This ideas has enough holes to sink now. We get 90% of @Matroos-Mens loot they turn in for the next month.
Again, someone mad they're getting denied loot is all. Move along everyone.
(Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.
@matroos-mens said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@realstyli Mermaid's Hideaway is the same shrine as Sailor's Knot. But Sailor's Knot is slightly closer.
Marauder's arch is too far away to consider an option to timely engage.
Marauder's arch is...less than 1 and a half blocks away in the map, same with mermaid's hideaway, and about the same as plunder valley
...This sad excuse of a reaper wants hiding spots in every single square on the map. And NOT EVEN 2 blocks away "Is too far away"
@realstyli Right, I forgot for a single moment majority/minority mattered in raising a design flaw that hadn't occurred yet in its playtesting phase due to its rare conditions there.
If anything, that "majority" vastly commented in a hellbent perspective the initial post was talking about an unmanned ship while the very first post literally mentioned an up-front fight, so that "majority" was already seeing the post in a completely wrong perspective. So yeah, nice try!
@kakaroto9766 Yes, the other examples or spots were (hardly-) a block away. Not even mentioning in the latter two the time it takes to first sail around it before you head towards the location.
You can sarcastically try to say all you want how big of a difference half a block is, but when it comes down to a defending ship responding to you making a move, that single minute matters.
@pithyrumble Good to know/see your only intention of dropping a reply is to leave nothing constructive at all.
That my point, you dont want fair competition, you want it EASY FOR YOU.
If this is too far away a distance for you to sail to someone before they can pick up 15-20 pieces of loot, you oughta stick to PVE, because you clearly are incapable of doing half decent PVP.
And again you are clearly too incompetent to leave someone behind to slow them down in case you are against the wind.
No, the game is not supposed to be designed to help incompetent reapers.
@wsurftvveeds Perfect. Then we agree the current mechanics work perfectly fine and don't need any alteration.
All I'm hearing from people complaining about the current mechanics is that it's somehow not easy enough to steal loot...even though current options are all super easy...
@matroos-mens said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@kakaroto9766 Okay, more attempts at insults to throw? Or is it all out of your system?
Its not insults, its facts
You really think a competent reaper would have problem traversing less than 1 and a half blocks in the time it takes to pickup 20 pieces of spread out loot?
Of course every second/minute counts. But that doesnt means the game should give you free extra seconds/minutes. You have to buy those yourself and use them wisely. 1.5 blocks is nothing.
@sweetsandman My issue isn't with how difficult it is to steal loot. It's with how easy it is for the statues to be abused and leave loot permanently out of play.
Another solution suggested by our very own discord mod Blackwytche was to have a timer and release all loot after say half an hour to an hour or something. I would also support that idea instead of a free for all and early warning system like I've proposed.
There have also been cases of people getting spawncamped until they agree to release their loot - another issue caused by this implementaion.
@kakaroto9766 said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
That my point, you dont want fair competition, you want it EASY FOR YOU.
If this is too far away a distance for you to sail to someone before they can pick up 15-20 pieces of loot, you oughta stick to PVE, because you clearly are incapable of doing half decent PVP.
And again you are clearly too incompetent to leave someone behind to slow them down in case you are against the wind.
No, the game is not supposed to be designed to help incompetent reapers.
Low blow man. Not cool.
Also, OP was talking not about a difference in difficulty, but a hardcapped blockade that anybody can invoke upon being attacked. This isn't a skill issue, but a timing issue. Everything you've described relies on one condition; "when the enemy has popped the loot siren". Any condition that happens before that, either you being seen, or them becoming suspiscious/wary, which doesn't even have to be triggered by you as the attacker, renders all the spoils void.
You described it yourself earlier; you have to be there in order to ever gather intel on when they pop the siren by tucking on their ship. Your idea on hiding in the air vents won't even be viable, because they'll see a mermaid and be on instant alert there's an uninvited guest there watching them. And without this information, you won't ever know if they're done with the shrine until they depart, which makes every bit of a nautical mile matter in trying to catch up with them.
@kapitein-kater said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
Everything you've described relies on one condition; "when the enemy has popped the loot siren". Any condition that happens before that, either you being seen, or them becoming suspiscious/wary, renders all the spoils void.
And I and other people already explained ways you can work around that. Yeah, you need to do a bit of reaperdetectivesneakywork. Thats good, adds variety to the game.
@wsurftvveeds said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
Another solution suggested by our very own discord mod Blackwytche was to have a timer and release all loot after say half an hour to an hour or something. I would also support that idea instead of a free for all and early warning system like I've proposed.
A timer simply puts inexperienced crews at an even bigger disadvantage. Imagine you're newer, you finally solve the puzzle, get back up and your mermaid is empty and all the loot has sunk...sorry, you're not good enough to get the loot...git gud.
An early warning system would have all sorts of false positives from harmless ships sailing nearby...and trolls. If trolls knew that simply sailing near a ship at a shrine would cause the crew in the shrine to panic, come back up, and then have to go swim back down and yada yada, trust me, they would.
There have also been cases of people getting spawncamped until they agree to release their loot - another issue caused by this implementaion.
Great...then just leave the server. Nobody gets the loot. If you're in that situation, you aren't getting the loot anyways, so just leave and be done...why are we trying to reward those players?
@kakaroto9766 Not really, you only tried through two means on how to work your way around it.
- Tucking, which relies on people being ignorant about their ship, or about people trying to sneak/hide on them
- Hiding at the shrine, which leaves a mermaid as a massive announcer that they're there.
Also, I'm not sure why you're bringing in a Reaper as idea, since you'd be full with either confidence or stupidity to pop a loot siren with a Reaper(-marked) ship on the map right near you.
Each of these 3 things all rely on that the ship you target, is unaware of you. And this unawareness is created by them not knowing the game, or not knowing what sources to use to read their surroundings.
In other words, in your attempt to flak OP for 'not knowing how to prey', you raise scenarios in which the other party does not 'know how to remain vigilant'. You prescribe failure with incompetence, but in not any scenario have argued with a description where both parties know what they're doing.
@mintharp184509 It actually is not Temporary, in the slightest. The loot remains there safe and intangible for as long the crew is in the server. Even if they've been sank multiple times, ran to the other side of the map and then return 3 hours later, or even ended up being merged on a different server, it's still there for them to collect, on a moment that they see fit.
There is nothing literally any other ship/crew can do about that but spend time waiting until the ship pops the loot siren, which will never happen so long they still know there's a ship preying on them. It's the safest loot you can ever get for a stationary or remote activity, and opposed to other comparable activities, it really pays out well.
As opposed to Forts, there is no indicator at all that they've popped the loot siren. The only way to know they did, is by being physically there, which betrays your position, and/or relies on the defending party being unaware of you.
@mintharp184509 We're talking about the scenario where they haven't popped the siren (yet), because something or someone spooked them. This doesn't have to be you blowing your cover, it can be done by literally any other ship in the server that they happen to see.
You don't show that by 'showing your intentions', but also simply by being there.
@matroos-mens said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@pithyrumble Good to know/see your only intention of dropping a reply is to leave nothing constructive at all.
Does everyone even know they can hostage the loot? Now they do. The idea is bad and you shouldn't have taught more people that they can hostage the loot either. I didn't need to add anything because everyone else already pointed out how bad it was.
There. Something else to burn your pineapples with 🤪🍍🔥
@pithyrumble said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@matroos-mens said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@pithyrumble Good to know/see your only intention of dropping a reply is to leave nothing constructive at all.
Does everyone even know they can hostage the loot? Now they do. The idea is bad and you shouldn't have taught more people that they can hostage the loot either. I didn't need to add anything because everyone else already pointed out how bad it was.
There. Something else to burn your pineapples with 🤪🍍🔥
Well, given that people have already suicided the loot into the red sea, I wouldn't be surprised if they found out this was an option too. At the very least, I encountered a brig yesterday that did so.
I didn't know it was indefinite until this thread and I plan on using it now 😅
About to go solo some shrines until my kid wakes up and joins me. And not sell anything lol.
@kapitein-kater said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@kakaroto9766 Not really, you only tried through two means on how to work your way around it.
- Tucking, which relies on people being ignorant about their ship, or about people trying to sneak/hide on them
- Hiding at the shrine, which leaves a mermaid as a massive announcer that they're there.
[Mod edit]
Also, I'm not sure why you're bringing in a Reaper as idea, since you'd be full with either confidence or stupidity to pop a loot siren with a Reaper(-marked) ship on the map right near you.
Or you are confident in your pvp skills.
Besides, when you are hunting players you are acting as a reaper, regardless of flag or not, up to you if you put your flag or not, you know advantages and disadvantagesEach of these 3 things all rely on that the ship you target, is unaware of you. And this unawareness is created by them not knowing the game, or not knowing what sources to use to read their surroundings.
Decent reapers (flag or no flag) Can hide and sneak, and whether if you succeed or not both depends on some luck/randomness as well as in skill...how is it bad that a good and aware crew is rewarded for being good aware players?
you want to reward trash hunters/reapers who dont know how to hide or watch their prey without the prey knowing.
@kakaroto9766 I already rebuked all those 3 points but you're very stubbornly defending them.
First point being; You can't see them because of render distance settings. And if you can, so can they see you.
Second point being; Relies on people not knowing their ship or be aware of sneak strategies.
Third point; Mermaids. You know, the bloody beacon in the water that reveals there's an uninvited guest there.
This is a matter of the typical pursuit predator in SoT having to become the ambush predator.
Be the snake...not the cheetah
@sweetsandman If it takes a crew a whole hour to complete one of these, well that's on them imo. (Plus it could simply be that the mermaid is open for anyone to take after an hour). No loot despawning.
How is that a false positive though, it's just warning that a ship is near, it's up to the crew if they want to go up and take it out or not. You're also conveniently forgetting the far greater potential for trolling just by locking loot stolen from someone inside one of these mermaids then logging off
You also seem to only think about new players when it helps your argument. New players won't think that leaving the server is the best decision here. Especially when the crew is lying and telling them they'll "only take X" from the mermaid once it's released.
@kapitein-kater said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@kakaroto9766 I already rebuked all those 3 points but you're very stubbornly defending them.
First point being; You can't see them because of render distance settings. And if you can, so can they see you.
You know exactly where they are, and if you are not within render distance you can swim or boat closer. Again, its not supposed to be easy, you are supposed to work for the loot.
Second point being; Relies on people not knowing their ship or be aware of sneak strategies.
Second point: You want experienced players to be vulnerable to you even tho they do their due diligence to keep themselves safe? You want situations in which there is no way to be safe?
Third point; Mermaids. You know, the bloody beacon in the water that reveals there's an uninvited guest there.
You know where their ship is. You know where the breathing spots are. You know (if you are half decent) how long you have to swim to spawn a merm somewhere else. You can easily spawn a mermaid away from their boat and then swim down to a breathing hole. If you estimate the distance right, merm wont move.
....But of course you are going to whine against this because you want to be completely invisible.
"But what if they climb on their crows nest and look all around until they see the merm?" Well...then they outplayed you in that and you need to fallback to other strategy.
Honestly a crew who does half of those things you whine about wont have any qualms about calling the merm because they will also be good at PVP.
@wsurftvveeds said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
@sweetsandman If it takes a crew a whole hour to complete one of these, well that's on them imo. (Plus it could simply be that the mermaid is open for anyone to take after an hour). No loot despawning.
If a crew has loot on their ship and leaves the server, the loot sinks and despawns after 5 minutes. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound. The loot still despawns. This is no different.
How is that a false positive though, it's just warning that a ship is near, it's up to the crew if they want to go up and take it out or not. You're also conveniently forgetting the far greater potential for trolling just by locking loot stolen from someone inside one of these mermaids then logging off
I mean nobody is going to hear an alarm go off and just be like...meh...whatever happens with the loot in the free rein mermaid backpack is fine.
I'll maintain that as long as you touched the loot, you can do what you want with it until it's sold or someone steals it from you. Sink it, leave it scattered on islands like Christmas presents, offload it to a roaming skeleton ship... whatever you want to do with it until someone takes it from you.
This is just a new means of doing what you want with the loot that you touched...it doesn't enable you to get it to an outpost to sell any more easily.
You also seem to only think about new players when it helps your argument. New players won't think that leaving the server is the best decision here. Especially when the crew is lying and telling them they'll "only take X" from the mermaid once it's released.
This is more a function of new players needing a better introduction to the purpose of scuttling and is not a biproduct of the new mechanic.
Honestly the situation being complained about is identical to forts.
You see a ship approaching after you beat the fort, are you really gonna open the vault or are you going to put the key on the ship and prepare to sail away? Either to battle and keep the loot safe or to run and despawn the key, you will 100% do it, I don’t care what type of player you are.
Someone can easily Red Sea a key and then no one gets it. They can also make sure it sinks in other ways and despawns. Even if you battle and lose, you have time to go back now because the enemy has to sail back to the fort, unlock the vault, and load the loot.
I am in no way advocating those play styles but Rare has essentially endorsed these situations and therefore I don’t think the way the loot mermaid works in this context is going to change.
@matroos-mens
I thought PvPers loved tucking? Exercise that skill while the enemy crew is in the shrine/treasury, wait until they use the loot mermaid, then steal.Its seems to me that @matroos-mens has called in support from his crewmate @kapitein-kater or that it is in fact the same person on different accounts. Especially since @matroos-mens was calling out activities in insiders (breaking NDA i might add) whilst not being an insider himself and @kapitein-kater is an insider
Also they try and make the exact same points and have the same name styles in dutch (Sailor Human and Captain Cat)
Kind of obvious, however they fail to realise it is working exactly as designed and planned and when i pointed that out in my previous post it was just ignored.
And they also seem to realise that no matter how much they try they are obviously in the minority both in reactions and in upvotes@sweetsandman said
If a crew has loot on their ship and leaves the server, the loot sinks and despawns after 5 minutes. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, it still makes a sound. The loot still despawns. This is no different.... whatever you want to do with it until someone takes it from you.
We're not talking about if noone is around though, we are talking about people keeping stuff locked away, when people are definitely around and wanting to take it. When a crew leaves the server the mermaid should become open to anyone, then despawn after 5 minutes lets say. If noones around it's not an issue. If someone is around it keeps things fair. When a crew leaves the mermaid for too long (say an hour) it should become open but not despawn, again to keep things fair.
I'll maintain that as long as you touched the loot, you can do what you want with it until it's sold or someone steals it from you. Sink it, leave it scattered on islands like Christmas presents, offload it to a roaming skeleton ship... whatever you want to do with it until someone takes it from you.
So you're completely okay with Red Sea running? I think we're done here.
Not to derail the topic at hand, but I see one major difference between this and forts. With people red-sea'ing fort keys, nobody actually touched the loot. Nobody got a chance to claim it and it doesn't belong to any crew. The vaults of forts should just automatically open in my opinion...get rid of the keys altogether. Then, if you get all the loot on your ship, you can do what you want with it until someone takes it from you.
@sweetsandman said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
The vaults of forts should just automatically open in my opinion
Well thats your opinion. I disagree with it. Having a key adds more points of strategy and interaction to the game.
@kapitein-kater said in (Sunken Shrines) When a ship sinks/scuttles, release all the loot its loot siren held.:
Mainly I only see this as an "issue" if a ship (that fully completed the Shrine) suddenly opts not to claim the loot. If the ship was still busy clearing the shrine, then no, you can use that time to device a plan like tucking on their ship with a gunpowder barrel.
Against unmanned ships while the shrine is still in progress, I absolutely agree nothing should be changed. However against people that have finished the shrine and are fully able to defend or react, then yes, they very clearly failed to defend the Shrine. Hostaging the loot from a completed shrine, (and sequentially disabling the Shrine to anyone else) as a last-ditch effort to mess over your attacker, without anyone being able to interrupt it sounds awful.
Yesterday we came across a brig doing one of the shrines, but the ship was unmanned. I hid in the ship and they seemed to talk through game chat. About 15 minutes later they had fully completed it, but vocally chose not to pop the Siren yet because they were plundered (we stole all their supplies, but by the time they resurfaced, our ship was nowhere near render distance). They were later attacked by another sloop, and that brig sank 3 times over before they left. The loot from that Shrine? Never to be taken by anyone because they chose to.
this is exactly the problem with this game…the brig who did all the work was sank 3 times while everyone involved knew they couldnt get the loot until they opened the clam. wasting peoples time and being toxic
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