Double Gunning is broken, PLEASE FIX IT.

As a double gunner, I can tell you that there is literally no such thing as "sprint cancelling" anymore. It sucks because there is literally a 1 second delay between shooting, but people are still complaining after it was nerfed for the millionth time.

If you are getting steamrolled by double gunners constantly, it's a problem with the way you are handling it. I can tell you now that chasing someone spamming M1 doesn't work if they know what they're doing. Use your gun, blunderbombs, or lunge.

Since you seem to think it's so overpowered... Why don't you try it for a couple days and see how "OP" it is. Seriously stop complaining about it and try a different strategy. Rare will never remove double gunning.

Also, I would like to note that "exploit" is a completely overused term that does not fit the situation. They are not "exploiting". They are good at using a different combo than you.

Nothing wrong with double gun, nor is it an exploit. Double gun requires more aiming skills and jumping skills than sword players, so, when they aim down sights, block+jump in a different direction. It works most of the time for me, if you do it properly.

People say that blunder+sniper and blunder+pistol is OP because of the blunder, but this is not true. If a double gunner is using the blunder buss more than anything else, are they really a true double gunner? As to the, “blunder buss is good for below deck where sword has less manoeuvrability” argument, sword actually has the advantage lower deck if used properly. Using the block jump technique allows you to literally go through players before they can shoot and get behind them, stunning them and locking them in place.
Of course, there are risks. Hit reg is very bad and you may be back-tracked, which is most common with the blunder. However, sword+gun is a very easy counter to double gun - unless the DG’er is very good - simply because the sword has broken stun-lock and only around a second consequence for missing a swing.

Different double gun techniques are used for different situations. So, boarding a sloop or brig, having a blunder is very helpful. Boarding galleons and going onto islands to fight, sniper pistol is a much better combo, although it takes way more skill.

Hoped this clarified some things. Good luck!

P.S. Ignore what toxic players have to say, those lot don’t have anything to say. Remember, no one is better than them and any one who is is a cheater, exploiter or hacker. Don’t take it personally, Sot can also be very frustrating at times and others may not have the self-restraint to not go, “You #$&*%@“ Anyway, good luck, again🙂

@scurvywoof said in Double Gunning is broken, PLEASE FIX IT.:

Nothing wrong with double gun, nor is it an exploit. Double gun requires more aiming skills and jumping skills than sword players, so, when they aim down sights, block+jump in a different direction. It works most of the time for me, if you do it properly.

People say that blunder+sniper and blunder+pistol is OP because of the blunder, but this is not true. If a double gunner is using the blunder buss more than anything else, are they really a true double gunner? As to the, “blunder buss is good for below deck where sword has less manoeuvrability” argument, sword actually has the advantage lower deck if used properly. Using the block jump technique allows you to literally go through players before they can shoot and get behind them, stunning them and locking them in place.
Of course, there are risks. Hit reg is very bad and you may be back-tracked, which is most common with the blunder. However, sword+gun is a very easy counter to double gun - unless the DG’er is very good - simply because the sword has broken stun-lock and only around a second consequence for missing a swing.

Different double gun techniques are used for different situations. So, boarding a sloop or brig, having a blunder is very helpful. Boarding galleons and going onto islands to fight, sniper pistol is a much better combo, although it takes way more skill.

Hoped this clarified some things. Good luck!

P.S. Ignore what toxic players have to say, those lot don’t have anything to say. Remember, no one is better than them and any one who is is a cheater, exploiter or hacker. Don’t take it personally, Sot can also be very frustrating at times and others may not have the self-restraint to not go, “You #$&*%@“ Anyway, good luck, again🙂

Sorry broski, I'm gonna have to completely and utterly disagree.

Double gunning is still relatively an exploit because players are using a mechanic to get around the animation delay of switching weapons. Granted they added a 1.0 delay in between shots, but its still 1 second inbetween shots.

Next, I want to be very clear about this part, Double gunners are hypocrites. Before the sword buff, every single PvP player and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE would trash anyone using blunderbuss. You heard streamers doing it, you could hear PvP'ers doing it when they died to blunderbuss.

"Blunder noob, can't win without blunder."

"Using blunder, you are so trash"

I want all double gunners to remember HOW LONG they trashed on blunderbuss before the sword buff. Now they are using blunderbuss to cover their butts. They can't use pistol/sniper anymore for close quarters because if they miss a single shot, usually means they are dead now. Before they could tank the hits and just reload and fire, all in the process of getting sword mobbed. However, now they use the blunder buss to get a massive hit or one shot if they miss with sniper. Not to mention players are using blunder to snipe now, 3 pellets out of 10 is pretty easy to hit.

My whole issue with double gunning is how the game was balanced around it. Combat exclusively was changed and adapted around double gunning to keep the load out in the game.

I really enjoyed the original combat mechanics of the game before double gunning was a thing. Sword combat was intuitive. It might have been a little slow but it was the best rendition ever. More fights were about mind games and blocking and side stepping. Now its more about jumping around swinging widely while people hit you through your combo.

I lost count how many times I've caught multiple players at the same time with my sword attacks and WHILE I'M HITTING THEM, they hit me through my combo and kill me.

Combat has been held hostage because of the double gun loadout. If they just made sword mandatory they could change sniper/pistol/blunder to add other things to them. They could change those weapons freely and try new things. They could do the same with sword.

@sussybakastyle

There is sprint cancel. The 1 second delay between shooting doesn't negate the fact that you are sprinting to cancel the animation delay. That is sprint canceling.

You use the sprint cancel to also negate the ADS delay. Something that would relatively take 2 seconds normally is now taking just about 1.10 to 1.20 seconds without macro. With macro you can get those to 1 second.

Just because its not "instant" doesn't mean sprint cancel still isn't in the game. It is still in the game.

@xultanis-dragon Regardless, even if this evil “exploit” was removed, everyone that is already double gunning will probably stay doing it. We do not need sprint cancel to use the combo properly because you do not need ADS for instant two taps. People will still be complaining if it gets removed because they will still be getting rolled.

Unfortunately for you, Rare decided to completely break the sword, so there will no longer be any “good sword combat”. Had they not ruined sword, I might have actually decided to use it now.

@sussybakastyle Also, it is 1 second inbetween shots whether or not you use sprint cancel. The only difference being that without sprint cancel, you can’t ADS. I could still quickscope with my sniper, switch to blunder, and then shoot my blunder without ADS from decently far away to get the kill in the same amount of time it would take to do that while sprint cancelling.

Also this is like the 5th reply you’ve made on these kinds of posts so I’m not gonna get into a whole argument and go into specifics, I’ve made my points already.

@sussybakastyle said in Double Gunning is broken, PLEASE FIX IT.:

@xultanis-dragon Regardless, even if this evil “exploit” was removed, everyone that is already double gunning will probably stay doing it. We do not need sprint cancel to use the combo properly because you do not need ADS for instant two taps. People will still be complaining if it gets removed because they will still be getting rolled.

Unfortunately for you, Rare decided to completely break the sword, so there will no longer be any “good sword combat”. Had they not ruined sword, I might have actually decided to use it now.

Rare buffed sword because double gunning was too strong. Again, forget the part where players were tanking the sword while reloading and still getting their shot off before dying??

Contrary to popular belief, you should not be able to survive getting cornered by sword WHILE reloading. Sword is suppose to be close quarters king next to one shot blunder.

So no, without the buff to damage and the other changes, sword would not be inline with double gunning.

Secondly, you don't understand WHY sprint cancel even works do you?? This isn't a snide comment to you, its a legitimate question. There was a small window of like 2 weeks where there was absolutely no sprint cancel and it was hell.

The reason being is that ALL animations were constant. You pull out your weapon, sprint up to the player to use your weapon, but now you have the delayed animation. So basically you were at a disadvantage anytime you tried to sprint upto a player because it took you forever to pull out your weapon that you were already holding, while the enemy already had theirs out.

Example :

You have your blunder out. You sprint to the enemy, at the end of the sprint the animation for you pulling out your blunder plays out which takes a full second for you to pull out a weapon you ALREADY had equipped. You die because the enemy already had their weapon out.

So they readded the animation cancel for sprinting while already having your weapon out.

Which is HOW and WHY sprint cancel works. They removed the delay so that players who already had their weapons equipped wouldn't be punished as the delay was added to halt quick swaps.

Which is why you have to sprint AFTER switching your weapons for it to work. That is an exploit but for them to remove it would effect other parts of game play.

So they added a 1.0 second delay between shots.

Rare could just make the sword mandatory and go nuts with combat changes all they want without having to worry about double gunning.

Lets face it, combat is in current state because they are constantly trying to work around the loadout. PvP'ers claim it requires crazy skill but that is false. It requires a lot less skill than everyone claims especially when everyone switched to the gun that they trashed on for 2 years.

PvP'ers use whatever meta is best, not whichever meta requires more skill. That is fact. Its all about winning. Which isn't a bad thing, why the hell should anyone use a low tier meta?? Winning is important and I agree that using the best meta is the best option. However, I just don't like how lots of them claim that its the super hardest most skilled option. Its not hard and it doesn't require super skill.

There are no headshots, no hit mitigation. To do full damage you can aim ANYWHERE on the body. Meaning if you miss the chest but clip their foot, GG thats a win.

If it was headshots then yes I would agree, needs crazy aim, however lets be honest. Landing shots in close quarters with bottle neck pathways, not really all that hard is it?? Especially with everyone using blunder to cover their butts :):):).

Sword mandatory is the best option and Rare can finally play around with the combat to balance guns and sword back out.

@xultanis-dragon If they were to make "sword mandatory" there would need to be quite the server and reg improvement. Sword is awful in its current state. Slicing through blocks, crazy backtracks, etc. Rare wouldn't even consider making sword 100% mandatory until they made some major improvements.

Combat is in a pretty good spot right now and I honestly think that posts related to it should start to be locked. It’s literally the same back and forth arguments, “double gun this”, “sword that”, “blablabla is the meta”, etc. I can’t speak on behalf of Rare but I can make a pretty good guess that they won’t be changing combat anytime soon. Way too risky for them.

@psychaotic13

From patch to patch players cry about either double gun or swords. Frankly balancing PvP weapons in this game due to how the combat system works is kinda painful because of the following:

1. Latency problems
2. Hit reg is low quality
3. Massive differences in skill that influence the dev team even though methods are closer to balanced than you may think.

@sussybakastyle

Combat is not in a good spot and making sword mandatory would mean that we could finally change up combat without having to worry about making any one loadout overpowered.

Its what happens to games with heavy Meta's. The more choices you have does not always make a better game. "Play 1000000 different ways in this new hit release" - when in reality there are only 2 builds that really work for any class.

Then the developers try to nerf the 2 builds while buffing other abilities and the meta just SWITCHES. Still only 2 viable builds but thats what happens.

For this game the most overused weapon is the sniper. Players use it for close range all the time because of the quick scope which can be done in less than .2 seconds.

The guns should have their places in combat but they don't.

You are relatively new to the game so you weren't around before they changed combat. You say "combat is in a good place" but thats because you never experienced what it was like at launch or even after the first few changes.

Combat is horrible, absolutely horrible.

PvP'ers who spout "skill skill skill" are using the blunderbuss. The gun that they hated on for 2 years calling it the no skill weapon.

So how is double gunning skill when the gun PvP'ers said requires no skill is in their loadout?? That was just more of a poke at PvP'ers who defend double gunning are 100% pure skill of the end of all times.

Making sword mandatory would help close out the meta selections.

They could finally change up sniper, pistol, and even blunder buss and give them their own identities.

@touchiertooth28

You are like the other guy. You guys werent around during the original combat mechanics nor how the game changed over time to balance around double gunning.

Combat is complete garbage compared to what it used to be like. Before double gunning became the go to weapon, sword combat and gun combat was pretty balanced. Swords were about mind games and side stepping. You could take on multiple opponents at the same time.

If sword was mandatory then Rare could change each weapon without fear of making any specific loadout too strong or weak. They could change the guns freely and the swords freely.

Right now there are too many loadouts to be considerate of for a game that is having this many glitch/bugs.

Sword mandatory means you have 3 loadouts. Most focused types of combat.

8 loadouts for what we have now is just a mash up of nonsense.

@xultanis-dragon I feel really tied today, so I'm going to keep this shorter than normal.
Double gunning is, as I said, not an exploit. It is a load out that players can choose. Different loadouts are used for different situations. Double gun is an okay load out for ALL situations, but is by far not the best choice.
As to your 'Double gunners are hypocrites', you made that sound like EVERY double gunner is a hypocrite and that nobody else is, even though I get trash-talked by hypocritical pve'ers all the time.
I don't believe that blunder is overpowered in the actual idea of the weapon. However, poor game design has allowed it to become how it is. DG's see this advantage and use it.
Double gun has not at all affected how sword on sword combat works. Sword on sword is broking due to, as I said, poor design. 25 damage is fine but super stun is very broken. Sword is a good counter to double gun in my personal opinion because of how broken it is in close quarters. And, might I add, 30-40% of blunder shots are hit regged and most of the kills blunders have on you are likely due to backtracking. The blunderbuss is the worst with hit reg.
In my opinion, Rare just needs to completely rework combat. Change damage, reload time, make hit-reg better, ect. Combat is not at all 'held hostage by double gun'. In fact, it's more held hostage by how much Rare focuses n adding new content rather than dedicating more time to PvP issues.
Anyways, let's hope the next update will balance blunder and the sword a bit. Blunder may be bad but, have you ever used double gun and been on the receiving end of a sword? It's bad.
Good luck and let's cross our fingers in hopes PvP is improved (and maybe Arena's meta is improved too)
Happy Sailing

@scurvywoof said in Double Gunning is broken, PLEASE FIX IT.:

@xultanis-dragon I feel really tied today, so I'm going to keep this shorter than normal.
Double gunning is, as I said, not an exploit. It is a load out that players can choose. Different loadouts are used for different situations. Double gun is an okay load out for ALL situations, but is by far not the best choice.

When people talk about double gunning they aren't talking about the loadout most of the time, they are talking about the meta of hyper switching the weapons, which is unintended. You can still sprint cancel the weapons. That is an exploit which is an unintended by product of a mechanic in the game.

Also it seems you have ignored my main stance on why double gunning should be removed. It should removed and sword mandatory because it is holding combat hostage. Every combat change has been made in regards to balance around double gunning. To either try to fix double gunning or to buff sword in ways that it is more in line with double gunning.

After 2 years of changes and a damage buff to swords, double gunners were finally afraid of the sword. You can tell because they finally started to complain that sword was doing too much damage. They couldn't tank face hits anymore. However again it took 2 years of changes.

Those changes jacked up combat in a lot of ways. Sword is a mess, double gun is a mess.

As to your 'Double gunners are hypocrites', you made that sound like EVERY double gunner is a hypocrite and that nobody else is, even though I get trash-talked by hypocritical pve'ers all the time.

If that implied I'm a PvE'er, please be assured I'm not. Its a fact that PvP'ers dog on the noob tube in almost every game. They regard it as the point and click.

Those same PvP'ers who dogged on the blunder are now using it because they aren't good enough to survive without it. They also use it because its easier. Its not about skill but whichever loadout works the best and wins.

I don't believe that blunder is overpowered in the actual idea of the weapon. However, poor game design has allowed it to become how it is. DG's see this advantage and use it.

Never said blunder was overpowered, just pointed out that everyone who said "you are a noob for using blunder." or "HAH Blunder noob trash. Only players who are bad use the blunder. God you are so bad". The proof is in the multitude of videos and posts in the forum before the sword buff.

People saw a player using blunder and immediately the PvP crew would laugh and ridicule the player.

NOOOOOOW, they say NOTHING because they are using the gun because they have too to survive.

Double gun has not at all affected how sword on sword combat works. Sword on sword is broking due to, as I said, poor design. 25 damage is fine but super stun is very broken. Sword is a good counter to double gun in my personal opinion because of how broken it is in close quarters. And, might I add, 30-40% of blunder shots are hit regged and most of the kills blunders have on you are likely due to backtracking. The blunderbuss is the worst with hit reg.

Double gunning has greatly affected how sword combat works. Its effect how everything works. They have constantly balanced around double gunning to keep it in the game but allow other meta's or loadouts to combat against it.

The focus of the combat changes have been done to make "sword/gun" viable against "gun/gun" and in doing so the game is jacked up.

You say super stun, there is no super stun. The original stun that was in the game was necessary and it worked. It worked because you could actually BLOCK back then and blocked worked. Now block doesn't work at all half the time.

You really think I'm arguing about double gun because I am losing to double gun?? I've clearly stated my stance on why they need to make sword mandatory multiple times. Should focus on that.

In my opinion, Rare just needs to completely rework combat. Change damage, reload time, make hit-reg better, ect. Combat is not at all 'held hostage by double gun'. In fact, it's more held hostage by how much Rare focuses n adding new content rather than dedicating more time to PvP issues.

I agree that they need to work on all of that but they pretty much given up.

Combat has been changed exclusively to work around double gunning. All sword changes were done to be more in line meta wise against double gunning. Every single change, well except for the sword cancel.

Combat is held hostage by double gunning and the game itself is held hostage by Rare focusing on content updates.

However, the fact that Rare needs to focus on combat I completely agree on. That is what my stance is and thats why I want them to make sword mandatory already. They can freely make changes if the sword was mandatory without worrying of making one meta too overpowered or too strong. Combat was a lot more fun in the early days before Summit made double gunning popular.

Anyways, let's hope the next update will balance blunder and the sword a bit. Blunder may be bad but, have you ever used double gun and been on the receiving end of a sword? It's bad.

I've used double gun and still do from time to time. I used it a lot in Arena. Just because sword kills players NOW when they are finally caught doesn't mean that the combat is balanced.

Sword needs to be mandatory so that combat can finally be worked on and the guns can be rebalanced and the sword can be rebalanced.

Right now sniper is used almost exclusively as the main weapon of choice by all PvP'ers as the all around weapon. Its used for close range, med range, far range, its used as everything. That is balanced to you?? The .1 or .2 quick scope??

Sorry but there is a lot that needs to be changed and rebalanced.

Good luck and let's cross our fingers in hopes PvP is improved (and maybe Arena's meta is improved too)

Hopefully but this is Rare we are talking about, they are more focused on content then fixing their game. Which is why I hate seasons in games. It focuses more on releasing daily's, weekly's or whatever. We were all under the impression that the season would just be that with an event and thats it. They kept releasing events during the seasons and even content.

They are more focused on content then anything. They don't care about combat or the game because if every PvP'er leaves then it changes nothing for them. They base everything on numbers and not actual gameplay or knowledge.

Happy Sailing

You too broski, be safe and have fun out there.

The thing about Double Gunning is that no matter what combination they have, there's 10 bullets that will do enough damage to kill you if 2 shots land. that's far more than enough to kill an entire crew, especially because you can reload.

there isn't enough time to eat any food (unless you start eating early) before the second shot lands, so you have to hope that they miss or you can find cover because that's it. you're dead. just a single second 100 to 0. there's that window after you've baited both shots where you can get in and attack, but that's only if you aren't already dead.

now think about if there's more than one person doing it. a full galleon crew of double guns? 40 shots. any 2 of which will kill you. insane.

and that's not even taking into account that the Blunderbuss can just kill you instantly

there's a reason that literally the only kind of crew we struggle against is double gunning tryhards. it's not that they "counter our playstyle" because everybody I play with uses a different loadout, including a double gunner.

@xultanis-dragon

I tried in the past; like 2 years ago to make sword the default and non- optional weapon, but the pre- nerf double gunners; you remember what im talking about; they cried and whimpered about how it was taking away choice when back then because of the DG exploit 1 shot kinda eliminated choice entirely simply because back then you either played that meta or you didn’t get to live long.

Now days I just don’t care, I still play EoR + Sword.

I miss the old sword play, the mechanics were solid, shame they ruined it.

@swimplatypus7

Right?? Early sword mechanics, hell even early combat mechanics were solid. They worked, were engaging and didn't have massive amounts of bunny hopping here and there or monkey sword swinging tactics. If they just left everything AS is and just made sword mandatory, god I could only imagine how less frustrating everything would be right now.

Everything had its niche. Blunder was good for guarding or doing a spray and pray. Pistol was good for mid range. Sniper was still king but I think at that time the reload was longer and I think it did less damage?? I'm probably mistaken but it worked.

SIDE NOTE You regularly saw different loadouts. Not everyone carried sniper. It was a mix and match.

@xultanis-dragon

Yup, and really the only real issues back then was the double gun swap ads exploit. Eliminate the old exploit and presto; near perfect PvP.

Might be unpopular now days, I actually liked the ship combat meta before Cursed cannon, before destructible mast, helm, etc, before fire and blunder bombs, before foods with buffs.. early SoT excluding the double gun exploit was crazy good.

@swimplatypus7

Honestly I completely agree. I really enjoyed original SoT. Combat just seemed more fun. Things could turn into your favor no matter how grim it was. As long as your ship didn't sink you were save.

Not to mention the most annoying addition was fire and because of fire you know how many times I've almost sank or at least been on ships that have sunk because someone tossed some water and someone walked in front of it so it went back into the boat?? You didn't hit players with water toss before so bucketing was good too.

The only upside to the changes is that naval can win fights now. Before it was mandatory for boarders and boarders were the only way to stop a ship from moving because dropping anchor was the only way to stop it, however you had ways to do that which were kegs which most players don't use anymore.

Combat just seemed so much better. The barrel system having a cap at 100 for each barrel which made resource management a thing. Remember regular barrels?? GOD that game used to be so much fun. sigh I really miss the early days.

@personalc0ffee

I don't think I brought up macros. Honestly macros for this game were never really necessary.

@xultanis-dragon After thinking about it some more, as a double gunner I wouldn't really mind a sword mandate if they actually fixed it and it wasn't just a contest of who can cancel each other's animations first. If they mandated sword + gun, I would want the following things changed:

• 5 Slices instead of 4
• Working and realistic block
• Sword backtracking removed
• Sword range reduced

Assuming double gun was no longer a thing, that would be the ideal way to have sword combat be IMO. Currently, I believe sword does not require very much skill and is a noob weapon in this game, which is why I double gun. If the things above were changed, my opinion on that would be changed completely as well.