Controversial: The PvE Ship

@wolfmanbush oh i forgot to mention that my idea would be to have no emergent enounters on this ship. Or make it so that it can outrun skelly ships till they go away. Megs wouldnt be a problem since its pretty easy to do already, and kraken is also something you can get away from, this would also make it easier because of being faster. As to your argument about pvpers idk, maybe some people would think its a fun thing to do initially but people like that will always exist and i dont see that being fun for them in the long run.

@mintharp184509 because the sloop doesnt really need a buff, unless youre talking about solo slooping, in which case that would only help solo players while this could be applied to any ship type for all types of crews.

@wolfmanbush said in Controversial: The PvE Ship:

at least this is more interesting than the usual pve thread.

The irony would be that pvpers would use the pve ship to just catch everyone else and rely on boarding and gun combat to take everyone out. It would create even more spawn camping

and have fun with no cannons against skelly ships and krakens.

Exactly what I thought too. Begin the catch, ram, everybody board and spawn camp til sunk meta!

@wolfmanbush @kommodoreyenser

Like i said it would be better if they could just outrun skellyships instead of not having them at all.

Im gonna disagree with both of you on the pvp side. It seems like you guys are under the assumption that every crew is terrible and pvpers would have an easy time sinking everyone by ramming them and spawnkilling till they sink which is not the case. And when their mastermind tactic fails more than it works they'll eventually get bored. There is also another good way to make pvpers not wanna do it. Not let those ships be reapers emissary which only makes sense.

@thebrakum

Not that I agree with your idea by any means (I really don't like it) but if they can't become reapers it would be only fair they can't put any other emissary flag up either. They are yin and yang you see?

I see where you're coming from and it's an interesting idea!

I see some problems that should be sorted out tho:

• without cannon, some pve activities are impossible (Ghost fleet, Flameheart) or insanely difficult (Skelly fleet).
• depending on its speed advantage, it would definitely be used a lot by pvp cqc crews which isn't the objective at all. That being said, it's not a bad thing to have more ship choices if they are balanced.
• the ship seems to be designed to avoid player interactions by running faster and not having to deal with other crews. That goes against the design proposition of the devs as they stated multiple times the last 3 years.

Overall I'm not convinced that the "PvE Ship" as described would meet your expectations, but it was still a nice idea and it was well presented.

Funny enough, I wonder if the way to go for a PvE ship wouldn't be to be: a bulky ship, with like 6 or 7 players, only one cannon at the back of the ship and slower than the other ships. Anyone could catch it and attack it, but with that many people on repairs and camping the ladders, it would be way easier to defend than to sink but wouldn't be able to attack anyone with eyes to see.

@wagstr said in Controversial: The PvE Ship:

@thebrakum

Not that I agree with your idea by any means (I really don't like it) but if they can't become reapers it would be only fair they can't put any other emissary flag up either. They are yin and yang you see?

I mean i dont know what the problem is. There would still be reapers on the server. Is it becomes they would make more gold? I dont really care, i prefer them to be emissary because im still gonna try and sink them. Now reapers just makes sense that they couldnt be gameplaywise since they have no offensive tools. And also lore wise it makes sense, the reapers wouldnt hire a ship that on paper has no capabilities to sink another ship. And its not like its unheard of right now to not be able to be an emissary. You cant be athena emissary if you dont meet certain requirements (PL). There would be one requirement too for reapers, thats it. Which is having a ship with canons on it.

@grog-minto said in Controversial: The PvE Ship:

I see where you're coming from and it's an interesting idea!

I see some problems that should be sorted out tho:

• without cannon, some pve activities are impossible (Ghost fleet, Flameheart) or insanely difficult (Skelly fleet).
• depending on its speed advantage, it would definitely be used a lot by pvp cqc crews which isn't the objective at all. That being said, it's not a bad thing to have more ship choices if they are balanced.
• the ship seems to be designed to avoid player interactions by running faster and not having to deal with other crews. That goes against the design proposition of the devs as they stated multiple times the last 3 years.

Overall I'm not convinced that the "PvE Ship" as described would meet your expectations, but it was still a nice idea and it was well presented.

Funny enough, I wonder if the way to go for a PvE ship wouldn't be to be: a bulky ship, with like 6 or 7 players, only one cannon at the back of the ship and slower than the other ships. Anyone could catch it and attack it, but with that many people on repairs and camping the ladders, it would be way easier to defend than to sink but wouldn't be able to attack anyone with eyes to see.

I understand that the idea isnt perfect but its not meant to be because there is no perfect solution. Its more a solution that i thought could be something that both pve and pvpers could be okay with. I dont think it would be too bad to have this ship where pveers could do their quests and tall tales and if they want to do flameheart or fleet they would have to bite the bullet and use a regular ship. I dont think it would be used a lot by pvpers because while it may work against some crews, i think that the majority is capable of defending themselves from a ship that has no cannons. I also suggested that they shouldnz be able to be reapers whivh makes sense, they wouldnt hire a ship that on paper has no capabilities of sinking other ships, that should make pvpers want to take the ship even less. The ship is designed to somewhat avoid player interaction, but unlike something like pve servers you're still able to be sunk, attacked and stolen from like everyone else so you have to be on your toes, and i think it could bring an interesting dynamic to pvp because you would have to approach those ships differently, like by swimming from nearby or rowboats etc, this already happens but to a way lesser extent and mostly in forts. Also even when you're on your ship if they rract too late an anchorball or chainshot could mean game over.

@thebrakum

Wolfmanbush has the rub of it, they are either not very good for PvE cos they can not take on hardly any PvE threats that give you loot or it's a sitting duck.

Reapers wouldn't exist without other emissaries and vice-versa. They go together hand in hand. You could still reap without firing a ship cannon shot as well, theres plenty of forts about with cannons and kegs. Get stocked up on kegs and you would see new meta's coming into play with these faster ships.. People need to be encouraged to learn to use the many tools provided that have been so carefully balanced. I PvP about as much as I want to PvP in any given session.

@thebrakum said in Controversial: The PvE Ship:

@wolfmanbush @kommodoreyenser
Im gonna disagree with both of you on the pvp side. It seems like you guys are under the assumption that every crew is terrible and pvpers would have an easy time sinking everyone by ramming them and spawnkilling till they sink which is not the case.

No what we are saying is this would be a great ship to catch runners. Runners, 99.99% of the time, ARE terrible at fighting which is why they run. If a crew is good at combat in this game, they will generally turn to engage and sink those who are trying to attack, buying them 5-10 minutes to finish what they were doing. The times they don't are because they are low on supplies (they aren't running as much as trying to resupply before engaging) or they realize there is a skill gap not in their favor.

The majority of my 3 years experience in this game have taught me two things:

One, the massive defenders advantage when it comes to combat. If you do not wish to fight, you can surely run and sell your loot in a variety of ways before the majority of crews can do anything about it. There is also the factor of turreting as most crews will just sail bow-first toward you and take 40 cannons to the face. There are also those who just red sea because they can't handle even the remote chance of losing to another player. There's many more examples but you get the point. The defender always has an arsenal of options. The attacker: try to stop/sink them and prevent them from selling/lowering flags.

Two, those who can't fight or lack the confidence to do so, will in fact run 100% of the time before you even get close if they see you headed their way. Regardless of that ship's intentions.