Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?)

  • Just had this thought and started wondering, why?

    How come they haven't capped alliance ship amount to 3 to prevent the whole server sharing gold with each other?
    Defeats the core idea of the game, right? There should always be at least couple stranger ships sailing the seas.
    That's how the game was apparently meant to be & described as. "Never know the intentions of other players"
    So why are there SO MANY commendations that require player "interactions" BUT won't work & will become meaningless if everybody are friends in the sea and sharing gold?
    (This also would be a solution for alliance servers, though I'm not really against them.. I guess)

    Thoughts?

    (Apologies if this has been a topic at some point, haven't been aware) ... (probably has)

    Cheers! Happy sailing!

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  • There are a lot who would agree that capping Alliances at 3 ships should be a thing (me included), and yes it has come up multiple times.

    However, it won't prevent entire servers having an "understanding"... Informal Alliances existed before they were added as an official mechanic and, in many ways, they were often more solid as they usually required crews to stay together and get to know each other.

    It's a social game and, while Rare do occasionally give incentives for certain gameplay choices, they've always said "tools not rules"

  • too late for any of it to matter

    it's gone on too long, everything has been cheesed and the damage to significance has already been done

    had it been addressed before expensive cosmetics and before all this new content it would of had at least some impact on keeping significance on gold earning.

    It used to be cheap cosmetics and limited things to do which made alliance servers a contradiction to messaging and the intended environment but not as big of a deal

    they incentivized the monster that was already going to organically happen and they let it grow and grow and it did the damage it was gonna do

    to address it at this point doesn't matter much and anything they did to "prevent" it won't do anything but be a major inconvenience to everyone else and will essentially break their own game

    Frankenstein's monster is here to stay

    going forward I say stop with the stolen commendations, they don't matter and just inconvenience organic players that have to play the loot lottery that stolen stuff ultimately becomes on organic servers

    stop with the pushing towards cooperation in events and stuff, it's a pain for organic players and alliance servers get that stuff done easily and quickly

    essentially stop rewarding alliance servers more than they already are rewarded while inconveniencing other people

  • @realstyli True. But have they specifically said "tools not rules" for alliances?
    Because everything has rules in SoT. Every game has rules. I don't understand why would they even say that?
    If they make a feature & just let players decide what to use it for & how (let players make the rules) , it might become a broken feature.. which this feature might be.
    EDIT: Let's be honest, it is a broken feature.
    Cheers for your reply! Happy sailing!

  • @jumli7

    The spirit of the game is "Tools not rules" however whats sad is that Rare has a habit of ignoring a problem until its at a point where they can no longer ignore it.

    What's also idiotic is that Rare balanced around server alliances. They say that server alliances aren't an issue since only a small portion of the population uses the exploitation, yet here they are balancing AROUND server alliances.

    I enjoyed the game a lot more when players had to actually SPLIT the loot when they were being friendly. Players actually interacted and had fun together.

    Alliances were just the worst addition because players stopped communicating. They throw up the flag and go off and do their own thing. Its used as another source of income.

    Rare's initial reason for Alliances was to curb the PvP on the seas and they got what they wanted. When they implemented it PvP was down 50% as it was more lucrative to just ally up and get more free money.

    Alliances were the reason why the gold inflation was such an issue. The other was because this was a cosmetics game but there were no cosmetics. Everything was unlocked by commendation or you had to use doubloons for the cosmetics meaning that players gold just kept getting higher and higher.

    Rare really screwed up unfortunately. Everyone tried to warn them, they didn't take it seriously, now I think they just don't care enough to do anything about it.

  • @xultanis-dragon

    What is it that they did to balance around server alliances?

  • @wolfmanbush Yes, sad but very true.
    But nevertheless, I'd still be down for the capped alliance, so it wouldn't be an never ending downhill.
    It's a bit too late for that, but it might be a positive change for the game, even though people wouldn't see it as that straight away.
    It's not the end yet, I say! We could make things better if things start to change! :D
    Happy sailing!

  • @jumli7 said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @realstyli True. But have they specifically said "tools not rules" for alliances?
    Because everything has rules in SoT. Every game has rules. I don't understand why would they even say that.
    If they make a feature & just let players decide what to use it for & how (let players make the rules) , it might become a broken feature.. which this feature might be.
    EDIT: Let's be honest, it is a broken feature.
    Cheers for your reply! Happy sailing!

    Not specifically about server alliances, to be fair, but it is a mechanic, a tool. Unless they deem it to be detrimental to the game or their vision they are unlikely to do anything about until it becomes a major issue. There's plenty of examples of them only taking action about something once it blows up to a problematic degree (the double-gunning fast switching/animation cancel, being one that jumps to mind).

  • @jumli7 said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @wolfmanbush Yes, sad but very true.
    But nevertheless, I'd still be down for the capped alliance, so it wouldn't be an never ending downhill.
    It's a bit too late for that, but it might be a positive change for the game, even though people wouldn't see it as that straight away.

    voluntary cooperation isn't something I have an issue with. Pirates can do whatever they wanna do

    they just should have been required to keep the risk/reward formula built into the game.

    Let them alliance the whole server I don't really care they just should have never had incentives, they always should of had to sacrifice wealth for perceived safety instead they got massively rewarded for safety. Incredibly flawed imo

    The lack of addressing this a long time ago wasn't an oversight it was a commitment to allowing it to happen. They could have easily got rid of the incentives long ago and let people just figure out the servers themselves within a risk/reward scenario

    It's something they like to some degree for whatever reason. Probably the content that comes out of some of the servers just for marketing/media purposes I dunno.

    It would have been such a simple fix prior to emissaries and all the expensive cosmetics and extra events. Just kill the incentives but it was a choice not to

    Addressing it now I'd say do it right or don't do anything at all. Commit to dumping the incentives completely or just let it go and letting it go for sure seems to be the decision

    If they were to do anything about it now it wouldn't be something that would change the environment too much as it went on too long it would entirely be an accountability thing.
    It would be a "we had good intentions here but it went too far and had effects that we don't think align with our messaging or intended environment so we are gonna go ahead and address these incentives now" but if that's not how they feel they aren't obligated to do that.

  • Should be.

  • Technically it’s capped at 6.

    Alright I’ll see myself out.

  • Probably because it's really not a huge issue. The devs have said they're fine with how players utilize the alliance system tool, but will monitor it.

    As someone whose played since day one, and loves his share of PvP, I'm not in the slightest concerned with what players in an entirely different lobby than me are doing.

  • @valor-omega said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    Probably because it's really not a huge issue. The devs have said they're fine with how players utilize the alliance system tool, but will monitor it.

    As someone whose played since day one, and loves his share of PvP, I'm not in the slightest concerned with what players in an entirely different lobby than me are doing.

    the "we are monitoring it" thing is not one of substance as there is nothing that can be done about the coordination or cooperation part of server alliances that wouldn't flat out break the game. They would have to hit server hopping hard and put in restrictions that would be bad for everyone and terrible for the game. They might be monitoring it but the only option for actually doing anything about it is the nuclear option and that benefits nobody. Even with the restrictions it would only make small time operations struggle it's still not going to do anything to the operations with the numbers to get past all the restrictions.

    the coordination and cooperation part of the discussion are an unnecessary distraction. people should be able to lock down servers on their own time no different than people can hop and pvp servers into oblivion on their own time

    the issue has always been and will always be the incentives. The wildly unbalanced and massively profitable and unearned incentives that contradict the spirit of the game by increasing the reward and decreasing the risk.

    By removing the incentives it reinstates more risk into these servers as now there is loot that isn't just magically throwing everyone bonus gold. Now the greed can fester and boil over.

    To me it's just flat out bizarre that the incentives have been left alone over all this time. This is such an easy fix and would not even get rid of people's ability to cooperate and coordinate. There is some odd loyalty to the cheese aspect that has never and probably will never make sense to me

  • I see a whole lot of "whaaaaa people are profiting from a different playstyle than me" in here.

    Would you rather an ACTUAL PvE server? Other than the ones that make people post a "pve plz" thread (I don't like those guys and should be investigated imo) this keeps a few of those posts from showing up. It also gives an alternative to PvE mode that everyone hates lol.

    If you don't like server Alliances, server hop until you find one and wreck it.

  • @wolfmanbush said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @valor-omega said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    Probably because it's really not a huge issue. The devs have said they're fine with how players utilize the alliance system tool, but will monitor it.

    As someone whose played since day one, and loves his share of PvP, I'm not in the slightest concerned with what players in an entirely different lobby than me are doing.

    the "we are monitoring it" thing is not one of substance as there is nothing that can be done about the coordination or cooperation part of server alliances that wouldn't flat out break the game. They would have to hit server hopping hard and put in restrictions that would be bad for everyone and terrible for the game. They might be monitoring it but the only option for actually doing anything about it is the nuclear option and that benefits nobody. Even with the restrictions it would only make small time operations struggle it's still not going to do anything to the operations with the numbers to get past all the restrictions.

    Just have a time-out for changing servers. Should make it very hard or lucky to get several ships on the same server. Have it long enough to be a nuisance for PvE server creation and short enough so people who want to escape toxic crews possible.

    the coordination and cooperation part of the discussion are an unnecessary distraction. people should be able to lock down servers on their own time no different than people can hop and pvp servers into oblivion on their own time

    I am not in favour of those who hop for PvP either, but they can use the portals nowadays, so that argument is out the window.

    the issue has always been and will always be the incentives. The wildly unbalanced and massively profitable and unearned incentives that contradict the spirit of the game by increasing the reward and decreasing the risk.

    By removing the incentives it reinstates more risk into these servers as now there is loot that isn't just magically throwing everyone bonus gold. Now the greed can fester and boil over.

    There can be something done on the alliance pay-out, sure, but it still should be worthwhile to use it if you meet some other crews and don't feel hostile (yet … 😉).

    To me it's just flat out bizarre that the incentives have been left alone over all this time. This is such an easy fix and would not even get rid of people's ability to cooperate and coordinate. There is some odd loyalty to the cheese aspect that has never and probably will never make sense to me

    I don't get that either, they create achievements and don't bother one second about how some crews just bypass stuff to get them easy, making them worthless.

  • @pithyrumble said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    I see a whole lot of "whaaaaa people are profiting from a different playstyle than me" in here.

    Would you rather an ACTUAL PvE server? Other than the ones that make people post a "pve plz" thread (I don't like those guys and should be investigated imo) this keeps a few of those posts from showing up. It also gives an alternative to PvE mode that everyone hates lol.

    If you don't like server Alliances, server hop until you find one and wreck it.

    Not my style. I'm not interested in targeting or punishing individuals I'm interested in a healthier piratical environment where significance is valued so that newer pirates and pirates that don't have a lot of time to play will have the opportunity to participate in things that matter based on effort and difficulty and some form of standard for both. My view and offered solution doesn't even target individual's style of play it just addresses what I believe to be an imbalance and a harm to the stated goal of the game. I'm not against cooperation or coordination and do not want their ability to share a server taken away or others inconvenienced in an attempt to address the issue.

    The commodity crate thing was tinkered with and nerf'd multiple times because it was deemed too easy and too valuable. This is just addressing this topic in the same way.

    This position wasn't even my original position. Originally I was apathetic about it like others. Gold had very little significance, cosmetics were cheap, and there wasn't much to do.

    When emissaries came out and then more events and high value opportunities, and then expensive cosmetics came out it was clear to me my position needed to change with the changed environment.

    Keep in mind that Pirate Legend is glorified in this game by the devs. For a long time significance has been promoted and celebrated. The incentives within the alliance feature are not consistent with valuing significance and survival and achievement within the shared pve/pvp environment

  • It's fun to have a server wide alliance occasionally.

    The way to manage organised alliance servers abusing it to grind in total safety is to keep a ship slot open and allow Reaper ships to portal in.
    This could be a g5 Reaper mission where it selects an emissary on any server and then portals the mission reaper onto their server with a time limit to hunt them, after which they will warp back out of the server.

  • @wolfmanbush Simply put, I don't believe that they're worth worrying over. As someone who has been around since the beginning, and have earned my fair share of gold, commendations, cosmetics, etc, it doesn't seem like something that's worth worrying about.

    Who cares if people make tons of gold? It isn't as if there's an economy to the game, and there's less gold in regular servers. Gold always comes from people doing voyages, emergent threats, etc.

    As for cosmetics, there are a finite amount of them, and with the exception of the few that are rare/hard to get, the remainder of said cosmetics will be earned eventually by players, regardless of whether they play in an alliance server or not.

    So I ask, why does it even matter? If players will eventually be able to obtain most cosmetics, the only factor of clout or bragging rights comes from how fast a player obtains the gold necessary to purchase the cosmetic, or how quickly they unlock the commendation. At that point, and, again, who cares how fast players obtain certain cosmetics?

    It makes zero sense to worry about it, especially when you look at players who earn their cosmetics in the prescribed "normal" way versus in an alliance server. If someone has worked for their cosmetics and are proud of their own work, that already puts them ahead of someone who earned the same cosmetic in a different way, by those same standards.

    As the devs have said, it's not about the destination, but rather about the journey. If players want to cheese their way to whatever cosmetics they want, I feel like they should be allowed to do so, as that's the truest nature of a sandbox game; player agency. There's no wrong way (bar actual toxicity) to play the game, and I personally don't think the devs need to waste time fixing alliance servers, when there are a plethora of things they could and should be putting dev time into.

    Just my two cents.

  • @valor-omega said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @wolfmanbush Simply put, I don't believe that they're worth worrying over. As someone who has been around since the beginning, and have earned my fair share of gold, commendations, cosmetics, etc, it doesn't seem like something that's worth worrying about.

    Who cares if people make tons of gold? It isn't as if there's an economy to the game, and there's less gold in regular servers. Gold always comes from people doing voyages, emergent threats, etc.

    As for cosmetics, there are a finite amount of them, and with the exception of the few that are rare/hard to get, the remainder of said cosmetics will be earned eventually by players, regardless of whether they play in an alliance server or not.

    So I ask, why does it even matter? If players will eventually be able to obtain most cosmetics, the only factor of clout or bragging rights comes from how fast a player obtains the gold necessary to purchase the cosmetic, or how quickly they unlock the commendation. At that point, and, again, who cares how fast players obtain certain cosmetics?

    It makes zero sense to worry about it, especially when you look at players who earn their cosmetics in the prescribed "normal" way versus in an alliance server. If someone has worked for their cosmetics and are proud of their own work, that already puts them ahead of someone who earned the same cosmetic in a different way, by those same standards.

    As the devs have said, it's not about the destination, but rather about the journey. If players want to cheese their way to whatever cosmetics they want, I feel like they should be allowed to do so, as that's the truest nature of a sandbox game; player agency. There's no wrong way (bar actual toxicity) to play the game, and I personally don't think the devs need to waste time fixing alliance servers, when there are a plethora of things they could and should be putting dev time into.

    Just my two cents.

    Opinions differ but yours is certainly a reasonable take. I appreciate the response

  • @jumli7
    Thankfully, if alliance server players who have never experienced the real game decide to come to the real servers to show their "clout," I have no problem showing them what a real pirate looks like.
    I bought the full Dark Adventurer set (except for things I won't use, like the dress) and that means something to me. Sure it's nice when randoms call me "the Dark Adventurer guy" but I didn't do it for admiration.
    Sure, I don't like how all the danger I had to be in to get loot to buy the DA set is erased in Alliance servers, and it is easier for a would-be Dark Adventurer if they were in Alliance servers. But they didn't get to experience the journey like me!
    Gold is definitely devalued a lot more by Alliance servers, though. I don't think it's right to take PvP out of the process, and therefore there should be something to deter this behavior. Even if there was an alliance cap, Alliance servers would still exist because some players would join just to be a part of a real PvE server.

    Would you rather an ACTUAL PvE server? Other than the ones that make people post a "pve plz" thread (I don't like those guys and should be investigated imo) this keeps a few of those posts from showing up. It also gives an alternative to PvE mode that everyone hates lol.

    An actual PvE server isn't happening, right, so I don't care how many "pve plz" threads there are, I'd rather there be no alliance servers. It's not like if alliance servers were patched Rare would be honor-bound to make PvE servers.
    No one needs an alternative to a PvE mode.

  • @wolfmanbush Certainly! I'm happy we could discuss it, and hear the other's ideas.

    It's certainly refreshing to discourse without having hostile responses, to be sure :)

  • @valor-omega said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @wolfmanbush Certainly! I'm happy we could discuss it, and hear the other's ideas.

    It's certainly refreshing to discourse without having hostile responses, to be sure :)

    My goal isn't to be combative or personal when criticizing this particular feature I just want to lay out detailed and specific issues to hopefully give people something to consider maybe not just now but down the road.

    I acknowledge my view of the effects of the feature are subjective and are not based in hard data it's just a feeling like the opinions of others on the topic.

    It's not a battle I think I can win as I think the outcome has long been decided but I do find value in supporting standards for significance within the shared environment from time to time.

  • Avid PVP player here begging people to stop complaining about alliance servers there are like 20 posts about this per week and are all along the same lines of "Rare get rid of alliance server"

    How about instead let this game be where Rare provides the sandbox and the players can make their own rules and lets not limit how players want to play the game. People making alliance server has no effect on how you play the game. All this change does is limit how others can play the game.

    Idk about you but playing in an alliance in the regular game is never safe and merry. I always betray or have been betrayed by my alliance. Everyone wants the chest of legends and the big pieces of loot alliance or not.

    Let everyone enjoy the game as they wish don't ruin TDM in arena don't ruin alliances in adventure.

  • I just don't really care enough about it. Personally, the idea is mind numbingly boring, but if people can actually manage to organise an alliance server, I don't particularly care if they speed through the game progression. There's no real reward for doing so beyond commendations and cosmetics, I suppose. Not a big deal.

    If I were to bump into one, I'd just use it as an opportunity for a lot of PvP. I don't really see a need to fix it because it's not really commonplace.

  • @nitroxien said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    Avid PVP player here begging people to stop complaining about alliance servers there are like 20 posts about this per week and are all along the same lines of "Rare get rid of alliance server"

    How about instead let this game be where Rare provides the sandbox and the players can make their own rules and lets not limit how players want to play the game. People making alliance server has no effect on how you play the game. All this change does is limit how others can play the game.

    Idk about you but playing in an alliance in the regular game is never safe and merry. I always betray or have been betrayed by my alliance. Everyone wants the chest of legends and the big pieces of loot alliance or not.

    Let everyone enjoy the game as they wish don't ruin TDM in arena don't ruin alliances in adventure.

    And what about those like myself that only want the incentive addressed and do not want anything else addressed?

    For people to be for the incentives with a "let people play how they want to play" opinion is no different than when commodities were nerf'd because making 20k a crate and millions in a short amount of time was ridiculously unbalanced compared to anything else within the environment surrounding loot. People didn't oppose the nerf because it didn't allow them to be merchants they opposed it because they wanted to cheese out of their minds and there is no peg leg to stand on when it comes to supporting that cheese with a "let people play how they want" view

    People either want the cheese or are apathetic about the cheesing by others but nobody is entitled to it. It's not a matter of letting others play how they want it's a matter of does the reward line up with the risk and amount of time it takes compared to the surrounding environment and it just flat out doesn't.

    At least the commodity crate stuff also existed within the pve/pvp environment and that was still nerf'd (multiple times) but a massive reward that only grows the safer the server gets has never been addressed or nerf'd to more appropriately fit the intended environment? Makes no sense for the health of the intended shared pve/pvp environment

  • @loaf-cat1384

    There's no real reward for doing so beyond commendations and cosmetics, I suppose.

    Yeah, the only "progression" is commendations and cosmetics. And they're both getting exploited, but Rare decided to do nothing about it, so here we are.
    It makes the commendations, titles and cosmetics useless and worthless, and if the whole games "progression" is around those three, there's nothing left in the game.
    (except an empty free roam with other players, which how it was from the beginning)

    That is why I made the post, why did they do this and not do anything about it? I mean, it's their own game obviously, but they made hundreds of commendations/achievements for no reason. It's just a simple question we can never get an answer to.
    (oh, and alliance servers are very common & not difficult to make)

  • there's nothing left in the game.

    I mean, this has been the case for ages. There's always only been commendations. If your sole reason to play the game is commendations then yeah I can understand it. But then I'd really ask why you bother with the game if that's the only enjoyment you get from it.

    That is why I made the post, why did they do this and not do anything about it?

    They probably don't really see the issue with it. The game is a very social game and if people manage to coordinate and organise that, then Rare is okay with it, provided there's no cheating or bug exploitation occurring.

    oh, and alliance servers are very common & not difficult to make

    They're really not unless you're actively on Discord or Reddit trying to form and join one.

  • @wolfmanbush It seems then you do not enjoy this game for the gameplay and mainly care to have commendations to rub in the face of other players.

    Your comparison is comparing a clear exploit and glitch in the system compared to alliance servers which have been approved by Rare (they literally promote in their discord server an alliance server). If players want to work together to achieve commendations let them its not like any of the commendations in adventure take any skill to get just lucky on the ship you happen to run into that is worst than you and with the stuff you need most of the time. Most of my Athena steals have been pure RNG having fun in the game and happening to sink a ship or counter a ship at an outpost with one.

    If you really care for commendations to show your skill go get the arena ones.

    Your complaining that because other players are having fun and doing the commendations their way by working together it is ruining the game for you since you no longer feel special for having them.

    Just play the game for the game this is not a competitive game never has been never will be. There are tonnes of games out there if you want to show your skill in a game (League, Dota 2, CS GO...) SoT is and forever will be a fun casual friendly game where we are encourage to interact and have fun with other crews.

  • @jumli7 Your complaining because you don't feel special having the commendations anymore in a non competitive game. Most of the time the commendations you get are just lucky most of my Athena steals have been pure luck finding ships who had one or stealing from the outpost.

    SoT is not a competitive game, it has never been a competitive game, it will never be a competitive game. If players wish to get commendations by working together like Rare encourages players to do all the time let them. IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT Rare encourages players to work together constantly.

    No alliance servers are not common I have played for over 900 hours and have joined just a handful and they were a time of my life where we got to sink 3+ level 5 reapers stacking loot.

    If you want a game to prove yourself there are a tonne out there (CS GO, Dota 2, LoL, SC2...) This is not a game to prove your better than other players this is a game to enjoy with other players.

  • @nitroxien said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @wolfmanbush It seems then you do not enjoy this game for the gameplay and mainly care to have commendations to rub in the face of other players.

    Your comparison is comparing a clear exploit and glitch in the system compared to alliance servers which have been approved by Rare (they literally promote in their discord server an alliance server). If players want to work together to achieve commendations let them its not like any of the commendations in adventure take any skill to get just lucky on the ship you happen to run into that is worst than you and with the stuff you need most of the time. Most of my Athena steals have been pure RNG having fun in the game and happening to sink a ship or counter a ship at an outpost with one.

    If you really care for commendations to show your skill go get the arena ones.

    Your complaining that because other players are having fun and doing the commendations their way by working together it is ruining the game for you since you no longer feel special for having them.

    Just play the game for the game this is not a competitive game never has been never will be. There are tonnes of games out there if you want to show your skill in a game (League, Dota 2, CS GO...) SoT is and forever will be a fun casual friendly game where we are encourage to interact and have fun with other crews.

    All I've ever suggested going forward is the address the gold incentives and to (from this point forward) stop inconveniencing organic players with stolen and cooperative commendations

    I've never supported interfering with their ability to play together or their ability to cooperate with each other, ever

    You are not addressing my points you are intentionally ignoring them because like I said before people don't really have a peg leg to stand on for supporting the cheese they just want it or don't care which is fine but some do care about the health of the environment over personal gain or benefit.

    I don't have the achievement for buying supplies even though I have most of the achievements. why? because I don't support it and because I don't support it I'm willing to back that up by missing out on the achievement and have never bought supplies. Even the the achievement benefits me and the ability to buy supplies would SIGNIFICANTLY benefit me

    Becoming a captain on an alliance server would SIGNIFICANTLY benefit me. why? I love pve and bringing in large amounts of gold. I love fighting skelly ships and megs and sailing around without conflict and I would be able to do that easily and safely on a server alliance. I don't because I don't think it's healthy for the environment, even though it would benefit me.

    I wear a 5 dollar mini skirt and a 3 dollar hat and use a fishing title. This isn't about my commendations or cosmetics or titles specifically this is about the environment we all share and the balance within it going off the stated intent of the game.

    and I support check points for other people on tall tales even though I grinded alone before checkpoints when pve was a lot tougher and it holds a lot of significance for me and check points have made the gold curse a lot easier for others. I support that feature because I think it's better for the shared environment.

  • @nitroxien said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?): (also @valor-omega & @pithyrumble )

    How about instead let this game be where Rare provides the sandbox and the players can make their own rules and lets not limit how players want to play the game. People making alliance server has no effect on how you play the game. All this change does is limit how others can play the game.

    Video games must have rules to make them balanced and great. Video games that don't have rules, become unbalanced, broken or some cases unplayable.

    Do you know why there are specific number of players per ship? Galleon 4, Brigantine 3 and Sloop 2? Because of balance and rules.
    You think a Galleon with 16 players would be balanced and fitting for the game? The answer is no.
    And the question is; why would they forget to balance Alliances? (yet to be fixed)


    Why do you think Rare doesn't want to give us PvE only servers with progression allowed, Huh? Exactly. There HAS to be RULES.
    Makes the game unbalanced and commendations & everything becomes meaningless, which is not fun anymore if you actually think about it.
    Or why do you think they declined the idea of PvE only custom servers with progression?

    (Why would there even be commendations, achievements or any of those, if all of those can be bypassed? So it becomes optional progression, right? What even is that? Is that even a thing? It is in Sea of Thieves)

    But wait, Alliance servers MAINLY are PvE servers with progression then, right? And Alliance servers indeed have made the game unbalanced. Some might call it broken or "not fun" game because of this. Why wouldn't they gives us actual PvE servers then? Makes no sense, right?


    Could you tell me an another example, where "players make the rules" than this Alliance situation? A "tool" that have no restrictions.
    Because remember, they made "tools, not rules", right?
    Except everything actually has rules & they are in the games written code.

    Cheers! Happy sailing!

  • @jumli7 I'd be very curious to learn how exactly alliance servers negatively impact the game.

    As I've mentioned, there's no economy to the game, therefore the gold earned in an alliance server in no way takes away from gold that can be acrued in regular servers.

    Additionally, the only form of progression being cosmetics and commendations, all of which are barred behind time itself. Everyone will eventually unlock the available cosmetics; some faster or slower than others. So why does it matter? Their mantra for much of this game is "tools not rules" and the fact that it is also a sandbox game with player choice/agency being a key factor is something to consider as well.

    Let's talk about the emissary ledger. Many believe this to be the major negative point of alliance servers; people can just get tons of free emissary rep and cheese to the top. This isn't really true either. You only get emissary progress for what your crew turns in, and not other alliance members, like so many seem to believe. Now sure, if you're in an alliance server for hours, you'll surely rack up emissary value, but not nearly enough to get to the top. Not to mention there is absolutely no way to discern whether someone got their rank from dynamic play or in an alliance server.

    So to recap, Gold is always readily available, cosmetics and commendations will be earned gradually over time and everyone will eventually unlock everything. So again, what real and actual threat (that isn't thin veiled jealousy or entirely self-imposed issues) does alliance servers pose for the game?

    None.

    If players want to allow their hard work to be artificially devalued by how others choose to play the game, that's on them and no one else.

  • Much like how Rare knew how the Tunnels of the Damned would be used to server hop, they knew that people would be able to setup Alliance servers. Allowing players to basically make artificial PvE servers placates the majority of the PvE of the PvE vs PvP debate.

    If you don't like Alliance servers, don't purposefully play on one. Simple as that.

  • @valor-omega said in Alliance ship amount (why isn't it capped?):

    @jumli7 I'd be very curious to learn how exactly alliance servers negatively impact the game.

    As I've mentioned, there's no economy to the game, therefore the gold earned in an alliance server in no way takes away from gold that can be acrued in regular servers.

    Additionally, the only form of progression being cosmetics and commendations, all of which are barred behind time itself. Everyone will eventually unlock the available cosmetics; some faster or slower than others. So why does it matter? Their mantra for much of this game is "tools not rules" and the fact that it is also a sandbox game with player choice/agency being a key factor is something to consider as well.

    Let's talk about the emissary ledger. Many believe this to be the major negative point of alliance servers; people can just get tons of free emissary rep and cheese to the top. This isn't really true either. You only get emissary progress for what your crew turns in, and not other alliance members, like so many seem to believe. Now sure, if you're in an alliance server for hours, you'll surely rack up emissary value, but not nearly enough to get to the top. Not to mention there is absolutely no way to discern whether someone got their rank from dynamic play or in an alliance server.

    So to recap, Gold is always readily available, cosmetics and commendations will be earned gradually over time and everyone will eventually unlock everything. So again, what real and actual threat (that isn't thin veiled jealousy or entirely self-imposed issues) does alliance servers pose for the game?

    None.

    Your view on the significance doesn't change the fact the nerfing has been very inconsistent as has the messaging about the intent of the environment

    Significance has been glorified in the game by not just the community but also the devs it just hasn't been consistently addressed or maintained.

    Why did they nerf commodity crates?
    Why did they nerf emissaries after they came out?

    it's just gold and commendations, so why care? because significance and risk/reward balance has long been a big part of this game's foundation

    If nothing matters and paying server alliances with incentives to make safe servers is cool then I don't see why organic players out there grinding in a risky environment are the ones being nerf'd while incentives within a safe environment go untouched

  • @wolfmanbush I won't disagree there, honestly. I can't fathom the nerfs to the crates, either haha.

    I do think that the two aren't really mutually exclusive, though.

    One being nerfed isn't really grounds to nerf the other, imho.

    If anything, a decrease in gold earned could be applied, but I don't know how they could do that and only have it effect alliance servers.

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