under any circumstance.
    • Other crews on the server would benefit by being on the server with a Sea Dog.
    • All players on the server would have a small ticker warning them how many Sea Dog crews are on the server. It would appear right above your health bar and just give you a quick visual so you're not having to worry about checking your map constantly in the middle of a voyage.

    As you read through this concept, you may think that this encourages a sink-on-sight playstyle. I would strongly disagree. Those players with the sink-on-sight mentality are already here and are not going away. This would simply give them a home, and moreover, a home that would flag them on the map so you know who to avoid. It would also encourage elements of PvE in an otherwise PvP heavy playstyle.

    Loot:
    The only loot items that receive an emissary bonus for the Sea Dogs are: stolen loot of any faction, Sea Dog Chests, emissary flags of other Sea Dogs, and emissary flags of Reapers. They do not accept the broken flags of any other faction. This part is really important: Similar to Merchant Cargo, the only time your emissary level would rise is once loot is turned in. Your emissary level would not raise by just touching loot or getting it onboard your ship. Now, you could absolutely turn in non-stolen loot to the Sea Dogs, but you would not get any emissary bonus for that loot. Nor would it help to raise your emissary level once turned in. This is more a convenience feature in case you come across any emergent PvE during your time as a Sea Dog. This part is also really important: Loot would only count as stolen AFTER you have elected to be a Sea Dog emissary. What that means is that there are no “silent Sea Dogs” so to speak. If you steal loot and you’re not a Sea Dog emissary, guess what, it doesn’t count as stolen loot. If you go sink a Sea Dog and you're not a Sea Dog emissary, even that flag does not count as stolen.

    Voyage:
    The Sea Dog Voyage would only be available to those that are flying the Sea Dog emissary flag. It would be 5 static maps with ‘X marks the spot’ locations across the sea. They would be on a timer similar to Merchant Contracts. They would be available for 25 minutes and any active Sea Dog emissary can go dig those Sea Dog Chests up. As crews recover the buried Sea Dog chests, that map expires and vanishes from the radial of any Sea Dog emissary on the seas. After 25 minutes, all maps would expire. There would then be a 5-minute cool down period before a whole new set of 5 maps is generated for the Sea Dogs. If you get sunk, you lose access to the voyage until you re-raise emissary.

    Sea Dog Chest:
    The Sea Dog Chest would appear on the map to everyone similar to a Reaper Chest, but only after it is dug up. The Sea Dog Chest would be worth a static 1k gold as well as a static emissary value. It would take 20x Sea Dog chests to reach Grade 5 emissary level by turning in exclusively Sea Dog Chests. If you’re doing the math, it would take 2 hours to get to Grade 5 by selling nothing but Sea Dog Chests assuming you were successful in gathering all 5 during each 25-minute window and selling them.

    Emissary:
    With only stolen loot and Sea Dog chests counting towards your emissary level, it’s going to be much harder to reach Grade 5. Therefore, Sea Dogs will not only match the traditional emissary bonuses, but do you one better. Grade 2 would be a 50% bonus. Grade 3 would be a 100% bonus. Grade 4 would be a 150% bonus. Grade 5 would be a 250% bonus. Broken Sea Dog Flags from sunken Sea Dog emissaries would be valued by their emissary grade similar to any other broken emissary flag.

    Emissary Quest:
    This would be different than every other emissary quest. With each level of emissary grade you achieve as a Sea Dog, you would get a copy of a single quest in the wheel of another crew on the server. Loot value from these completed stolen quests would also have a 20% increased value to entice Sea Dogs into doing them. This part is important: The original crew would still own their quest, but it would get flagged in their quest wheel as being a Sea Dog target. The quest copied could be a skeleton’s orders, a bottle quest, a skeleton crew bounty, a portion of a map for a Gold Hoarder Vault, a clue from a lost shipment voyage. Literally anything. Then, once you reach Grade 5 as a Sea Dog, you would get 4x quests from the crews across the sea. If for some reason no quests are available to copy as you progress through the emissary levels, random quests would be generated for you and you’d have no idea if it originated with another crew, or if it was randomly generated, but it would count as stolen just the same. EDIT: I took out the part about the RNG favoring. These copied quests are more so intended to lead you to your prey. The crew that owns those quests would need to make the decision on continuing that segment of their voyage or avoiding it since it'll be flagged as a target by the Sea Dogs.

    Everyone else on the server: There's a lot here so I'll break it into pieces.

    • The "Sea Dog threat bonus". There’s a distinct PvP threat present on the server. While they may be a “PvE Sea Dog” simply collecting Sea Dog Chests and completing stolen quests, the threat is real, VERY real, and you never know when you’ll become a tasty treat. To discourage people from simply leaving servers when Sea Dogs are present, you would get a scaled bonus for turning in loot on that server. 1 Sea Dog present = 20% bonus, 2 Sea Dogs = 40% bonus, 3 Sea Dogs = 70% bonus, 4 Sea Dogs = 110% bonus, 5 Sea Dogs = 160% bonus. The bonus would be of the base value of the item, but would not apply to any items an allianced crew sells. Example: you sell a sapphire gem as a Grade 5 Gold Hoarder and there is one Sea Dog on the Server, you would get: (1k base value) + (1.5K emissary bonus) + (200 Sea Dog threat bonus) Obviously, Sea Dogs themselves would not get that same bonus from the presence of other Sea Dogs.
    • Broken Sea Dog emissary flags can be sold to ANY trading company. This would provide a reward to anyone not flying the Sea Dog emissary should they emerge victorious from a battle with a Sea Dog.

    Wrap-up:
    Remember, the Sea Dogs are PvP faction at their core. A competitive bunch. If you're a Sea Dog emissary and get sunk by a sweaty crew with no loot that's simply out to hunt Sea Dogs, you can't get mad. That's part of the risk, and part of the reason you signed up to be a Sea Dog in the first place. But, you can scuttle easy knowing that crew cannot progress as a Sea Dog unless they were already representing the Sea Dogs as an emissary themselves. This would also allow the current Reaper faction to function as the true high risk/reward PvPvE faction that it is today. Imagine the Reaper vs Sea Dog battles that could take place with the outposts of each faction so close on the seas!

    Would love to hear your feedback!

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  • I'm not against the concept and I really commend the large amount of design work that went into this thorough thread.

    I'm just personally struggling to understand the exact "selling point". I feel like the differences that are there between these guys and Reapers get bogged down in all the different side features and etc that make the idea feel 3x more complicated than the others.

    For example, I don't see much point in the Emissary Quests idea. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a random faction's Emissaries to incentivise players doing bottle quests. Trying too hard to kill two birds with one stone can just make you miss. (I'm also just generally uncomfortable with the idea of non-Emissary players being "forced" into Emissary related dealings at random)

    IMO the idea should be focused more on quickly communicating what makes the Sea Dogs different. I really like the PvEvP idea of "You need to do the Sea Dog Chests constantly, AND juggle being a Reaper-esque PvP magnet" because that's comparable to what happens in the Arena, and I think that's what the concept should focus on.

    Example: You get Emissary Value for sinking other ships, and Sea Dog Chests. The Emissary multiplier only applies to Broken Emissary Flags and Sea Dog Chests, but to compensate for the narrow loot pool, the multiplier is still much higher like in your idea. On top of this, all other emissaries can sell Sea Dog Chests, multipliers and all. This means you can earn a lot of money from detours to kill Emissaries but unlike Reapers, they aren't your main goal, the chests are.

    I think keeping the idea centered around that kind of gameplay might make the concept more appealing. Some other random pieces of feedback/ideas:

    • IMO, what fits the spirit of the Sea Dogs isn't necessarily a "please stay on the server" selling % bonus. I think the Sea Dogs could instead be about rewarding OTHER people for raising their Emissary Flag to them as well. For example, the pool of total Sea Dog Chests spawning could grow proportionally to the amount of SD Emissaries hanging around. Hell, given that they're already restricted to raising at outposts in your idea, why not give them a Sea Dog Chest for free the moment they raise, so they're immediately part of the action?

    • I'd like it if the Sea Dogs had some kind of "pick yourself back up" mechanic to avoid losing everything immediately on death, given their nature as a "PvP is fun" kinda faction. Maybe choosing to reraise your Emissary flag after losing it, without switching servers, has a 50% gold discount.

  • The reason Arena works is because all 5 crews who enter are generally looking for PvP and competition.

    The same isn't true for Adventure.

    On a quiet server, one would essentially be running gold hoarder voyages to level up their Sea Dog rep. Doesn't feel right.

    The emissary quest is designed so that RNG heavily favors the quests that players mostly ignore anyway? And whether or not the opposing crew even wishes to compete for this loot, it counts as stolen? Lol. Also doesn't feel right.

    And the scaled bonuses for others, just for having a Sea Dog present... idk man. So if everyone leaves the Sea Dogs alone to cheese, they get to cheese as well, with their own bonus? None of this feels Sea Dogsy to me. Just seems like an easier alternative to gaining rep.

  • @sweetsandman
    Alliance servers could abuse this so hard, even if the Sea Dogs don't get a bonus off of one another, They could still give other crews extra money for free.

    It just seems that you are combining your idea for a redone Reaper with Arena in Adventure. To me it just comes off as a more lucrative copy of Reaper that happens to bear the Arena name without actually trying to be like Arena.

    As @theblackbellamy said, everyone in Arena is looking for the same thing. That's just not true in Adventure and the Sea Dogs would not often face PvP at all in Adventure.

  • I think you are forgetting the core value of what a Sea Dog is all about. They are about PvP, killing people and sinking ships, Sea Dogs don't care about loot.

    Some of the suggestions are good but all of your suggestions are loot based. I think some of these suggestions would be better suited to enhancing the Reapers Bones faction as the whole point of the Reaper's Bones is to steal the loot of other emissaries.

  • I really don't think the Arena will mix well with the Adventure mode. The whole idea of the Arena was to present a smaller map for fast PVP action.

  • Love all the feedback! Truth be told, I wish (and I think a LOT of us wish) that the Reaper faction was more like this. It's viewed as this PvP faction when, by design, it really isn't. I think it left a lot of us feeling disappointed, and it's too far gone for them to make any drastic PvP focused changes.

    @lexilogo I feel like the selling point is the "stolen loot" aspect. The hunt and get rewarded aspect. You would operate on the server almost as a roaming "final boss" of sorts. The voyage stealing concept was one that I was most unsure of. The idea behind it would be more that it would lead you to your prey instead of doing it...but if your prey was nowhere to be found based on that clue, you would at least be able to get something out of it that was "stolen." Like your ideas on an increased pool of Sea Dog chests as the number of Sea Dogs on the server increases as well. And yes, I agree that other factions on the server should be able to sell the Sea Dog chests similar to how merm/siren gems work. But, you can only see them if they've been dug up by a Sea Dog. I'll probably add this to the concept.

    @theblackbellamy On a quiet server, playing as a Sea Dog would certainly be challenging, borderline boring. But, you're intent is to be always on the hunt. The Sea Dog Chests is more to get you to prowl the seas in a logical manner than to be the main source of loot. As I pointed out, the Sea Dog Chests are not lucrative. It would take over 2 hours to get you to level 5...and even then, they're only worth 1k..so if you want to spend 2 hours on a server just getting to grade 5...and then make 35k per hour max after that by collecting just Sea Dog chests. That would prove not to be very lucrative. Plus, in my head, there's no way you're collecting all 5 chests in 25 minutes. No shot. Especially if the RNG sends you to Marauder's Arch, Smuggler's Bay, Discovery Ridge, Thieves Haven, and Ruby's Fall. I would probably toss out the heavy RNG focus of the stolen emissary quests being on skeleton's orders and bottle quests. I just wanted to see how salty people would get at the idea of their Athena Dig being the emissary quest of a Sea Dog lol.

    @grumpyw01f This is less an idea to add Arena to adventure, and more an idea to add a more PvP focused faction to adventure. Sea Dogs are just the most obvious choice. As mentioned, I wish Reaper was mechanically designed as a PvP faction. It wasn't though. With this, and traveling to each Sea Dog Chest, you're bound to see a ship's sails render in the distance. It's time to divert your attention to the real prize. The Sea Dog Chests are more a mechanical means of getting you to find your prey, and giving you something to collect if your prey happens to not be in that area. Also, in order to abuse this on an Alliance server (remember Sea Dogs can't alliance), they would need to all be doing something, and then everyone meet up at the Sea Dog Tavern to exchange loot, turn it in, and then go do something else, rinse and repeat. Alliance servers will find a way to ruin everything (cough cough Merchant Commodities) and there's nothing to stop it. Is what it is. Just pretend they don't exist.

    @j3nkman I wish the Reaper faction was more like what I put together...but it isn't...and I feel it's too far gone to course correct now.

    @metal-ravage Arena 1.0 was designed to be a fast-paced and competitive version of adventure mode. It was still designed as a PvPvE experience, though. Do I wish it was designed as a Battle Royale, last ship standing mode? You betcha. But, it wasn't. Probably because Rare fears that a true BR mode would overtake Adventure in popularity...but that's just me speculating.

  • What if there was a Sea Dogs emissary in the Arena Game mode that levels up by winning and then multiplies how much gold you get at the end of the match? Also the higher your level, the more points other players get when they attack you/your ship?

  • @ottyman8687
    Emissary wouldn't work in Arena.

    Though they could have used the Emissary ledger as a ranked system with seasonal ledger rewards. That would have been cool.

  • @sweetsandman said:

    @theblackbellamy On a quiet server, playing as a Sea Dog would certainly be challenging, borderline boring.

    Boring? Yes. Challenging? Not at all.

    It might be a challenge to raise your emissary value, but you'd essentially be doing gold hoarder voyages for the rep. What incentive are you giving others to fight you, when they could be complacent with their bonus just for having you around?

    Doesn't matter how far apart the islands are, or how much the loot is worth. Without guaranteed competition, this will always be the less challenging alternative to Arena.

    One major concern I have with integrating Sea Dogs into Adventure is that the ease of this alternative would pull players out of Arena, making the mode even less active than it currently is.

    I don't want that to happen.

    I have seen some ideas in the past of how to properly merge Sea Dogs into adventure, without sacrificing the spirit of true and pure competition.

    I can't find this post for some reason, but I remember who wrote it because the guy always comes up with interesting ideas lol. @RedEyeSith proposed something that reminded me of RDR2's system of joining mini-games in the open world. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sith. But I believe the idea was: outside the Arena tavern in Adventure, players could vote on a variety of game modes (naval, tdm whatever), and would be loaded into an instance with other players who are also queued up for that mode.

    Something like this might help draw more of the general Adventure population towards Arena games, and bring new life to Sea Dogs as a company, without turning it into some gold hoarder-reaper hybrid.

  • I want Sea Dogs to stay in Arena, and I want Rare to rethink their stance on Arena.

  • @theblackbellamy that is pretty much spot on. Using the Portal system to shuffle folks off to these Sea Dog Challenges. You'd still also have the option to jump directly to these from the main menu, and you'd have an option once in the mix of those challenges to vote to change type of challenge or to head back to Adventure (popping back in via a Portal).

    This adds a sense of connection to everything, and adds something inside Adventure to entice people into a round or two of Sea Dog content as part of their Adventures (and that more smooth transition not requiring quitting to menu all the time might help see an uptick in use of the Faction). More use equals more chances of better support and development again.

    All in all, it seems like a good way to get more Modes for people that want them while also making it feel like it is more just a direct part of the core experience instead of being cordoned off into it's own thing.

  • I'll be honest... it sounds like you actually want them to just reimagine Reapers.

  • @grumpyw01f said in Sea Dog Faction - Complete Concept:

    @ottyman8687
    Emissary wouldn't work in Arena.

    Though they could have used the Emissary ledger as a ranked system with seasonal ledger rewards. That would have been cool.

    Emissary can work in Arena if implemented well.

    First off, You would have to vote the flag up in the tavern between matches or have it automatically up at the beginning of the match.

    Secondly, once the ship sinks you loose the flag for the rest of the match (obviously)

    Third thing, for each 1000 silver earned in the arena you would raise the grade of the flag and with it earn more emissary ledger credit with the silver you do earn.

    Fourth thing, if you manage to get the emissary flag to grade 5 you would earn double rewards for all the actions that earn you silver. For example, you get 2000 silver for cashing in a chest.

    Also, turning in a broken emissary flag would also earn you silver in the sea dog arena as well as emissary ledger rewards.

  • @sweetsandman A stripped battle royale mode will just make SOT another Fortnite or another PUBG. The only way to save the Arena is to introduce more elements of naval strategy and hand to hand combat not less.

  • @metal-ravage it would sure be interesting to see a poll done of the community to see what exactly they would want in a revamped Arena. There's SO many things they could do, even offer multiple modes. Sadly, I don't think we'll see Arena get attention until Adventure mode is seeing its player base dwindle and the story-line wrap up...which is a long ways off I reckon.

  • @redeyesith I love the idea of getting more people to come to Arena via Adventure mode. Arena really is underrated and I am sad that I hadn't gotten into it much sooner than I did. It's a post-apocolyptic place now with the factions of TDM'ers and commendation farmers each doing their own thing and then people that just recently discovered Arena wandering around wondering what they are supposed to be doing.

  • @theblackbellamy @klutchxking518

    Hmm. Perhaps Sea Dogs isn't the right faction for this Adventure mode concept. Dark Adventurers seems like the obvious next choice, though I don't really care for the name.

    Though, the "Dark Adventurers" would need to get permission to use The Glorious Sea Dog tavern as their trading post. I imagine this faction as a "rival" to the Reapers, so having their trading posts that close would allow for some fantastic mid-season versus events to be put together by the Rare team.

  • @sweetsandman Reapers already rival other Reapers, in most cases from my experience. They could just re-work or add to the company without making an entirely separate one. I think they should. I've seen people make the "it's too late to change" type of default-bias arguments. This game has changed a lot since it was first released, and it will continue to.

    I like the idea of getting a copy of another crew's map, though I'm not a fan of RNG favoring throwaway quests and loot counting as stolen even if it isn't fought over. We could also do without a bonus just for having a Reaper present, because we're fine without this already.

  • @coffeelight5545
    I don't see why you wouldn't raise the flag. Maybe if you sink your flag gets sold and you lose, but it doesn't see likely that anyone would refrain from raising a flag for that reason. Especially if everyone else is doing it.

    What I see is a system that everyone would use... And therefore it would be better as an update to Arena than an optional flag.

    I also see Grade 5 as a way to smoke enemy crews just for being a bit better at the time.
    Let's say you get grade 5, and #2 is 500 silver behind you. Now you can get X2 silver for what you do? While #2 is trying to make up silver, you can defeat them easily just by matching what they're doing or fighting them. I don't see the downside. Even if you get sunk at the last minute, I don't think #2 could catch up, especially if there wasn't enough time to sell the flag.

    One of the amazing things about Arena is that everyone is on an equal playing field at all times. You can't run out of supplies and get defeated easily. You can't get outspeeded by another ship if you know the winds. Other crews don't have Wraithballs (Idea: Arena mode focused on getting wraithballs rather than the chest?) or more chainshots just because they've been playing for longer. And, most importantly, no crew can apply a multiplier to their silver gain.

  • @theblackbellamy I agree and I made an edit to alter the RNG portion. Certainly presents better opportunity to encounter other players this way.

  • @grumpyw01f

    You can get a emissary multiplier on ledger value only instead of my original idea of a multiplier on silver for each grade. As for a grade 5 perk, how about a single treasure map that spawns a single sea dog chest and a beacon as soon as it’s dug up

  • @klutchxking518 said in Sea Dog Faction - Complete Concept:

    I want Sea Dogs to stay in Arena, and I want Rare to rethink their stance on Arena.

    Same here. Actually just fix the broken chest beacon and Arena is playable again.

  • @coffeelight5545
    If it's just an emissary multiplier that has no bearing on the game, I don't see why you wouldn't raise the emissary flag. So why not scratch the flag aspect and just stick with the ledger?

  • @grumpyw01f

    In a world where gold is worthless why raise an emissary flag for the other 5 factions? I have so much gold that I only raise an emissary flag if there are new emissary rewards. I already bought ALL of the Dark Adventure cosmetics

  • @coffeelight5545
    If there's a choice between playing Arena and earning ledger points or playing Arena and not earning ledger points, there's no reason to not put up the flag. So it's not a good idea. Cut out the middleman, make ledger points increase just by earning silver.
    Flags in Adventure are very different to the flag system in Arena we are talking about.

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