Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.

Let me explain. In scenario a) a team of players ( team a) go to do a world event. another team of players ( team b) are en route to steal. Seems fine on the face of it right? Well, actually, team b are at a much higher advantage than team a. Team a while playing the content, have to divert at least some of their attention to their surroundings, whereas team b do not. In essence, team a, for playing the pve content, are inherently at a disadvantage, simply for playing intended content. This rings true for any pve content. The conclusion is simple : every player is better off, not doing pve.

Team b also has to pay attention to their surroundings. If you’re in the middle of a Flameheart battle team b has to pay attention to you and Flameheart’s ships. They just don’t have much on the line.

You also have those kinds of players. The ones who will lie, cheat, abuse any system to get ahead. The ones who will spend hours ruining peoples game time, just for a laugh, betray alliances just cos ( not for the extra loot, which is fine ), and just be wholeheartedly awful people.

If they really did it just for laughs and they confessed that, you can clip and report them, but 99% it’s just for the extra loot and fun is just a bonus. Alliance betrayals are part of the game, after I was betrayed twice, I don’t trust alliance ships at all.

But every player here is a real person, and for every hard earned victory, someone else gets utter heartbreak.

Let me get this straight, you had a heartbreak from losing some loot. Don’t get so attached, just sell every 30 minutes or so then you won’t lose so much.

A simple system like say, a parrot that warns you if a ship is within a certain distance, would help. Not even miles off, just within 20 seconds or so, to give players a real chance. This goes to quell cases where someone sneaks around an island, and pve players have 0 opportunity to not be overwhelmed immediately. This is just a thought. I will also pre-emptively address ideas like "Just pay attention" or "just scuttle". Paying attention is not possible 100% of the time, nor is it reasonable to expect players to be psychic. Islands block view.

You can literally just scan the horizon and you’ll see any ships on the other side of the map. Even if islands are blocking the view, climbing up to the crows nest will let you see any ship

As for scuttling, if you scuttle, you've lost. Under no circumstances, should a pvp game have the lead mantra "just give up immediately".

Scuttling is a last resort is you’re being spawn camped.

Lastly but most importantly, the report system needs to be reviewed. It is so easy for players to get away with scummy behaviour, simply because the report system is hidden and out the way. Ingame reports are a necessity. Finding a players id, is a necessity. So far both of these aspects, are hidden away behind curtains, difficult to find.

Literally all you have to do is clip them and report them here. I don’t know about pc, but on Xbox you can go to the guide= people= recently played with.

@novaspire-007

Welcome to the PvEvP genre, where other players are a threat in the world like any other. It is part of the difficulty and especially your example of world events are a prime example of that fact.

You claim that you are not on equal footing and that is true, those that are at the event have way more control over the situation than those that attack. The power role in a lot of ways are the defenders.

• You have the stronger position and the ability to determine where the encounter happens or at all for that matter.
• You have the control of when the loot is made available.
• You eventually are in possession of said loot.

On top of that you claim that those out to steal loot are those out to ruin other peoples experience. While usually they are not out to ruin anything, they are simply trying to engage with the PvP element of the game and the thievery to gain treasure for themselves. The fact that in a multiplayer game you lose, doesn't mean they were trying to ruin your day. You claim to not care whether you are beaten in a fair match, what makes you believe it is not fair? You placed yourself in that position and made the choices you did. Most definitely you can pay attention, sometimes you will spot them from further away or closer... but you should with a bit of awareness have time to respond always; I did it solo, including world events.

PvE is the most lucrative way to earn things in the game. Even with the crew with which I go out and hunt Reaper 5 ships, FoF and FotDs with... when they want to go for the big bucks; it is time to stack the FotD. We turn to doing PvE and be the defenders! There will always be people to steal from, as the same people that steal for the majority also do the PvE.

"I honestly don't believe the game is that balanced. It highly favors better players. That to me isn't a balanced game."

^ this is an actual Tweet that exists in the real world. And to me, it applies 100% to the complaint here.

We are all playing both sides of the game at all times. Even if I go out and exclusively seek PVP, I will still have to deal with random emergent PVE encounters - i.e. megs, the kraken, skeleton boats, volcanoes, sharks, snakes, etc. I don't get the option to just turn that off because "I'm only here for PVP."

By the same token, there's no option to "turn off" the PVP, and the devs have made it clear they don't intend to offer one (unless they can find something that will compensate for the deletion of difficulty that removing PVP would entail). The game has been out for nearly 3 years and it's clear that the current state of affairs in Adventure is more-or-less their intended vision.

It's extremely challenging. This is probably the biggest problem for the game, the art style and marketing comes across as super casual, "Caribbean Vacation Sandbox", but in truth it can be very competitive and the opposite of chill. That's by design, and it's not an accident. Other players are intended to provide variable difficulty, and to be opponents (as well as potential allies).

This is the "Shared World Adventure Game" working as intended. The only unhealthy mentality is that of the PVE-seeking players whose incredible sense of entitlement makes them believe that the entire game must be reworked to cater to them.

So to answer some rebuttals here, and clarify things.

I meant to say team b only have to view their surroundings. They don't have to divert attention to pve content. This is not clear, and i apologise for this. Now for some rebuttals.

First, don't be that guy and assume my situation. I actually don't get my stuff ruined that often. That said, the third group of my friends i got interested quit, and its all for the same reasons, so i still stand by it should be raised.

"Scuttling isn't necessarily losing. If you're scuttling you've either given up, or you've lost." In both scenarios you've lost here.

"The conclusion is simple : every player is better off, not doing pve.

If this were true in any way, then no one would be doing PvE at all." Not true. If a new player has just started, they aren't going straight to pvp. They wouldn't know how to find players, or start. They'd go to pve. Especially if they don't know how much of an advantage pvp is to do. A dedicated pvp mode, also diverts some of that attention.

" climbing up to the crows nest will let you see any ship" Many big islands can block the view from the other side, even at the top. Thieves haven for instance. This is not true.

"You have the stronger position and the ability to determine where the encounter happens or at all for that matter.
You have the control of when the loot is made available.
You eventually are in possession of said loot."

1 is false, if someone wants to attack you they will. They are in control. You are reacting, by either fighting or running.
2 is true to a degree. You are in control of the loot spawning if you can kill something fast enough, however thats not an advantage. An attacker won't care if loot has spawned or not, if you are still alive.
3 is not guaranteed. I highly doubt those under attack have ever been able to a) finish content, b) load up the ship and c) leave, all while being attacked. This is only an advantage if the content is done, and even then, if you've already gotten away.

also. "you claim that those out to steal loot are those out to ruin other peoples experience". I did not claim that. I claimed that it promotes that behaviour. Which it does. Having pvp be in the game is fine. That's not the problem. If pvp has the advantage, you will get more players doing it, which will foster attitudes that enjoy ruining experiences. Thats not saying those out to steal loot are trying to ruin experiences.

Lastly to further clarify. A healthy game environment in pvpve is where both sides are equal in advantage. Currently it is skewed. I don't believe pvp is unhealthy, but I do believe it is too easy for negative people to thrive in this game, and something needs addressing. That being said, I've exhausted my thoughts now so I won't be replying anymore, but I will continue reading, as the responses have been interesting.

@d3adst1ck also a lot less cosmetics to earn if you’re only doing PvP.

Working towards cosmetics are my main source of fun and sense of accomplishment in the game. Other than just playing with friends.

@novaspire-007 sagte in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

The conclusion is simple : every player is better off, not doing pve.

This is not true, especially as we're having emissaries in this game.
Imagine, team B might waste hours over hours hiding and just waiting for someone to even come to the fort and progress halfway through it. By less than half of the time, they could've done it all themselves instead. Not to mention that their success isn't guaranteed either. But you know, streamers are the meta gods and so forth.
Same for crews who just straight up sail to your position and open combat against you.
Sure, team A might need to draw off their resources, means maybe one crew member, from combat strength to guard the ship instead but if that's what makes team b fail to sneak on the ship/approach with their own ship undetected and acheive their goal, team A still "won".

The problem is also that world events are a beacon for everyone to see.
Meanwhile, thanks to emissary boosts of all factions, you can make tons of money just for grinding some normal missions + emissary ones, which also helps newer players to increase their loot curve.
I mean where do tucklords and (bored) B teams want to go (serverhop)? Certainly not to some random island where you're doing your emissary missions.

@novaspire-007

"The conclusion is simple : every player is better off, not doing pve.
If this were true in any way, then no one would be doing PvE at all." Not true. If a new player has just started, they aren't going straight to pvp. They wouldn't know how to find players, or start. They'd go to pve. Especially if they don't know how much of an advantage pvp is to do. A dedicated pvp mode, also diverts some of that attention.

Hmmm... day one pirate here and does PvE. As I stated before you assume those that are doing PvP never PvE, while most people do both at times. We enjoy the full extent of the game, not just one side.

PvP is the more thrilling, action packed, difficult aspect of the game.
PvE is the more in game rewarding, chill and relax aspect of the game.

1 is false, if someone wants to attack you they will. They are in control. You are reacting, by either fighting or running.

You do have control of where the encounter happens, you are the one with the goods. If you move, they have to follow.

If you fight, then you choose your position and location, I do this all the time; when you are a solo on a sloop dealing with larger ships it helps having obstacles around. Picking your battleground to suit your needs can really help out.

If you flee, you avoid the combat and can simply drive by outposts and sell the loot bit by bit. This to is something I have done many many times, not a single shot is fired and yet I get to sell the loot.

2 is true to a degree. You are in control of the loot spawning if you can kill something fast enough, however thats not an advantage. An attacker won't care if loot has spawned or not, if you are still alive.

You are completely true that a pirate should not be to worried about the treasure if another crew is looming, but that goes both ways. One of the largest mistakes that people make when doing PvE is prioritizing the loot above the safety of their own ship.

Yet the whole aspect is based on timing, if you can judge whether or not you should complete the event and have the time to load the loot you care about or whether it might be smarter to plan for battle. If the event isn't near completion, even when you lose... the attackers now need to finish the event and haul the loot, giving you time to return for revenge.

The experienced crew I mentioned before that I tag along with at times, the captain even gets angry if I use phrases as: Close by, Far away... he tell me to give time estimations: from NOW to 30 seconds to 5 mins distance. He is the one that calls the shots when we play, he tells us to either halt progressing the event, to have someone swim out with a keg or finish it quickly and start hauling or just moving the items and sealing the vault again for another round... to extend the PvE barrier to give us more time incase we are defeated - yeah that is a thing.

3 is not guaranteed. I highly doubt those under attack have ever been able to a) finish content, b) load up the ship and c) leave, all while being attacked. This is only an advantage if the content is done, and even then, if you've already gotten away.

There are no guarantees in the game, you have a threat to deal with; how quick are you, how long did you take, if the loot isn't available yet that means you don't have to worry about the steal yet and can focus on the other crew. Additionally if they win or scare you off, they are now going to do PvE.

also. "you claim that those out to steal loot are those out to ruin other peoples experience". I did not claim that. I claimed that it promotes that behaviour. Which it does. Having pvp be in the game is fine. That's not the problem. If pvp has the advantage, you will get more players doing it, which will foster attitudes that enjoy ruining experiences. Thats not saying those out to steal loot are trying to ruin experiences.

To claim it is about ruining other peoples experience, is simply false. It is painting those that engage in PvP in a bad light and acting like they are actively seeking the misery of others instead of the joys of playing PvP.

Lastly to further clarify. A healthy game environment in pvpve is where both sides are equal in advantage. Currently it is skewed. I don't believe pvp is unhealthy, but I do believe it is too easy for negative people to thrive in this game, and something needs addressing. That being said, I've exhausted my thoughts now so I won't be replying anymore, but I will continue reading, as the responses have been interesting.

Have you actually went out and did PvP? The advantage is with those on the defending side; those that are doing PvE. It doesn't mean you can avoid PvP completely.

Negative people to thrive, once again trying to depict and act like all PvP is negative. This is a PvEvP game, you are supposed to engage in PvE and PvP simultaneously.

Don't get me wrong, there are people that are negative in the game. We have bad sports on both the PvE and PvP end of this game and they have tactics available to them - yes the PvE players have them as well. Yet to classify all PvP as ruining peoples experience or being negative... is simply a false narrative.

Gold and rep gain average per hour for PvE is exponentially more than the same from PvP. That is just a fact witnessed by anyone who has played this game long enough.

The only way to improve PvP gold/hour is to hop and target Reaper 5 ships and/or hunt active FoF/FotD servers. Anything short of this is a shot in the dark hunt around the server for 15-20 minutes at least. This is why you always see popular streamers looking for ships at world events or for Reaper 5s.

@kommodoreyenser said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

This is why you always see popular streamers looking for ships at world events or for Reaper 5s.

Streamers are looking for exciting content. Unless they are one of the handful of Reapers crews competing for first place on the leaderboard, they almost certainly don't care about either the gold or rep per hour. FotD, FoF and Reaper Vs are premier content, this is why they're targeted.

@dyfrin said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

"A player mentality.. "

I think this would be a great psych study on if playing a game with such a opportunistic theft scenario would develop in the player an inclination, that in real life, they start looking for the same?

So... does playing football or basketball make you a thief in real life? What about chess?

In all of those games, you take something that isn't yours for your own gain.

This armchair psychoanalysis of PVP players is so played out. It's a game, with rules and expectations different and unique from "the real world." This is part of what makes it entertaining.

Just leave it at that.

@danquememe said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

@kommodoreyenser said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

This is why you always see popular streamers looking for ships at world events or for Reaper 5s.

Streamers are looking for exciting content. Unless they are one of the handful of Reapers crews competing for first place on the leaderboard, they almost certainly don't care about either the gold or rep per hour. FotD, FoF and Reaper Vs are premier content, this is why they're targeted.

I have played both with and against people who hop to target these events/emissary ships specifically. They are not streamers, and the hauls are usually decent and gotten quickly vs just playing normally.

Not saying you are wrong but it’s only half the story.

@kommodoreyenser said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

Not saying you are wrong but it’s only half the story.

Sure, and I wasn't disagreeing with your statement about the earning potential of hunting Reaper V, FotD or FoF. Only your stated implication that streamers pursue these for the goal of earning gold/rep.

Most streamers need neither, and are instead chasing compelling content. The gold/rep at stake is part of what makes the content entertaining, sure. But earning same is not important for most streamers, who already have all the gold/rep/commendations/etc that they could ever want.

@vareg1986 said in Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy.:

@kennyb2100
nothing can be done about it, unfortunately. Those who defend PVP and the "spirit of the game" are either toxic schoolchildren, or those who have long since closed most of the activities in the game and are simply bored. So they attack anyone they see, like a pack of stray rats.
I have 70 game achievements left and I hope that I will quit this game. since the players here are inadequate to the point of impossibility.

Many are/could be working on Reaper's like myself. I am at 72.5. Rare decided to 1/4 the rep gain of regular loot (fair) and half the gain of stolen regular loot (nonsense considering the whole faction is based on sinking and stealing from others) The only thing that earns rep anymore at higher levels is Reaper items, stolen athena loot, and flags.

If I sink an emissary other than a Reaper or Athena, I am only grabbing the flag and maybe high tier event loot. Stolen regular chests or skulls don't even really move the rep meter one pixel on the way to 73, whereas just one grade 3 merchant flag gave me 1/8 of a level at Reaper grade 1. As a primarily solo player, I will not risk it wasting time grabbing loot that will not move me toward my goal in the end and possibly caught up in a second battle.

@novaspire-007 when doing PvE every so often check the horizon, a ship on its way takes priority over the PvE event, I've sunk many ships while doing whatever PvE. Also many players are at a point,like myself, where loot has no value anymore, PvE is very repetitive, so the only thing left is to fight ships for me anyway because it's the only not completely predictable thing left to do, for me anyway

@vareg1986 a dit dans Sea of thieves is cultivating a player mentality that isn't healthy. :

@katttruewalker Your right to think so. you probably do not play this game at all, since you do not see how pvp players simply destroy the desire to play for those who came here for an adventure, and not for "hunting noobs (c)"
I will not argue with you, everyone has their own truth.

Players that came to this game to either do only pve or pvp have made a poor purchase imo. There is no such thing as pure pvp or pve in SoT.
You're out there doing a pve event and someone comes to attack you, that's to be expected, not feared. It's part of the adventure. Pirates are the main threat on the sea.
You're attacking another players' ship and suddenly a meg and/or a skeleton ship and/or a keg in a flotsam hits you, that should not be a source of frustration or anger. It's part of the adventure. The sea is not fair, SoT isn't a competitive pvp game.

Most of the players I know that came to those shores wanting to play with only one aspect of the game stopped playing. Some pve'er went to alliance servers and that prolonged their experience a bit but ultimately not that much. From that, I take that the game doesn't have the ability to sustain hundreds of hours of play on PvP or PvE alone.